The next Pope

branie

I know it's a bit early to speculate, but who's it tipped to be?

toomevara

This is a great opportunity for the church. Hopefully a less illiberal, reactionary candidate will be chosen. We need to advance the liberal catholic agenda and have a candidate who will seriously attempt to address fundamental issues such as priestly celibacy and female ordination. Alas there are few in the college of cardinals who will represent these questions despite the fact that in my experience most practicing catholics believe them to be a necessary and welcome step forward.. Someone like Cardinal Martini would have made a great pope but alas too late....

totus tuus

Contenders to be his successor include Cardinal Angelo Scola, archbishop of Milan, Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, the archbishop of Vienna, and Cardinal Marc Ouellet, the Canadian head of the Vatican's office for bishops.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_22563195/pope-benedict-xvi-resigns-what-happens-next

Benny_Cake

According to Paddy Power, the 3 favourites are Marc Ouellet of Canada, Peter Turkson of Ghana, and Francis Arinze of Nigeria. It's a little early to be putting on bets!

Manach

Sadly my dreams of making a fortune creating a betting site for the Papal elections have literally gone up in smoke given this site has already been taken: http://www.whitesmoke.com/

Keylem

The Holy Spirit has guided the Church for 2,000 years and will continue to do so! Trust in God for He is in charge!

fisgon

Keylem wrote: »

The Holy Spirit has guided the Church for 2,000 years and will continue to do so!

Sorry, but do you really believe this? I'm wondering where the holy spirit was, to take only a few of many possible examples, during the Inquisition, or in this country in the last fifty years. Was he asleep?

I'm also interested to know if many Catholics agree with Gina Menzies, that the holy spirit is really involved in the choosing of a pope, or whether, as seems obvious, the choice of a new pontiff is a function of politics, personal preferences among the cardinals and good networking on behalf of the successful candidate.

Manach

People are given a free will to choose whether or not to list to the angels of their better nature, and are not random automans. Historically speaking, given the length of the Church and even from the beginning, 1/12th of the initial management picks was less than optimal the Church has been a foundation of civilisation and grace in most cases than whatever transient political grouping held the reigns of power.

youtube!

toomevara wrote: »

This is a great opportunity for the church. Hopefully a less illiberal, reactionary candidate will be chosen. We need to advance the liberal catholic agenda and have a candidate who will seriously attempt to address fundamental issues such as priestly celibacy and female ordination. Alas there are few in the college of cardinals who will represent these questions despite the fact that in my experience most practicing catholics believe them to be a necessary and welcome step forward.. Someone like Cardinal Martini would have made a great pope but alas too late....

?

Dades

youtube! wrote: »

?

Less illiberal.

Iomega Man

Well I learned a new word today anyway...

youtube!

Me too !:)

Juza1973

toomevara wrote: »

This is a great opportunity for the church. Hopefully a less illiberal, reactionary candidate will be chosen. We need to advance the liberal catholic agenda and have a candidate who will seriously attempt to address fundamental issues such as priestly celibacy and female ordination. Alas there are few in the college of cardinals who will represent these questions despite the fact that in my experience most practicing catholics believe them to be a necessary and welcome step forward.. Someone like Cardinal Martini would have made a great pope but alas too late....

Thanks God the Church is not a democracy! The last thing I would like is hearing, instead of words of Truth, buzzwords like the ones from politicians and businessmen, speaking to represent people that hate to be represented by them.

toomevara

Juza1973 wrote: »

Thanks God the Church is not a democracy! The last thing I would like is hearing, instead of words of Truth, buzzwords like the ones from politicians and businessmen, speaking to represent people that hate to be represented by them.

Granted the catholic church is not a democracy, but we should also remember that the hierarchy are not the church either. We,all of us together, lay and ordained constitute the congregation that make up the church and our views should be reflected. I guess what I'm looking for, like many long-suffering catholics, is less of the 'roman' and more of the 'catholic' in how the church conducts its affairs.

Juza1973

toomevara wrote: »

Granted the catholic church is not a democracy, but we should also remember that the hierarchy are not the church either. We,all of us together, lay and ordained constitute the congregation that make up the church and our views should be reflected. I guess what I'm looking for, like many long-suffering catholics, is less of the 'roman' and more of the 'catholic' in how the church conducts its affairs.

My views are not reflected in the politicians that I vote for and who should reply to me! I don't choose the people in my Parish, they just happen to live in my same area. Why should they have a say? In am in the Church for will of Christ, and I am do not look forward to a political commissioner bully to tell me what to do.

Cardinal Richelieu

Benny_Cake wrote: »

According to Paddy Power, the 3 favourites are Marc Ouellet of Canada, Peter Turkson of Ghana, and Francis Arinze of Nigeria. It's a little early to be putting on bets!

Francis Arinze is 81 this year and considering that Benedict XVI was the 5th oldest Pope elected at 78 I don't think Arinze is a serious choice. Marc Quellet is 79 in June and Pope Benedict comments about the demands of the role might sway them to go for a Pope in his 60s, Wiki does list the average age of popes that reigned from the 1700s to 2005 as 65.

Benny_Cake

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Francis Arinze is 81 this year and considering that Benedict XVI was the 5th oldest Pope elected at 78 I don't think Arinze is a serious choice. Marc Quellet is 79 in June and Pope Benedict comments about the demands of the role might sway them to go for a Pope in his 60s, Wiki does list the average age of popes that reigned from the 1700s to 2005 as 65.

Agreed, I was surprised to see Arinze there at all as he has been spoken about as a potential "next pope" for well over two decades now. The only reason I would see them picking an older candidate is if they simply want a safe pair of hands for the next few years. In many ways though, that's why they chose Benedict so I'd be surprised if it wasn't a younger man.

totus tuus

I would imagine that the current Pope will influence the decision on who will be his successor!

Cardinal Richelieu

totus tuus wrote: »

I would imagine that the current Pope will influence the decision on who will be his successor!

Every Pope does as they pick and choose some of the Cardinals. Pope Benedict XVI has elected 65 of the 118 Cardinals who can vote for pope.

Doc Farrell

Timothy Dolan of NY, I think his mammy is Irish. Or the cardinal of Vienna.

3ndahalfof6

Twill be interesting to find out why he is really quiting, I know this might take 50 to 550yrs but it will still be interesting.

Doc Farrell

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Twill be interesting to find out why he is really quiting, I know this might take 50 to 550yrs but it will still be interesting.

I guess no shares my view that he retired for the reasons he gave?
In fairness I wish I was a conspiracy theorist today.... it makes for interesting pondering.

tony81

Will he remain a bishop?

3ndahalfof6

Doc Farrell wrote: »

I guess no shares my view that he retired for the reasons he gave?
In fairness I wish I was a conspiracy theorist today.... it makes for interesting pondering.

Pondering is just wasting your time on this road to the next life, step up to the plate and go with your convictions, leave the pondering for the wind.

Cardinal Richelieu

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Twill be interesting to find out why he is really quiting, I know this might take 50 to 550yrs but it will still be interesting.

They can always put him on trial in a couple of 100 years if he is found to have done something wrong.

3ndahalfof6

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

They can always put him on trial in a couple of 100 years if he is found to have done something wrong.

Ya gota love stem cell treatment, we will keep them here in this place of nothingness but with all the comforts of everythingness till we know the truth, that is all.

Cardinal Richelieu

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Ya gota love stem cell treatment, we will keep them here in this place of nothingness but with all the comforts of everythingness till we know the truth, that is all.

I was more thinking of digging him up and putting him on trial.

3ndahalfof6

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I was more thinking of digging him up and putting him on trial.

I was thinking more of what might turn up for the need for him to go on trial, I would rather see facial expressions than a white skull, that is all.

Manach

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I was more thinking of digging him up and putting him on trial.

Well since we are digging up off-topic references, from what I know of the Soviet-era trials, at least it would only be confined to the accused and not anyone who had a nodding relationship with the accused.

Cardinal Richelieu

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

I was thinking more of what might turn up for the need for him to go on trial, I would rather see facial expressions than a white skull, that is all.

Ahh but why break with a Vatican tradition? Surely a cadaver and a show trial would be more fun for conspiracy theorists. He is an 85 year old man in visible ill health yet there is always a hidden reason.

Cardinal Richelieu

Manach wrote: »

Well since we are digging up off-topic references, from what I know of the Soviet-era trials, at least it would only be confined to the accused and not anyone who had a nodding relationship with the accused.

Not off topic, Cadaver Synod . Papel History always makes interesting reading.

farna_boy

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Francis Arinze is 81 this year and considering that Benedict XVI was the 5th oldest Pope elected at 78 I don't think Arinze is a serious choice. Marc Quellet is 79 in June and Pope Benedict comments about the demands of the role might sway them to go for a Pope in his 60s, Wiki does list the average age of popes that reigned from the 1700s to 2005 as 65.

Also, don't you have to be under 80 years to be elected pope?

Silvio.Dante

I've just discovered that the Archbishop of Manila, Luis Antonio Tagle, was appointed Cardinal late last year.



Now that would be a very special Papacy for all who are impoverished, dispossessed and are without a voice in this, cold, greedy capitalist world...

Cardinal Richelieu

farna_boy wrote: »

Also, don't you have to be under 80 years to be elected pope?

Nope, you have to be under 80 to elect a pope but you can be elected pope if your over 80.

Manach

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Papel History always makes interesting reading.

In that I'd agree: for both good and ill. I've meaning to start on Julian Norwich's "The Popes" myself.

newmug

@ Cardinal Richelieu, will ya be in the running for it yourself?

Cardinal Richelieu

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I've just discovered that the Archbishop of Manila, Luis Antonio Tagle, was appointed Cardinal late last year.



Now that would be a very special Papacy for all who are impoverished, dispossessed and are without a voice in this, cold, greedy capitalist world...

They were tipping him on RTE Radio. He seems to tick the boxes for a modern young media pope.

Cardinal Richelieu

newmug wrote: »

@ Cardinal Richelieu, will ya be in the running for it yourself?

Nah much too sanitized these days for me, you can't even rig the voting like the good old days.

Benny_Cake

Doc Farrell wrote: »

I guess no shares my view that he retired for the reasons he gave?
In fairness I wish I was a conspiracy theorist today.... it makes for interesting pondering.

What,you believe that an 85 year old man retired because his health isn't what it was? That's crazy!

3ndahalfof6

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Ahh but why break with a Vatican tradition? Surely a cadaver and a show trial would be more fun for conspiracy theorists. He is an 85 year old man in visible ill health yet there is always a hidden reason.

Some say he could be the second cousin of Ronald Regan, just some, that is all.

Silvio.Dante

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

They were tipping him on RTE Radio. He seems to tick the boxes for a modern young media pope.

He is a wonderful communicator but does not dilute his core beliefs in the Catholic faith to appease the Liberal Agenda.

A man of immense compassion. It would be too good to be true to think he'll get it but there is hope...:)

3ndahalfof6

Benny_Cake wrote: »

What,you believe that an 85 year old man retired because his health isn't what it was? That's crazy!

Has there been many times that this has happened, a pope retire? I thought most if not all of them hung in there till they died, just to get their wings, that is all.

mdebets

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Nope, you have to be under 80 to elect a pope but you can be elected pope if your over 80.

Not 100% correct.
You have to not be over 80 on the day before the pope retires or dies.
So this time, you will have at least one Cardinal (Walter Kasper), who will be 80, when the papal conclave starts (His birthday is 5th March, so he is still 79, when the pope retires on 28th February, but 80, when the conclave starts).

Benny_Cake

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Has there been many times that this has happened, a pope retire? I thought most if not all of them hung in there till they died, just to get their wings, that is all.

It's extremely rare, but he has probably set down a marker for future popes and I could see it becoming the norm. For all the praise JPII won for his courage in dealing with his illness, he was obviously too ill to physically deal with the pressures of such a demanding position in his final years. In this day and age, an elderly man stepping aside from his post because he doesn't feel able to continue shouldn't be anything unusual.

3ndahalfof6

Benny_Cake wrote: »

It's extremely rare, but he has probably set down a marker for future popes and I could see it becoming the norm. For all the praise JPII won for his courage in dealing with his illness, he was obviously too ill to physically deal with the pressures of such a demanding position in his final years. In this day and age, an elderly man stepping aside from his post because he doesn't feel able to continue shouldn't be anything unusual.

I would agree with this if we were talking about mere mortals, but we are thought this may not be the case, that is all.

Doc Farrell

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

He is a wonderful communicator but does not dilute his core beliefs in the Catholic faith to appease the Liberal Agenda.

A man of immense compassion. It would be too good to be true to think he'll get it but there is hope...:)

A good pick. I'll still go with Cardinal Dolan, first US/Irish Pope! Unlikely if I actually think about it, but that's not a problem around here!

I think Benny Cake should be sent to Rome as our man on the ground. Give him a break from the loonies round here!

Cardinal Richelieu

If say the Vatican decides to return to form and go for a younger pope than Benedict 78 years, the below should be in contention(I eliminated Cardinals that could vote but born in the 1930s so potential candidates are 73 or under). The experts here could probably knock a few names off the list that haven't a hope.

1. Bechara Boutros al-Rahi (Lebanon)born 25 February 1940 - Patriarch of Antioch (Maronite Catholic Church)
2. Vinko Puljić (Bosnia and Herzegovina)born 8 September 1945 - Archbishop of Vrhbosna (Sarajevo)
3. Polycarp Pengo (Tanzania)born 5 August 1944 - Archbishop of Dar-es-Salaam
4. Christoph Schönborn; OP (Austria)born 22 January 1945 - Archbishop of Vienna
5. Norberto Rivera Carrera (Mexico)born 6 June 1942 - Archbishop of Mexico
6. Crescenzio Sepe (Italy) born 2 June 1943 - Archbishop of Naples
7. Wilfrid Fox Napier (South Africa) born 8 March 1941 - Archbishop of Durban
8. Oscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga; SDB (Honduras) - born 29 December 1942 - Archbishop of Tegucigalpa
9. Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne (Peru) born 28 December 1943 - Archbishop of Lima
10. Angelo Scola (Italy) - born 7 November 1941 - Archbishop of Milan
11. Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson (Ghana) born 11 October 1948 - President of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace
12. George Pell (Australia) - born 8 April 1941 - Archbishop of Sydney
13. Josip Bozanić (Croatia) - born 20 March 1949 - Archbishop of Zagreb
14. Philippe Barbarin (France) born 17 October 1950 - Archbishop of Lyon
15. Péter Erdő (Hungary) born 25 June 1952 - Archbishop of Esztergom-Budapest
16. Marc Ouellet (Canada) born 8 June 1944 - Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops
17. Agostino Vallini (Italy) born 17 April 1940 - Vicar General for the Diocese of Rome
18. Jorge Urosa (Venezuela) born 28 August 1942 - Archbishop of Caracas
19. Jean-Pierre Ricard (France) - born 25 September 1944 - Archbishop of Bordeaux
20. Antonio Cañizares Llovera (Spain) born 15 October 1945 - Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments
21. Seán Patrick O'Malley (United States) born 29 June 1944 - Archbishop of Boston
22. André Armand Vingt-Trois (France) born 7 November 1942 - Archbishop of Paris
23. Angelo Bagnasco (Italy) born 14 January 1943 - Archbishop of Genoa
24. Oswald Gracias (India) born 24 December 1944 - Archbishop of Bombay
25. Francisco Robles Ortega (Mexico) born 2 March 1949 - Archbishop of Guadalajara
26. Daniel DiNardo (United States) born 23 May 1949 - Archbishop of Galveston-Houston
27. Odilo Pedro Scherer (Brazil) - born 21 September 1949 - Archbishop of São Paulo
28. John Njue (Kenya) - born 1944 - Archbishop of Nairobi
29. Donald William Wuerl (United States) - born 12 November 1940 - Archbishop of Washington
30. Kazimierz Nycz (Poland) - born 1 February 1950 - Archbishop of Warsaw
31. Patabendige Don Albert Malcolm Ranjith (Sri Lanka) - born 15 November 1947 - Archbishop of Colombo
32. Reinhard Marx (Germany) - born 21 September 1953 - Archbishop of Munich and Freising
33. George Alencherry (India) - born 19 April 1945 - Major Archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly (Syro-Malabar Catholic Church)
34. Thomas Christopher Collins (Canada) - born 16 January 1947 - Archbishop of Toronto
35. Dominik Duka; OP (Czech Republic)born 26 April 1943 - Archbishop of Prague
36. Willem Jacobus Eijk (Netherlands)born 22 June 1953 - Archbishop of Utrecht
37. Giuseppe Betori (Italy)born 25 February 1947 - Archbishop of Florence
38. Timothy M. Dolan (United States)born 6 February 1950 - Archbishop of New York
39. Rainer Maria Woelki (Germany)born 18 August 1956 - Archbishop of Berlin
40. Baselios Cleemis (India)born 15 June 1959 - Major Archbishop of Trivandrum (Syro-Malankara Catholic Church)
41. John Onaiyekan (Nigeria)born 29 January 1944 - Archbishop of Abuja
42. Rubén Salazar Gómez (Colombia)born 22 September 1942 - Archbishop of Bogotá
43. Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines)born 21 June 1957 - Archbishop of Manila
44. Jean-Louis Tauran (France)born 3 April 1943 - President of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue
45. Leonardo Sandri (Argentina)born 18 November 1943 - Prefect of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches
46. Angelo Comastri (Italy)born 17 September 1943
47. Stanisław Ryłko (Poland)born 4 July 1945
48. Robert Sarah (Guinea)born 15 June 1945
49. Raymond Leo Burke (United States) born 30 June 1948
50. Kurt Koch (Switzerland) born 15 March 1950
51. Mauro Piacenza (Italy) born 15 September 1944
52. Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy) born 18 October 1942
53. Fernando Filoni (Italy) born 15 April 1946
54. Giuseppe Bertello (Italy) born 1 October 1942
55. João Braz de Aviz (Brazil) born 24 April 1947
56. Domenico Calcagno (Italy) born 3 February 1943
57. Giuseppe Versaldi (Italy) born 30 July 1943
58. James Michael Harvey (United States) born 20 October 1949

I am swinging more to a South American Pope, the American Cardinals have the child sex scandals so might support a compromise South American candidate. The Italians if they can't carry enough votes for an Italian Pope could weigh in behind a South American with Italian heritage(Leonardo Sandri parents were Italian). The South American and Central American Churches could do with the boost of a Latin American Pope to help fight the growing threat from Evangelist churches.

endacl

Sorry. Outsider inquiry here...

Surely whoever is chosen will be the right pope by definition? College of cardinals + holy spirit = correct choice and all that?

Is there room for dissent? For example, I am male and was baptized. I could theoretically be the next pope. Habame endacl?!?

If, in a massive explosion of improbability I was chosen to be pope, would I, by default, be the right choice, and could catholics in good standing officially disagree/refuse to recognise me?

tommy2bad

endacl wrote: »

Sorry. Outsider inquiry here...

Surely whoever is chosen will be the right pope by definition? College of cardinals + holy spirit = correct choice and all that?

Is there room for dissent? For example, I am male and was baptized. I could theoretically be the next pope. Habame endacl?!?

If, in a massive explosion of improbability I was chosen to be pope, would I, by default, be the right choice, and could catholics in good standing officially disagree/refuse to recognise me?

Yes you are eligible but it would require a miracle or clerical error for it to happen.
If you were selected then that would be that, anyone not accepting your pontificate would have to move on.
My own wondering is is the pope a product of the church or the church a product of the pope? How much difference dose the man make other than indicating the mood of the church at his election? Conservative church elects conservative, liberal mood and they go for a liberal.
Smoking weed and endacl gets the job.

endacl

tommy2bad wrote: »

Smoking weed and endacl gets the job.

Remember those posters sold on O'Connell Bridge in the 80's/early 90's?

'I like the pope, coz the pope smokes dope!'

Could happen...

newmug

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yes you are eligible but it would require a miracle or clerical error for it to happen.
If you were selected then that would be that, anyone not accepting your pontificate would have to move on.
My own wondering is is the pope a product of the church or the church a product of the pope? How much difference dose the man make other than indicating the mood of the church at his election? Conservative church elects conservative, liberal mood and they go for a liberal.
Smoking weed and endacl gets the job.

I was going to let it go, but.............

ALL Popes are supposed to be the guardians and shepards of the original Church, right the way back from Jesus's time. The Church by default cannot be a product of a Pope, because it is the product of Jesus. The Pope is only the acting boss while Jesus is away. Thats why he cant change stuff. But Popes are NOT Jesus, and they can get things wrong just like anyone else, we are all sinners afterall.