Promession, new method of organic burial for environmental atheists

Cork boy 55

Promession is a new method of organic burial for environmental atheists and the others
Promession was invented by a Swedish lady in 2011
and is currently under consideration of implementation in many countries


Promession involves five steps:
The body is frozen by immersion in liquid nitrogen, which makes it brittle.
The frozen remains are shattered by vibration.
The remains are then subjected to a vacuum so that the ice sublimes and the powder becomes dry, and weighs 50% to 70% less than the original body.
Any metals (e.g., tooth amalgam, artificial hips, etc.) are removed, either with a magnetic process or sieving.
The dry powder is placed in a biodegradable casket which is interred in the top layers of soil, where aerobic bacteria decompose the remains into humus, or compost, in as soon as 12 months.
The advantages of Promession over cremation are that there are no polluting direct emissions to the atmosphere, whereas cremation usually uses fossil gas (methane, CH4) and releases carbon dioxide (CO2), oxides of nitrogen (NOx) and mercury vapour from dental fillings. Compared to standard burial, Promession does not release CH4 as the decomposition is aerobic, whereas in a deep grave, conditions are lacking in oxygen and aerobic decomposers would not survive. Traditional burial may contaminate the soil and groundwater with the liquids that are released from decomposition. Promessed remains are effectively recycled into soil.



What do you think of this new method of corpse disposal?

How would you as an atheist/agnostic/others like to be disposed of after death?

IMO conventional burial as a drain on natural resources
and this is a great way to continue the circle of life,
to return to the soil and nurture it.

Introduction of Promession(Chinese-caption?!?, English sound)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR-zqEcgvPA

links
http://www.dailyundertaker.com/2008/09/promession-return-to-living-soil.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promession

kiffer

I think I'd be happy with having my fillings out, cardboard coffin burried 6 foot under a sapling...

Why freeze and shatter the body? Seems like a waste of energy to be honest...

krudler

awesome, can reassemble again like the T-1000

decisions

I want one of these...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7rS_d1fiUc

Banbh

The feelings of the bereaved need to be considered and, frankly, seeing my nearest and dearest frozen and then smashed to smithereens would not be my choice. While we happily pollute the planet with cars and planes and the rest, we can spare a patch of earth for the remains of loved ones.

Custardpi

Banbh wrote: »

The feelings of the bereaved need to be considered and, frankly, seeing my nearest and dearest frozen and then smashed to smithereens would not be my choice. While we happily pollute the planet with cars and planes and the rest, we can spare a patch of earth for the remains of loved ones.

The process wouldn't have to take place right in front of relatives. It's no worse than cremation in that sense, which typically takes place out of sight of the bereaved, rather than everyone standing around a pyre. I guess if you're not comfortable with cremation this new process isn't for you but otherwise I can't see any problems in that sense.

Cork boy 55

kiffer wrote: »

I think I'd be happy with having my fillings out, cardboard coffin burried 6 foot under a sapling...

Who is going to take the fillings out?
What about all the other metal bits and bobs that are increasing finding there way into Humanoid bodies?

Promession takes them all out with a magnet machine at the promatoria.

kiffer wrote: »

Why freeze and shatter the body? Seems like a waste of energy to be honest...

Promession is far more environmental friendly than a traditional funeral
and a big improvement on the current natural burial
that you describe, Promession is the greenest of green disposition options.

Removing the water content reduces volume of body by 50-70%
Makes it easier to remove all the metals.
Compared to standard burial, Promession does not release CH4 as the decomposition is aerobic, whereas in a deep grave, conditions are lacking in oxygen and aerobic decomposers would not survive. Traditional burial may contaminate the soil and groundwater with the liquids that are released from decomposition. Promessed remains are effectively recycled into soil.
Rotting is a slow, ugly, smelly process. Nature intended that we go back to the same system that we originated from and now we can become a gift to the soil instead of a being problem.
There is much more detail on the difference between decomposition and rotting, If you click on the first link in OP and read it.

Just Like Heaven

^ I think if this was introduced after a few generations people wouldn't think much of it. Burying the corpse and leaving it to decompose in the ground slowly might even start to seem a little archaic.

Living in the west of Ireland I remember being a bit shocked when I heard that my granddad who lived in London was going to be cremated. I didn't even know 'they really did that'. Visited the graveyard place or whatever you'd call it (the urns were placed in these massive parks outside London in little graves probably about 60 or 70 cm squared), seemed to be much more routine and normal to the people who lived there despite me feeling a little uneasy about the whole thing.

So long as I'm dead before they 'dispose' of me though I won't be giving it too much thought :pac: Fond of suits as well, I'd probably just think it's a waste burying me in one.

recedite

Pig farmers have occasionally been known to disappear, without trace

Mr. CooL ICE

I'm trying to imagine if my body was chopped up and fed to pigs. Right now, I can't see a whole lot wrong with it. I've eaten a tremendous amount of bacon in my lifetime as it is possibly my favourite food. Giving myself back to pigs is just like restoring some kind of little balance to the world. Circle of life and all that.

My loved ones may think differently though.

Branch Meeting

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

What do you think of this new method of corpse disposal?

Sounds perfect for the 'final solution'

eyescreamcone

Saw a program about Himalayan life.
No soil to bury their dead
No trees for wood to burn them.

A shaman carried the dead body to a "holy spot" where he exposed the insides.

Eagles (a holy bird) came and helped dispose of the dead.

Very environmentally friendly.

Gbear

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Saw a program about Himalayan life.
No soil to bury their dead
No trees for wood to burn them.

A shaman carried the dead body to a "holy spot" where he exposed the insides.

Eagles (a holy bird) came and helped dispose of the dead.

Very environmentally friendly.

I've seen pictures. It ain't pretty.

ArtSmart

Banbh wrote: »

The feelings of the bereaved need to be considered and, frankly, seeing my nearest and dearest frozen and then smashed to smithereens would not be my choice. While we happily pollute the planet with cars and planes and the rest, we can spare a patch of earth for the remains of loved ones.

Well, I know one or two i'd like to sign up....


but yeah, crazy SF stuff. may be the law in 80/100 yrs though...

ArtSmart

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Saw a program about Himalayan life.
No soil to bury their dead
No trees for wood to burn them.

A shaman carried the dead body to a "holy spot" where he exposed the insides.

Eagles (a holy bird) came and helped dispose of the dead.

Very environmentally friendly.

now if they could process the body in some kinda green coloured square tablet or bread for tidier disposal....

oh, what to call it.....

Nodin

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Who is going to take the fillings out?
What about all the other metal bits and bobs that are increasing finding there way into Humanoid bodies?
........

This crap again?

pauldla

Nodin wrote: »

This crap again?

So long as he leaves out the John Denver...

Hotblack Desiato

Don't see what this thread has to do with atheism at all.

the culture of deference

ninja900 wrote: »

Don't see what this thread has to do with atheism at all.

Well at the very least it's another way to remove the RCC monopoly on funerals isn't it.

Banbh

Has the Catholic Church a view on this form of body disposal? They used to have an objection to cremation - maybe still do - as somewhere in the holy books the dead have to rise up and walk again.
The disposal of Osama Bin Laden's body, by throwing it in the sea from a helicopter, was considered a sacrilage by Moslems as the body would not be found in the hereafter or something along those lines. So presumably they too would not go along with this new method.

bnt

It doesn't have anything to do with atheism, really.

PS: tooth fillings and other implants are not ferromagnetic, so a magnet will not pick them up. I have been in a MRI scanner several times, and my fillings are still in my teeth. The magnetic field in a MRI is so strong that anything ferromagnetic will try to leave in a straight line. :eek:

The Mad Hatter

Doesn't it seem environmentally inefficient and ludicrously costly to dispose of bodies using vats of liquid nitrogen, vacuum pumps, high-frequency vibration and electromagnets (which, as bnt said, don't work anyway)?

Most of the environmental harm caused by burial is caused by embalming chemicals leaking into soil, so if you don't want to harm the environment, just ask not to be embalmed. And maybe suggest that your family have a closed-casket funeral.

the culture of deference

Throw us all into volcano's

eyescreamcone

the culture of deference wrote: »

Throw us all into volcano's

Too much energy wasted transporting us to the nearest volcano

I like the pig farm idea.
Not sure if our Muslim friends would be in favour though

Hotblack Desiato

Banbh wrote: »

Has the Catholic Church a view on this form of body disposal? They used to have an objection to cremation - maybe still do - as somewhere in the holy books the dead have to rise up and walk again.

RCC is okay with cremation. The last funeral I was at was an RC one and was followed by a cremation, the priest came to the crematorium.

Bannasidhe

ninja900 wrote: »

RCC is okay with cremation. The last funeral I was at was an RC one and was followed by a cremation, the priest came to the crematorium.

My aunt organised her own funeral (end stage lung cancer) and when the priest queried her decision to be cremated she told him that when she divorced her violent husband in the late 70s one of 'his' lot told her she would going to burn hell, so she may as well get a head start.

Me- if practicable remove any parts that would helps others live, then wrap me in a canvas bag, put me in a hole in the ground and plant a tree on top. I'd like a lemon tree and with climate change that may actually be possible.

The OP's suggestion is, well, pants really.

Benny_Cake

ninja900 wrote: »

RCC is okay with cremation. The last funeral I was at was an RC one and was followed by a cremation, the priest came to the crematorium.

Try RCC has allowed cremation for several decades are this point, but stipulates that the ashes are not to be scattered (of course, many people do). Protestants have a variety of views and the Eastern Orthodox Church forbids it outright.

I fail to see why this would be of interest to atheists or anyone else, seems unnecessarily complicated and expensive. Stick me in a biodegradable box and plant a nice tree would be my preference.

Banbh

This tree worship is very popular.

Nodin

Banbh wrote: »

This tree worship is very popular.

...in the absence of a burning longship, its always going to be a winner.

oldrnwisr

I think the idea of promession is an interesting notion, but like other posters have commented it seems like a needlessly convoluted solution to a problem which doesn't really exist.

Personally, once the organ people and the medical science people have taken what they need that's fine. I'll be dead so whatever happens to my body isn't going to concern me too much.

Oh, and there's just one small flaw in your mechanism:

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Any metals (e.g., tooth amalgam, artificial hips, etc.) are removed, either with a magnetic process or sieving.

Dental amalgam does not exhibit magnetic properties. That's why you don't end up with your jaw being ripped out when you have an MRI.

The primary alloy used in long term prosthetics is a propietary alloy known as Vitalium. Depsite its high cobalt content (~60%) it does not exhibit magnetic properties. Certainly, smaller more rigid structures such as bone screws tend to be made from surgical steel as do certain pacemaker components and artifical valve components. However, I think it's a case of back to the drawing board with this one.

Undergod

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Promession involves five steps:
The body is frozen by immersion in liquid nitrogen, which makes it brittle.
The frozen remains are shattered by vibration.
The remains are then subjected to a vacuum so that the ice sublimes and the powder becomes dry, and weighs 50% to 70% less than the original body.
Any metals (e.g., tooth amalgam, artificial hips, etc.) are removed, either with a magnetic process or sieving.
The dry powder is placed in a biodegradable casket which is interred in the top layers of soil, where aerobic bacteria decompose the remains into humus, or compost, in as soon as 12 months.

...

What do you think of this new method of corpse disposal?

****in' metal.

NecroSteve

I don't see this process as eco-friendly at all, it's very energy intensive. Best thing to do with a dead body, in my opinion, is to use it for organ transplants and/or medical research. After that, petfood. Or whatever, ego dies with the body anyway!

Just Like Heaven

NecroSteve wrote: »

I don't see this process as eco-friendly at all, it's very energy intensive. Best thing to do with a dead body, in my opinion, is to use it for organ transplants and/or medical research. After that, petfood. Or whatever, ego dies with the body anyway!

It isn't that simple. Most people who die are old and 70/80 year old kidneys aren't of much use in a transplant. Not all organs are transferable anyway, and if everybody was having their organs removed after they die, we'd run out of people to transfer them to as most people go through life not needing an organ transplant. Transferable organs make up a small percentage of the body mass.

If people have an objection to their body being obliterated in this sense absolutely best of luck with trying to convince them to donate themselves to a catnip factory. Doing "whatever" after that is exactly the problem.

Peregrinus

I agree that I don't see that this has any special relevance to atheists. I'm pretty sure the mainstream religions in Ireland have no problem with cremation, and would have no problem with this.

The main concern, I suspect, would be the carbon/energy cost of producing, transporting and storing the volume of liquid nitrogen required to deep-freeze a human body prior to reducing it by vibration. (Plus, I supose, the carbon/energy cost of producing the vibrations.) I'd be interested to see the figures on whether this is greater or lesser than the environmental cost of reducing the body by cremation.

kiffer

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Who is going to take the fillings out?

Mortican? Doctor conducting the autopsy/postmortem? The embalmers? I don't want to be filled with sawdust and formaldehyde so all they need to do is pop my fillings out and be done with it. I'm in the process of getting my mercury bassed fillings swapped out anyway so by the time I die it might not be needed...
People aren't just dumped into coffins and thrown in a hole.

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

What about all the other metal bits and bobs that are increasing finding there way into Humanoid bodies?

Most of that metal is non toxic surely? Why not leave it in?

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Promession takes them all out with a magnet machine at the promatoria.

A few people have said that you can't separate the fillings and implants with a magnetic field but that's not accurate, you can* but again its a waste of energy. So why would you?


*yes, you can. google "eddy current separator".

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Promession is far more environmental friendly than a traditional funeral
and a big improvement on the current natural burial
that you describe, Promession is the greenest of green disposition options.

It doesn't seem greener at all... making the liquid nitrogen will take a lot of power, running the smasher and separator will take some as well.
Having an embalmer pop the fillings out takes less energy than actually embalmin the body.

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Removing the water content reduces volume of body by 50-70%
Makes it easier to remove all the metals.
Compared to standard burial, Promession does not release CH4 as the decomposition is aerobic, whereas in a deep grave, conditions are lacking in oxygen and aerobic decomposers would not survive. Traditional burial may contaminate the soil and groundwater with the liquids that are released from decomposition. Promessed remains are effectively recycled into soil.
Rotting is a slow, ugly, smelly process. Nature intended that we go back to the same system that we originated from and now we can become a gift to the soil instead of a being problem.
There is much more detail on the difference between decomposition and rotting, If you click on the first link in OP and read it.

Who cares that rotting is slow and ugly?
I'll be dead, I still have to rot even if we fragment and dry my body. Sorry(!) "decompose".
Nature intended for us to be frozen, shattered and then dried... Really?


Edit: damn you autocorrect!