Silly scores!

ForeRight

What's the worst you've seen?

I played a comp last week and it was won with 45 points which also had 2 scratches on the card.

Absolutely ridiculous!!!

What's the point even playing in a comp

n2o

I won a medal with the equivalent of 46 points! It happens...

bailey99

Very little! Seeing 18+ handicappers go round 14 holes in +1 or +2 over par and seeing 9/10 handicappers going round a couple under par.

Don't bother entering competitions in my club as a result.

Wftablueboy

A friend of mine shot. Nett 62 ( 1 under gross) in a medal . Phoned the club later that evening to check the winning score , and was told that there were 3 62's and his was the WORST....

Keano

bailey99 wrote: »

Very little! Seeing 18+ handicappers go round 14 holes in +1 or +2 over par and seeing 9/10 handicappers going round a couple under par.

Don't bother entering competitions in my club as a result.

I've pretty much got that attitidude too. I know standing on the first tee anything less than 38 is pointless. I'm just wanting to get better, winning comps is not my goal.

alxmorgan

My club is normally ok. In summer around 40 pts and you've got a shout

But this winter seems to be mad. You'd need at least 40 to have a chance. And that is 15 hole comps !!!! :eek:

Bit ridiculous really. I mean once or twice could be an anomaly but every week and different guys shooting it seems a bit suss.

The Aul Switcharoo

Things happen sometimes. I think there's more variance with a medium to high handicapper than the low handicappers. Low-handicappers(0-8) will generally be within 4 +/- of the 36 points while higher handicappers can be so more erratic so they can within even 10+/- of their handicaps.

In essence it is much easier for an 18 handicapper to shoot 82 than a 10 handicapper to shoot par

ForeRight

Anyone that comes in with 40+ during the winter should be cut.
Card should be sent to hone club secretary and cut on observation.
I know of a lad off 26 shooting 40-45 with scratches every week during the winter.

45 with 2 scratches is absolutely outrageous scoring and is no way just a good day at the office. Especially not when it's becoming regular.

During the summer he shoots in the 20's more often than even getting near 36.

n2o

ForeRight wrote: »

Anyone that comes in with 40+ during the winter should be cut.
Card should be sent to hone club secretary and cut on observation.
I know of a lad off 26 shooting 40-45 with scratches every week during the winter.

45 with 2 scratches is absolutely outrageous scoring and is no way just a good day at the office. Especially not when it's becoming regular.

During the summer he shoots in the 20's more often than even getting near 36.

That's completely different. You're describing someone who is managing their handicap. They need to be taken aside.

ForeRight

n2o wrote: »

That's completely different. You're describing someone who is managing their handicap. They need to be taken aside.

But this is the thing. He isn't managing his handicap. I've seen him in casual rounds and he is all over the place. I'm yet to witness one of these special rounds for myself and only see the cards.

Strange that I suppose.

irishtoffee

Same in my club,I'm convinced we've the best high handicappers in world golf.

scrubber72

Lift clean and drop or place can have a huge impact on a score. Any big score i have had was when relief was in place. Also a lot if courses cut back rough just before the winter and with little growth many courses become very open to high scores. I personally don't put any merit as such in comps when relief is in place.

m r c

ForeRight wrote: »

But this is the thing. He isn't managing his handicap. I've seen him in casual rounds and he is all over the place. I'm yet to witness one of these special rounds for myself and only see the cards.

Strange that I suppose.

Oh! What you are describing there is a heck of a lot worse.
We all know of people whom never have a bad lie but yer man is a total tosser.

ShriekingSheet

This time of year, the tees are forward, the lies can be tee'd up, and there's no pressure down the stretch to close out a score, as there would be in the likes of a medal. The ball also sticks like a dart in the green. Scores are going to be lower naturally, because conditions are far easier.

In the season, big scores need to be looked at in relation to SSS (let's leave CSS aside for the sake of simplicity). People only ever complainin reference to the points score. But if it's taking 43 points to win most weeks in Dublin City, and 40 to win in the Castle, the SSS/CSS in those courses are 39 and 36, which means they're the same score in terms of handicap.

It makes sense, when you take into account the amount of gimme 3 pointers in somewhere like Dublin City, and a course like the Castle, where even the short holes can bite you off the tee, or via the tricky set-up around the greens.

In my opinion and experience, between -3 and -6 of SSS (not just 36) is fair enough to regularly win in regular conditions in a singles comp, and the odd freak result must also be accepted on top of that. That winning score will look different in the European Club versus Corrstown, but the handicap system is making a reasonable stab at balancing the two in terms of the performance of the players.

All that said, there are certain courses with a SSS that doesn't seem right, but all members on that course have their handicaps measured by the same barometer, so it should be a level playing field.

It boils down to this. It's more common for high scores to be the result of an easy course, rather than dodgy handicaps. If you can't shoot the lights out on an easy course once or twice a year, your handicap is too low.

There are exceptions. But that's my opinion in the general sense.

BigChap1759

Is it just me or has this not been done to death several times??:rolleyes:

For Paws

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

This time of year, the tees are forward, the lies can be tee'd up, and there's no pressure down the stretch to close out a score, as there would be in the likes of a medal. The ball also sticks like a dart in the green. Scores are going to be lower naturally, because conditions are far easier.

In the season, big scores need to be looked at in relation to SSS (let's leave CSS aside for the sake of simplicity). People only ever complainin reference to the points score. But if it's taking 43 points to win most weeks in Dublin City, and 40 to win in the Castle, the SSS/CSS in those courses are 39 and 36, which means they're the same score in terms of handicap.

It makes sense, when you take into account the amount of gimme 3 pointers in somewhere like Dublin City, and a course like the Castle, where even the short holes can bite you off the tee, or via the tricky set-up around the greens.

In my opinion and experience, between -3 and -6 of SSS (not just 36) is fair enough to regularly win in regular conditions in a singles comp, and the odd freak result must also be accepted on top of that. That winning score will look different in the European Club versus Corrstown, but the handicap system is making a reasonable stab at balancing the two in terms of the performance of the players.

All that said, there are certain courses with a SSS that doesn't seem right, but all members on that course have their handicaps measured by the same barometer, so it should be a level playing field.

It boils down to this. It's more common for high scores to be the result of an easy course, rather than dodgy handicaps. If you can't shoot the lights out on an easy course once or twice a year, your handicap is too low.

There are exceptions. But that's my opinion in the general sense.

+1

TheGolfer01

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Is it just me or has this not been done to death several times??:rolleyes:

No it's not just you, but it's always the case that the OP doesn't consider the variable seasonal factors.

ForeRight

TheGolfer01 wrote: »

No it's not just you, but it's always the case that the OP doesn't consider the variable seasonal factors.

I think the seasonal factors are obvious and I did indeed consider them.

I repeat 45 points with 2 scratches included. Seasonal or not that is just ridiculous scoring IMO.

Especially when it's happened on more than one occasion with the same person and he is yet to be cut on observation even at his home club comps.

Rippeditup

I remember when I was younger shooting a 66 (-5) gross (-8) nett and not even getting a prize also done something similar against a 20 handicapper in matchplay one day and lost on 17. It really puts you off playing local competitions when no matter how well you play you don't have a chance.

billy3sheets

I won a Medal with a nett 71. Is that ridiculous too?

ForeRight

billy3sheets wrote: »

I won a Medal with a nett 71. Is that ridiculous too?

Well done

mike12

I shot 48 points off 18 and 45 off 10. Both were days when every putt went in and i didn't duff a shot all round. Both were crappy stableford comps.
I won a captains prize with a nett 69 when i thought i would be well off the pace on a perfect summers day.
Freak results happen everyone has a super round at some stage doing it more than once a season is the tough part.

Mike

BigChap1759

Rippeditup wrote: »

I remember when I was younger shooting a 66 (-5) gross (-8) nett and not even getting a prize also done something similar against a 20 handicapper in matchplay one day and lost on 17. It really puts you off playing local competitions when no matter how well you play you don't have a chance.

Any you deserved a prize why?

rafared

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Is it just me or has this not been done to death several times??:rolleyes:

Yep many times. Can be summed up like this:-

The golf handicap system is rife with corruption, handicap managers and bandits. It will continue because it is ignored by the GUI and by many handicap secs. I worked on a committee and saw it in action first hand.
A captain who didn't want players cut because he wanted to do well in inter club comps and his mate spending the previous two years going out 4 shots to win that Captains (his mates) prize. Which he duly did by at a canter.
We also had two incidents of blatant cheating, one where a card was binned and replaced and one where a player used a card that wasnt his.
The GUI wanted nothing to do with either incident. The home club of the fake card user ignored our communication.
Slowly many players are giving up playing in comps especially team comps or are joining in the "game" because everyone is doing it now. 36 points now needed to win a 12 or 13 hole competition.
The system is rotten to the core and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

Batman101

The scoring in my club is ridiculous! During the Christmas a lad playing off 15 for a 14 holes singles had 40 points and that was with a scratch! Crazy! The place is full of bandits. Its the same lads every winter that are winning and in the summer they are only playing for the .1. Many times last year I brought in 39 and 40 and never even featured in the prizes. I was cut a total of 6 shots in the year but hardly got anything for it!

Pacly

I know someone who won a competition last summer with 48 points off 12. It was genuine though, he had it the week before Presidents!

rafared

Pacly wrote: »

I know someone who won a competition last summer with 48 points off 12. It was genuine though, he had it the week before Presidents!

Thats 12 under his handicap. What makes it genuine exactly? What does that mean?

Rikand

If he was "dodgy" surely he would have waited till the Presidents to shoot that score. Someone who shoots that the week before the Presidents is clearly out to shoot their best score whenever they can.

spacecoyote

3 Ball aggregate won in my place this weekend with a score of 120, think handicaps were 23,24,26 something like that. Thats averaging 40 points each, on a team of 3 high handicappers. Admittedly it was placing everywhere, but it wasn't like one of them put in a score of 46 points and the others just topped it up. They scored 39,40,41.

I try not to be cynical, but its not the easiest thing to do sometimes!!!

Rikand

Best silly score I have seen this season is 43 points for 15 holes. Shot by a guy playing off 12.

This guy hits it further than I do ( i play off 5 ) - but he's WILD!!! Could be absolutely anywhere. Winter rules, he's laughing and by all accounts he had an unreal day on the greens

spacecoyote

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

If he was "dodgy" surely he would have waited till the Presidents to shoot that score. Someone who shoots that the week before the Presidents is clearly out to shoot their best score whenever they can.

Not sure I agree with that. You could look down the route of people can put in a monster score, not get cut & pick up some GUI vouchers as prizes to pay off their annual sub

(Jeez, two in a row, I really am a cynical ba$tard)

thewobbler

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

This time of year, the tees are forward, the lies can be tee'd up, and there's no pressure down the stretch to close out a score, as there would be in the likes of a medal. The ball also sticks like a dart in the green. Scores are going to be lower naturally, because conditions are far easier.

In the season, big scores need to be looked at in relation to SSS (let's leave CSS aside for the sake of simplicity). People only ever complainin reference to the points score. But if it's taking 43 points to win most weeks in Dublin City, and 40 to win in the Castle, the SSS/CSS in those courses are 39 and 36, which means they're the same score in terms of handicap.

It makes sense, when you take into account the amount of gimme 3 pointers in somewhere like Dublin City, and a course like the Castle, where even the short holes can bite you off the tee, or via the tricky set-up around the greens.

In my opinion and experience, between -3 and -6 of SSS (not just 36) is fair enough to regularly win in regular conditions in a singles comp, and the odd freak result must also be accepted on top of that. That winning score will look different in the European Club versus Corrstown, but the handicap system is making a reasonable stab at balancing the two in terms of the performance of the players.

All that said, there are certain courses with a SSS that doesn't seem right, but all members on that course have their handicaps measured by the same barometer, so it should be a level playing field.

It boils down to this. It's more common for high scores to be the result of an easy course, rather than dodgy handicaps. If you can't shoot the lights out on an easy course once or twice a year, your handicap is too low.

There are exceptions. But that's my opinion in the general sense.

+1

Too much sense in this post though for people who just want a gripe.

ShriekingSheet

rafared wrote: »

Yep many times. Can be summed up like this:-

The golf handicap system is rife with corruption, handicap managers and bandits. It will continue because it is ignored by the GUI and by many handicap secs. I worked on a committee and saw it in action first hand.
A captain who didn't want players cut because he wanted to do well in inter club comps and his mate spending the previous two years going out 4 shots to win that Captains (his mates) prize. Which he duly did by at a canter.
We also had two incidents of blatant cheating, one where a card was binned and replaced and one where a player used a card that wasnt his.
The GUI wanted nothing to do with either incident. The home club of the fake card user ignored our communication.
Slowly many players are giving up playing in comps especially team comps or are joining in the "game" because everyone is doing it now. 36 points now needed to win a 12 or 13 hole competition.
The system is rotten to the core and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

Rotten to the core? Speak for your own club mate.

Making a call on the the nationwide handicap system based on your own handful of anicdotes in one golf club is far from "summing up" the debate.

Senna

Off topic but quick question, can you not get cut during winter, but you can get a +1?

jukebox2310

50 pts for a 19 handicap in club at weekend. Same fella shot 51 pts late last year and worst of all won golfer of year.

rafared

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Rotten to the core? Speak for your own club mate.

Making a call on the the nationwide handicap system based on your own handful of anicdotes in one golf club is far from "summing up" the debate.

Yes rotten to the core in many if not all clubs. Mate.
Ive seen it first hand at three clubs. Have real mates who are members of several other clubs who say the same. Both my father and father in law are members of two other clubs and all will tell you the same. Bought a club from a guy on adverts a couple of days ago and funnily he said the same....doesnt even bother with comps anymore because of rampant cheating. As he said himself you need to be "a good 18" to enter these things.All clubs have them and its rife through the game. I know it wont be what you want to hear but sure what would I know?
Its typical of you to make a smug what "would you know post" all the time. Its your standard response to anything you dont happen to agree with.
They instances I related are not anicdotes by the way, they are quick references to actual events that happened that I was directly involved with and saw first hand what the GUI do when these types of things happen. What they do by the way is nothing.

ABitofsense

A mate of mine put 50 points in over the Christmas too and he is off 23. He is far from a bandit.
He is a long hitter of the tee so when the tees are forward, placing everywhere and rough is gone and you have less than 100 yards for most of your 2nd shots there is something wrong if you are not breaking 36 with winter rules. I'm off 20 and have put in a couple of 40+ round in too but when the summer comes we would be lucky to break 36 as we would be punished more for wayward shots.

ShriekingSheet summed it up perfectly really.

Rikand

Senna wrote: »

Off topic but quick question, can you not get cut during winter, but you can get a +1?

if you get a 0.1 back, check your golfnet.ie account. It's possible it could be a competitions from way earlier in the year. I got a 0.1 back in January from a competition I played in September

Also, you CAN get cut, but it depends how active your handicap secretary is and if you're scoring consistently under your handicap. I'm on the handicaps committee in athlone and I think the corresspondance we got from Enda Lonergan is that if someone has 3 scores since 2013 started that are exceptional, he can be cut. Now it depends on your terms of "exceptional" but we have a couple of fellas in Athlone we are gonna 'get' , that have shot some seriously exceptional scores this January and February

Senna

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

if you get a 0.1 back, check your golfnet.ie account. It's possible it could be a competitions from way earlier in the year. I got a 0.1 back in January from a competition I played in September

I did get a +.1 and it was definitely over winter, never played in a comp before Christmas:D.

GreeBo

rafared wrote: »

Its typical of you to make a smug what "would you know post" all the time. Its your standard response to anything you dont happen to agree with.

Attack the post, not the poster.

sydneybound

Admittedly I have gone from a 16 handicap to 11 in one season then down to 8 the next. In the season from 16 - 11 I won my fair share however nothing big, just regular stableford weekend comps but they do add up. The next season I came in with a couple of good scores and got down to 8. For the last two/three years I haven't been remotely close to winning.

In the last year I have played in 7 competitions (member of UK club and they have comps once a month, dont get me started...)
In three competitions I played to my handicap.
In one I played under my handicap and got cut.
The other three I played over my handicap and went up .3. It all evened itself out.

Even if I shot a few shots under my handicap I know I would never have a hope in hell of winning the overall competition. I'm looking to play to my handicap and if I do, go come delighted. If I happen to really score I only look to do well in my category and not overall.

IMO overall competitions should be limited to big comps/club majors and for regular weeks there should be simply three categories winners in handicaps 0 - 9, 10 - 18 & 19+

ShriekingSheet

rafared wrote: »

Yes rotten to the core in many if not all clubs. Mate.
Ive seen it first hand at three clubs. Have real mates who are members of several other clubs who say the same. Both my father and father in law are members of two other clubs and all will tell you the same. Bought a club from a guy on adverts a couple of days ago and funnily he said the same....doesnt even bother with comps anymore because of rampant cheating. As he said himself you need to be "a good 18" to enter these things.All clubs have them and its rife through the game. I know it wont be what you want to hear but sure what would I know?
Its typical of you to make a smug what "would you know post" all the time. Its your standard response to anything you dont happen to agree with.
They instances I related are not anicdotes by the way, they are quick references to actual events that happened that I was directly involved with and saw first hand what the GUI do when these types of things happen. What they do by the way is nothing.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way.

Your contribution amounts to claiming everyone who wins is a "cheater", and anyone who believes otherwise is "deluded". That's not going to go unchallenged. You're basically calling all of us on this board who compete every week muppets.

Fair enough, there are certain clubs where cheating is rife, but extrapolating that to Irish golf is nonsense.

If you're in one of the cheating clubs, I'm sorry for your trouble. If you're one of the many, many golfers who've plateaued at a handicap, and for whatever reason don't get days where you can barely miss, then you need to do something to improve, or as you say yourself, just enjoy playing casually.

Some people feel entitled to win just because they play a game every Saturday, and if they don't win, think the guys who do must be cheating.

rafared

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Well I'm sorry you feel that way.

Your contribution amounts to claiming everyone who wins is a "cheater", and anyone who believes otherwise is "deluded". That's not going to go unchallenged. You're basically calling all of us on this board who compete every week muppets.

Fair enough, there are certain clubs where cheating is rife, but extrapolating that to Irish golf is nonsense.

If you're in one of the cheating clubs, I'm sorry for your trouble. If you're one of the many, many golfers who've plateaued at a handicap, and for whatever reason don't get days where you can barely miss, then you need to do something to improve, or as you say yourself, just enjoy playing casually.

Some people feel entitled to win just because they play a game every Saturday, and if they don't win, think the guys who do must be cheating.

I didnt say everyones who wins is a cheater. That's just your interpretation on what I said. Maybe you need to read it again.
What I said is that handicap minding and bandits are rife in the game and many others here would agree with that.
You know nothing about my game, handicap or otherwise, nor what type of days I have playing golf......that bolded part is just more of your typical preachy Ivory tower **** you spout on here on a continual basis and has nothing to do with the original post now does it? You think I want sympathy from you? Sure if it helps you feel high and mighty to condescend continually to people sure go ahead.
The last sentence of your post really shows you up. You should really think more before you post such drivel.

BigChap1759

rafared wrote: »

I didnt say everyones who wins is a cheater. That's just your interpretation on what I said. Maybe you need to read it again.
What I said is that handicap minding and bandits are rife in the game and many others here would agree with that.
You know nothing about my game, handicap or otherwise, nor what type of days I have playing golf......that bolded part is just more of your typical preachy Ivory tower **** you spout on here on a continual basis and has nothing to do with the original post now does it? You think I want sympathy from you? Sure if it helps you feel high and mighty to condescend continually to people sure go ahead.
The last sentence of your post really shows you up. You should really think more before you post such drivel.

To be honest I think a lot of the regulars are just fed up of people constantly starting posts moaning about bandits, builders and general skullduggery......it gets boring after a while:rolleyes:

Corkblowin

rafared wrote: »

I didnt say everyones who wins is a cheater. That's just your interpretation on what I said. Maybe you need to read it again.
What I said is that handicap minding and bandits are rife in the game and many others here would agree with that.
You know nothing about my game, handicap or otherwise, nor what type of days I have playing golf......that bolded part is just more of your typical preachy Ivory tower **** you spout on here on a continual basis and has nothing to do with the original post now does it? You think I want sympathy from you? Sure if it helps you feel high and mighty to condescend continually to people sure go ahead.
The last sentence of your post really shows you up. You should really think more before you post such drivel.

If the anger and stress that is apparent in your posts comes out in your golf you can't be having much fun out there. It's a hobby, not a job!

I've said it in other posts on the subject, but if people want a lump of glass so badly they're willing to cheat theres not a lot I can do about it and I'm not going to allow them ruin a game I love. Once I've played to something approaching my own potential then nothing else matters.

rafared

BigChap1759 wrote: »

To be honest I think a lot of the regulars are just fed up of people constantly starting posts moaning about bandits, builders and general skullduggery......it gets boring after a while:rolleyes:

Thats great and I totally agree with you there. Honestly I dont care what other people do. I just posted what I had experienced first hand because I saw how the GUI couldn't careless what went on at club level.

rafared

Corkblowin wrote: »

If the anger and stress that is apparent in your posts comes out in your golf you can't be having much fun out there. It's a hobby, not a job!

I've said it in other posts on the subject, but if people want a lump of glass so badly they're willing to cheat theres not a lot I can do about it and I'm not going to allow them ruin a game I love. Once I've played to something approaching my own potential then nothing else matters.

You can tell all that from two posts? I can assure Im neither stressed nor angry about golf when Im playing or not.
I do take exception to factual information that I posted being referred to as an anecdote from somebody who has a habit of preaching to anybody who doesn't agree with him.

GreeBo

next post that's personal gets a ban.

ShriekingSheet

rafared wrote: »

I didnt say everyones who wins is a cheater. That's just your interpretation on what I said. Maybe you need to read it again.
What I said is that handicap minding and bandits are rife in the game and many others here would agree with that.
You know nothing about my game, handicap or otherwise, nor what type of days I have playing golf......that bolded part is just more of your typical preachy Ivory tower **** you spout on here on a continual basis and has nothing to do with the original post now does it? You think I want sympathy from you? Sure if it helps you feel high and mighty to condescend continually to people sure go ahead.
The last sentence of your post really shows you up. You should really think more before you post such drivel.

Would you go for a walk or get some air or something?

Golf isn't "rotten to the core" just because you, your father in law and a guy you met from adverts have agreed that it is.

There's thousands of us out every weekend competing in our clubs, comfortable in the understanding that it is largely a fair game. We're not "deluded".

Arsenium

Back slightly on topic. In my previous club I, played in a competition during the summer in howling wind and heavy rain. Struggled to 31 points and wondered what the css would be, given the conditions.Anyway,31 points came second. To a score of 50 points!! For some reason I was given the first prize and I heard no more about the other score. I realised that day about the clowns you can run into who have no regard for the game or dare I say it pride in themselves.

FixdePitchmark

Arsenium wrote: »

Back slightly on topic. In my previous club I, played in a competition during the summer in howling wind and heavy rain. Struggled to 31 points and wondered what the css would be, given the conditions.Anyway,31 points came second. To a score of 50 points!! For some reason I was given the first prize and I heard no more about the other score. I realised that day about the clowns you can run into who have no regard for the game or dare I say it pride in themselves.

:D:D:D