Emirates Beware

Nhocht

We flew Emirates longhaul recently. On the return flight, Emirates managed to tear off the hood on my daughters stroller and it was no where to be found. This stroller has previously been on plenty of other flights with other airlines with no issues. When I reported this to the ground staff, the reaction I got was not great. They basically told me that Emirates are not like the other airlines and will not accept any responsibility for any damage.

I decided to give Emirates the benefit of the doubt and tried contacting them. I thought a so called 5-star airline would care about their customers. First thing I found was how difficult it was to get contact details for their baggage claims department. The only contact details I found on their website are for buying tickets. I persevered and finally got a phone number and email address. I managed to submit a claim but it took numerous calls, emails and a few weeks before I was basically fobbed off. They did this without even asking me for details of the stroller or the damage done to it. So basically they did not care and only replied to get me off their back, which isn't going to happen.

Apart from shiny planes their service isn't that great anyway. We found their multinational crew very detached and uninterested.

So there, think twice before you make a decision to fly Emirates. I now consider them the longhaul Ryanair.

LeftBase

Nhocht wrote: »

So there, think twice before you make a decision to fly Emirates. I now consider them the longhaul Ryanair.

You'd be in the minority there I'd say.

Chances are they do not believe that this is there problem. If baggage is damaged by ground handling agents airlines can be slow to put there hand up. I'd keep on at them with details of the damage the the approx cost.

I'm not sure as to why you chose to put emphasis on the "multi-national" nature of the crew?

Nhocht

They have informed me their decision is final. How they came about that decision without even knowing what stroller looks like I don't know. Sounded to me like the decision was made even before they read my claim.

I was not emphasizing multinational. Just stating fact. And they are the most disinterested lot I have ever come across bar a few. We fly long haul 5-6 times a year and Emirates, apart from shiny planes don't rank highly on our list.

Incidentally, we had decided we would probably never fly them by choice again even before we discovered the damage done to the stroller.

castie

I found a bug with their booking system awhile ago.

Was booking flights for my parents and was searching around dates.

Tried to book leaving the 24th but when PDF was sent to me it said 17th.
Rang them immediately to say there was a mistake and they assured me there was no problem.

When I logged in using the booking it said 3 sets of return flights! (the 3 sets of dates I had been looking at)
They then replied after I submitted screenshots saying only 1 flight was booked and it was the 17th as the PDF is never wrong.
Still refused to change it in the end....just covered up anything I flagged as proof for me.

Nhocht

We had issues with their online booking system too and eventually had to ring them to finalise the bookings.

Their refusal to even consider the damage they done to the stroller really irks me. How am I supposed to trust them with my luggage again knowing they will probably refuse responsibility if it got damaged. Might have been better if it went missing altogether.

In all my years flying, I have never been treated like this by any airline. Most I had to deal with were complicated claims procedures full of red tape for missing baggage or ash cloud delay, but never fobbed off without a proper listening. Like I said before, they are like a longhaul version of Ryanair.

gihj

Nhocht wrote: »

. Like I said before, they are like a longhaul version of Ryanair.

t

Why???
Did Ryanair also damage your property?
Or are you just fashionably bashing Ryanair?
I do love a Ryanair bashing thread (yawn)

MuffinsDa

gihj wrote: »

t

Why???
Did Ryanair also damage your property?
Or are you just fashionably bashing Ryanair?
I do love a Ryanair bashing thread (yawn)

I once told my boss that his company is a Ryanair Style company (it was a software development company) when I wasn't given discretionary leave after my first child was born. I had an email an hour later saying he would like to give me 3 days off. So Ryanair bashing worked in that case

Nhocht

Had plenty run ins with Ryanair but nothing to do with luggage. Just like Ryanair, Emirates seem very happy to take your money and ignore you if and when something goes wrong. Only difference is I expect that sort of treatment from Ryanair but not from a so called 5-star airline like Emirates.

If they had an issue with the luggage they should have said so at check in and not just unilaterally insist it isn't, without even bothering to check first, once something goes wrong. I had already been prewarned by airport staff that Emirates are very bad when it comes to damaged baggage claims and not to bother and claim through the insurance instead.

Just thought the public should be made aware and be prepared should it happen to you.

brandon_flowers

This is something I don't understand with people bashing Ryanair or using them as a yardstick against other airlines. While I use them very little and they are not used by our company they provide a inexpensive alternative.

It's that old chestnut - YGWYPF

If you pay €25 for a ticket with FR don't be expecting champagne and chocolates and a wonderful service. If you pay €750 for a ticket with EK you can expect the above (maybe not the champers)

Hence the OP should be entitled to a proper answer from Emirates. He had a contract with Emirates to fly him and his baggage to wherever, therefore they are responsible. It is up to them to deal with the handling agent if there was one involved.

With FR it is the same story but more often than not people will know that Ryanair will be no help or there will be nobody around to help so they go straight to Servisair or whoever was the handling agent.

Nhocht

brandon_flowers wrote: »

It's that old chestnut - YGWYPF

If you pay €25 for a ticket with FR don't be expecting champagne and chocolates and a wonderful service. If you pay €750 for a ticket with EK you can expect the above (maybe not the champers)

Hence the OP should be entitled to a proper answer from Emirates. He had a contract with Emirates to fly him and his baggage to wherever, therefore they are responsible. It is up to them to deal with the handling agent if there was one involved.

Absolutely! The reply I got was effectively a fob off. They did not even ask about the stroller or ask for a photograph. When I wrote back offering more details, they told me the previous decision was final, but based on what? All they had was the printed claims receipt I got at the airport.

More worrying though was my conversation with airport staff while waiting for them to search for the missing bit. I was told not to bother trying to claim from EK before they won't want to know. EK sell themselves as one of the best but totally let you down when it comes to your baggage.

Hence, something to consider before you make your final decision on which airline to go with. Shiny planes with fancy entertainment systems isn't everything.

westies4ever

Flew with Emirates a couple of times. I thought they were brilliant. One bad experience shouldnt tar the whole company.

Shzm

Emirates is one of the most overrated airlines in my opinion, and the fact that they use Dubai as a hub makes it even worse.

Singapore Airlines and Changi, there's a good combination.

Nhocht

Quite right, which is why I haven't mentioned any of the other things they messed up on, which were not intentional and just one of those things that happen from time to time. This baggage issue on the other hand seems to be a policy issue with EK. It would seem this is their regular policy which means it is a matter of time before it happens everyone, if they fly frequently enough.

I am a frequent flyer and have had all sorts happen on previous occasions but always satisfied with the outcome. This is the first time I have ever found the need to voice my concerns about any airline.

Nhocht

Shzm wrote: »

Emirates is one of the most overrated airlines in my opinion, and the fact that they use Dubai as a hub makes it even worse.

Singapore Airlines and Changi, there's a good combination.

You have just mentioned one of my favourite airlines. SQ are definitely one of my favourites. They are by no means perfect, having lost my luggage and delayed me in the past but always made up for it accordingly.

flazio

Could you process this in the Small Claims court?

martinsvi

in case of damaged baggage, Ryanair actually does replace the broken suitcase or stroller and does it promptly without any photographic proof (personal experience). All you need to do, as soon as you realize the damage, you have to turn to airport's lost and found desk and form a PIR. They are required to pay/replace the broken thing by EU Regulation 889/2002

Emirates are not an EU airline and they are not required to compensate you anything! You can take it to any court you like, you don't have a case. If you have a travel insurance, you must make a claim against your insurer. It wasn't Emirate's pilots or cabin crew that damaged your stroller, might as well been a baggage handler in Dublin/Dubai or wherever - you can't prove anything

you can find out more here - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/airline_liability.html

Nhocht

flazio wrote: »

Could you process this in the Small Claims court?

Yes, I should be able to. Would prefer not to but they are leaving me with no option.

I find it very strange for an airline such as Emirates to have an inflexible policy. They spend so much on aircraft and marketing only to throw it all away with poor customer care afterwards. From what I heard at the airport, they do this all the time and it would seem they have gotten away with it till now. It isn't the money that's bothering me. We have already replaced the stroller. It is the thought of all the other unsuspecting passengers finding themselves in the same position as me and get bullied into towing the line. I am going to try to find a solution and post it here for others to follow.

Nhocht

martinsvi wrote: »

in case of damaged baggage, Ryanair actually does replace the broken suitcase or stroller and does it promptly without any photographic proof (personal experience). All you need to do, as soon as you realize the damage, you have to turn to airport's lost and found desk and form a PIR. They are required to pay/replace the broken thing by EU Regulation 889/2002

Emirates are not an EU airline and they are not required to compensate you anything! You can take it to any court you like, you don't have a case. If you have a travel insurance, you must make a claim against your insurer. It wasn't Emirate's pilots or cabin crew that damaged your stroller, might as well been a baggage handler in Dublin/Dubai or wherever - you can't prove anything

you can find out more here - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/airline_liability.html

I have read the link you provided. It does not say Emirates are not required to compensate me. As far as I know, they are party to the Montreal Convention so the rules are similar. I have followed all the procedures outlined to date so I am on target. Next step it to write to the CEO before I begin Small Claims proceedings. I have 2 years for that.

martinsvi

Nhocht wrote: »

I have read the link you provided. It does not say Emirates are not required to compensate me. As far as I know, they are party to the Montreal Convention so the rules are similar. I have followed all the procedures outlined to date so I am on target. Next step it to write to the CEO before I begin Small Claims proceedings. I have 2 years for that.

you are absolutely right, I forgot about Montreal convention and I thought it only covered death/injury. Well then, go get them! I'm interested to see if small claims court will take the case - I could not found any info on what jurisdiction they have. I seriously doubt they can make foreign company pay - the only way to force them is to arrest one of their fancy b777 right here in Dublin... imagine that, clamped triple-seven because of a damaged stroller

Nhocht

LOL! Like I said it's not about the money. I just think potential passengers should know what they are getting themselves into prior to paying for their tickets. Had I known, I would not have flown them.

I intend to proceed with the Small Claims procedure and see how far it gets me. Updates will be posted here.

Stinicker

Nhocht wrote: »

I now consider them the longhaul Ryanair.

Yes especially when flying them on economy, Emirates are totally over rated, Dubai airport is an overcrowded kip and whilst many people moan about Heathrow, I found Dubai worse. Then you when you factor in their absolute cramped (10-a-breast) sardine can Boeing 777's it gets even worse. The thing is with Emirates is that they are not even the cheapest on alot of routes and the only thing they have to their advantage is the A380 and the 30KG baggage allowance and now Etihad offers 30KG also. The A380 service is brilliant in every way but it isn't enough for me to warrant flying them as the A380 dosen't fly to Ireland and Dubai airport is just bad.

To compare with Ryanair is actually wrong, at least with Ryanair you are expecting the worst but most of the time it is fine. Emirates in economy class is like paying for a 5 star hotel but finding yourself in a 2-3star instead.

happyoutscan

OP can you post up any pictures of the damage and an estimate to fix?

martinsvi

Stinicker wrote: »

Yes especially when flying them on economy, Emirates are totally over rated.....

I honestly can't understand where did you get the idea that paying 800eur for a return trip to OZ will get you 5 star service.. Roughly that's 43 hours in the air (return), making 1 hour cost close to 19 eur. Then you have Ryanair - flying at about 30 eur per hour.

Stinicker

martinsvi wrote: »

I honestly can't understand where did you get the idea that paying 800eur for a return trip to OZ will get you 5 star service.. Roughly that's 43 hours in the air (return), making 1 hour cost close to 19 eur. Then you have Ryanair - flying at about 30 eur per hour.

I flew Emirates to Malaysia and home from Bangkok at a cost of €670 and never flew them to Australia. At least with Ryanair you know it is cheap and nasty, Emirates claim to be something they are not, The A380 is superb but Dubai airport is very bad and the seating is too cramped on the Boeing 777.

martinsvi

Stinicker wrote: »

I flew Emirates to Malaysia and home from Bangkok at a cost of €670 and never flew them to Australia. At least with Ryanair you know it is cheap and nasty, Emirates claim to be something they are not, The A380 is superb but Dubai airport is very bad and the seating is too cramped on the Boeing 777.

well, i'm not feeling like splitting any hairs right know - still - you travelled half way across the globe an back into one piece for a price that is like half of the minimal monthly wage in this country, did you honestly expect a back rub and satin seat covers? Be glad you didn't catch any fleas.. or did you?

keroseneboy

Nhocht wrote: »

We flew Emirates longhaul recently..... I thought a so called 5-star airline would care about their customers....I now consider them the longhaul Ryanair.

Indeed Emirates and Ryanair to have one major feature in common: Profitability. I believe that you are confusing Emirates with Qatar as to who call themselves a 5* airline, a name I always considered a bit rediculous(don't you need a swimming pool to have 5* rating)?

P.S. Sorry about your stroller. The little ones must have loads of airmiles by now given you fly 5 longhaul trips a year.

keroseneboy

I would suspect that given it took some force to rip off the cover in question that the damage was done after the stroller left Emirate's hands at the gate and the damage was done by the baggage delivery roller/carousel mechanism. Have you tried comtacting their ground handling agents and/or DAA ? It might not be Emirates fault at all.

castie

keroseneboy wrote: »

I would suspect that given it took some force to rip off the cover in question that the damage was done after the stroller left Emirate's hands at the gate and the damage was done by the baggage delivery roller/carousel mechanism. Have you tried comtacting their ground handling agents and/or DAA ? It might not be Emirates fault at all.

Its still their responsibility.

No one is suggesting they want luxury but the 777 10 a breast seating is very very tight to the point where the aisle seats people lean into the aisle for some space.

The customer service guys have the "we do no wrong" approach to handling issues which is leaving alot of people disgruntled.
Its worth noting as well that with the customer service being outsourced they will not allow any direct contact with anyone from emirates.

Nhocht

happyoutscan wrote: »

OP can you post up any pictures of the damage and an estimate to fix?

The hood which is securely clipped to the stroller is also partially enveloped by stroller when folded. To remove it they would have had to partially unfold or give it an almighty yank. A photograph won't show damage, because there is no damage, just a missing hood. I do have before and after photos. My main gripe is they pronounced it unsuitable for carriage only after I claimed for damage and without even looking at any photos. In addition, I was told by ground staff at airport, Emirates are very bad for compensation when it comes to damaged baggage.

Nhocht

Stinicker wrote: »

I flew Emirates to Malaysia and home from Bangkok at a cost of €670 and never flew them to Australia. At least with Ryanair you know it is cheap and nasty, Emirates claim to be something they are not, The A380 is superb but Dubai airport is very bad and the seating is too cramped on the Boeing 777.

I agree the seating on the EK 777's are very cramped. That's because they opted for the 3-4-3 seating as opposed to the more common 3-3-3 or 2-5-2 for that aircraft. Definitely a case of squeezing as many sardines as possible into the can.

Nhocht

keroseneboy wrote: »

I would suspect that given it took some force to rip off the cover in question that the damage was done after the stroller left Emirate's hands at the gate and the damage was done by the baggage delivery roller/carousel mechanism. Have you tried comtacting their ground handling agents and/or DAA ? It might not be Emirates fault at all.

The little one doesn't join me on all trips. The stroller was bought for flying only and is not used on a day to day basis. She has 2 others for that purpose. So another way of looking at it is, its only been used a couple of weeks.

It would have required a lot of force and perhaps for the stroller to be partially unfolded to get the hood off. Ground handling agents checked the carousel and aircraft and said it was not in Dublin. They also told me how bad EK were when it comes to accepting the blame for any damages. They were proved right when EK refused to even entertain my claim. I expected them to at least investigate the damage before trying to fob us off. Sounds like a policy issue to me.

Nhocht

castie wrote: »

Its still their responsibility.


The customer service guys have the "we do no wrong" approach to handling issues which is leaving alot of people disgruntled.
Its worth noting as well that with the customer service being outsourced they will not allow any direct contact with anyone from emirates.

This is what I am experiencing and it sounds like I will need to go legal with this to get any satisfaction.

Like I said previously, my biggest gripe with them is for fobbing me off without a proper hearing.

kona

You obviously haven't seen 1st class if your comparing them to Ryanair.

castie

kona wrote: »

You obviously haven't seen 1st class if your comparing them to Ryanair.

Just because they have first class doesnt mean their post and pre sale customer service is any better for ecomony class passengers...

LeftBase

castie wrote: »

Just because they have first class doesnt mean their post and pre sale customer service is any better for ecomony class passengers...

I've heard them likened to White Star Lines(who ran the Titanic) in that they give a beautiful service to the 1st Class passengers but it's fairly basic and no frills for the poor souls in steerage!

kona

castie wrote: »

Just because they have first class doesnt mean their post and pre sale customer service is any better for ecomony class passengers...

I was more referring to the bitching about the quality of their product. They certainly are not comparable to Ryanair.

markpb

keroseneboy wrote: »

I would suspect that given it took some force to rip off the cover in question that the damage was done after the stroller left Emirate's hands at the gate and the damage was done by the baggage delivery roller/carousel mechanism. Have you tried comtacting their ground handling agents and/or DAA ? It might not be Emirates fault at all.

The OPs contract is with Emirates, not the various companies that Emirates hire at each airport.

Nhocht

markpb wrote: »

The OPs contract is with Emirates, not the various companies that Emirates hire at each airport.

Absolutely! Anyway the damage was done somewhere along the way and probably during the transfer in DXB. The Servisair lads in Dublin were most helpful and took time to search carousel and aircraft.

However nice the first class or the aircraft might be, the experience is incomplete without proper customer service. I was very surprise to hear that Emirates as a matter of policy do not entertain claims for damage to strollers period. They were not interested in who, why, how, what. Just went straight to "no" and "goodbye"!

Nhocht

Good thing I logged in today. Have almost forgotten about the whole thing. I should really be submitting my claim to the small claims court before the statute of limitation kicks in.

Would appreciate any advice for doing so.

Thanks.

Yamanoto

Nhocht wrote: »

Good thing I logged in today. Have almost forgotten about the whole thing. I should really be submitting my claim to the small claims court before the statute of limitation kicks in.

Would appreciate any advice for doing so.

Thanks.

We're into the realms of the Consumer Issues forum here tbh.

Have you written to Emirates, as opposed to speaking to them in person or by phone?

If not, send a registered letter, laying out clearly and concisely the reasons for your complaint and the fact that your attempts to seek resolution have thus far been met with indifference. You can also stipulate a reasonable time frame for them to investigate the claim and reply accordingly.

The SCC should be your last resort & as your complaint is relatively recent, I'd imagine any time constraints on you pursuing a claim won't factor.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

Royal Irish

I love Emirates. Their business class is fantastic and the all round service is great.

I had a laptop damaged on a KLM flight from Manila to Amsterdam when it was in the over head compartment and just claimed off my travel insurance. Got £300 off them. Can you not claim off your travel insurance as it would be covered?

Nhocht

Thanks for your reply. I have tried everything with Emirates. I have spoken to them written them. The Irish agents are sympathetic by Emirates in the UK do not care at all. They basically sent me a "go away and leave us alone" letter without even bothering to look at the facts and evidence. The last communication was my letter to them which I have not received a reply to and I presume they won't at this stage.

Only option left to me is to pursue a claims through the SCC, which I intend doing.

josip

My friend's experience with the small claims court and an airline I won't name for fear of being accused of bashing it, is that they will wait until the last day possible before the court case to see if you give up/go away/expire and will then offer to settle your claim in full.

Under Irish law, a company must have legal representation in the small claims court whereas an individual doesn't have to. That is a big incentive for companies not to go to court because usually the cost of legal representation exceeds the claim cost in question. As far as I'm aware, as long as you don't appeal, costs can't be awarded against you if you lose.

Nhocht

josip wrote: »

My friend's experience with the small claims court and an airline I won't name for fear of being accused of bashing it, is that they will wait until the last day possible before the court case to see if you give up/go away/expire and will then offer to settle your claim in full.

Under Irish law, a company must have legal representation in the small claims court whereas an individual doesn't have to. That is a big incentive for companies not to go to court because usually the cost of legal representation exceeds the claim cost in question. As far as I'm aware, as long as you don't appeal, costs can't be awarded against you if you lose.

Thanks for the great advice. That is what I have been told previously. Unfortunately, Emirates have left me no choice but to resort to this course of action.

Hopefully, my experience may help others who find themselves in similar situations with Emirates. Going by their policies, this should happen fairly regularly.

smurfjed

Where did you get the idea that they are a 5 star airline? Skytrax considers them a 4 star airline.
Considering that you are talking about a stroller, do airlines consider these an item with limited liability?

You might find this interesting....

http://elliott.org/blog/case-dismissed-american-airlines-completely-destroyed-our-stroller/


Smurfjed

andy_g

Moved to Travel as the thread is not Aviation or Aircraft related.

killbillvol2

Why didn't you just claim on your travel insurance?

keithclancy

Nhocht wrote: »

We flew Emirates longhaul recently. On the return flight, Emirates managed to tear off the hood on my daughters stroller and it was no where to be found. This stroller has previously been on plenty of other flights with other airlines with no issues. When I reported this to the ground staff, the reaction I got was not great. They basically told me that Emirates are not like the other airlines and will not accept any responsibility for any damage.

I decided to give Emirates the benefit of the doubt and tried contacting them. I thought a so called 5-star airline would care about their customers. First thing I found was how difficult it was to get contact details for their baggage claims department. The only contact details I found on their website are for buying tickets. I persevered and finally got a phone number and email address. I managed to submit a claim but it took numerous calls, emails and a few weeks before I was basically fobbed off. They did this without even asking me for details of the stroller or the damage done to it. So basically they did not care and only replied to get me off their back, which isn't going to happen.

Apart from shiny planes their service isn't that great anyway. We found their multinational crew very detached and uninterested.

So there, think twice before you make a decision to fly Emirates. I now consider them the longhaul Ryanair.

Did you fill out a damage claim form at the Airport ?


http://www.emirates.com/de/english/help/faqs/FAQDetails.aspx?faqCategory=214913#faq8

What should I do if my baggage is damaged in transit?

If your baggage has been damaged in transit, you need to file a claim before you leave the airport by approaching the nearest Emirates representative or the baggage services desk. This can usually be found in the customs hall, near the baggage claim area.

If you have left the airport without filing a claim, you must contact your local Emirates office within 7 days.

Occasionally, a bag may be delayed and subsequently delivered in a damaged state. In these cases, please contact Emirates.

Same deal with KLM and most other airlines, they will not entertain claims after you leave the airport.

Nhocht

Yes, claim was filed in the airport. I even had a before photograph taken just before the stroller was handed over to show them the bit that was taken. They were not interested whatsoever in the damage or how it was caused. The fact that the ground staff actually warned me about that says a lot.

It is Emirates policy not to take any responsibility for strollers.

Gatica

We few emirates because they offered cheapest rate for our route. The multi-national multi-lingual staff were all friendly and I found the aircraft one of the best we've flown in, with spacious bathrooms with moisturiser, comfortable seats and lovely food for a flight. We were happy with our experience and would fly with them again.
On the other hand am not a fan of Ryanair and even if they offer cheaper flights I buy them from the competition.

The fact that they wash their hands off baggage claim though is very bad service. Hope the small claims court gives you the resolution to this.