A great Alfa below a grand, can it be done?

biko

Right so I've been looking at Saabs and Volvos for a while but then I thought, why not try an Alfa? I was limiting myself to 2K but saw tons of Alfas for peanuts and though feck it, I'll go below 1K and spend the rest on maintenance.

With Alfas I am told it's all in the maintenance and number of owners. What you want is a loving owner that has been keeping up belt changes and oil services.
Since not many ads mention it, it's very likely the first thing needed is a new timing belt @ 450 euro incl labour or so.

Looking at donedeal filtering by price. Out of 212 cars 71 ads are below 1000.
Now, I'm sure there's a lot of people trying to get rid of bad cars, hence the low prices. But is there a hidden gem out there?

These sound pretty good. They doesn't mention mileage so it's hard to know right off the bat if it will need a new belt.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4418682
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4548168

Cereal Number

You couldnt get a great alfa period.

Stheno

Decent spec alright for the car.

No mention of the timing belt variator, nothing about the suspension either or service history.

Are you thinking of going to take a look?

Stheno

Cereal Number wrote: »

You couldnt get a great alfa period.

Any suggestions as to why?

Ded_Zebra

Cereal Number wrote: »

You couldnt get a great alfa period.

:rolleyes:

Borderfox

Very nice, I had the very same model and spec in silver. Used a lot of oil and mpg in the city was terrible. Still loved it :-)

Cereal Number

Stheno wrote: »

Any suggestions as to why?

I was told they were scrap build?

mickdw

Cereal Number wrote: »

I was told they were scrap build?

Have you owned driven or sat in an alfa?

Stheno

Cereal Number wrote: »

I was told they were scrap build?

Ah right, not driven one so?

Biko, I think you could probably do better for the money.

Check these ones out, more detail, some with detail on tb etc. all I think the same engine as your ad.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4465487
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4561932
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4502519
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4564210
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4317650

There is a lovely GTA 2.5 going too, with a faulty injector though.

Stheno

Meant to say, I bought my 00 gtv for less than a grand, have put roughly 1250 into it over the past year and a half and it's a great car, so you might be onto a winner with that idea.

I just have to get rid of the dents and dinges on mine now

biko

I'm not afraid to get dirty sorting bits out but just want to start my ownership with the best possible car.

Cereal Number wrote: »

You couldnt get a great alfa period.

Damn I was hoping we'd get a few more constructive posts in before this stuff started...

How about this?
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4519823
at 97K it should be halfway down on its second timing belt.

Hybrid Conversion "6,2l on the road" I think this translates to "37 mpg"
New t-belt kit and water pump
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4352254
Alas it's 1100 euro so doesn't really fit the premise, on the other hand a 700 euro car with t-belt cost added means almost 1200.

Stheno

biko wrote: »

I'm not afraid to get dirty sorting bits out but just want to start my ownership with the best possible car.


Damn I was hoping we'd get a few more constructive posts in before this stuff started...

Ignore him.
Phone the couple you've posted, and the five I have and shortlist out of those, along with any others that take your fancy.

Get as much detail as you can, shorten it down to those you want to test drive.

There's a few good threads here on what to look for if you do a search

They are lovely cars, and great fun to drive if you get the right one

Nonoperational

I think these days to get a good Alfa, your looking at €800 or so to buy it, then another €800 or so on ARB bushes, top wishbones, timing belt, oil and filter.

Then you could have a great car.

biko

Stheno wrote: »

There's a few good threads here on what to look for if you do a search

Thanks, I've read up on it and narrowed the critical stuff down so have a short list on what to check.

Nonoperational wrote: »

I think these days to get a good Alfa, your looking at €800 or so to buy it, then another €800 or so on ARB bushes, top wishbones, timing belt, oil and filter.
Then you could have a great car.

Aye, this is exactly my approach.

dgt

Don't feed the troll! :pac:

Short answer yes you can

Longer answer, yes you will need to trawl through many cars and decide what's the best value and more importantly what's been cared for. I have a 166 that cost less than a service for it would have cost from a garage :eek: the garage that sold it to me knew the car well and guaranteed its past was sound. I found various reciepts in the car too. It did have usual 166 niggles (knackered wheel bearing, leaky rad, suspension shot) and was filthy inside but with the right time and parts I could have that car right in no time it's too expensive for me to run as a daily at the moment though

Alfas do need more attention than normal, keep on top of the oil: they take a swig every few hundred miles. If one likes spirited driving, stick in some 10w60. Keep on top of suspension and steering components too and you won't go too far wrong

I got driving 166mans 156 and its a damn sweet car to go :cool: so don't be worrying about smaller engined Alfas, they're goers

alias no.9

Plan to replace the timing belt straight away and variator too if it's noisey, knowing when it was done last is some comfort but before that on a ~10 year old car doesn't really matter it resets to time 0 with very change.
Suspension wise, a recent NCT would give some confidence, consider polyurethane bushes, powerflex are highly regarded.

Soarer

Tonight on Top Gear....

Anan1

We sold our owned from new 130k miles with FSH 156 2.0TS Lusso a couple of years back for €800, so yes, it can be done. You'll likely need patience, though.

coconutpie

I sold my 1999 gtv last year for about €1500 because I needed lower running costs on petrol and tax but it was a gorgeous car for the money with nothing needing doing.
The car was up for sale, on donedeal, a few weeks back for less than 1,000 with a new timing belt kit ready to install.
There are definitely bargains out there and I'll be searching one out once my finances are a little healthier because Alfas are a dream to drive.

Redisle

alias no.9 wrote: »

Plan to replace the timing belt straight away and variator too if it's noisey, knowing when it was done last is some comfort but before that on a ~10 year old car doesn't really matter it resets to time 0 with very change.
Suspension wise, a recent NCT would give some confidence, consider polyurethane bushes, powerflex are highly regarded.

I bought a 156 before Christmas thinking it was in very good shape. It passed the NCT the day I bought it (condition of sale) so I assumed suspension etc would be fine. Have since had it pointed out to me that the FL Wishbone balljoint is shot [probably me and a pothole though] and the two rear transverse arms have a good bit of play in the bushings.. somehow completely missed by the NCT. Now it's got a check engine light relating to a problem with the camshaft sensor which is a belt off job so yeah.. not such a good car after all I guess. I payed way too much, €1570. It was just down the road and I *really* wanted to change car at the time. I wouldn't have minded so much if I had only payed <1000. Can't really afford to fix the camshaft sensor atm so just gonna have to live with random 3k rpm limitations for the moment.

I guess the only redeeming part of the price I payed is that it came with a set of 17" selespeed alloys which are pretty rare so hopefully worth a bit if I sell them on. I'm running on 16" teledials now.

Worth noting too that it may be possible to repair the variator rather than replace it outright. You can get a kit consisting of a nylon washer and a spring. The noise is caused by wear of this nylon washer, think it's related to oil circulation as often you just get a tiny bit of noise at startup then it stops. I think it's also possible to do the timing belt yourself at least on the 1.6 [no balance belt] if you get the cam locking tools and a TDC guage. It's something I wouldn't mind trying on a practice/scrap car at least though before I'd attempt it on a daily driver. You also need a special tool if you need to remove the variator.

Overall though it's still a very nice car to drive & there is a really lovely sound off the engine once it's not limiting me to 3k

pcardin

Yes, you can find a nice Alfa Romeo under 1k. I would suggest 166 over 146 or 156 though.

Matt Simis

pcardin wrote: »

Yes, you can find a nice Alfa Romeo under 1k. I would suggest 166 over 146 or 156 though.

Yes this is probably a better bet. The 156, especially the Diesel eats front suspension bushes. If you can find one that a PO polybushed already, buy it!

Nonoperational

Redisle wrote: »

I bought a 156 before Christmas thinking it was in very good shape. It passed the NCT the day I bought it (condition of sale) so I assumed suspension etc would be fine. Have since had it pointed out to me that the FL Wishbone balljoint is shot [probably me and a pothole though] and the two rear transverse arms have a good bit of play in the bushings.. somehow completely missed by the NCT. Now it's got a check engine light relating to a problem with the camshaft sensor which is a belt off job so yeah.. not such a good car after all I guess. I payed way too much, €1570. It was just down the road and I *really* wanted to change car at the time. I wouldn't have minded so much if I had only payed <1000. Can't really afford to fix the camshaft sensor atm so just gonna have to live with random 3k rpm limitations for the moment.

I guess the only redeeming part of the price I payed is that it came with a set of 17" selespeed alloys which are pretty rare so hopefully worth a bit if I sell them on. I'm running on 16" teledials now.

Worth noting too that it may be possible to repair the variator rather than replace it outright. You can get a kit consisting of a nylon washer and a spring. The noise is caused by wear of this nylon washer, think it's related to oil circulation as often you just get a tiny bit of noise at startup then it stops. I think it's also possible to do the timing belt yourself at least on the 1.6 [no balance belt] if you get the cam locking tools and a TDC guage. It's something I wouldn't mind trying on a practice/scrap car at least though before I'd attempt it on a daily driver. You also need a special tool if you need to remove the variator.

Overall though it's still a very nice car to drive & there is a really lovely sound off the engine once it's not limiting me to 3k

You sure it's not the MAF?

Redisle

Nonoperational wrote: »

You sure it's not the MAF?

Yeah. I have read the code. Rpm limitation can indeed be caused by maf but also cam sensor unfortunately

Celly Smunt

I miss my alfa .It was like my own grumpy teenager always getting in trouble,but I stilled love it to bits.

cjt156

Redisle wrote: »

Yeah. I have read the code. Rpm limitation can indeed be caused by maf but also cam sensor unfortunately

Cam sensor is gone on mine these past 2 years - went just after my last Timing Belt change :rolleyes:
Doesn't effect the engine performance whatsoever on mine - takes an extra couple of turns to start. Doesn't get a mention at NCT time either, so it can stay dead until the next belt change.
170k miles and still sweet as a nut - except it needs top wishbones again...:(

Redisle

cjt156 wrote: »

Cam sensor is gone on mine these past 2 years - went just after my last Timing Belt change :rolleyes:
Doesn't effect the engine performance whatsoever on mine - takes an extra couple of turns to start. Doesn't get a mention at NCT time either, so it can stay dead until the next belt change.
170k miles and still sweet as a nut - except it needs top wishbones again...:(

Did you get it done at a normal indie? I think the main cause of failure is damaging the sensor or the sensor ring on the cam pulley during belt change. This is especially likely if the right cam locking tools weren't used. It was no coincidence that you got that failure right after the belt! Should have brought it straight back.

It wouldn't bother me either but it seems to be randomly limiting me to 3k every 2nd or 3rd time I drive it! Strangest thing is that on very cold mornings it works perfectly & the warning light even goes out! Ah Alfas...

cjt156

Redisle wrote: »

Did you get it done at a normal indie?

I did it at a local chap who's done mine 3 times before; I say straight after but it was a few months later, possibly related but at 150k miles its something to expect. Once I figured out it wasn't going to cause me any hassle I put on the long finger.

I did used to get your type of symptom when my MAF died. Started with a split in the air intake- the bendy bit. Replaced that but the damage was done and the MAF died within a few weeks. Fine till about 3.5k revs then no power inless you floored it to get through the dead spot.
Cheaper alternative MAF (Opel Corsa one is the same for some engines) and back in business.

Johnniep

If you have an obd cable, download the free version of multiecuscan to check for any errors. Very handy bit of kit......Has saved me a fortune on my 147 and 166.

bladespin

Cereal Number wrote: »

I was told they were scrap build?

The moon is made of cheese too!

RoundyMooney

I still have fond memories of my 156, even though it was a lemon (and only a year old when I got it!)

At the time, the famous variator issues, belts, bonnet catches and suspension creaks were just coming to light, and I for one wasn't aware of them.

Now tbh, with all the knowledge that's out there, and a good independent at your back, like Gerry Campbell in Dublin-they'd be an excellent choice for a petrol head that understands their limitations and is prepared to budget accordingly.

The trick is to find one that isn't circling the plughole of neglect. Not easy.

166man

Most people have already said it but it's finding a clean one that's the difficult part these days as many have been neglected.

However I have a 2001 156 1.6 and can safely say I have neglected it myself a little recently due to other situations but am in the process of getting it back to flying form. My car even with suspension issues is really a dream to drive. When she goes, she really goes and that's only the 1.6. Keep an eye on the oil level though, they like a drink.

Front suspension are a weak point as are some parts of the rear suspension. Check if the spark plugs were changed every 60k miles, they are pricey to buy though seeing as you need 8 of them. Silly things went on mine too like the drivers door handle sticks sometimes with no real fix to it. I just give it welly and it opens away.

Once you drive one I reckon you'll really really like them. Budget properly each year for maintaining and running it and assuming you don't buy a lemon it should give you years of reliable fun driving.

I'm looking at a V6 at the moment and doing the sums for myself...;)

Pottler

biko wrote: »

I'm not afraid to get dirty sorting bits out but just want to start my ownership with the best possible car.


Damn I was hoping we'd get a few more constructive posts in before this stuff started...

How about this?
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4519823
at 97K it should be halfway down on its second timing belt.

Hybrid Conversion "6,2l on the road" I think this translates to "37 mpg"
New t-belt kit and water pump
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4352254
Alas it's 1100 euro so doesn't really fit the premise, on the other hand a 700 euro car with t-belt cost added means almost 1200.

Lordy, it's like listening to a Bob Dylan fan loftily condescending to the fans of S-Club 7. You can plan all you like Biko, when it cacks itself in a big, oily, expensive way, on the morning you're supposed to be at an important event you'll regret the decision to go over to the ""cool" side of the road.
"Beautiful looking, wonderful handling car, yours for less than a grand." Any reason they are so cheap, perchance??:pac:

166man

Pottler wrote: »

Lordy, it's like listening to a Bob Dylan fan loftily condescending to the fans of S-Club 7. You can plan all you like Biko, when it cacks itself in a big, oily, expensive way, on the morning you're supposed to be at an important event you'll regret the decision to go over to the ""cool" side of the road.
"Beautiful looking, wonderful handling car, yours for less than a grand." Any reason they are so cheap, perchance??:pac:

They're cheap because the Irish can't maintain a car to save sh1t, hence the love affair with Toyota's.

166man

166man wrote: »

They're cheap because the Irish can't maintain a car to save sh1t, hence the love affair with Toyota's.

Bit of a generalisation to be fair, the vast majority of people I know get their cars serviced to either the recommended mileage interval or annually, that's including a fair few people on the dole too.

Old Alfas are cheap as they often need stuff to be replaced that doesn't fail as often or as regularly on many other cars, thus making them less than attractive ownership propositions.

They don't handle as well as the fan bois claim either.

Pottler

166man wrote: »

They're cheap because the Irish can't maintain a car to save sh1t, hence the love affair with Toyota's.

When in Rome.......and they're not just "needy" in the maintenance department, they're badly built, badly designed, but very stylish. I see the attraction, I really do, but you need to ask yourself, "do I need the hassle?". Personally, I don't.

discombobulate

Best of luck if you go for it OP. I can't imagine not driving an Alfa now. As was said already if your in the Dublin area Gerry in Ti Auto's is your man for the servicing. Best garage i've ever dealt with anyway by far.

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

Bit of a generalisation to be fair, the vast majority of people I know get their cars serviced to either the recommended mileage interval or annually, that's including a fair few people on the dole too.

Old Alfas are cheap as they often need stuff to be replaced that doesn't fail as often or as regularly on many other cars, thus making them less than attractive ownership propositions.

They don't handle as well as the fan bois claim either.

Plenty of generalisations around these parts too. Often needing new parts is part of the reason they are so cheap but it's not the main one. The main reason they're cheap is because they have a sh1t rep here, the question you have to ask yourself is why they have a sh1t reputation here and IMO the reason for that is that many of them didn't get the maintenance they would have needed.

Granted, they aren't the best built in the world and have their faults, but if you mind them more than say a Toyota Eventless then there's no reason to say why they shouldn't be as reliable.

Funnily enough I have never heard someone claim an Alfa 156 didn't handle well, I can understand that though, they handle beautifully.

Pottler wrote: »

When in Rome.......and they're not just "needy" in the maintenance department, they're badly built, badly designed, but very stylish. I see the attraction, I really do, but you need to ask yourself, "do I need the hassle?". Personally, I don't.

I don't mind if they're needy. I'm happy to maintain them because cars and all related things are my hobby and interest, they are far from just a mode of transport, that's the key difference here.

If you don't need the hassle Pottler, then don't buy one, plenty more for myself and others!

biko

I'd rather not if this thread went down the same path as many similar before.
Many cars, like Alfa, Saab or Rover, have their quirks and people say not to buy them based on some rep.
But for the owners they are somehow worth it.
I may or may not buy an Alfa but I will not base my decision on comments from people that haven't owned one.


Now, how about this? The paint is lovely.
Can a good paint indicate that the car has been cared for? It's not far away so might swing past this weekend to view and check engine, t-belt etc.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4519823

Pottler

166man wrote: »

I don't mind if they're needy. I'm happy to maintain them because cars and all related things are my hobby and interest, they are far from just a mode of transport, that's the key difference here.

If you don't need the hassle Pottler, then don't buy one, plenty more for myself and others!

I'm not being even an ickle bit schnide, I think they are one of the most beautiful marques on the road, but they are also a mechanics dream. You'll not meet too many rich Toyota mechanics, but I know a couple of loaded Alfa specialists:pac:

biko

Oh, and is there any mechanic in Galway that know their Alfas? It's be good to shoot the breeze a bit and maybe get a few pointers.

I've been looking at
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/republic-of-ireland/
but there isn't much chat about Galway.

166man

Pottler wrote: »

I'm not being even an ickle bit schnide, I think they are one of the most beautiful marques on the road, but they are also a mechanics dream. You'll not meet too many rich Toyota mechanics, but I know a couple of loaded Alfa specialists:pac:

Totes agree....:D

Looks like a nice Motor Biko, a good look over will reveal all though! 1.8TS is more than enough too!

I also wouldn't base your views on those that haven't owned one. You can't tell much about a car from driving down the road!

Stheno

biko wrote: »

I'd rather not if this thread went down the same path as many similar before.
Many cars, like Alfa, Saab or Rover, have their quirks and people say not to buy them based on some rep.
But for the owners they are somehow worth it.
I may or may not buy an Alfa but I will not base my decision on comments from people that haven't owned one.


Now, how about this? The paint is lovely.
Can a good paint indicate that the car has been cared for? It's not far away so might swing past this weekend to view and check engine, t-belt etc.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4519823[/IMG]

I'd say that's worth a look OP

biko wrote: »

Oh, and is there any mechanic in Galway that know their Alfas? It's be good to shoot the breeze a bit and maybe get a few pointers.

I've been looking at
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/republic-of-ireland/
but there isn't much chat about Galway.

I'm fairly certain there was a thread on here in the past week about alfa specialists in Galway?

dgt

biko wrote: »

Now, how about this? The paint is lovely.
Can a good paint indicate that the car has been cared for? It's not far away so might swing past this weekend to view and check engine, t-belt etc.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4519823
http://photos2.donedeal.ie/View2-17272930.jpeg

Oh those seats!!!! :cool:

166man

dgt wrote: »

Oh those seats!!!! :cool:

This the doorcards are the Sportivo trim though...:o

Redisle

I'd say it's worth a look OP. The red does tend to fade though as per usual and it may have been recently washed in the photos. It also looks to be sitting very low, there is usually a visible gap above the tyre at least in the front there so it might be lowered (or have non-standard tyre size - they should be 205/55/16). That gap is going to make it hard to check for play in the front wishbones so you might want to jack it up. Again best if you jack it up but check the rear wheels with a 9-3 grip as there could be play in the rear transverse arms.

166man wrote: »

This the doorcards are the Sportivo trim though...:o

Yup, I wish people wouldn't be so lazy!

At least that's the more recent leather that was retrofitted. It should have the airbags built into the seat so have a look under the seat for the wires op.

166man wrote: »

Silly things went on mine too like the drivers door handle sticks sometimes with no real fix to it. I just give it welly and it opens away.

I did a job on mine today. I took out the screw to the side that Alan suggested and blasted Silicone oil in there while pumping the thing and opening/closing the door. Seems to have sorted it for now! I was having fun giving the handle a smack to make the thing pop though

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

...........

They don't handle as well as the fan bois claim either.

166man wrote: »

.............

Funnily enough I have never heard someone claim an Alfa 156 didn't handle well, I can understand that though, they handle beautifully.



I don't mind if they're needy. I'm happy to maintain them because cars and all related things are my hobby and interest, they are far from just a mode of transport, that's the key difference here.............

I didn't say they didn't handle well

Ironically enough despite you claiming to be happy to maintain them you actually haven't bothered to maintain your own

discombobulate

biko wrote: »

Oh, and is there any mechanic in Galway that know their Alfas? It's be good to shoot the breeze a bit and maybe get a few pointers.

I've been looking at
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/republic-of-ireland/
but there isn't much chat about Galway.

Didn't look very hard

166man

@RJ, I won't reply to your post/comment about my car. Biko came on looking for advice so advice is what I'm going to give him, not a petty argument and one that has been done many times before.

Apologies Biko.

Dilbert75

If you decide to go back to your original 2k budget, this one could be worth a look - freshly belted, serviced & NCT'd.

dgt

DO IT!



Or this...