Software Tester Jobs

Perry12

Hi, I am looking for some help regarding software testing jobs. I am currently learning C# with a view to becoming a developer. I have no previous programming knowledge but I am an engineer (manufacturing) and worked as a systems tech for 10 years mainly using PLC's etc and have good troubleshooting skills.

I'm thinking of taking the ISTQB-BCS foundation course in software testing and I'm wondering if this is usually enough to at least get a junior role as a tester to gain experience in the industry.

Any help appreciated.

srsly78

Why not do a development course?

Perry12

srsly78 wrote: »

Why not do a development course?

I was thinking to do one but still a lot of the jobs advertised require a bit of commercial experience up to 18 months in some cases. The software testing jobs I've seen will usually not require much experience on the job if any.

Do you know of a decent development course?
Cheers

srsly78

Loads of development courses around, from FAS and from Unis etc.

Just know that most people that get into testing stay in testing.

It's a bit confusing tho because testing can mean lots of different stuff:
Writing Unit tests (this is what developers do)
Working in QA (this is what a software tester is)

Perry12

I know there is a risk of getting stuck in a testing job for too long but I think to get in now and start earning whilst still learning C# is better than not earning.

Testing might give a good grounding and understanding of development also?

srsly78

It might, however it may also put you off it for life

ChRoMe

srsly78 wrote: »

It might, however it may also put you off it for life

A thousand times this, working in QA will make you want to ****ing slit your wrists.

I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.

awec

It depends what sort of testing role it is.

Merrion

Writing unit tests and automated test scripts is very close to programming. Doing manual QA definitely isn't.

Perry12

srsly78 wrote: »

It might, however it may also put you off it for life

Hmmm...It would be interesting to know what the career path has been of most of the developers on here. Have most of you gone down the academic route and straight into the role or has anyone done it in a more indirect way?

srsly78

If you count dropping out of college then yes.

If you want to be a developer then start writing code, it really is as simple as that.

BostonB

I have, I started in testing many many moons ago, but I didn't go from testing to development, and not in the same company. I did a load of roles in-between and I really was only able to make the jump because at one point I was in a rapidly growing company that had lots of opportunities. However these days its very different. I wouldn't advise it tbh.

A better route would be to stick with development qualifications, certification, do some of your own projects, open source etc. Keep your head in the development mind space. Don't get distracted with anything else.

Companies like to pigeon hole people, if they see you as a tester, they find it hard to see you as a developer. Also you'll get caught up in the day job and it will distract you from what you want to do. It may end up sapping your focus to get to development.

rainbow kirby

I started in testing when I finished my masters in 2010 - worked for almost 2 years in financial software QA before getting a development job 7 months ago. I was offered a development job at the same time as being offered the QA job, but rejected it on the basis of the location, poor salary and some really nasty clauses in the contract of employment (having to pay back a very substantial "cost of training" if I left in the first 2 years). I got a bit more comfortable in the QA job than I should have - I probably should have left after a year or else kept looking for a development job at the time.

Perry12

I'm currently putting about 3/4 hours study per day into C# so I guess I'll keep plodding along and them attempt a project and build up the cv. I like it so that's a good start.

There is an Asp.net book on the shelf waiting for me when I'm ready too!

srsly78

When you say "study" I hope you mean writing code, otherwise it's pretty worthless.

BostonB

You also need to look at jobs and see what they are looking for. Then try to tick as many of those boxes with your projects.

JoeyJJ

You can get pigeon holed alright. I work in testing in the Insurance sector and while its not glamorous it pays the bills, thankfully I am test lead so I don't do much formal manual testing. You can move to different roles if you join a progressive company however you need to be committed, currently one of my team members is trying it out.

Perry12

srsly78 wrote: »

When you say "study" I hope you mean writing code, otherwise it's pretty worthless.

Study - write some code - study some more - write some more code....I'm using the Head First C# book and some online tutorials.

Perry12

JoeyJJ wrote: »

You can get pigeon holed alright. I work in testing in the Insurance sector and while its not glamorous it pays the bills, thankfully I am test lead so I don't do much formal manual testing. You can move to different roles if you join a progressive company however you need to be committed, currently one of my team members is trying it out.

In your opinion is a foundation cert enough to get your foot in the door in a tester role?

JoeyJJ

If you have a history of achievement be in your previous field be it professionally or academic I don't see why not, a lot of testers don't do Computer science in college. Try to stay away from localisation testing, that isn't great financially or for career path unless you want to go down the localisation development.

Perry12

JoeyJJ wrote: »

If you have a history of achievement be in your previous field be it professionally or academic I don't see why not, a lot of testers don't do Computer science in college. Try to stay away from localisation testing, that isn't great financially or for career path unless you want to go down the localisation development.

Thanks for the info

jme2010

Perry12 wrote: »

Hi, I am looking for some help regarding software testing jobs. I am currently learning C# with a view to becoming a developer. I have no previous programming knowledge but I am an engineer (manufacturing) and worked as a systems tech for 10 years mainly using PLC's etc and have good troubleshooting skills.

I'm thinking of taking the ISTQB-BCS foundation course in software testing and I'm wondering if this is usually enough to at least get a junior role as a tester to gain experience in the industry.

Any help appreciated.

How is the study getting on, OP?

It will be VERY hard to get into development, from home study alone. You NEED a third level qualification specific to SOFTWARE in order be taken seriously in a development role.

Even a FAS cert wont be good enough for a long-term plan. I was told by by manager, my engineering degree was too "hardware" based and I need to basically get a software degree i.e computer science. It would hinder my salary year on year.

I don't know how other managers feel about it, but it scared the crap out of me.

srsly78

jme2010 wrote: »

It will be VERY hard to get into development, from home study alone. You NEED a third level qualification specific to SOFTWARE in order be taken seriously in a development role.

No you don't. There are loads of developers without a software specific degree. Science degrees, maths degrees, physics degrees. I even worked with one developer that had a phd in history.

I got into development myself with no degree at all.

ChRoMe

jme2010 wrote: »

How is the study getting on, OP?

It will be VERY hard to get into development, from home study alone. You NEED a third level qualification specific to SOFTWARE in order be taken seriously in a development role.

Even a FAS cert wont be good enough for a long-term plan. I was told by by manager, my engineering degree was too "hardware" based and I need to basically get a software degree i.e computer science. It would hinder my salary year on year.

I don't know how other managers feel about it, but it scared the crap out of me.

Except I'm a senior developer with no 3rd level qualification..... so thats bollocks.

BostonB

I think you'll find there a lot of experienced people in IT and development without 3rd level software degrees.

However its seems to be a growing requirement of Agencies and HR depts to look for 3rd level degrees in computer science, which might explain part of the reason why they keep complaining they can't find experienced people.

It might be a longer road to get in without a degree. But I think thats like giving someone road directions, "well I wouldn't start from here".

SalteeDog

jme2010 wrote: »

I was told by by manager, my engineering degree was too "hardware" based and I need to basically get a software degree i.e computer science. It would hinder my salary year on year.

I don't know how other managers feel about it, but it scared the crap out of me.

Not my experience either. I've worked with developers who were Civil Engineers, Geologists, Physics graduates, ex-Journalists even plus folks with no degree at all - generally what counts is your experience with writing code and (sorry to say) having a track record of being able to hold down decent jobs/contracts in the past.

jme2010

I've never felt so happy to be slated by responses.

Thanks ChRoMe. You've put my mind at ease.

I was in a bad mood making that post after my meeting with my manager, and he basically said "You need to get x certified and have y qualification and z experience to move up the ladder here."

Sorry if I offended any fellow software guys/gals.

ChRoMe

jme2010 wrote: »

I've never felt so happy to be slated by responses.

Thanks ChRoMe. You've put my mind at ease.

I was in a bad mood making that post after my meeting with my manager, and he basically said "You need to get x certified and have y qualification and z experience to move up the ladder here."

Sorry if I offended any fellow software guys/gals.

I did however have a decade of general IT experience (still no qualifications) before I became a senior developer.

Colonel Panic

A minor detail barely worth mentioning!

irishgrover

ISTQB certification will be a beneficial differentiator between you and an equally unexperienced candidate loooking for a start in the software industry.
Testing can be a very interesting and challanging area to work in. It can also be very technical, rewarding and well paid.
Testing can also be a manual, brainless, thankless, low paid, unintelligent script monkey activity carried out by people who have limited technical skils and limited ability to migrate into other technical roles.
I think it all depends on where you are commng from, where you want to go and what company you are in.

Personally, if I was in your position I would....

a.) Consider doing the ISTQB certification on the cheap (buy this book - Foundations of Software Testing: ISTQB Certification (ISBN-10: 1844809897), study it in parallel with the sylibus (from here http://www.istqb.org/downloads/viewdownload/16/15.html) and then go and sit the exam (can do in prometric centres in Dublin, Athlone, Cork, Limerick etc cost 155)

b.) Download and play with tools such as junit, jmeter, selenium etc and get familiar with them.

c.) get interview for test job (not sure how to do that :-) ) and do not tell the hiring manager that you are interested in a testing job as a way to get into other development jobs (this pisses off test managers), but do tell him/her that you have limited experience in the software industry, but you realise that quality is hugely important, and that testing is a very important part of software development, regardless of who does it, or what part of the SDLC if is done in. Tell him that you do not konw what you want to do in 2 years, or whatever, but you are confident that a job as a tester will give you a great option to get a well grounded appriciation of testing and quality matters and that you hope that would stand to you at any poin in your career. Also do stress,if approriate, that you are primarily interested in utilising your technicla background and would relish opoptunities in more technical, white box and automated testing types.

jme2010

irishgrover wrote: »

do not tell the hiring manager that you are interested in a testing job as a way to get into other development jobs (this pisses off test managers)

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D One of the first things I said in the interview....oops lol. But to be fair I am working for free (JobBridge) So I can be selfish in my quest to become a developer.

awec

You can get away without a degree if you can prove that you are still sh!t hot. Things like open source projects are great for this. Pointing someone to your github is a good start.

ChRoMe

jme2010 wrote: »

. But to be fair I am working for free (JobBridge)

Sigh as an expat who reads a lot of depressing news from home, this is one of the particularly bad ones.

ChRoMe

Colonel Panic wrote: »

A minor detail barely worth mentioning!

Point still stands. There is nothing stopping someone with a good portfolio of personal projects getting in to the job.

jme2010

ChRoMe wrote: »

Sigh as an expat who reads a lot of depressing news from home, this is one of the particularly bad ones.

Sigh for the rest of them, not me.

The last 3 of 3 JB applicants in QA IBM are now on full-time contracts. I am to be offered mine in next few weeks.

Sigh for the idiots who fall for JB under the unskilled section. Like car washing attendant and tea maker.

Two friends of mine in control systems engineering companies are now full-time too. (from JB scheme)

Alot of people bad mouth the JB scheme, and yes, it is a place for greedy companies to take advantage of the unemployed. But it's their [applicants] fault for not applying to reputable companies with a strong ethos on employee trust and relationships. Companies with good names like Microsoft, Google, Ebay, Paypal Xerox are not going to treat their JB applicants like crap.

I know I'm speaking about tech jobs, but what do people expect when they go on JB with spar or jurys hotel?

[TL:DR] Job bridge works for a lot of people, mainly graduates looking for the experience (which is invaluable) and it doesn't matter if they get hired. They got what they needed. Experience and that big company name on the CV.

ChRoMe

jme2010 wrote: »

Sigh for the rest of them, not me.

The last 3 of 3 JB applicants in QA IBM are now on full-time contracts. I am to be offered mine in next few weeks.

Sigh for the idiots who fall for JB under the unskilled section. Like car washing attendant and tea maker.

Two friends of mine in control systems engineering companies are now full-time too. (from JB scheme)

Alot of people bad mouth the JB scheme, and yes, it is a place for greedy companies to take advantage of the unemployed. But it's their [applicants] fault for not applying to reputable companies with a strong ethos on employee trust and relationships. Companies with good names like Microsoft, Google, Ebay, Paypal Xerox are not going to treat their JB applicants like crap.

I know I'm speaking about tech jobs, but what do people expect when they go on JB with spar or jurys hotel?

[TL:DR] Job bridge works for a lot of people, mainly graduates looking for the experience (which is invaluable) and it doesn't matter if they get hired. They got what they needed. Experience and that big company name on the CV.

Unpaid labor falls into my definition of "treating applicants like crap", its a disgrace. </rant>

srsly78

Except they get paid for it so that's ok then,

ChRoMe

srsly78 wrote: »

Except they get paid for it so that's ok then,

Thats not my understanding?

Hang on you are not going to attempt to frame this as they are paid in the form of their dole are you?

srsly78

They get an extra 50 quid on top of the dole. When I was that age I would have happily taken an unpaid development job, getting foot in the door is the hard part.

These new guys really need to get some perspective, in a few years they should be earning serious money - so why complain about voluntary internships?

This isn't like the UK where people are forced to work in Tesco or lose their benefits.

rainbow kirby

Also, that sort of graduate role to get experience would have had a ok to decent salary for a new grad associated with it a few years back, but now it's 50 quid on top of the dole. That's just wrong.

ChRoMe

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Also, that sort of graduate role to get experience would have had a ok to decent salary for a new grad associated with it a few years back, but now it's 50 quid on top of the dole. That's just wrong.

Its plain exploitation

ChRoMe

srsly78 wrote: »

They get an extra 50 quid on top of the dole. When I was that age I would have happily taken an unpaid development job, getting foot in the door is the hard part.

These new guys really need to get some perspective, in a few years they should be earning serious money - so why complain about voluntary internships?

This isn't like the UK where people are forced to work in Tesco or lose their benefits.

Its bad for everyone in the industry. I know you have the smarts srsly78 so I'm not going to spell it out why.

Tar.Aldarion

The problem here is quality, if there are getting somebody to teach them, they aren't just getting 50e + the dole. There are some good ones and lots of terrible ones. Also yes, some people may use it as a way to get labour cheaper whereas they would have offered a job before. I eventually got a job but if I hadn't there is no way I'd turn down a good internship. Nothing to stop you looking during it either. The real issue is that it should be offered where no job could have been offered, that is not the case most of the time.

jme2010

ChRoMe wrote: »

Its bad for everyone in the industry. I know you have the smarts srsly78 so I'm not going to spell it out why.

If you have all the answers, what is the alternative?

In this current economy, companies only want to shell out money for senior level applicants with years of experience. What is a fresh graduate with no real world exposure to do?

I understand before the downturn a graduate could start on a decent salary and now has to take the dole instead. Get over it. These are not the good old times. these are the sh1tty sh1tty times, and we all have to do what is needed in order to secure a future for ourselves.

If that means I have to put up with the dole for a just couple of months longer, with the prospect of 30K+ starting salary + bonus and I can work from home whenever the hell I feel like. Then so be it. We're all in this poxy mess together, lets just pull through it. If it doesn't work out, well F**K it.

ChRoMe wrote: »

as an expat.

Maybe I'll just turn my back on the country too.

ChRoMe

jme2010 wrote: »

If you have all the answers, what is the alternative?

Well considering the whole reason Ireland is in a such a ****ing mess is the lack of consumer spending to stimulate demand and thus jobs.. paying people for their surplus value seems like a pretty good start to stimulate demand doesn't it?

I'll let the "turn my back on the country" comment slide, as frankly all that does is illustrate your naivety which I imagine is due to age.

srsly78

They should introduce a special internship scheme just for STEM jobs, with strict monitoring and criteria - maybe with a little more pay as well.

rainbow kirby

There's no excuse though for large companies who can well afford to pay a graduate a living wage to be using JobBridge in my opinion. The IT sector has not been hit anywhere near as badly as others, so they really shouldn't be behaving like they have. It's exploitative and grossly unfair to new grads.

ChRoMe

srsly78 wrote: »

They should introduce a special internship scheme just for STEM jobs, with strict monitoring and criteria - maybe with a little more pay as well.

Or take all the money that would be required to implement strict monitoring and just create jobs, crazy idea I know.

srsly78

That is a meaningless platitude that I would expect to hear from a politician. How would these jobs be created? By the government? By the private sector? There are already loads of grants etc available. IT is not the sector with an unemployment problem.

Tar.Aldarion

I dont think you can just take money and throw it at the problem like that chrome. While there isnt a problem for people with experience srsly78 there is for grads no? Even for jobbridges they get inundated with applications. There are jobs there, but there is huge demand.

srsly78

My Job Bridge advertisement got inundated with applications from Indian guys... not Irish guys.