Is Irelands New car trade dead?

Grahamb23

Im working in the motor industry and want peoples opinion on weather or not people want to buy new cars any more? Used sales are up and what would you be looking for if you had money to buy a car??

barney 20v

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Im working in the motor industry and want peoples opinion on weather or not people want to buy new cars any more? Used sales are up and what would you be looking for if you had money to buy a car??

If you work in the trade and don't know what buyers are looking for might I suggest a different career??
Journalist perhaps

whippet

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Im working in the motor industry and want peoples opinion on weather or not people want to buy new cars any more? Used sales are up and what would you be looking for if you had money to buy a car??

Want to buy? .. what do you mean by this?

I want to buy many things, hypercars etc .. and maybe a matching pair of Rolls Royce Phantoms .... however having the 'ability' to buy is totally different.

Grahamb23

barney 20v wrote: »

If you work in the trade and don't know what buyers are looking for might I suggest a different career??
Journalist perhaps

Thank barney might just do that but its nice to hear from people about it and not just assuming what they want...... still interested in your opinion though.

Grahamb23

whippet wrote: »

Want to buy? .. what do you mean by this?

I want to buy many things, hypercars etc .. and maybe a matching pair of Rolls Royce Phantoms .... however having the 'ability' to buy is totally different.

I want to but many things too but I know what a=I can and cant afford. If you had €20000 tomorrow, would you buy a new car or a second hand car?????

alexlyons

barney 20v wrote: »

If you work in the trade and don't know what buyers are looking for might I suggest a different career??
Journalist perhaps

one of the best ways to find out what buyers want is to go out and ask them... Just because you work in a certain discipline doesnt mean you're a mind reader.

But in answer to the OP:

Unless money was no object, I wouldn't be buying new.
Finance on any car in my opinion and those of numerous people I've talked to, is just stupid these days.
Mine and friends opinion is, you buy whatever car you can afford with cash/trade in. If thats a 1 year old top of the range model, so be it, if its brand new, so be it (although brand new is also madness at the rate of depreciation). However if is a 7 year old car with good history then that's grand too.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that a car is 7 years old or the like, if it has a good history. Previously nobody would look at anything older than five years when buying second hand.

barney 20v

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Thank barney might just do that but its nice to hear from people about it and not just assuming what they want...... still interested in your opinion though.

Recession = cheap to run diesels...
However , still loads of people with money in this state so ????

dar83

Grahamb23 wrote: »

I want to but many things too but I know what a=I can and cant afford. If you had €20000 tomorrow, would you buy a new car or a second hand car?????

€20,000???

That might get me half of the new car I would want, just about... With that kind of budget I think you're looking only at the second hand market Graham.

Grahamb23

dar83 wrote: »

€20,000???

That might get me half of the new car I would want, just about... With that kind of budget I think you're looking only at the second hand market Graham.

Well the question was. If you were looking for a car would you buy New or Used ????????????? plenty new cars out there for €20000 or less. obviously im not talking about high end.

Green Diesel

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Well the question was. If you were looking for a car would you buy New or Used ????????????? plenty new cars out there for €20000 or less. obviously im not talking about high end.

Can't see myself ever buying a brand new car. I picked up my current car for just over 1k a couple years ago, depreciation free motoring is a pleasure.

If I had 20k, I'd prob spend 10k on something powerful a few years old, and keep the other 10k.

That said, there are still people who hold age above all else when it comes to cars, but I think peoples priorities have somewhat changed given the economic realities of the country.

dgt

Grahamb23 wrote: »

I want to but many things too but I know what a=I can and cant afford. If you had €20000 tomorrow, would you buy a new car or a second hand car?????

I'd use that money on my longtimers and daily hack. Then I'd have several nice cars to choose from

R.O.R

It's not dead, I'd say it's in hibernation until this dammed recession is over. At that point it will return, but not to anything like the levels it was in the Tiger years.

Chris_Heilong

I want more sports cars, the motor industry can blame the Government because it has become a dull market full of boring cars due to anything petrol and over 2l is considered a big engined car. If I want a 'New' car I won't be buying in Ireland.

Big Nasty

dgt wrote: »

I'd use that money on my longtimers and daily hack. Then I'd have several nice cars to choose from

Would 20k be enough to resurrect those yokes!?!:eek:

Not

Grahamb23 wrote: »

I want to but many things too but I know what a=I can and cant afford. If you had €20000 tomorrow, would you buy a new car or a second hand car?????

Neither, in this f'ed up economy there are better uses for €20,000. That's the reality these days

Given the current and future commitments on the taxpayer I reckon the USC is here to stay, I don't see wages rising over the next few years and in many cases disposable income will the further reduced (talks of taxing child benefit, further cuts in public servant pay etc etc) so I think the current recession still has a good 5 to 10 years left in it, if not longer.

So so so many new cars during the boom were financed by equity release and in many other cases borrowings tied into mortgages. Even when the economy recovers somewhat I don't think that carry on will be repeated on such large a scale.

If spending €20k on a car most enthusiasts would go 2nd hand, most badge snobs would too imo.

For people spending €20k on a new car perceived value for money would be a huge factor so long warranties and "free" servicing for a year or two would be of interest imo.

anthony4335

Give the guy a chance.
20k tomorrow for me that would be second hand. However this is for a few reasons, I do not want a diesel so that has become a limiting factor. I also like my cars with a 2 liter engine so I am stuck with mainly pre 2008 cars to choose from. I have only bought one new car in my life, and if I plan on keeping a car longer than a year I will possible do again.

ABajaninCork

If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't be buying a Paddy spec car. I think there's better value to be had in the UK, even with VRT. I will be going home to buy my next car. Neither would I buy new whether I had the money or not, as I think it's a waste of money. New cars depreciate the minute you drive them off the forecourt

K.Flyer

So which clever brainbox in SIMI was it thought, that by changing the format of the reg plates would make money magically appear in peoples pockets to buy new cars.

Grahamb23

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't be buying a Paddy spec car. I think there's better value to be had in the UK, even with VRT. I will be going home to buy my next car. Neither would I buy new whether I had the money or not, as I think it's a waste of money. New cars depreciate the minute you drive them off the forecourt

Used cars depreciate as soon as you drive them off the forecourt as well. Some people forget this. But seen as you not going to buy ''Paddy spec car'' (slightly racist) ill still thank you for your comment!!

Grahamb23

K.Flyer wrote: »

So which clever brainbox in SIMI was it thought, that by changing the format of the reg plates would make money magically appear in peoples pockets to buy new cars.

Someone that obviously never bought/sold a new car and looked at what they did in the UK. The reg system is a complete joke...:mad: agreed!

ABajaninCork

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Used cars depreciate as soon as you drive them off the forecourt as well. Some people forget this. But seen as you not going to buy ''Paddy spec car'' (slightly racist) ill still thank you for your comment!!

My comment was not meant to be racist. I am sorry if you view it that way. Perhaps I should say 'Poverty spec' instead...

And yes. I am well aware the car will depreciate whatever the age. But I am not prepared to take a 25-30% drop in the price just so that I can say I have a new car either!

My point remains this: I think cars in Ireland given the very low spec and relatively high prices are poor value for money. Coupled with the fact that people now have far less disposable income and job insecurity, that would be a very good reason why people are apparently reluctant to spend...

copacetic

The market is not good, but finally we are seeing a level of competition in Ireland for the limited market that is left. Warranty length becoming reasonable and 0%/low apr finance deals that have been available in UK and other markets for years but not here.

It's these kind of deals that make new car sales possible in a bad market, reasonable monthly payments with the car under warranty. Then pass it on to the second hand market, providing a market there too.

Chris_Heilong

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Used cars depreciate as soon as you drive them off the forecourt as well. Some people forget this. But seen as you not going to buy ''Paddy spec car'' (slightly racist) ill still thank you for your comment!!

Paddyspec means cars sold here in Ireland that are lacking options such as leather/heated seats, alloy wheels and in some extreme cases even lacking electric windows which would come as standard in a lot of European countries.

markfinn

Given 20K in the hand, I'd buy a E3000 2nd hander with a life expectancy of 2 years, and put the rest in a safe place to keep me in reasonable motors for the next 10 to 12 years.

ShadowHearth

I would LOVE to own a brand new car at least once in my life. Yuo know, that new car smell?

Even if i do all the calculation on trade ins and how much i can put on top of my trade in, it takes only one glimpse in to UK market and what people are getting there with same money. I just bury the idea of new car and just go check out some tasty older cars, which are a lot cheaper and bigger bang for the money.

I would buy a brand new car, but in ireland it is STUPIDLY expensive. Great example is Toyota GT86. Wheres in ireland that will cost you over 40k and in england over 20k.

Leonard Hofstadter

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Paddyspec means cars sold here in Ireland that are lacking options such as leather/heated seats, alloy wheels and in some extreme cases even lacking electric windows which would come as standard in a lot of European countries.

don't forget the lack of air conditioning, it's astonishing how many brand new cars in 2013 do not have this vital feature as standard in Ireland.

ShadowHearth

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Used cars depreciate as soon as you drive them off the forecourt as well. Some people forget this. But seen as you not going to buy ''Paddy spec car'' (slightly racist) ill still thank you for your comment!!

I dont know if a can agree on this. When you buy used car it is still worth as much as you bought it for. Big chance you can put the same car for sale and get even more for it then you payed. I sow people do that a lot. With brand new car the value Tanks down as soon as you put your name on it.

NinjaK

You cant enjoy cars in this country anyway, give me a cheap run-around and let me spend the rest on holidays:D

mickdw

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I would LOVE to own a brand new car at least once in my life. Yuo know, that new car smell........
..................

In my opinion, the mondeo passat insignia class of cars are quite well priced here. They start at mid 20s or so for what is is substantial car and after 3 years you will get a good chunk of that back on a passat anyway. They are quite affordable really considering you would have warranty for the entire ownership and good fuel efficiency and not to forget the cheap tax.

I do agree that the more desirable stuff tends to get out of hand here pricewise.

I bought new the last time and have that now out of my system. Car is now approaching 5 years old and I will be looking at used this time. As I say, if I was in the market for a typical saloon, I would possibly buy new but I will be looking for something alittle more tasty.

dr.fuzzenstein

I would spend the money on fixing up the CMax, it needs a clutch and a few other niggly bits.
Then I'd get a Mercedes 230E W123 for the weekends. The rest will go on bills and much needed home improvement.
Now back to grim reality where my car is held together by sheer willpower alone with no way of affording the repairs for a while and a longer commute coming up, but with that at least a better paying job.
A lot of people here saying "I'd never buy a new car" and that's fine, but someone has to, otherwise there'd be no second hand cars to buy and if new car sales don't pick up, 2nd hand prices will soon go up.
Sadly I'm part of the problem as well, unless I get that E40k minimum job (there's a laugh) I won't buy new.
The money just isn't there and the government is raping us for the few pennies we have.

K.Flyer

Apart from the lack of financial resources for most, there is also the increasing reluctance of buying new cars due to the spec value as compared to what our european neighbours get for a lot less money.
For years new car buyers were a nice earner for government revenue and the car dealers.
Both of them are going to have to seriously change the game plan if they want the new car market to get going again.

Zubeneschamali

dar83 wrote: »

€20,000??? That might get me half of the new car I would want, just about...

The current family motors are an S-Max which would be 40K new, and a Mini Cooper, 27K new, so with just 20K, definitely second hand. I like a new car, but I wouldn't buy a new crap car instead of a 2nd hand good one.

Zubeneschamali

K.Flyer wrote: »

the increasing reluctance of buying new cars due to the spec value as compared to what our european neighbours get for a lot less money.

I don't think this is an issue. Some of our European neighbours have always got more for their money, going back generations. Others still pay more than we do.

Peanut2011

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Used cars depreciate as soon as you drive them off the forecourt as well.

Must say that is I had the €20k to spend tomorrow on a car I would go for second hand. Not necessarily because of the range or badge snobbery but pure economics.

The brand new car will loose a lot more straight off than the second hand one will. Furthermore there will be more choice in second hand market. Also, getting a one or two year old second hand car with service history is about the same as brand new in my books.

And finally, if I ever got brand new car I could not stand to have it parked anywhere. On a second hand car small scratches don't bother me but if that was brand new it would do my head in.

monkeypants

I picked up a Mazda 3 MPS a week ago and it's working out well for me so far. It's a 08 reg and unfortunately I don't see a suitable replacement out there for it, if I wanted to replace it that is.

With tax and insurance, I spent €10k on it. I had to think long and hard about that commitment because I've got a property tax, water charges and whatever else coming down the line. Just because I can afford something today doesn't mean that I can afford it tomorrow.

Grahamb23

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Paddyspec means cars sold here in Ireland that are lacking options such as leather/heated seats, alloy wheels and in some extreme cases even lacking electric windows which would come as standard in a lot of European countries.

Yes Chris I understand what it means but still no business saying it...

STForSale

Definitely still a market for new cars, albeit a much smaller one.
Agree on the comments re value for money or purported so.

Salesmen defenitley need to sell now and not just take orders
as was often the case in the past.
Had very mixed experiences in the past couple of months.

flanzer

I remember buying a brand new MK 5 Golf in June '05. (Bear in mind the Mk 5 came out in '04). I remember going on a lads long weekend trip to Brussels and Amsterdam (and a few places in between), in March '06.

I remember at the time, Mk 5s were flooding the roads over here. They were everywhere. There was a 6 month waiting list for mine! Over there was a different story though. I could count 2 hands the amount I came across, BUT the amount of Mk1s and Mk2s were staggering though! All were well maintained too. Not a banger amongst them.

I think we're adopting the same attitude now (well I am anyway!). In 08, prior to the birth of my daughter, I bought an '05 1.9 TDi Passat and barring 1 or 2 minor things, it hasn't given me a days trouble. I service it as soon as it's due, and can never see myself getting rid of it. Everything about the car suits my needs.

To answer the OP, the general appetite for the Irish motorist to buy new cars is a thing of the past. Yes, there is a small a amount there, but has greatly diminished. If someone gave me 20K today, I'd have a serious guilt trip blowing it on a brand new car

galwaytt

K.Flyer wrote: »

Apart from the lack of financial resources for most, there is also the increasing reluctance of buying new cars due to the spec value as compared to what our european neighbours get for a lot less money.
For years new car buyers were a nice earner for government revenue and the car dealers.
Both of them are going to have to seriously change the game plan if they want the new car market to get going again.

I don't think the spec has anything to do with it, tbh. First off, most new-car buyers are NOT petrolheads, and if their new car is significantly more modern than their old one, it is going to be a higher spec anyway. The 'standard' spec of cars now, is higher than 10 yrs ago - just look at the 'toys' on the dash in most cars now (esp Korean etc).

As someone else mentioned, a lot of new car purchases were through equity release: who hasn't seen/heard of people buying/building new houses AND getting a new car at the time ? Even I was asked 'if i wanted a car' when I got me last mortgage - so for whatever no of 1000's of cars that sold, that is NEVER coming back.

The base, residual no of cars 'saleable', therefore is a lot lower than the figures we're used to.

I think mfrs financing is a ++, and seems to be competitive - it's cheaper than high street banks, and in some cases cheaper than the credit union as well. I don't know how easy it is to get, though.

And as for cars depreciating just 'off the lot' - that's correct. But by how much depends on the car: it was posted here yesterday that a lady lost only 16% on her 10-reg Qashqai over 27 months. That frankly, is the nearest thing you'll get to zero depreciation, ever. That works out at €40 a week for a 26k car. That's second-hand car money, that.

If you bought a Laguna under one of those Ol' Bill offers a few years ago (about 16k iirc), then you'd be in the weird situation now where depreciation, based on current list, could be s.f.a. - so it does all depend on what you paid on the day, and what you bought.

Personally, I've been downgrading, and downgrading, and I'm tired of it - I'd buy a new car in the morning - but as mentioned there are some trains coming down the tracks: new taxes & charges....and that money has to come from somewhere.

Which segways nicely into the issue of motoring taxes generally: we still pay too much, and in particular those of us who can't get (back) on the new-car ladder. The S.O.'s 05 car is very reasonable to run, is comfy, and she likes it. But finding €951 to tax it is a nightmare. You can argue that a new car would be cheaper to tax, but cost more in depreciation - and yes, you'd be right. However, I'd rather give €951 to someone, to industry, to generate a bit of commerce, than to the robbing b'sterds in Kildare Street. If I have to give it to someone, I'd prefer to give it to someone who'd give me something in return for it - motoring taxes is just dead money, plain & simple.

BrianD3

As I posted on a previous thread I think the distributors have messed up by not bringing in their most economical cars (eg the most economical versions of the Opel Corsa, Hyundai i20, Kia Rio, Ford Fiesta) and then advertising them heavily based on their fuel consumption, CO2 figures and tax bands.

Some posters in this forum are out of touch with the average new car buyer and the mood of the country if they think that people want heated leather seats and other "spec". It's the opposite, people are in the mood for austerity, downsizing, and sack cloth & ashes. At the same time they are worried about reliability and want a safe car so they don't want bangers/bangernomics.

Many people can afford new cars but are (unnecessarily in many cases) worrried about future income tax etc. increases and need some encouragement to buy. And even if it seems irrational, paying 15k for a Kia Rio 1.1d with an official average official fuel consumption figure of 88 mpg to claw back future income tax increases might be this encouragement. Except Kia don't sell this car here and nobody knows about it.

creedp

galwaytt wrote: »

But finding €951 to tax it is a nightmare. You can argue that a new car would be cheaper to tax, but cost more in depreciation - and yes, you'd be right. However, I'd rather give €951 to someone, to industry, to generate a bit of commerce, than to the robbing b'sterds in Kildare Street. If I have to give it to someone, I'd prefer to give it to someone who'd give me something in return for it - motoring taxes is just dead money, plain & simple.

I agree that Motor Tax is highway robbery on older cars but so also is VRT on new cars. You're caught whichever way you squirm in this country. It nearly killed me in 2009 to hand over €7k VRT for a 12 month old 2l TCDI S-max that cost be just over €15k in the UK. There is something awful wrong when the tax is almost 50% of the actual retail price.

creedp

BrianD3 wrote: »

Some posters in this forum are out of touch with the average new car buyer and the mood of the country if they think that people want heated leather seats and other "spec". It's the opposite, people are in the mood for austerity, downsizing, and sack cloth & ashes. At the same time they are worried about reliability and want a safe car so they don't want bangers/bangernomics.

That's exactly what I was thinking this morning as I headed down Gardiner St and saw a brand spanking new RR Sport with all its lights blazing in the sunshine:)

ABajaninCork

BrianD3 wrote: »

As I posted on a previous thread I think the distributors have messed up by not bringing in their most economical cars (eg the most economical versions of the Opel Corsa, Hyundai i20, Kia Rio, Ford Fiesta) and then advertising them heavily based on their fuel consumption, CO2 figures and tax bands.

Some posters in this forum are out of touch with the average new car buyer and the mood of the country if they think that people want heated leather seats and other "spec". It's the opposite, people are in the mood for austerity, downsizing, and sack cloth & ashes. At the same time they are worried about reliability and want a safe car so they don't want bangers/bangernomics.

Many people can afford new cars but are (unnecessarily in many cases) worrried about future income tax etc. increases and need some encouragement to buy. And even if it seems irrational, paying 15k for a Kia Rio 1.1d with an official average official fuel consumption figure of 88 mpg to claw back future income tax increases might be this encouragement. Except Kia don't sell this car here and nobody knows about it.

I would have to disagree with some of what you say. I think a lot of people are looking for value for money these days, not necessarily a brand shiny new car. Personally, I don't think poverty spec cars for the prices paid here don't represent that. I want a decently spec'd car, in good condition, for a decent price.

I would also have to disagree about your second point. It's hardly 'unnecessary' that people are worried about tax increases. It is a legitimate concern. We all know these taxes (income, property, and water for a start) are coming in shortly. What we don't know is what these will look like. For example. Property tax is E200 now AFAIK. What will it be in a year, 18 months, 2 year's time? You don't know and neither do we. There is a lot less job security than before. How will you finance the car (as a good many people do) if you lose your job in the meantime? I think THAT is why so many people are reluctant to buy new cars.

mickdw

BrianD3 wrote: »

Many people can afford new cars but are (unnecessarily in many cases) worrried about future income tax etc. increases and need some encouragement to buy. And even if it seems irrational, paying 15k for a Kia Rio 1.1d with an official average official fuel consumption figure of 88 mpg to claw back future income tax increases might be this encouragement. Except Kia don't sell this car here and nobody knows about it.

Who the f**k wants a 1.1d kia rio at 15k?

rocky

I chose to go with a gas guzzler for a third of 20k last month. Even though I could afford it, I'd never buy a new car in Ireland, they are very overpriced, whereas older bigger engined cars are underpriced...

Zubeneschamali

BrianD3 wrote: »

It's the opposite, people are in the mood for austerity, downsizing, and sack cloth & ashes.

Downsizing does not mean buying a nasty cheap car. It may just mean speccing your Merc CLS with a 2.1 diesel instead of a V8.

monkeypants

Add to all the above that with the tax changes since 2008, there are so many diesels now. I'm not interested in diesel and probably never will be. But so many of the new cars on offer are diesel and so many of the second hand market is too.

Whatever happened to the interesting engines? Are there any still out there?

bidiots

Grahamb23 wrote: »

Yes Chris I understand what it means but still no business saying it...

Truth hurts and all that

Sobanek

monkeypants wrote: »

Add to all the above that with the tax changes since 2008, there are so many diesels now. I'm not interested in diesel and probably never will be. But so many of the new cars on offer are diesel and so many of the second hand market is too.

Whatever happened to the interesting engines? Are there any still out there?

If the tax wasn't so ridiculous for CO2 emissions over 180g, then I'd say there would be more petrol cars here.

monkeypants

Sobanek wrote: »

If the tax wasn't so ridiculous for CO2 emissions over 180g, then I'd say there would be more petrol cars here.

Tell me about it. My 3 would be €2.3k+ on the new system. :eek: