Where to report employer who frauds tax and welfare

Baloo666

Hello, I worked for someone who employs people part-time officially
- they are registered and have contract and payslips for 20 hours, but employees (almost 15 workers) work more hours (40 and more) so the other part of their work is illegal.

Some claimed medical cards as they know about the procedure and are happy with it.
There are also illegal immigrants employed from outside the EU.
Is that the case for Welfare or Revenue, or both?
Are they likely to really check that or just leave it, as I heard it is very common for restaurants and small places operate this way. I'm afraid it could be general consent - I talked to many people in town and many of them work this way - some hours are registered and some not.
This way lots of money are stolen from the State and in times of crisis I believe there it should be more efficiently controlled.

ABajaninCork

Call Revenue first I would imagine.

tatli_lokma

Whilst I do agree with you in principle that it is fraud personally I would find it hard to report my co-workers who are illegal knowing that as a result they will end up with no means of income and will possibly end up being deported. Many immigrants working illegally are not doing so out of any great desire to break the law but out of a lack of choice...without good language skills or experience they can't get great jobs. Without an Irish referee it can be very difficult for non-nationals to get jobs. And contrary to popular belief they are not all getting heaps of social welfare hand outs.

The SW cheats I would have no qualms about ratting out...they are committing fraud by choice. But the immigrant workers are a different case. You might even find they get paid less than others.

So if there are any immigrant workers you like and have time for, maybe help them by acting as a referee or something and helping them get the correct visa or permit before you pull the plug.

Baloo666

I agree with you, people are people, and I don't want just to go and report everybody.
I only hold a grudge against the employer as I am an immigrant as well, but from EU country. I worked in Ireland for a short time, too short to be elligible for any help, and I was sacked just like that, kicked out like a dog. No, I wish I was a dog, because then I would get a house and care or at least a kennel to go to.
Now I have no money, no social, no help. I cannot come back to my homecountry as there is even worse situation than here with jobs. My only tiny financial resources are ending and nobody cares that I will have to live literally on the street in a moment. I walk with my cvs everywhere, everyday.
And still I have to be loyal to my boss? He drives Mercedes 2012, owns three buildings in the city centre.
Still, he cheats and thinks he is better and treats people like dirt.

tony81

Little Ted wrote: »

Many immigrants working illegally are not doing so out of any great desire to break the law but out of a lack of choice...without good language skills or experience they can't get great jobs.

These immigrant workers are milking the system. They're working full-time in jobs Irish people could be working, while claiming benefits too. Good riddance to them if they get deported.

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

These immigrant workers are milking the system. They're working full-time in jobs Irish people could be working, while claiming benefits too. Good riddance to them if they get deported.

because you know every non-national in the country, do you? Not every non-national is a social welfare fraudster. Stop reading red top rag newspapers and pointing the finger at an easy target.

ABajaninCork

tony81 wrote: »

These immigrant workers are milking the system. They're working full-time in jobs Irish people could be working, while claiming benefits too. Good riddance to them if they get deported.

As a non-national, I can tell you the following:

• I certainly am NOT milking the system as you elegantly put it.
• I most certainly am NOT working a full-time job (it's not for the want of trying though!)
• I AM however claiming benefits. Of course, you do know that Welfare demand proof of stamps paid within the EU (i.e a P45/P60) and a means test before they pay you a penny? I thought not...

Before you make such ignorant remarks, I suggest you read up a little on the subject and educate yourself.

another question

Why don't you threathen him that you will report him if he doesn't find you another job?

dejopadu

Tony isnt talking about every immigrant worker, he is talking about the one's who have a certain type of visa(probably a student visa) which allows them to work for 20 HOURS PER WEEK & who are clearly, all be it with the help of their employer, abusing that visa condition.


I think the OP should definitaly report this employer, as he said himself, he was sacked without warning & treated like a dog by this employer.....how many other workers were treated like this before you OP, & how many more will find out the hard way like you did ??

runawaybishop

Little Ted wrote: »

because you know every non-national in the country, do you? Not every non-national is a social welfare fraudster. Stop reading red top rag newspapers and pointing the finger at an easy target.

Not every non national, the ones referred to in the OP along with the Irish people scamming SW.

RainyDay

Contact NERA about the employer http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/ - they'll sort him out.

tatli_lokma

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not every non national, the ones referred to in the OP along with the Irish people scamming SW.

OP never said anything about the immigrant workers also claiming SW. They mentioned staff choosing to be in cahoots with the employer and work and claim benefits and then seperately mentions that there are ALSO illegal immigrants. And if they are on student visas they wouldn't be entitled to any SW anyway.

relax carry on

Report the employer to Revenue. Revenue and the DSP have a joint taskforce to tackle what you describe. Your report can be made anonymously. Just ensure you provide asuch detail as possible. The more specifics the better.

tony81

tony81 wrote: »

These immigrant workers are milking the system. They're working full-time in jobs Irish people could be working, while claiming benefits too. Good riddance to them if they get deported.

Little Ted wrote: »

because you know every non-national in the country, do you? Not every non-national is a social welfare fraudster. Stop reading red top rag newspapers and pointing the finger at an easy target.

I said "these" workers, i.e. the workers the op is referring: getting cash in hand and claiming welfare.

I didn't say "every" non-national.

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

I said "these" workers, i.e. the workers the op is referring: getting cash in hand and claiming welfare.

I didn't say "every" non-national.

Read the OP again...it doesn't say anything about the immigrant workers being known to be on SW..it clearly says that there are workers choosing to work extra hours cash in hand as it allows them to claim SW and ALSO illegal immigrants. Nothing at all about the immigrants claiming.

Your comment about them taking IRISH peoples jobs tells us exactly what you mean...no point trying to pretend otherwise.

tony81

Little Ted wrote: »

Read the OP again...it doesn't say anything about the immigrant workers being known to be on SW..it clearly says that there are workers choosing to work extra hours cash in hand as it allows them to claim SW and ALSO illegal immigrants. Nothing at all about the immigrants claiming.

The op clearly mentioned medical cards.. last time I checked medical cards are means tested.. so if you get cash in hand and claim a medical card you are scamming the system.

Little Ted wrote: »

Your comment about them taking IRISH peoples jobs tells us exactly what you mean...no point trying to pretend otherwise.

Not going to lower myself to respond to this, other than to say someone who is fiddling the system to get supplementary income can work for a lower rate than someone who tries to do things above board.

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

The op clearly mentioned medical cards.. last time I checked medical cards are means tested...

Again....read the OP. They mention workers claiming benefits such as medical cards and *seperately* mentions that there are ALSO illegal immigrants. If you are an illegal you won't get benefits as you will not have valid status and won't have contributions to entitle you to SW. Only those with refugee status can claim benefits without the normal contributions. If they are on student visas and working extra hours, of course they shouldn't be doing that but they wouldn't also be getting medical cards or benefits.

Your experience of non-national workers is very skewed if you think it is that easy to get benefits as an immigrant. My own husband was waiting ages on his stamp 4 and was entitled to no benefits. We really struggled for a while and I'll be honest if someone had offered him cash in hand we would have seriously considered it.

Furthermore when he did get his stamp 4 despite excellent English, having decent qualifications and experience in his own country he couldn't get a job without Irish work experience or referees. At one point the only offer of work he was offered was cash in hand but they said they would give him a reference if he found something else. They were only offering to pay him a€5 p/hr but we were tempted I'll be honest. In the end a friend of the family was able to over him 2 mths legal work and thankfully as a result of Irish work experience and referees he shortly after got a decent permanent job.

And don't think our case is the exception as it's not.

tony81

Baloo666 wrote: »

Hello, I worked for someone who employs people part-time officially
- they are registered and have contract and payslips for 20 hours, but employees (almost 15 workers) work more hours (40 and more) so the other part of their work is illegal.

Some claimed medical cards as they know about the procedure and are happy with it.

Little Ted wrote: »

Again....read the OP. They mention workers claiming benefits such as medical cards and *seperately* mentions that there are ALSO illegal immigrants. .

READ THE OP'S POST AGAIN! Then read my replies. You'll see they're focused on illegal working arrangements and welfare claims of immigrants with work permits.

You're really letting yourself down.

runawaybishop

Little Ted wrote: »

Again....read the OP.

Move on. Tony has already clarified what he meant, you misunderstood him.

tatli_lokma

Baloo666 wrote: »

- they are registered and have contract and payslips for 20 hours, but employees (almost 15 workers) work more hours (40 and more) so the other part of their work is illegal.

Some claimed medical cards as they know about the procedure and are happy with it.
There are also illegal immigrants employed from outside the EU.

tony81 wrote: »

READ THE OP'S POST AGAIN! Then read my replies. You'll see they're focused on illegal working arrangements and welfare claims of immigrants with work permits.

You're really letting yourself down.

Not letting myself down at all, you are just trying to avoid being labelled a xenophobe and not making a very good job of it. The OP clearly distinguishes between some people claiming medical cards and ALSO immigrants working illegally. Your own prejudices are leading you to assume that the illegal immigrants are also claiming benefit, when in reality that is not very likely as the chances of getting welfare when you are not legally allowed to stay in the country are VERY slim unless you have refugee status (in which case you are not an illegal). the chances of getting medical cards or other allowances when on a student visa are also very very slim.

runawaybishop wrote: »

Move on. Tony has already clarified what he meant, you misunderstood him.

Nice of you to speak for him! I don't believe I misunderstood - the comment about taking Irish jobs is pretty easy to understand. And the more he comments the more he does indeed clarify...and such clarifications only re-inforce my understanding of his comments and not to his favour.

runawaybishop

Little Ted wrote: »

Nice of you to speak for him! I don't believe I misunderstood - the comment about taking Irish jobs is pretty easy to understand. And the more he comments the more he does indeed clarify...and such clarifications only re-inforce my understanding of his comments and not to his favour.

Let me try a different tact then. You are boring, move on.

tatli_lokma

ditto. After you....

(great countr argument though! )

tony81

Little Ted wrote: »

Your own prejudices are leading you to assume that the illegal immigrants are also claiming benefit

Go away!

tatli_lokma

again, brilliant comeback.

I'll go where I please thank you very much. Although you are more than welcome to bow out yourself.

tony81

All you're doing is mudslinging and dragging this thread off-topic.

OK, please quote exactly what I said that made your write "Your own prejudices are leading you to assume that the illegal immigrants are also claiming benefit"?

Littlehorny

The op has lost his job, is not entitled to social welfare and is running out of money, he also did not state why he was sacked. Don't know his personal situation but should he not be buying a ticket home if it didnt work out for him here?

tatli_lokma

Baloo666 wrote: »

I agree with you, people are people, and I don't want just to go and report everybody.
I only hold a grudge against the employer as I am an immigrant as well, but from EU country. I worked in Ireland for a short time, too short to be elligible for any help, and I was sacked just like that, kicked out like a dog. No, I wish I was a dog, because then I would get a house and care or at least a kennel to go to.
Now I have no money, no social, no help. I cannot come back to my homecountry as there is even worse situation than here with jobs. My only tiny financial resources are ending and nobody cares that I will have to live literally on the street in a moment. I walk with my cvs everywhere, everyday.
And still I have to be loyal to my boss? He drives Mercedes 2012, owns three buildings in the city centre.
Still, he cheats and thinks he is better and treats people like dirt.

Op I am very sorry to hear of your situation. If you are EU you may be entitled to benefits or at least assistance. Did you actually contact SW or are you assuming? If you worked in the EU previously then you may be able to use this work towards your contributions. Even if you are not entitled to benefits due to the amount of time you worked, then you may be able to get some assistance. Have you visited the Community Welfare officer in your area? They may be able to help.

Also, perhaps contact charities like the St Vincent De Paul and Alone as if you have nowhere to stay you really need to get someone to help you out.

The boss is absolutely a ****, taking advantage of people's circumstances and obviously arrogant and unconcerned with the law. The problem is, if you report him others may end up in your situation - it is a tricky one to deal with. But ultimately, he is taking advantage of people's situations in order to avoid paying taxes and PRSI which is blatant exploitation.

You can go to NERA to report the workpractices - if you are prepared to go on the record and give a statement they will probably investigate him and carry out an audit. If what you say is true this will not go well for him, but be prepared that eventhough some people are being exploited and others are in cahoots with him in the fraud, none of them will thank you for it. So it all comes down to wheter you hate him enough to potentially hurt people who might be in a similar situation as yourself.

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

All you're doing is mudslinging and dragging this thread off-topic.

OK, please quote exactly what I said that made your write "Your own prejudices are leading you to assume that the illegal immigrants are also claiming benefit"?

Your comments about Irish jobs (as opposed to jobs). Your comments about the illegals claiming benefits such as a medical card and as such deserving to be deported.

OP clearly was not claiming benefits as is not entitled to them, so you can't assume that all the workers are agreeing to the work practices in order to defraud the system. they said some are claiming medical cards, not all. They said there are also illegals. You then made comments about the immigrants working and claiming benefits. Despite the fact that an illegal cannot claim benefits! OP said about 15 of the workers work extra hours - s/he didn't say they all do and s/he didn't say that the immigrants are specifically the ones doing this.

tony81

Baloo666 wrote: »

Now I have no money, no social, no help. I cannot come back to my homecountry as there is even worse situation than here with jobs. My only tiny financial resources are ending and nobody cares that I will have to live literally on the street in a moment.

Sorry it didn't work out. However, why would anyone here care about you? I'm Irish and the people who do care about me (I'd like to think) are family and friends, even community in terms of people I did a good turn for, or previous employers, etc.

You obviously risked a lot to come to Ireland and it didn't work out. Too bad.

tony81

Little Ted wrote: »

Your comments about Irish jobs (as opposed to jobs). Your comments about the illegals claiming benefits such as a medical card and as such deserving to be deported.

I said quote, not lie and twist my words.. that bit in bold, I made no reference to illegal immigrants. My god, you're so stubborn.

Little Ted wrote: »

OP clearly was not claiming benefits as is not entitled to them, so you can't assume that all the workers are agreeing to the work practices in order to defraud the system. they said some are claiming medical cards, not all. They said there are also illegals. You then made comments about the immigrants working and claiming benefits. Despite the fact that an illegal cannot claim benefits! OP said about 15 of the workers work extra hours - s/he didn't say they all do and s/he didn't say that the immigrants are specifically the ones doing this.

Bla bla bla.. not even going to read that horses*it. You're going on my blocked list.

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

You're going on my blocked list.

whoo-hooo!

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

These immigrant workers are milking the system. They're working full-time in jobs Irish people could be working, while claiming benefits too. Good riddance to them if they get deported.

tony81 wrote: »

I said quote, not lie and twist my words.. that bit in bold, I made no reference to illegal immigrants. My god, you're so stubborn. .

Above when you said 'these' it was in direct reply to a post about illegal immigrants. So let me get this right, when you said 'these' (i.e the ones mentioned in the post you quoted) you didn't really mean "these" you meant just general immigrants, not illegals?? oh ok, that's grand so. clear as mud!

The actual sentence about "jobs Irish people could be working" is the one I take most offence to. Had you said "jobs other people could be working" I wouldn't have an issue, but to specify that Irish people should have more of a right to a job than another nationality is repugnant to me. And if that makes me stubborn, then I'm happy to be stubborn.

RainyDay

Little Ted wrote: »

So it all comes down to wheter you hate him enough to potentially hurt people who might be in a similar situation as yourself.

Not true. It all comes down to whether you have enough respect for the law, and for the other law-abiding businesses that he is undercutting.

tony81

RainyDay wrote: »

Not true. It all comes down to whether you have enough respect for the law, and for the other law-abiding businesses that he is undercutting.

I think Little Ted has more loyalty to other immigrants than Irish law.

tatli_lokma

tony81 wrote: »

I think Little Ted has more loyalty to other immigrants than Irish law.

there you go again with your unsubstantiated assumptions. I have respect for the law - to a point, but the law is not always right, and a healthy dose of questioning and interrogation of legal practice is no bad thing. Otherwise no law would ever be changed.

And 'other' immigrants? that implies I am an immigrant, which I am not. Another misfounded assumption. I'm Irish, but not always proud to be given the attitudes many have towards other nationalities.

My loyalty tends to be to people and humankind, which may be an unpleasant concept to you, but one I hold nonetheless.

BTW - am I not blocked yet????

dejopadu

Little Ted wrote: »

The actual sentence about "jobs Irish people could be working" is the one I take most offence to. Had you said "jobs other people could be working" I wouldn't have an issue, but to specify that Irish people should have more of a right to a job than another nationality is repugnant to me. And if that makes me stubborn, then I'm happy to be stubborn.

Your an idiot !!!! & very very stubborn

tatli_lokma

I don't disagree that I am stubborn. When I feel that people are being prejudiced towards non-nationals I tend to get stubborn about that. If that makes me a bad person to you I don't care.

I also don't see the point you are making by highlighting my words in red. Care to elaborate?

Mrs OBumble

Littlehorny wrote: »

The op has lost his job, is not entitled to social welfare and is running out of money, he also did not state why he was sacked. Don't know his personal situation but should he not be buying a ticket home if it didnt work out for him here?

Do you also believe that every Irish person who becomes unemployed while they're in the UK shoudl be buying a ticket home?

Not to mention all the Irish who are illegal aliens (politely referred to as "undocumented", but really just overstayers) in the US. Do you really think they should be deported immediately?

tatli_lokma

And every person from outside of Dublin needs to leave when they loose their jobs and go back to their own county and stop taking the jobs of that a Dublin native could do! Local jobs for local people!!!!

Annasopra

tony81 wrote: »

why would anyone here care about you?

Why wouldn't they?

Littlehorny

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you also believe that every Irish person who becomes unemployed while they're in the UK shoudl be buying a ticket home?

Not to mention all the Irish who are illegal aliens (politely referred to as "undocumented", but really just overstayers) in the US. Do you really think they should be deported immediately?

I never said anything about deporting anybody, the op moved over here looking for work, it hasnt worked out for him, thats life. If there is nothing for him here he should go home.
With the recession having a firm grip on the country, what is it that attracted him to come here in the first place?

tatli_lokma

mango salsa wrote: »

Why wouldn't they?

because we Irish don't care about foreigners who come over here, take our jobs and swindle our social welfare system. Obviously! In fact we don't even care about people outside of our circle of family and friends. All those people working with SVP/ Alone/ Simon - they're just pretending to care!

Toasterspark

I'm glad we're all focusing on the OP's problem, and not just having unrelated debate that doesn't help the person that asked the questions.

What sort of supports would the whistleblower get in this situation? Or are you cutting the ladder from underneath yourself by reporting the fraud?

tatli_lokma

Toasterspark wrote: »

I'm glad we're all focusing on the OP's problem, and not just having unrelated debate that doesn't help the person that asked the questions.

What sort of supports would the whistleblower get in this situation? Or are you cutting the ladder from underneath yourself by reporting the fraud?

Op has already been sacked, so no cutting the ladder by reporting. I have already given some suggestions to OP in regards to seeking assistance from some of the various SW departments such as the CWO and mentioned they could possibly contact Alone or SVP.

Sorry that the thread has gone off topic, I just find it hard not to speak up when people champion the 'taking irish jobs' viewpoint and maintain that immigrants who work illegally or illegal immigrants get what they deserve. Sorry if that comes across as a bit of a crusade, but it's one of the things that really winds me up when I hear it.

brokenarms

I would report the company to the revenue and the social welfare.

Here is a link where you can report anonymously to the welfare system. I suggest you do it as we are paying for these people.

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx

This is a link to revenue fraud.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/contact/investigations-prosecutions-division.html

There is far to much of this going on and its a drag on our economy.

Regardless of their residence status.

Why should I have to pay tax, USC psri and some fecker is dodging it and scamming the welfare system into the bargain.

Both employer and employee should get it in the neck.

If citizens or immigrants alike don't like the system then they can get a plane at the nearest airport.

Baloo666

Just to keep you up to date - I was sacked with a text message, the boss didn't even speak to me. The text was sent by my colleague from work and she also said "your P60 and P45 are to be collected in the shop".
I went there and discovered that the boss had also prepared all my missing payslips. However, when I looked through the payslips I realised that the boss registered me 9 weeks after I actually stareted working for him. So I worked for almost 2 months without any PRSI nor taxes deducted. Also, the amount on payslips was much lower than I actually received - all the wages were paid in cash in little envelopes - without even siging the wage list. I used to get the money just looking under the counter as this is where the money was left for us.
I contacted Citizen Information and they advised me to speak to the boss and ask for the missing payslips. I did that, but when I went into the restaurant (the boss owns the restaurant and the grocery store next to it - I was working in the store), the boss left, I was told he was not there. So I wrote him a letter asking for the missing payslips, and left the letter with the restaurant manager.
After about 15 minutes I got a phonecall from the boss saying that I was on a "trial" before being registered and if I want to sue him I may do so as he is not afraid, "he has been to court many times" - these are the exact words.
Where do I go now, what to do? I don't have money for the lawyer.

Baloo666

I decided to go to revenue and say it all as i am fed up with all that cheating and looking down on people. I came to this country to have my PRSI contributions paid, and work towards my retirement pension. Now I am missing 9 contributions just because somebody wants to get rich quickly. In my life I have never claimed any benefits, nor allowances, always worked hard, I worked for 20 years altogether, and just wanted to work for 10 more in Ireland to have only minimal even the lowest pension when I get older. I am now 47 and I am so frustrated with the system here.

RainyDay

Baloo666 wrote: »

Where do I go now, what to do? I don't have money for the lawyer.

See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83229473&postcount=11

tony81

Baloo666 wrote: »

I worked for 20 years altogether, and just wanted to work for 10 more in Ireland to have only minimal even the lowest pension when I get older. I am now 47 and I am so frustrated with the system here.

So let me get this straight. You're 47 and only worked for 20 years?
And now you come to Ireland with the expectation of working 10 years for your retirement?
Well, thank you for reporting your scumbag employer.
Now go home, and try to fix your own country rather than getting frustrated at this one, and please tell your friends that they should not expect to come to Ireland with the notion that they can work for a few years and build houses or build a retirement fund. The retirement age is going up to 68 here and many people are up to their eyeballs in negative equity. There's no silver bullet here. Sorry you had to find this out the hard way.

Baloo666

tony81 wrote: »

So let me get this straight. You're 47 and only worked for 20 years?
And now you come to Ireland with the expectation of working 10 years for your retirement?
Well, thank you for reporting your scumbag employer.
Now go home, and try to fix your own country rather than getting frustrated at this one, and please tell your friends that they should not expect to come to Ireland with the notion that they can work for a few years and build houses or build a retirement fund. The retirement age is going up to 68 here and many people are up to their eyeballs in negative equity. There's no silver bullet here. Sorry you had to find this out the hard way.

Exactly - since your system sets this like that - 10 years of work minimum to work retirement pension in THIS country - then I have no intention of going back to my own country :):) I will leave the fixing for the others
And you know what? Soon, and it will be this year Romanians and Bulgarians will be allowed to work legally here, they are just getting ready to come in thousands to work their pensions here ... and... get some of your benefits and allowances ENJOY

Smoggy

Baloo666 wrote: »

Exactly - since your system sets this like that - 10 years of work minimum to work retirement pension in THIS country - then I have no intention of going back to my own country :):) I will leave the fixing for the others
And you know what? Soon, and it will be this year Romanians and Bulgarians will be allowed to work legally here, they are just getting ready to come in thousands to work their pensions here ... and... get some of your benefits and allowances ENJOY

Tosser