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not being part of your childs life

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    #92
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    No, they don't actually. People respond to complex circumstances. About the only example I am aware of where anyone literally walked away from their kids are those few occasions when skanky mums fecked off to Ibiza for the week and left the ten year old in charge of the four year old with a bag of cheese and onion for dinner.
    I felt it made more sense to word it that way than paraphrase, but since you insist: some men do fight to remain in their children's lives no matter what the personal cost, but others do not, and it is not possible to blame the latter cohort without first knowing the full extent of circumstances surrounding each individual case, as seen from the plurality of perspectives which pertain.
    I hope that clarifies for you.

    Sounds like you did just that and went ahead and blamed those "skanky" mothers "without first knowing the full extent of circumstances surrounding the case".

    If you take what is reported in newspapers as absolute, unbiased fact, then your naive to say the least. Interesting how your rule only applies to men though. Not denying the cases above never happened but like you said, we don't know the full story. You've already judged the case without knowing the details. That's a bit hypocritical if ye don't mind me saying.


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    #93
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    More anecdotes...
    You stated as fact that it was not possible for a woman to definitively shut out a father. I offered you a proven methodology for doing so. Your response? More anecdotes.
    It smacks of some sort of strange whataboutery actually. It's reminiscent of those Northern Ireland threads where someone posts something about, say, the flag protests being disruptive, and someone else responds "But what about the Provos murdering people?" In other words, nothing you posted relates to what I wrote. It just smacks of taking sides, drawing lines, being needlessly adversarial and confrontational.

    Why do you dismiss these cases as anecdotes? Sure why else would you want to introduce the Scandinavian model if it wasn't to address these "anecdotes"? Real people are involved, it isn't some story told down the pub.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #94
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Im not reading through anymore waffle in this thread. Has anyone had any "sympathy" for people like me who barely get to see their kids? I have my daughter for a few hours on a Sunday, Wednesday and Friday, she is not allowed to stay overnight with me because her mother doesnt like my new partner(who i have been with for about 3 years). Every day my daughter is in my house, she asks why isnt she allowed stay with me at night and i have to tell her to ask her mother because its not my fault.


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    #95
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Melion wrote: »
    Im not reading through anymore waffle in this thread. Has anyone had any "sympathy" for people like me who barely get to see their kids? I have my daughter for a few hours on a Sunday, Wednesday and Friday, she is not allowed to stay overnight with me because her mother doesnt like my new partner(who i have been with for about 3 years). Every day my daughter is in my house, she asks why isnt she allowed stay with me at night and i have to tell her to ask her mother because its not my fault.

    I never understood why somebody is obviously considered able enough to get access during the day, is then somehow not fit to have an overnight. The default should be 50/50 or as near as practically possible.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #96
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    K-9 wrote: »
    I never understood why somebody is obviously considered able enough to get access during the day, is then somehow not fit to have an overnight. The default should be 50/50 or as near as practically possible.

    Oh trust me, ive had that argument so much over the last year my head is melting.


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    #97
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Melion wrote: »
    Im not reading through anymore waffle in this thread. Has anyone had any "sympathy" for people like me who barely get to see their kids? I have my daughter for a few hours on a Sunday, Wednesday and Friday, she is not allowed to stay overnight with me because her mother doesnt like my new partner(who i have been with for about 3 years). Every day my daughter is in my house, she asks why isnt she allowed stay with me at night and i have to tell her to ask her mother because its not my fault.

    I absolutely have sympathy for you, genuinely I do but I also have sympathy for posters like Hairy Princess (whose words I have to take as much as yours). The fact that her story was discounted by Cavehill Red is as unfair as your story being discounted. I think we need to acknowledge that there are ****ty parents out there and gender has nothing to do with it.

    I'm very sorry your in this situation.


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    #98
    D-FENS
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭D-FENS


    Melion wrote: »
    Im not reading through anymore waffle in this thread. Has anyone had any "sympathy" for people like me who barely get to see their kids? I have my daughter for a few hours on a Sunday, Wednesday and Friday, she is not allowed to stay overnight with me because her mother doesnt like my new partner(who i have been with for about 3 years). Every day my daughter is in my house, she asks why isnt she allowed stay with me at night and i have to tell her to ask her mother because its not my fault.

    Have you looked into getting the courts involved here? sounds to me that you would have a decent case if you already see your child three times week.


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    #99
    BUBBLE WRAP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Jazzmaster wrote: »
    AH might not be the best place. Try the Mrs. Lovejoy forum.

    Or the "Listen lady" forum..


    EDIT: For anyone who doesn't understand the joke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Marge_We_Trust


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    #100
    ElleEm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭ElleEm


    I just cannot fathom a situation where I could understand why someone would not want to be a part of their child's life.

    At the risk of Cavehill's wrath for my "anecdotes", I have seen men "walk away" from their kids to go travelling, start new families, escape responsibility, etc. These are cases where contact has not been maintained.
    I have worked with teen parents around the rights of unmarried fathers, as most people (even adults I know) are clueless about gaurdianship/ custody/ access etc. in Irish law. I also have personal experience of a family member fighting the courts so get access to his child.

    I understand that an unmarried mother is the sole gaurdian of the child, but I have seen this be abused on more occasions than I would like to recall. It sickens me to the stomach that children are being used as tools to hurt other people. I have seen kids be used as puppets in adult relationships for spite, control and money.

    I have a huge amount of sympathy for unmarried fathers in Ireland as they have to fight for rights to their own child from the minute it's born, and the courts definitely seem bias towards the mother. But it seems that more stories are told about "dead beat dads", then are told about men's struggles to see their kids.


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    #101
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »
    Or the "Listen lady" forum..

    There's no need to be so snide.


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    #102
    BUBBLE WRAP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    There's no need to be so snide.

    simpsons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Marge_We_Trust

    It was a Simpsons joke. :)


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    #103
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »
    simpsons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Marge_We_Trust

    It was a Simpsons joke. :)

    Okay. I'm not a fan of The Simpsons. :)


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    #104
    BUBBLE WRAP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Okay. I'm not a fan of The Simpsons. :)

    Great Scott! :eek:


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    #105
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »
    Great Scott! :eek:

    I like it but not a fan, if ye get me. :-/


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    #106
    BUBBLE WRAP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    I like it but not a fan, if ye get me. :-/

    Fair enough.. :p


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    #107
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    D-FENS wrote: »
    Have you looked into getting the courts involved here? sounds to me that you would have a decent case if you already see your child three times week.

    We are going to court soon but i wont be getting a solicitor basically because i cant afford one. Her mother is doing it so there are guaranteed days that i have my daughter because one time, because of circumstances beyond my control, i couldnt take her on the day i was meant to(but took her on a different day instead).


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    #108
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    There are a range of punishments for non-compliance. Fines apply in the case of refusing to name the father on the birth certificate, for example.
    The culture (and the argument as to whether the law followed the culture or vice versa is not one I'm qualified to answer) is different to here. Fathers are involved in all decisions from day one, are facilitated in leave to raise the children, and are considered equal co-parents.
    But it does extend further than the family law system. Childcare is heavily subsidised for example, and there is a more collective understanding of responsibility for minding children.

    Do fines apply to the men who refuse to? And to those who dont want to see their kids?

    What about the ones who emmigrate? Remarry? etc.... Do they all get fined?

    I can't see that really working. In fact should I even believe you? Some policy from Scandinavia that forces dads to be dads and enforces it? I have a really hard time believing that.

    Also, you kind of lose credibility for unbias when you dismiss one person's anecdotes and not your own. .

    Anecdotes aren't worthy of automatic dismissal. Everything in the end outside of science, is anecdotal. There was really no call for calling singling mother whining, and skangers, etc. That kind of name calling hardly brings about depth and understanding to such a topic loaded with hurt for a lot of people, both mothers and fathers, and especially the kids.

    I dont know why you are so insistent on blaming the mother. These kinds of anecdotes can verify the inertia to the point it might encourage a reader to not even bother trying, and then you are part of the access problem, because this story, this narrative, the one YOU are perpetuating, is helping building the wall to keep fathers out and letting mothers out there know, that yes they can get away with it.

    But this should not dominate this discussion. There are a multitude of reasons why someone might not be in their child's life.


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    #109
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    Melion wrote: »

    We are going to court soon but i wont be getting a solicitor basically because i cant afford one.
    Have you tried applying for legal aid?


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    #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My father walked away from me 42 years ago.

    I was lucky in that I had a great relationship with his family, who I visited all the time when I was a child, they tried to make up for him I suppose. They were really good and kind to me. My mam never bad mouthed him, and in fact she got on well with his family too.

    From him, I never got a letter, a birthday card, a phone call. All his choice, as he could have passed a card along through his family, but he wanted the life, without a child bothering him I guess.

    Now, a few months ago, I was tracked down on the net, by someone telling me he was dying and wanted to see me. To tell me how sorry he was etc etc.
    They asked would I get in touch with him. He also wanted pics of me and my children!!
    Is he mad or what LOL

    That will never happen. He can die feeling full of regret as far as I am concerned.

    He is reaping what he sowed.


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    #111
    Cerulean Chicken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭Cerulean Chicken


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Ah, another glass of single mother's favourite w(h)ine.
    Delicious!

    As a single father, let me ask you this, OP: do you really believe anyone 'walks away' from their children, or are they more likely in fact to be discouraged by the requirement to engage in an expensive, adversarial court process in order to obtain even a provisional involvement in their children's lives following a relationship break up?
    Also, do you think anyone would 'walk away' from their children if we had parental equality enshrined in law from birth, as is the case in Scandinavia?

    My Dad happily walked away from two children by two different women, first me, the child he had with his wife and then my half sister, who he had with the woman he cheated with. Neither mother was taking him to court, they were both civilised grown ups about the whole thing, but mainly because they knew he had no interest in seeing us never mind access or custody! Except for our mothers asking him to call us, call over to see us etc he would've happily never seen us again, no interest, he can only hang out with you if you're willing to join him in drinking binges in the pub of his choice, so kids weren't any good to him. He happily bought my sister alcoholic drinks from 13 on, he didn't buy me one until my 18th birthday (because my mother would kill him) at which point he took me drinking the night I turned 18 and so followed one of the worst, most regrettable nights of my life.

    A friend of mine's dad is friends with my Dad, and they are cut from the same cloth. He left the family years ago, just walked away, he did however show up to cry and howl at her brother's funeral, even though he hadn't met up with him at any of the given opportunities in the previous years. The last time I saw him he told me his daughter/my friend is a "c*nt and a b!tch", charming.

    So yes, some people do just walk away, and others possibly should just f*ck off forever, for everyone's benefit. I have gained nothing from having my father in my life other than some vicious hangovers and awful drunken injuries when I was young and stupid enough to think my Dad would look out for me.


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    #112
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    ...And of course sometimes your kid don't want to see you.


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    #113
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    smash wrote: »
    Ffs when did schools stop teaching properly. This country is getting illiterate as f*cking record speed!

    "at"

    Just sayin'


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    #114
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    As have cases where men have abandoned their children. What's your point?

    My point was that the emotive phrase 'walking away' has a very limited applicability, verging on useless.

    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    So why did you give your own?

    I did acknowledge it ran the risk of someone like you engaging in exactly this form of mcguffin debate. I have already explained I did it for the purpose of clarity. I've now amended it to present the exact same argument in a generic form. I look forward to you engaging with that.
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Two words: Levenson Enquiry.

    You understand the Leveson inquiry was not about the reliability of press presentation of court reports, I hope?


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    #115
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    smash wrote: »
    'Been' does not equal 'being'

    And it's their life, not there life.

    Ffs when did schools stop teaching properly. This country is getting illiterate as f*cking record speed!
    Untrue. This country was always illiterate.


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    #116
    Freddy Smelly
    Registered Users Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Freddy Smelly


    cena wrote: »
    Could you not be part of your childs life?

    I don't know how people can just walk away from there children

    to avoid paying tax on children's allowance????


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    #117
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    I did acknowledge it ran the risk of someone like you engaging in exactly this form of mcguffin debate. I have already explained I did it for the purpose of clarity. I've now amended it to present the exact same argument in a generic form. I look forward to you engaging with that.?

    Someone like me? Can you explain that please? Genuinely would like to hear what you mean by that.


    Like how you only referred to my posts when many other disagreed with you. Selective listening suits your agenda, obviously.


    You fixed your posts but it doesn't undo your hypocrisy. Sorry pal! :)


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    #118
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    You understand the Leveson inquiry was not about the reliability of press presentation of court reports, I hope?

    I used it as an example of the press breaking the law and getting away with it for a very long time. If they've done this, then my confidence in what they report has justifiably lessened as a result.

    That wasn't my point though (I've already stated what my point was but you chose to ignore it again to suit your own agenda).

    As I said previously, I don't deny the cases happened but I can also show you stories of fathers abandoning their children and for some strange reason, you won't acknowledge this happens instead discounting stories from posters because they're anecdotal (which doesn't mean they're inherently untrue.). I stated that the label of shit parents doesn't depend on gender but you've made this into a gender battle by your remarks regarding single mothers.

    I understand you've had a tough time yourself but making single mothers out to be the enemy does you no favours - plenty of single mothers have been treated abysmally by their exes. Surely it's the good parents v the bad parents and gender doesn't come into it?


    I bet you'll quote me again without referring to what my central point was though, so I know I'm wasting my time here.


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    #119
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Did Eve_Dublin close her account because of this thread?


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    #120
    BubbleBalls
    Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭BubbleBalls


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Did Eve_Dublin close her account because of this thread?
    Can't say I'm surprised if she did. This thread turned ugly some time ago. Unsubscribing.


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    #121
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Did Eve_Dublin close her account because of this thread?

    I wouldn't blame her. She took a fair bit of character assassination.

    Probably the straw the broke the camel's back.


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