Are we alone.... The answer is ''Yes''

flanna01

Ok... Probably one of the oldest questions going around since the evolution of the thinking man.

Let's examine the facts as we know them.. The Universe, Space, The outer limits, what ever we may refer to the heavens as.... it's one big area with very little material in it. I often doubt if the average 'Joe' in the street can really grasp how massive and empty space really is...

Moving on.... The Earth is around 4.5billion years old, mankind has barely existed on Earth in comparison to that time scale...

The blue dirt ball (Earth), has been transmitting radio waves for less than one hundred years, if the constraints of the speed of light are to be followed, we are not even out of the backyard door yet in terms of distance travelled...

So..... If there was any more advanced civilisation out there, they should / could / would be far more advanced than us.... They would have spotted our atmosphere before we were even out of the ponds...

Instead, we have been listening to 'background noise' to no avail... SETI has discovered nothing in all them years.... If the neighbours were transmitting for millions of years before mankind - surely we would have picked up something....?

My opinion is this (And it is only an opinion, and based on pure speculation)... I don't think for one nano second, that Earth is the only planet to harbour life... That would be ridiculous, bordering on the ignorant... But... because the distances between two inteligently evolved planets is so great, it will always be impossible to make contact with each other, let alone be able to decipher each others communications...

Are we alone in the true sense.... Well yes we are.

Do you agree...?

el dude

No.

That's all I've got.

im invisible

well, seeing as i cant imagine a time when we (people, not just unmanned spacecraft) will leave our solar system, i'd kinda have to agree with you, but i do imagine robots finding signs of microbial life on extra-solar planets in the next what, 500(?) 1,000(?) years, i mean, we're already 13 years into this century...

flanna01

flanna01 wrote: »

Instead, we have been listening to 'background noise' to no avail... SETI has discovered nothing in all them years.... If the neighbours were transmitting for millions of years before mankind - surely we would have picked up something....?

What I'd say to that is, who's to say that other intelligent life is using the same distribution methods that we are? If you try to pick up a digital TV signal with an analogue set, you get noise that looks no different to if there were no signal at all.

So if they're using a system that we don't know about, then we couldn't receive or decode it.

Kxiii

SETI did find the WOW signal so not exactly nothing.

flanna01

Guys.... Some of you are getting your panties up in a bunch...

1) I believe that radio signals are the basic communication tool. kinda like 1, 2, 3...etc. Any evolved intelligent civilisation should pick up on it. If these guys can surpass us by even a thousand years.... They must be the able to decipher our radio waves....?

2) The WOW signal was attributed to a passing space craft - Google it, it's all there for all to see..

3) As previously stated... I have not one shred of a doubt that the Universe has life... The chances of us being the only planet to sustain life is absurd. My question is that ... We will neve experience ET communications because of the vast distances between planets... We are alone guys, and we have to accept it!

im invisible

I think we're alone now, doesn't seem to be anyone around...

slade_x

flanna01 wrote: »

Let's examine the facts as we know them.. The Universe, Space, The outer limits, what ever we may refer to the heavens as.... it's one big area with very little material in it. I often doubt if the average 'Joe' in the street can really grasp how massive and empty space really is...

I dont see how thats of any relevance, we exist dont we, so that observation of the universe is of no significance, furthermore Space is not empty, thats matter

flanna01 wrote: »

Moving on.... The Earth is around 4.5billion years old, mankind has barely existed on Earth in comparison to that time scale...

This planet has seen many extinctions, many of which we know very little about. The question of is there or was there other life in the universe is much deeper in implication than just the present moment.

flanna01 wrote: »

The blue dirt ball (Earth), has been transmitting radio waves for less than one hundred years, if the constraints of the speed of light are to be followed, we are not even out of the backyard door yet in terms of distance travelled...

So..... If there was any more advanced civilisation out there, they should / could / would be far more advanced than us.... They would have spotted our atmosphere before we were even out of the ponds...

Instead, we have been listening to 'background noise' to no avail... SETI has discovered nothing in all them years....

and that is exactly the problem, for us its background noise, if we are truly as isolated in a massive universe, an alien transmission over a vast distance will be almost impossible to distinguish between background noise right now. we are literally bathed in the background radiation of billions of stars and cosmic phenomena and vice versa. all electromagnetic waves are prone to the phenomenon of redshift, light isnt alone in that regard just because it is the most referenced.

Also i dont see why every possible intelligent civilisation has to be more advanced than we are. maybe were the most advanced life technologically due to our location in this galaxy, it has allowed our type of life to evolve and persist relatively unhindered for a very, very, very long time.

flanna01 wrote: »

If the neighbours were transmitting for millions of years before mankind - surely we would have picked up something....?

Thats assuming we havent missed those transmissions already, we havent had radio capabilities for millions of years.

flanna01 wrote: »

My opinion is this (And it is only an opinion, and based on pure speculation)... I don't think for one nano second, that Earth is the only planet to harbour life... That would be ridiculous, bordering on the ignorant... But... because the distances between two inteligently evolved planets is so great, it will always be impossible to make contact with each other, let alone be able to decipher each others communications...

Are we alone in the true sense.... Well yes we are.

Do you agree...?

Absolutely not because in the true sense of the terms of the question if there is other life out there then we are in fact not alone. I think the term isolated would more suit your stance on the matter rather than one of a few dictionary definitions of alone. The only impossibility with regards to communication with another form of life is if there is no other "life" with which to communicate with.

It was impossible for our ancestors to email each other for example, that impossibility for them does not stop us from doing so

Daffodil.d

To get our heads around the vastness of the universe there is a certain amount of imagination required, because we can't see it all and this is the only way to comprehendit. So when we imagine life on other planets we jump straight to advanced beings. Well what if other beings are just at the same point of intelligence as us right now, give or take a few years and what if they've only been trying to communicate as long as us. It is possible.

Doom

Maybe we are the first

Manach

My own opinion coming from a geological POV is that the evolution of intelligent complex life was a very hap-hazard process that involved multiple dependent variables on Earth. So other such life in say this galaxy could exist, but would be both rare and given the brief span of mankind might have already come and gone.

mickmackey1

If we are the only planet with life in the entire universe, then life must have been placed here by an intelligent entity...:eek:

alphabeat

the answer is 200% NO

flanna01

The proof is in the pudding so to speak.....

If a previous race had developed space travel, we would have been like the local toy store - everybody would want to see our planet.

Based on what our closest neighbours are like - Mars, Saturn, Pluto etc... The planet Earth is like Las Vegas in comparison. Can you imagine if we found a similar planet to our own... Full of plants and flowing water... We would explore it, plunder it, and probably set up a base there...

Because the Earth is so rich in organic produce, we would have been targeted a long, long time ago... If there was anyone out there within spitting distance from us (Galatically speaking of course).

I understand that we may not have the tools to intercept / decode communications from a distant civilisation, or that we are only really technically aware for a hundred years or less.... but we still have to accept the reality, that we will live, prosper, and die on this blue dirt ball of ours Alone.

Somebody once said... the ants are an intelligent, structured breed.. yet if you put a cell phone with a operating manual on top of their nest... they would never learn how to use it... Of all the millions of life forms on planet Earth, we have yet to recieve one single text message from a non-human!

I rest my case guys.

As stated previously... I have no doubt, that there are other life forms out there... But they just ain't gonna be knocking on out door anytime soon....

ZeRoY

Depends what you mean by "WE" - other life form in the universe? Hell YES. Other Humans in the universe? I'd say NO

Just Like Heaven

flanna01 wrote: »

As stated previously... I have no doubt, that there are other life forms out there...

In fairness to the posters who 'got their knickers in a twist' your thread title suggests the opposite.

And so what they're not gonna knock on our door? We don't know a lot about any life that might be in the solar system, but I don't think anybody is expecting to find an intelligent super civilisation in our solar system.

ThatDrGuy

There are other factors to consider. Thermodynamics for one. The complexity of a society is proportional to the energy availability to that civilsation. Roman empire was solar powered - could not increase complexity due to that limitation. Modern industrial civilisation exists largely thanks to fossil fuels. This fossilised energy allows (briefly) an enormously complex society to develop and engage in things like space exploration and SETI. Without fossil fuels most of us would be employed in primary industry : Agriculture, forestry, fishing, mining etc. We would not be free to specialise in complex and diverse fields that allows technical and industrial complexity. Fossil fuels developed during quite a unique phase in earths development under certain conditions of geography and ecology. Other planets, even if well endowed organically may not have fossilised energy reserves thereby putting a hard limit on their development. Other civilisations, might well do what ours is doing and use up millions of years of fossilised energy ever year on, well everything - polluting their planet and exhausting their energy reserves to the point they collapse. We have only had radio capability for a hundred years, it is increasingly doubtful we will have much of anything in a hundred more. These conditions do not bode well for communication across galactic time lines and distances.

Taylor365

These questions can never be answered.

Our forms of communication or sense of it may be totally different to any other lifeforms communication methods.

For instance, they might sniff they're way around the galaxy. Radio waves would be useless then.

Myrddin

flanna01 wrote: »

yet if you put a cell phone with a operating manual on top of their nest... they would never learn how to use it... Of all the millions of life forms on planet Earth, we have yet to recieve one single text message from a non-human!

I rest my case guys

Yet we know some Apes can learn rudimentary sign language...
Yet we know Dolphins have their own method of communication...

Who's to say the nearest civilization out there isn't at the same technological era we're at & their radio traffic is still light years away? Or they're behind us technically? Or if they're more advanced, its not by millions of years? Maybe a million year old civilization stopped using radio waves to communicate a thousand years ago & we simply don't pick up their communications now? Maybe we'll receive a signal tomorrow thats been travelling to us from ten thousand light years away? Maybe we've already received it & our deity worshipping leaders are afraid of the implications & its been covered up? Maybe there's nobody out there? Maybe your right? Maybe your wrong?

The truth is, at the moment its like someone standing on the coast of Galway & trying to listen out for other people...not hearing anything & concluding that because we don't hear anything from that direction...America must be uninhabited. We have nowhere near enough information to conclude whats going on out there

Myrddin

Taylor365 wrote: »

These questions can never be answered.

Our forms of communication or sense of it may be totally different to any other lifeforms communication methods.

But yet we went from communicating by two cups connected via a string, to a global wireless communication net in less than a century. In five hundred years fir example, assuming we stay outta trouble...so you think we'll still be using the same communication methods & protocols of today?

Taylor365

EnterNow wrote: »

But yet we went from communicating by two cups connected via a string, to a global wireless communication net in less than a century. In five hundred years fir example, assuming we stay outta trouble...so you think we'll still be using the same communication methods & protocols of today?

You don't see it?

Its the exact same method, it hasn't changed one bit - communication through our senses (sight, speech, hearing).

Who's to say any other life form found has to abide by the same logic or rules as we do?

Our existence is what it is because we perceive it that way.

ciaranmac

This is all interesting but really no more useful than a discussion of theology. We know of only one planet that holds intelligent life, i.e. Earth. There is no way to logically prove that intelligent life exists elsewhere, except by finding it. As for proving that intelligent life does not exist elsewhere, we could look forever, find nothing and still not have proven a case.

Myrddin

Taylor365 wrote: »

You don't see it?

Its the exact same method, it hasn't changed one bit - communication through our senses (sight, speech, hearing).

Who's to say any other life form found has to abide by the same logic or rules as we do?

Our existence is what it is because we perceive it that way.

I do see it, as I said Dolphins communicate in a way we never can...yet its believed in five to ten years, we'll be able to understand the things they are 'saying' to each other & communicate with them in a two way fashion.

Communication is communication...its all about finding common ground.

Maximus Alexander

flanna01 wrote: »

If the neighbours were transmitting for millions of years before mankind - surely we would have picked up something....?

That you Enrico Fermi?

docmol

Originally Posted by flanna01
If the neighbours were transmitting for millions of years before mankind - surely we would have picked up something....?

I read somewhere that the total man made radio energy that has left our solar system since we've had radio tech, is equivalent to the energy from a 40w bulb. Pretty difficult to see from anywhere else.

Maximus Alexander

docmol wrote: »

I read somewhere that the total man made radio energy that has left our solar system since we've had radio tech, is equivalent to the energy from a 40w bulb. Pretty difficult to see from anywhere else.

Nail on the head. People seem to think that ET would be blindly transmitting in every direction, expending mammoth amounts of energy for no reason, when we don't do it ourselves.

We're already moving away from radio, it has an exceedingly brief lifetime of about 100 years before better, more efficient methods of communication take over. If a civilisation is one million years old, how could we possibly imagine the manner in which they would communicate? It would likely look like either magic or a natural phenomenon.

Not to mention that if ET exists and is relatively close by, they might not want to be found. If that's the case it would be very easy for them to hide.

Curly Judge

If these civilisations are really far advanced perhaps they are already here?
They could be moving among us unobserved because of their Prime Directive.
They could be coming here in student groups as part of their study of primitive cultures on the strict understanding that they were not to upset the locals?
Come to think of it, I had a strange feeling in the toilet this morning, that I was not alone..... and that a spectre like being was taking notes. Dear God!

Roger_007

If we are alone, what is the rest of the universe for? Is it Gods ghost estate?

flanna01

I have enjoyed reading some of these posts... I was lisyening to a radio show several years ago now... It was some top astronomy guy explaining what it would take to navigate your way though space... He churned up some thought provoking questions..

Space travellers need a constant source of fuel.

How would space travellers adapt to space conditions (Assuming it would take several human lifetimes to travel to a new planet).

The effort vs reward in travelling to Earth is questionable - What is the gain?

Can an alien race with stand out bacteria / virus & airborn bugs

Maybe we should just stay on the rock we'er born on....

Myrddin

Roger_007 wrote: »

If we are alone, what is the rest of the universe for? Is it Gods ghost estate?

Which God...there's quite a few being worshipped at the mo Maybe thats why the Universe is so big...give all the Gods some real estate

Dotsie~tmp

I think our fossil record might be a good clue. Extinction events are regular (on geological timescales) and sometimes massive. The universe mght just be incedibly hostile to complex intelligent life at this point and in the past. We may be the first iteration intelligent life on earth but that doesnt mean we will be the last. Maybe we are the first traunch of cvilisation doomed not to make it.

Maybe every soloar system has 10,000 10km rocks to throw at planets, maybe a few 50km ones to reset life back to square one. Its depressing to think in these terms. Looks like we will need a very major leap to avoid these things.