How To Tell If Timing Belt Has Been Replaced Recently?

Merry Prankster

Hey everyone,

I've been helping a friend to find a car recently and we've just found one that he likes. The seller of the car claims that the timing belt and water pump have both been replaced recently, but has no receipts because his friend did the work. Is there any way for someone with little knowledge of cars to tell if this work has actually been done?

Cheers.

IK09

in most cases it has been written in tippex on the cover, along ith the miles it was done at e.g 78k t/b

JustAddWater

It could have been written by anyone though!

IK09

IK09 wrote: »

in most cases it has been written in tippex on the cover, along ith the miles it was done at e.g 78k t/b

A method open to abuse to pull the wool.

IK09

JustAddWater wrote: »

It could have been written by anyone though!

ya true. if you look at the belt itself you should be able to tell if it has been changed recently, it will still be somewhat clean if it has

racso1975

Yeah I came across that recently was looking at a car and had tipex on engine cover( brand new cover with fresh tipex) with belt replaced at 89k and 92k on clock. However seller had forgot to remove service interval reminder sticker from inside of door that said next service due at 176k :eek:

Only way to tell for certain is if the receipts are included and you can ring the garage to verify it

Where To

I always think it's safer to err on the side of caution to be honest, if you're not sure get it done yourself.

Merry Prankster

racso1975 wrote: »

Only way to tell for certain is if the receipts are included and you can ring the garage to verify it

Seller states that he has no receipts and that the replacements were done by a friend. It's certainly plausible, but as I've never met the guy I don't want to rely on his word alone.

Avns1s

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Seller states that he has no receipts and that the replacements were done by a friend. It's certainly plausible, but as I've never met the guy I don't want to rely on his word alone.

No receipt for even the purchase of the belt and perhaps tensioner + water pump in a motor factors for a relatively critical bit of work ??? Hmmmmmmmmm!! :rolleyes:

OP Factor in that you have to do the timing belt and pump on this car. If it's still attractive, buy it. If not, move to the next one.

nct tester

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Seller states that he has no receipts and that the replacements were done by a friend. It's certainly plausible, but as I've never met the guy I don't want to rely on his word alone.

car?? make?? model?? year??

nct tester

racso1975 wrote: »

Yeah I came across that recently was looking at a car and had tipex on engine cover( brand new cover with fresh tipex) with belt replaced at 89k and 92k on clock. However seller had forgot to remove service interval reminder sticker from inside of door that said next service due at 176k :eek:

Only way to tell for certain is if the receipts are included and you can ring the garage to verify it

belt may have been done but the car was clocked.

keithclancy

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Seller states that he has no receipts and that the replacements were done by a friend. It's certainly plausible, but as I've never met the guy I don't want to rely on his word alone.

Fock that ..

Merry Prankster

Avns1s wrote: »

No receipt for even the purchase of the belt and perhaps tensioner + water pump in a motor factors for a relatively critical bit of work ??? Hmmmmmmmmm!! :rolleyes:

OP Factor in that you have to do the timing belt and pump on this car. If it's still attractive, buy it. If not, move to the next one.

nct tester wrote: »

car?? make?? model?? year??

Personally, I'd be inclined to keep receipts for that kind of stuff myself, but I realise that not everyone would be as fastidious.

I don't know much about cars so I'll let you guys decide if it's a good deal. It's a 1999 1.0 VW Lupo, 117k, looks in pretty good nick.

nct tester

should be easy enough to pop the cover off it and have a look, presuming you are bringing a qualified mechanic with you to check it out. The differnce between a recently changed one and one that needs doing will be in the region of 250 to 300 euro of a saving.

racso1975

nct tester wrote: »

belt may have been done but the car was clocked.

Maybe.....given the car had one owner I was not inclined to believe a word out of his mouth!!!!

Merry Prankster

nct tester wrote: »

should be easy enough to pop the cover off it and have a look, presuming you are bringing a qualified mechanic with you to check it out. The differnce between a recently changed one and one that needs doing will be in the region of 250 to 300 euro of a saving.

That's the thing, I won't be bringing a mechanic. Would a layman like myself be able to verify the claim or would it be foolhardy to try? I'd like to believe that everything is above board but the lack of receipts gets me twitching a little.

skeg16

Side note guys...how much would it cost to change timing belt on a 06 vw passat...estimate??

nct tester

safer to get a mechanic if you are not sure what you're doing. he could save you from buying a dud.

nct tester

skeg16 wrote: »

Side note guys...how much would it cost to change timing belt on a 06 vw passat...estimate??

350

firefly08

IK09 wrote: »

ya true. if you look at the belt itself you should be able to tell if it has been changed recently, it will still be somewhat clean if it has

nct tester wrote: »

should be easy enough to pop the cover off it and have a look, presuming you are bringing a qualified mechanic with you to check it out. The differnce between a recently changed one and one that needs doing will be in the region of 250 to 300 euro of a saving.

I'm not a pro and haven't changed that many timing belts, but I have done a few, and I have never seen one that didn't look new!. I really don't think you can rely on a visual check. Sure, if the belt looks bad, it's bad - but if it looks ok, that doesn't mean it's really ok. It could be about to strip some teeth - you can't really inspect the teeth without taking the belt off. Not to mention, the water pump could seize or the plastic pulley(s) could break. I don't see how you're going to know just by looking. That's why most people regard documentation as being so important for this stuff.

OP I would say if you doubt the guy's word, and he doesn't have receipts, walk away, or negotiate a price that allows you to have the belt & pump done as a precaution. There are plenty of cars for sale out there!

Rhys Essien

skeg16 wrote: »

Side note guys...how much would it cost to change timing belt on a 06 vw passat...estimate??

300/350.

Visual check of timing belt condition is next to useless.

nct tester

firefly08 wrote: »

I'm not a pro and haven't changed that many timing belts, but I have done a few, and I have never seen one that didn't look new!. I really don't think you can rely on a visual check. Sure, if the belt looks bad, it's bad - but if it looks ok, that doesn't mean it's really ok. It could be about to strip some teeth - you can't really inspect the teeth without taking the belt off. Not to mention, the water pump could seize or the plastic pulley(s) could break. I don't see how you're going to know just by looking. That's why most people regard documentation as being so important for this stuff.

OP I would say if you doubt the guy's word, and he doesn't have receipts, walk away, or negotiate a price that allows you to have the belt & pump done as a precaution. There are plenty of cars for sale out there!

so in that case you should strip the timing belt cover off completely and do a thorough check on the belt and its components before you take his word for it or just a visual check??

Merry Prankster

firefly08 wrote: »

I'm not a pro and haven't changed that many timing belts, but I have done a few, and I have never seen one that didn't look new! I really don't think you can rely on a visual check.

OP I would say if you doubt the guy's word, and he doesn't have receipts, walk away, or negotiate a price that allows you to have the belt & pump done as a precaution. There are plenty of cars for sale out there!

So even if I can get a mechanic to come along, there's still no way to confidently establish that the work has been done? It's not that I doubt his word, just that I don't know him and he doesn't have receipts so there's an obvious risk that has to be considered. How much would it cost to get the work done myself?

Merry Prankster

RoverJames wrote: »

Visual check of timing belt condition is next to useless.

Would you consider the lack of receipts to be a dealbreaker? Would you personally buy the car?!

bazz26

€900 for a 14 year old Lupo! :eek: My sister sold her 2000 reg Lupo for that 2 years ago.

Best to replace the t/b yourself for piece of mind, depending on the car it isn't a total disaster if the the t/b fails. I know some of the older toyota engines are non-interference engines means that the pistons won't bend the valves in the case of timing belt failure. I also wouldn't let the lack of receipts put me off buying a car.

skeg16

nct tester wrote: »

350

thats a fair bit....how much would you be talking if the timing belt went of the car and you had to get a new 1???

shawnee

RoverJames wrote: »

Visual check of timing belt condition is next to useless.

Correct ! almost impossible to tell from looking at the belt, unless it was changed that day and even then it would be difficult. Receipts.:cool:

skeg16

skeg16 wrote: »

thats a fair bit....how much would you be talking if the timing belt went of the car and you had to get a new 1???

Depends if the pistons bend the valves, you could end up having to replace the head.

megafan

tolow wrote: »

Depends if the pistons bend the valves, you could end up having to replace the head.

Or worse not worth the risk leaving it!!

firefly08

nct tester wrote: »

so in that case you should strip the timing belt cover off completely and do a thorough check on the belt and its components before you take his word for it or just a visual check??

Well if you were going to pull the belt for that then you might as well put a new one in anyway No harm in having a quick look - if it looks bad then that removes any doubt - but if it looks good, I think you need to either decide to take the guys word for it or assume it needs to be changed. Just my 2 cents. I do often hear of professional mechanics looking at belts and telling people they're ok...I'm sure they know a lot of things I don't but I am still wary of it.

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Would you consider the lack of receipts to be a dealbreaker? Would you personally buy the car?!

Well this is where you have to take a step back and consider what's so important about this car? I would value a car that needs a 300 euro timing belt job at about 300 euros less than one that doesn't So you just need to factor that in. If the seller is insisting that this car is worth the extra 300 euro because it had a recent t/belt, the onus is on him to prove it. I have bought cars from people who's word I would trust on this - but there was no doubt in my mind. If there is - then either he proves it (paperwork), or the price has to reflect the situation. Failing that, I'd walk away. There's a better deal out there.

biko

Tbh, without a receipt there is no way one can know for sure.
Up to your friend if they want to chance it.

However, if it breaks you'll get blamed...
I'd keep looking.

JohnBoy26

tolow wrote: »

Best to replace the t/b yourself for piece of mind, depending on the car it isn't a total disaster if the the t/b fails. I know some of the older toyota engines are non-interference engines means that the pistons won't bend the valves in the case of timing belt failure. I also wouldn't let the lack of receipts put me off buying a car.

They must be very old Toyota engines. The 4e-fe and the older 12 valve units before them are all interference engines.

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

They must be very old Toyota engines. The 4e-fe and the older 12 valve units before them are all interference engines.

4efe is not an interference engine I know this for a fact. A mate of mine glanza timing belt snapped a while back and no damage.

randy hickey

OP,you could broaden your mate's search parameters by letting him know that the Lupo shares the same platform as the Seat Arosa.
Just for example;

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4341506


On the topic of the TB, even at that price range, unless I personally knew the seller, I would just assume the TB needed changing.The cost of changing it is quite a bit cheaper than dealing with bent con rods etc. etc. if it snaps. (I'm assuming it's an interference engine.)

Don't forget;
Tippex records can be forged.
Receipts can be forged.
Seller's word can be....

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

They must be very old Toyota engines. The 4e-fe and the older 12 valve units before them are all interference engines.

The 3SGE is non interference
Iirc they were sold long after the 12v pre 4efe yokes.

JohnBoy26

tolow wrote: »

4efe is not an interference engine I know this for a fact. A mate of mine glanza timing belt snapped a while back and no damage.

They are an interference engine. At low revs it might not do any damage but at higher revs I can assure you damage will be done.

JohnBoy26

RoverJames wrote: »

The 3SGE is non interference
Iirc they were sold long after the 12v pre 4efe yokes.

Some version of the 3GSE are interference engines ;-)

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

They are an interference engine. At low revs it might not do any damage but at higher revs I can assure you damage will be done.

I know of plenty of lads with glanzas who it has happened to. Have a quick look online and you will find PLENTY of info saying they are non-interference.

JohnBoy26

tolow wrote: »

I know of plenty of lads with glanzas who it has happened to. Have a quick look online and you will find PLENTY of info saying they are non-interference.

Just had a look at Autodata, even they have them down as interference engines.

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Just had a look at Autodata, even they have them down as interference engines.

Which 3sge is ?

Henry Ford III

If there's no receipts for t/b and water pump you can't trust the parts, and should be looking to get money off as you'll have to replace them.

JohnBoy26

RoverJames wrote: »

Which 3sge is ?

Some 3sge Beams versions. I think most aren't though so your correct

Merch

randy hickey wrote: »

On the topic of the TB, even at that price range, unless I personally knew the seller, I would just assume the TB needed changing.The cost of changing it is quite a bit cheaper than dealing with bent con rods etc. etc. if it snaps. (I'm assuming it's an interference engine.)

Don't forget;
Tippex records can be forged.
Receipts can be forged.
Seller's word can be....

I'd be suspect of some people I know too, worked with a guy who tried to sell me car, I wasnt really interested but if I didnt have transport, I could have been. He says the car is very good condition, Within a month he told me, the guy that bought it off him came back and complained that there was a fault, he said he told the guy to fock off, he then said, thing is, I knew about that, cnut forgot he tried to sell me the car.

When buying a car, dont trust any seller, its better to move on to something that has less doubt hanging over it. Personally I got my timing belt done at a main dealer as at the time, I had come across a few horror stories of bad follow up after a belt slipped a few teeth and another belt problem from non main dealers, normally I wouldn't listen to this, but one person that happened to, I knew well enough. I knew an indy guy that wouldnt do timing belts.

JohnBoy26

Merch wrote: »

I'd be suspect of some people I know too, worked with a guy who tried to sell me car, I wasnt really interested but if I didnt have transport, I could have been. He says the car is very good condition, Within a month he told me, the guy that bought it off him came back and complained that there was a fault, he said he told the guy to fock off, he then said, thing is, I knew about that, cnut forgot he tried to sell me the car.

When buying a car, dont trust any seller, its better to move on to something that has less doubt hanging over it. Personally I got my timing belt done at a main dealer as at the time, I had come across a few horror stories of bad follow up after a belt slipped a few teeth and another belt problem from non main dealers, normally I wouldn't listen to this, but one person that happened to, I knew well enough. I knew an indy guy that wouldnt do timing belts.

Any decent indy will replace a timing belt to main dealer standards. The Indy you knew that wouldn't do timing belts must not be a real mechanic tbh.

Merch

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Any decent indy will replace a timing belt to main dealer standards. The Indy you knew that wouldn't do timing belts must not be a real mechanic tbh.

He was an older fellow, havent heard of him in a while, good mechanic and good with bodywork, not sure if he even works anymore.
He even said himself, it was all different when he started (no doubt) and that it was all diagnostics now, that was a good few years back at this point.

I credit him with at least admitting it wasn't worth the hassle for him to do.

edit, on the same note the guy I knew that got his timing belt done by another Indy when it slipped a few teeth couldnt get a hold of the guy, now that guy was working from home and was anything but a real mechanic, that spooked me as I was just pricing getting my own done and couldnt afford to replace the car.

Having said that, I'd avoid main dealers/stealers normally, a relative knows a good indy,and Ive come across another chap myself, if there was anything to do that was more trouble than it was worth, Id go to either of them. Not that Im faulting indys, just would be concerned of the follow up, if unlucky enough to have a problem.

Merry Prankster

Cheers for the help everyone. The seller has said that his friend (who did the work) should be able to request a copy of the receipts for the parts, but cannot provide a receipt for the labour as he is only an employee at a garage who did the work as a favour. If he can provide these receipts, should that be enough?

Merch

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Cheers for the help everyone. The seller has said that his friend (who did the work) should be able to request a copy of the receipts for the parts, but cannot provide a receipt for the labour as he is only an employee at a garage who did the work as a favour. If he can provide these receipts, should that be enough?

Maybe,
thats up to you
or based on the opinion of someone qualified enough to give you the info, up to you to accept (or not) their assessment.

the_syco

Merry Prankster wrote: »

Cheers for the help everyone. The seller has said that his friend (who did the work) should be able to request a copy of the receipts for the parts, but cannot provide a receipt for the labour as he is only an employee at a garage who did the work as a favour. If he can provide these receipts, should that be enough?

I'd say an employee in a garage could get a timing belt receipt easily enough... but it doesn't mean it'll be yours.