Secondary School Teacher with one subject

fayco

I am a qualified secondary school music teacher and im currently working as a substitute. I have been told that if I had a second subject to teach, my chances of getting a job would be higher.

Does anyone know of a part-time (preferably one year) course in Ireland which would qualify me to teach another subject, I dont mind what subject to be honest but maybe religion, Biology, Irish? as i said though, subject choice is not important

TheDriver

Biology is common and religion wouldn't be best unless big school, Irish would be a great bet. Can't help you on courses but make sure its teaching council approved
remember the second subject could end up being your main employment so pick carefully.

Seanchai

fayco wrote: »

I am a qualified secondary school music teacher and im currently working as a substitute. I have been told that if I had a second subject to teach, my chances of getting a job would be higher.

This is very true. I've written elsewhere about this, as I was in your situation and had to go back and add a subject. People are delusional/lazy if they think they'll get job security with a single subject these days. They just have to put in the work, as everybody else who returns while balancing full-time teaching has. I hated my course by the end of it. It wasn't the subject it was that by the time I left college at night it was 9.30pm and I had been up at 7.30am and this had been my routine twice a week for two years, with the assignments and studying at weekend and planning for classes and subjects I had never taught during the same period. People who don't go through this crap do not have a right to cry foul when they're struggling to find a job with a single subject. You are right to start consolidating your career by returning for that second subject asap. Best of luck with it.

fayco wrote: »

Does anyone know of a part-time (preferably one year) course in Ireland which would qualify me to teach another subject, I dont mind what subject to be honest but maybe religion, Biology, Irish? as i said though, subject choice is not important

More constructively:

Read

1) this thread and its associated link pages.

2) this post.

If you're thinking of UCD, the name of the course is the Higher Diploma in Arts. It is administered by the Arts Programme Office there. Your first port of call should be to contact them and ask them what subjects they are teaching in the evening next September. I know for certain that 2nd Year Irish will begin in the evening in September 2013 as I know teachers who are in the same boat as you and are returning to do Irish then.

gaeilgebeo

fayco wrote: »

Does anyone know of a part-time (preferably one year) course in Ireland which would qualify me to teach another subject?

To be qualified to teach a second subject, you need to study it to degree level.
I don't think you will find any part-time one year course that will award you with a degree in a subject.

Powerhouse

Beware of doing Irish in an "any subject will do" frame of mind. It's one thing to go back and do it, quite another to be competent and reach a level sufficient to be able to get through interviews and inspections. For part-timers it will take a lot of personal commitment and time to attend the Gaeltacht and get to a good standard in both spoken and written Irish especially if people have not done the subject in a long time.

It is slightly disquieting to see the subject (as past of the broader 'add-on-a-second-subject-while-you-wait-rather-than-taking-the-scenic-route-like-the-other-mugs' theme) constantly plugged here as the answer to all employment problems. Contrary to some claims there are unemployed Irish teachers around. Having a second subject guarantees squat. Having a second subject at which you're not very good and have to avoid red-faced stuttering conversations like the plague because you did it for the wrong reasons guarantees less.

Seanchai

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

To be qualified to teach a second subject, you need to study it to degree level.
I don't think you will find any part-time one year course that will award you with a degree in a subject.

Correction: if one is already a registered teacher with the Teaching Council, in order to register another subject with the Teaching Council you need to get 30% of a degree (180 ECTS credits), or 54 degree credits, from 2nd and 3rd year of a 3-year degree in that subject. This can be done part-time in the evening over two years for some subjects. It can be done part-time during the day for almost every/every available BA subject. The name of the exit qualification is the Higher Diploma in Arts. It is worth 60 ECTS degree credits.

In addition to the above, the TC requires that a person must have done at least 10 ECTS degree credits in the subject in First Year. These can be secured, again part-time, over a semester.

From the Teaching Council of Ireland: "The Registration Officer briefed the committee with regard to the format and purpose of the Higher Diploma in Arts. The qualification normally covers modules in Arts Subjects at second and third year level to the value of 60 ECTS credits and could be deemed to be equivalent of studying a subject to degree level.

It was agreed by the Registration Committee that where a registered teacher had not studied a subject at first year degree level and is seeking to top up his/her qualifications via a Higher Diploma in Arts Qualification that the applicant is required to complete 10 ECTS in the subject area at first year level in addition to the Higher Diploma in Arts in order to meet the registration criteria."

Powerhouse

Seanchai wrote: »

Correction: if one is already a registered teacher with the Teaching Council, in order to register another subject with the Teaching Council you need to get 30% of a degree (180 ECTS credits), or 54 degree credits, from 2nd and 3rd year of a 3-year degree in that subject.

Your 'correction' is inappropriate. I'm not sure you quite understand what you are writing. GaeligeBeo is quite correct, you do need to study a subject to degree level to be registered with the TC (save a few exceptional subjects like SPHE etc.). Nothing you wrote contradicts that.

You seem, in this instance, to be interpreting 'degree level' as meaning that GaeligeBeo is suggesting that someone has to have 180 ECTS credits in a subject. The entire degree amounts to 180 ECTS, not the individual subjects. It would be common (certainly in dual-major Humanities degrees) that the final degree subjects would amount to around a third of the degree credits with extra subjects/modules making up the balance. I'm sure everybody here understands that - certainly the Arts graduates should.

The entry of the so-called Higher Diploma in Arts to the nomenclature should not confuse the issue. It is designed to be the same credit-wise as taking a subject to degree level. The give out the pieces of paper because they cannot add credits to a degree already awarded.

Seanchai

Powerhouse wrote: »

Your 'correction' is inappropriate. I'm not sure you quite understand what you are writing.

Charming. Are you always this patronising, or was the world particularly hard on you today?

Powerhouse wrote: »

You seem, in this instance, to be interpreting 'degree level' as meaning that GaeligeBeo is suggesting that someone has to have 180 ECTS credits in a subject. The entire degree amounts to 180 ECTS, not the individual subjects. It would be common (certainly in dual-major Humanities degrees) that the final degree subjects would amount to around a third of the degree credits with extra subjects/modules making up the balance. I'm sure everybody here understands that - certainly the Arts graduates should.

The entry of the so-called Higher Diploma in Arts to the nomenclature should not confuse the issue. It is designed to be the same credit-wise as taking a subject to degree level. The give out the pieces of paper because they cannot add credits to a degree already awarded.

The poster stated: 'I don't think you will find any part-time one year course that will award you with a degree in a subject.' This assumes that you need a degree in a subject to teach it. You don't. As such, my correction was very appropriate. I'll say this slowly, as you don't appear to understand the requirements of the Teaching Council, or indeed what constitutes a 'degree'. A degree, at least in the NUI colleges, is 180 credits. You do not need 180 credits to teach. You need 30% of a degree, which is 54 credits in 2nd and 3rd year. 30% of a degree is not a degree, which is why you cannot be awarded a degree but rather are awarded an exit qualification named the Higher Diploma in Arts when you are adding a subject to your existing degree. You can secure these credits in two years, and technically it is possible to secure them in a single year. So, the poster was incorrect on all counts in her advice to the OP.

Furthermore, you are wrong in your explanation for why people are awarded a HDA rather than a degree - "The [sic] give out the pieces of paper because they cannot add credits to a degree already awarded". Your reasoning that a "degree" can be 60 credits or 90 credits depending on how many subjects you have in your degree is patently silly. Somebody who does 180 credits in one subject just has a single "degree", while somebody who does three subjects worth 60 credits each has three "degrees" it appears from reading you. They have a single degree, divided into 1,2, or 3 subjects.

Claiming that doing 60 degree credits is, and I quote the original poster, 'a degree in a subject' is just silly. You cannot get a degree for doing 60 credits because you have only done one-third of a degree. That is the real reason why somebody doing the 60 degree credits of the Higher Diploma in Arts can only get a diploma. This should be simple to understand.

Powerhouse

Seanchai wrote: »

Charming. Are you always this patronising, or was the world particularly hard on you today?

The poster stated: 'I don't think you will find any part-time one year course that will award you with a degree in a subject.' This assumes that you need a degree in a subject to teach it. You don't. As such, my correction was very appropriate. I'll say this slowly, as you don't appear to understand the requirements of the Teaching Council, or indeed what constitutes a 'degree'. A degree, at least in the NUI colleges, is 180 credits. You do not need 180 credits to teach. You need 30% of a degree, which is 54 credits in 2nd and 3rd year. 30% of a degree is not a degree, which is why you cannot be awarded a degree but rather are awarded an exit qualification named the Higher Diploma in Arts when you are adding a subject to your existing degree. You can secure these credits in two years, and technically it is possible to secure them in a single year. So, the poster was incorrect on all counts in her advice to the OP.

Furthermore, you are wrong in your explanation for why people are awarded a HDA rather than a degree - "The [sic] give out the pieces of paper because they cannot add credits to a degree already awarded". Your reasoning that a "degree" can be 60 credits or 90 credits depending on how many subjects you have in your degree is patently silly. Somebody who does 180 credits in one subject just has a single "degree", while somebody who does three subjects worth 60 credits each has three "degrees" it appears from reading you. They have a single degree, divided into 1,2, or 3 subjects.

Claiming that doing 60 degree credits is, and I quote the original poster, 'a degree in a subject' is just silly. You cannot get a degree for doing 60 credits because you have only done one-third of a degree. That is the real reason why somebody doing the 60 degree credits of the Higher Diploma in Arts can only get a diploma. This should be simple to understand.

This is just esoteric hair-splitting. You are now arguing for the sake it. Just to take one example - people have a tendency to say that they have a degree in a subject because it rolls off the tongue easier than saying "I have 33% or a degree in this subject but since I did German in first year only I have only 16.66% or whatever of a degree in that." Most rational experienced people would understand what is meant by that working definition whatever the pedants might argue.

Further comments by you such as "Your reasoning that a "degree" can be 60 credits or 90 credits depending on how many subjects you have in your degree is patently silly" (I never said anything like this) are annoying. It's strange that you write 'sic' after a routine typo of mine as if you were quoting the Versailles Treaty while on the other hand blithely attribute opinions to me that I never proffered.

You have the distinct air of someone whose instinct when confronted with a passage of writing is to correct the apostrophes as a first reponse.

Seanchai

Powerhouse wrote: »

This is just esoteric hair-splitting....

At this stage I'm slightly concerned at your inability to understand English, or more specifically at the time I'm wasting on this seemingly Sisyphean explanation. The poster said you need a 'degree in a subject' in order to teach it. This implies a lot more time is necessary than, say, needing a 'diploma in a subject', which is the factual situation. 180 degree credits versus 60 degree credits. Ironically for your argument, if somebody were doing a proper degree they would complete 60 degree credits per year each year, for three years. In sharp contrast, to be qualified to teach a subject somebody who is already a qualified teacher (like the OP) only needs to do the 60 degree credits in that subject which constitute the Higher Diploma in Arts (technically, they only need 54 ECTS, 30% of a degree, but the HDA is 60 ECTS, 33%). Full stop. This can be done in a year, but is usually done over two years part time. In other words, when this reality is explained to somebody the time commitment is substantially less than the time commitment implied by the claim that one needs a "degree in a subject" in order to teach it.

That you think correcting this misleading statement is merely "esoteric hair-splitting" is, well, unfortunate given that somebody doing a diploma would be acutely conscious of the difference in workload between that and a degree. Accept it, and move on.

shellywelly25

Do you know if you can carry the credits from an undergrad course ??
Im a qual Geog and CSPE teacher but I want to do Business as an add on. I did Economics in the first year of my arts degree. Can I use this and add on credits ??
Has anyone done this ??
Thanks

Seanchai

shellywelly25 wrote: »

Do you know if you can carry the credits from an undergrad course ??
Im a qual Geog and CSPE teacher but I want to do Business as an add on. I did Economics in the first year of my arts degree. Can I use this and add on credits ??
Has anyone done this ??
Thanks

Short answer to both: Yes, and Yes.

Long answer:

I'm not sure if you can be TC registered for Business if your ECTS/degree credits are in Economics (although I think you can). I would contact the TC directly to get clarification. If you can, the same applies as applies to Economics as outlined now.

If you'd like to be TC-registered to teach Economics, yes you will need the credits from first year. To be precise you will need 10 ECTS/degree credits from your 1st year economics course. You will then have to do an additional total of 54 ECTS from 2nd and 3rd year. The handiest way to do this is to do the Higher Diploma in Arts (HDA), which is 60 ECTS credits (30 degree credits each year). In UCD you can go into 2nd year Economics this September 2013, but it will not be running at night. Unless, that is, you can find a sufficient number of people who would be interested in the night BA/HDA and approach the School of Economics (that long-shot way is, roughly, how I did the HDA at night by the way - the department would only run the night course if they had sufficient interest).

chippers

Seanchai wrote: »

Short answer to both: Yes, and Yes.

Long answer:

I'm not sure if you can be TC registered for Business if your ECTS/degree credits are in Economics (although I think you can). I would contact the TC directly to get clarification. If you can, the same applies as applies to Economics as outlined now.

If you'd like to be TC-registered to teach Economics, yes you will need the credits from first year. To be precise you will need 10 ECTS/degree credits from your 1st year economics course. You will then have to do an additional total of 54 ECTS from 2nd and 3rd year. The handiest way to do this is to do the Higher Diploma in Arts (HDA), which is 60 ECTS credits (30 degree credits each year). In UCD you can go into 2nd year Economics this September 2013, but it will not be running at night. Unless, that is, you can find a sufficient number of people who would be interested in the night BA/HDA and approach the School of Economics (that long-shot way is, roughly, how I did the HDA at night by the way - the department would only run the night course if they had sufficient interest).

My degree in in Economics and it gives me Economics and Business Studies to JC level

gaeilgebeo

chippers wrote: »

My degree in in Economics and it gives me Economics and Business Studies to JC level

There is no such thing as "to JC level". You are either qualified to teach a subject or you are not.

Miss Lockhart

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

There is no such thing as "to JC level". You are either qualified to teach a subject or you are not.

There is when the subject only goes to JC level like Business Studies and Science.

UnLuckyAgain

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

There is no such thing as "to JC level". You are either qualified to teach a subject or you are not.

For Science and Business subjects, recognition to teach one of the subjects to Leaving Cert level confers recognition to teach Science / Business Studies at Junior Certificate level, as per Teaching Council guidelines.

So yes, there is such thing as "to JC level".

gaeilgebeo

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

There is when the subject only goes to JC level like Business Studies and Science.

Business is a Leaving Cert subject.
You are either a qualified science teacher or not.
The VEC I teach for are extremely strict on job applications and have made it clear that one should only apply for positions that they are fully qualified for. I thought the Teaching Council had gotten rid of the "qualified to Junior Cert" myth.

Miss Lockhart

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Business is a Leaving Cert subject.
You are either a qualified science teacher or not.
The VEC I teach for are extremely strict on job applications and have made it clear that one should only apply for positions that they are fully qualified for. I thought the Teaching Council had gotten rid of the "qualified to Junior Cert" myth.

Business Studies at jc is not simply business, it is a combination of business, economics and accounting. Likewise jc science is a combination of biology, chemistry and physics. If you are qualified to teach any of the LC subjects you are qualified to teach the jc combination subject.

There is no LC science so it is not as straight forward as being either a qualified science teacher or not

chippers

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

There is no such thing as "to JC level". You are either qualified to teach a subject or you are not.

I am qualified to teach Business Studies to Junior certificate level. I am not qualified to teach Business the leaving certificate subject.

Powerhouse

Seanchai wrote: »

At this stage I'm slightly concerned at your inability to understand English, or more specifically at the time I'm wasting on this seemingly Sisyphean explanation. The poster said you need a 'degree in a subject' in order to teach it. This implies a lot more time is necessary than, say, needing a 'diploma in a subject', which is the factual situation. 180 degree credits versus 60 degree credits. Ironically for your argument, if somebody were doing a proper degree they would complete 60 degree credits per year each year, for three years. In sharp contrast, to be qualified to teach a subject somebody who is already a qualified teacher (like the OP) only needs to do the 60 degree credits in that subject which constitute the Higher Diploma in Arts (technically, they only need 54 ECTS, 30% of a degree, but the HDA is 60 ECTS, 33%). Full stop. This can be done in a year, but is usually done over two years part time. In other words, when this reality is explained to somebody the time commitment is substantially less than the time commitment implied by the claim that one needs a "degree in a subject" in order to teach it.

That you think correcting this misleading statement is merely "esoteric hair-splitting" is, well, unfortunate given that somebody doing a diploma would be acutely conscious of the difference in workload between that and a degree. Accept it, and move on.

You just don't appear to get this. We don't need to be hearing about ECTS credits and 60 credits here and 54 credits there.

The simple point is that for many many people the phrases 'I have a subject to degree level' and 'I have a degree in a subject' are synonmous. Now perhaps you answer the question 'what's your degree in?' by providing handouts to supplement a 20-minute lecture on the credits system and the relative workloads of the various qualifications, but most people don't and they are well understood.

Mardy Bum

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Business is a Leaving Cert subject.
You are either a qualified science teacher or not.
The VEC I teach for are extremely strict on job applications and have made it clear that one should only apply for positions that they are fully qualified for. I thought the Teaching Council had gotten rid of the "qualified to Junior Cert" myth.

Business Studies is not the same as Business. Its not a myth. The myth is rather "I studied this in first year therefore able to teach it to JC."

Recognition to teach Economics to the highest level in post-primary education also confers
recognition to teach Business Studies at Junior Certificate level.

P33

MollFlanders

Would you consider doing religion through St. Angela's College in Sligo. A friend of my completed this course and is fully recognised to teach it. Good luck!

ViveLaVie

Seanchai wrote: »

This can be done in a year, but is usually done over two years part time.

I was told at a talk in college that the TC have now stipulated that you must have taken a minimum of 54 credits (this is being changed to 60 in the next year or two) over a minimum of three years. So how does the higher diploma fulfil the time requirement?

Mardy Bum

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I was told at a talk in college that the TC have now stipulated that you must have taken a minimum of 54 credits (this is being changed to 60 in the next year or two) over a minimum of three years. So how does the higher diploma fulfil the time requirement?

The Hdip is like a top up to your BA I think.

Miss Lockhart

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I was told at a talk in college that the TC have now stipulated that you must have taken a minimum of 54 credits (this is being changed to 60 in the next year or two) over a minimum of three years. So how does the higher diploma fulfil the time requirement?

My understanding having dealt extensively with the TC regarding my undergraduate degree and then regarding add on modules is that the credits must encompass at leat 3 levels ie they can't all just be second year modules.

shellywelly25

As far as I can tell, once you have 60credits in a subject you can teach it !!!! Im looking into a few different options as to what subject to do !!! Its hard to decided because I dont want to spend around 6000euro and not have a better chance at getting full time work!!! has anyone done or knows anybody who has done the Maths add on in DCU ???

micar

I did the hdip in 2006. I did maths and applied maths in college.
On the first day on the hdip course, I had to choose a second subject. I had thought of doing science. However, as I did not do physics, chemistry or biology in first in college I was not allowed to teach it.
I had to pick another subject. Geography would have been by best subject in school and best result in the leaving, so I decided to take that as my second teaching subject.
I didn't go into teaching.

Miss Lockhart

shellywelly25 wrote: »

As far as I can tell, once you have 60credits in a subject you can teach it !!!

The content of the credits is very important, and of course you must have completed a level 8 degree.

shellywelly25

I have a degree in Geog and Pol and the Hdip as well as a masters in Geog. I can teach Geog and CSPE however CSPE is a weak second subject so I was looking to add another subject. I taught Religion and Eng last yr and I was going to do one of them but iv been told that loads of people have those subjects thats why I was looking into Maths!!! I heard there is a course you can do in DCU ????? its like a HDip in Maths that allows you to teach it. I cant seem to find it online though!!!??

shellywelly25

micar wrote: »

I didn't go into teaching.

I really dont want to give up on it :(

StrawberryJazz

To be honest, and especially in the case of Music, I feel it is better to hire one teacher who is very good at one subject and have them specialize within the school, rather than spreading them out between two or three subjects.

I am currently split between Music (75% of my classes) and other subjects and for every subject you teach the extra tasks double. Lesson plans, meetings, paperwork, grading etc. doesn't represent the actual time I spend on each subject in the classroom.