Are bus drivers obliged to help passengers load their luggage?

Run_to_da_hills

I was on a bi level coach at Belfast Europa recently where a row broke out between a driver (Sitting in his seat) and a passenger boarding who wanted a heavy bag lifted into the luggage bay at the rear of the bus.

The driver refused to get out of his seat demanding that it was the passengers responsibility to look after their own baggage. Was he correct?

He told her that she should have brought assistance with her if she needed her bags loaded. Is this a case of laziness on behalf of the driver or is he going by the book?

foggy_lad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I was on a bi level coach at Belfast Europa recently where a row broke out between a driver (Sitting in his seat) and a passenger boarding who wanted a heavy bag lifted into the luggage bay at the rear of the bus.

The driver refused to get out of his seat demanding that it was the passengers responsibility to look after their own baggage. Was he correct?

He told her that she should have brought assistance with her if she needed her bags loaded. Is this a case of laziness on behalf of the driver or is he going by the book?

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=324

PASSENGER LUGGAGE/BICYCLES
Each passenger may carry one medium-sized suitcase or equivalent (maximum dimensions 80cms x 70 cms x 20 cms and maximum weight 15 Kgs) on a bus free of charge, which must be placed in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. In addition, each passenger may carry one small item of hand luggage free of charge inside the passenger saloon of the vehicle. Hand luggage carried inside the passenger saloon must not be placed where it could obstruct the gangway or any passenger entrance or emergency exit, but must be placed under a seat or in an overhead rack as appropriate. Any additional luggage may only be carried if, in the opinion of Bus Éireann, there is sufficient accommodation available. Such additional luggage, if carried at the discretion of Bus Éireann, must be placed in the luggage compartment of the vehicle and may be subject to an additional charge as determined by Bus Éireann from time to time.

I would say No the driver does not have to help any passenger loading their luggage into the luggage compartment.

AlekSmart

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I was on a bi level coach at Belfast Europa recently where a row broke out between a driver (Sitting in his seat) and a passenger boarding who wanted a heavy bag lifted into the luggage bay at the rear of the bus.

The driver refused to get out of his seat demanding that it was the passengers responsibility to look after their own baggage. Was he correct?

He told her that she should have brought assistance with her if she needed her bags loaded. Is this a case of laziness on behalf of the driver or is he going by the book?

AFAIAA,Luggage is the passengers responsibility at all times.

Whilst,in the past,Transport Company Staff were specifically employed to carry out porterage duties,the advent of One Person Operation pretty much saw that off.

The other major deciding factor was/is Work Related Injury and the relevant Health & Safety at Work leglislation.

It's now pretty much a rarity to see a scheduled service driver (Public or Private) handball luggage for passengers.

Take a peep at Aircoach for example,which originally had it's drivers performing porterage at every stop for every passenger,now you will rarely see the Driver do much more than open the Luggage Booth door and throw in a light rucksack or two.....;)

Another reason is the tendency of people to take the pyss when presented with any opportunity,as with time small bags metamorphisize into King Tut's Sarcophagus.

Oddly enough,the last time I saw a brouhaha over this issue was some years back in the Europa also,when a dusky foreign Gentleman with several large cases loudly demanded the (Ulsterbus) driver to load them for him.

His request was unsuccessful...to the point that our departure left without the Gent and his luggage,as an Inspector had arrived with chapter and verse about charges for more than one piece of luggage apparently.

Interestingly,no other passengers offered to assist either...but maybe thats just Belfast for ye ????

The low-cost Airlines brought a bit of order on the Luggage situation as their popularity increased,and most folks now know that baggage is an expensive element of travel...has'nt hit the bus & Coach world as yet...but since it now appears to be on the radar,it's only a matter of time till some enterprising accountant sees it as a revenue generator of itself....:eek:

Run_to_da_hills

foggy_lad wrote: »

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=324



I would say No the driver does not have to help any passenger loading their luggage into the luggage compartment.

It was certainly above average size and probably exceeded the weight too.

SCOOP 64

I know rules are rules , but i would have too help the lady if i was driving the bus , i know if i put my back out the firm would not want to know, it would be my own fault, but could not just sit there and watch her struggle.

Wishbone Ash

AlekSmart wrote: »

Take a peep at Aircoach for example

I worked for Aircoach for a while and one of the first things I was informed was that under no circumstances should I assist passengers with their luggage. I think it was a legal thing to stop litigation from injured drivers.

foggy_lad

I think there is also an issue in the luggage which people are allowed carry onto coaches, I have seen many people on busy services bringing their ryanair sized case on board but all these should be underneath with the oversized trunks. many passengers and drivers simply ignore the conditions of carriage though and allow mostly women bring on their cases which take up a seat.

This is also another condition of carriage regularly ignored by passengers and drivers alike
http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=324

Customers are not allowed to take onto a Bus Éireann bus, or any bus operated for or on behalf of Bus Éireann, any hot food or hot drinks.

Slunk

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I worked for Aircoach for a while and one of the first things I was informed was that under no circumstances should I assist passengers with their luggage. I think it was a legal thing to stop litigation from injured drivers.

In a similar position. First thing I was told was never to help with baggage as I am not insured. I help the odd old dear with the light bags but gives me great pleasure telling people who just assume its your job to do it to fcuk off

Cookie_Monster

Customers are not allowed to take onto a Bus Éireann bus, or any bus operated for or on behalf of Bus Éireann, any hot food or hot drinks.

Ahh sure it's only warm now...

It's a bit of overkill, you can't bring a coffee on the bus? Certainly there should be no such rules preventing the driver having one rather than getting to the point of being a little sleepy...

Ted_YNWA

Some people on the other hand get very protective of their bags.

Was getting a bag out of coach & lady (50+) was stuggling to pull her bag out. I offered to give her a hand & the look she gave me effectively said fcuk off ...

ailbheg

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Ahh sure it's only warm now...

It's a bit of overkill, you can't bring a coffee on the bus? Certainly there should be no such rules preventing the driver having one rather than getting to the point of being a little sleepy...

Think of the risk of someone getting injured - who's responsible if someone spills their drink/food and burns someone?

Mrs OBumble

Citylink and gobus express service drivers regularly help with luggage, as much as anything to make sure its sorted by stop so buses aren't held up.

Cookie_Monster

ailbheg wrote: »

Think of the risk of someone getting injured - who's responsible if someone spills their drink/food and burns someone?

Think of the children!!!

That of course is the problem, some muppet will always **** it up for everyone by dropping hot coffee over another passenger.
Seems odd though, it's no issue in planes, trains, cars, why buses?

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Think of the children!!!

That of course is the problem, some muppet will always **** it up for everyone by dropping hot coffee over another passenger.
Seems odd though, it's no issue in planes, trains, cars, why buses?

There is a greater risk of it being spilled and less room for the person that gets scalded to get up and try to mop up the spill before it spreads as they are more confined in a bus than in a plane or train or automobile.

BuffyBot

There could be Health and Safety issues here and/or company policy at work.

In a similar vein, many airlines disallow their cabin crew from assisting passengers with their cabin baggage due to injuries caused by lifting heavy cases etc.

AlekSmart

BuffyBot wrote: »

There could be Health and Safety issues here and/or company policy at work.

In a similar vein, many airlines disallow their cabin crew from assisting passengers with their cabin baggage due to injuries caused by lifting heavy cases etc.

I suppose,just to answer the thread title simply and directly.....NO !

parsi

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Think of the children!!!

That of course is the problem, some muppet will always **** it up for everyone by dropping hot coffee over another passenger.
Seems odd though, it's no issue in planes, trains, cars, why buses?

Ryanair don't allow you to bring your own hot drinks on either .

As much to do with P&L as H&S but in fairness a cup could wobble in a hand during take-off.

oisindoyle

So so bus drivers are told NOT to help passengers with their luggage,very interesting indeed .
It would be interesting if this thread was about a similar situation with regard to taxi drivers !!
Double standards much !

corktina

Hot Coffee? stupid Donald Dodo!

currins_02

I have experienced both situations mentioned in this thread as a coach driver and may be able to shed a small bit of light.

Firstly, while driving a coach subcontracted into a large service bus company in Ireland (no names here!) I was pulled up by an inspector for assisting a lady with her bags - she had 2 children, a pram and all associated luggage and was struggling so I got out to help her. I was informed that in NO circumstance (and I mean NO circumstance) was I to assist ANYONE while driving on duties for this company. The reasons were threefold:
1) Health & Safety - Due to the risk of injury to the driver while lifting or loading luggage
2) Loss/Damage - Due to the risk of a claim from a passenger for loss of or damage to their luggage or anything carried in it
3) Security - While not so much an issue in stations this is more of a risk at intermediate stops. Basically the driver is handling cash which in some cases is in not inconsiderable sums. As such form a security perspective they view it as safer if the driver stays in his seat at all times
Very difficult to not help especially when you have elderly or infirm passengers or struggling mothers but thems the rules. I do always apologise tho for being unable to help.

Most of the private companies I've experienced and certainly any coach I have ever driven prohibit Hot Food/Hot Drinks/Ice Cream or some of those 3. The reasons are fairly simple. Firstly there is the health & safety aspect presented by spillage and possible scalding of themselves or other passengers. Second many hot foods create smells in the coach which are almost impossible to get rid of, food may be lovely for the consumer but the rest of the load may not appreciate the aroma. Then there is the practical issue of cleaning, hot drinks and ice creaam create sticky messes on floors and seats. In many cases people insist in finishing 90% of their tea/coffee/choc ice and then either drop the rest on the floor, shove it down the side of the seat, stick it in the seat back pocket or worse, throw it on the empty seat beside them. If they knew what was involved in trying to clean that again they might have more manners. Similarly hot foods, expecially the fast food/deli options of burgers/fries/chicken wings/sausage rolls/wedges etc end up mashed into seat squabs, squeezed into seat back pockets, shoved down the side of seats or for some reason stuck down the side of the floor mounted radiator. I make absolutely no apologies for not allowing these food stuffs inside but before opening the door at any comfort stop I always make an announcement politely to that effect.

AlekSmart

oisindoyle wrote: »

So so bus drivers are told NOT to help passengers with their luggage,very interesting indeed .
It would be interesting if this thread was about a similar situation with regard to taxi drivers !!
Double standards much !

Oisin,time and again it has to be pointed out that Taxi drivers in Ireland are SELF-EMPLOYED.

This totally changes every aspect of their behaviour and indeed,the ramifications of any incidents accidents involving them.

A Taxi Driver dislocating his/her back has absolutely NO protective Insurance in place unless subscribing to VERY expensive Private Accident/Income Protection cover.

Bus & Coach Drivers,however are acting as agents of their employer,and therefore the consequences of their actions can and do have a bearing on their employers bottom line.

AlekSmart

currins_02 wrote: »

.

Most of the private companies I've experienced and certainly any coach I have ever driven prohibit Hot Food/Hot Drinks/Ice Cream or some of those 3. The reasons are fairly simple. Firstly there is the health & safety aspect presented by spillage and possible scalding of themselves or other passengers. Second many hot foods create smells in the coach which are almost impossible to get rid of, food may be lovely for the consumer but the rest of the load may not appreciate the aroma. Then there is the practical issue of cleaning, hot drinks and ice creaam create sticky messes on floors and seats. In many cases people insist in finishing 90% of their tea/coffee/choc ice and then either drop the rest on the floor, shove it down the side of the seat, stick it in the seat back pocket or worse, throw it on the empty seat beside them. If they knew what was involved in trying to clean that again they might have more manners. Similarly hot foods, expecially the fast food/deli options of burgers/fries/chicken wings/sausage rolls/wedges etc end up mashed into seat squabs, squeezed into seat back pockets, shoved down the side of seats or for some reason stuck down the side of the floor mounted radiator. I make absolutely no apologies for not allowing these food stuffs inside but before opening the door at any comfort stop I always make an announcement politely to that effect.

Excellent clear and concise post.

There is also an issue of Customer Expectation and the Public vs Private divide.

Individuals using a Private Bus or Coach are more compliant and receptive to instructions and requests from the Driver.

However,in my continuing experience,a Public driver runs a significant risk of verbal/physical assault in the event of making any similar request to boarding passengers.

I have done,and continue to make such requests of passengers boarding with open cans of booze,cups of coffee and gut-busting burgers and taco-fries.

Usually I will get a very combative response along the lines of "Are you for real bud" or "Wuddja fuxxck off outa dah"....

I have had coffee then deliberately emptied onto the platform floor in front of me...."Now are ya happy,ya fcukkinx eejit" was the statement which accompanied that little petulant act.....

Put mildly,significant numbers of Public Transport users have little or no appreciation of how to behave in a civilized manner at all.

I can guarantee readers that every Busdriver posting here has experience of checking their vehicle after a run,and finding half eaten,sometimes partially digested food stuffed between seat cushions or the sticky remainder of spilt Dutch Gold all over the floor.

What to do.....ZERO TOLERANCE,to extend the remit of that currently hot term...Eat your food somewhere else,drink your booze somewhere else....

Will this thread make a difference....Nope !!

oisindoyle

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oisin,time and again it has to be pointed out that Taxi drivers in Ireland are SELF-EMPLOYED..

No one is disputing that .

AlekSmart wrote: »

This totally changes every aspect of their behaviour and indeed,the ramifications of any incidents accidents involving them..

Yes the ramifications are that if they do damage to themselves ,they are out of work with no sick pay .

AlekSmart wrote: »

A Taxi Driver dislocating his/her back has absolutely NO protective Insurance in place unless subscribing to VERY expensive Private Accident/Income Protection cover...

All the more reason why the passenger should lift their own suit cases/luggage into the booth of a taxi and NOT the driver

AlekSmart wrote: »

Bus & Coach Drivers,however are acting as agents of their employer,and therefore the consequences of their actions can and do have a bearing on their employers bottom line.

The consequenses of a taxi drivers actions are he/she could do serious damage to their back ,be out of work and loss of earnings.
Passengers shouldn't fell the driver "has to " lift "THEIR" luggage into a taxi

Losty Dublin

Alek, do you guys get sent to any of those manual/heavy listing courses?

Wishbone Ash

Slunk wrote: »

I help the odd old dear with the light bags but gives me great pleasure telling people who just assume its your job to do it to fcuk off

I used to help people all the time even though I wasn't supposed to. It was just in my nature. In saying that though, I was never impressed with the passengers who assumed that it was my job to load their luggage.
One evening at the airport, a sophisticated looking young lady boarded my bus and announced in a loud voice "Driver, my bags are outside". I responded - "so you're not taking them with you" and closed the doors!

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Seems odd though, it's no issue in planes, trains, cars, why buses?

Planes and trains are much more stable than buses - they don't have to "corner" as such. Cars are generally privately owned and not under company rules.

Some passengers board with coffee while talking on their phone. They don't hold on to anything and stumble when the bus drives off yet they have the cheek to approach the driver and complain that they fell and their coffee was spilled. Morons!

oisindoyle wrote: »

So so bus drivers are told NOT to help passengers with their luggage,very interesting indeed .
It would be interesting if this thread was about a similar situation with regard to taxi drivers !!
Double standards much !

Taxi drivers are generally self employed. Do you think they might be in danger of suing themselves?

currins_02 wrote: »

many hot foods create smells in the coach which are almost impossible to get rid of, food may be lovely for the consumer but the rest of the load may not appreciate the aroma

100% agree. It's horrible at the start of a 12 hour shift to have a passenger with a spicy chicken roll and to have to endure the stink for hours afterwards. And worse again, all subsequent passengers assume the driver has just had his lunch.

Run_to_da_hills

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

100% agree. It's horrible at the start of a 12 hour shift to have a passenger with a spicy chicken roll and to have to endure the stink for hours afterwards. And worse again, all subsequent passengers assume the driver has just had his lunch.

I was on a 2700 travelling to Limk Jct from Limk when a woman sat across from my seat and tucked into her snackbox meal, the stench was something that I did not want for the duration of the journey so I opened the window.

She complained a few minutes later about the cold and asked me if I could close it. My reply was..........get rid of the burger first, pointing to the window.

Going Forward

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I was on a 2700 travelling to Limk Jct from Limk when a woman sat across from my seat and tucked into her snackbox meal, the stench was something that I did not want for the duration of the journey so I opened the window.

She complained a few minutes later about the cold and asked me if I could close it. My reply was..........get rid of the burger first, pointing to the window.

The SMELL of the "food" is what I hate, the stink of someone elses
onions.

That aside, the food/drink signs are either non existent or too small.
This could be improved to reduce any confusion as to whether it is ok to bring food on board.

parsi

I'd be of the view that if you can't manage your baggage then either hire a porter or leave some at home.

I don't expect a taxi driver to lift my bags and I don't expect a bus driver (of any type) to do it either.

Mrs OBumble

parsi wrote: »

I'd be of the view that if you can't manage your baggage then either hire a porter or leave some at home.

I don't expect a taxi driver to lift my bags and I don't expect a bus driver (of any type) to do it either.

I agree for buses.

But what about an elderly / sick person catching a taxi to a hospital appointment or hospice - or a a severly disabled kid going to/from school by taxi?

corktina

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I agree for buses.

But what about an elderly / sick person catching a taxi to a hospital appointment or hospice - or a a severly disabled kid going to/from school by taxi?

luggage for a hospital appointment or to go to school? :eek:

ScouseMouse

I sell coffee at a bus stop. Depending on the driver, my customers are refused onto the bus if they have coffee. I tried to reason with the drivers themselves when they come in for their coffees.

One driver mentioned it was because they had had coffee and pish thrown at them.:(

aujopimur

I remember when the conductor would haul baggage, bicycles, boxes of live chickens and all sorts of goods up the ladder at the back of the bus and onto the roof.
One particular guy was permanetly drunk on duty and would provide entertaining moments as he went up and down the ladder.

AlekSmart

aujopimur wrote: »

I remember when the conductor would haul baggage, bicycles, boxes of live chickens and all sorts of goods up the ladder at the back of the bus and onto the roof.
One particular guy was permanetly drunk on duty and would provide entertaining moments as he went up and down the ladder.

Gosh quite a picture alright.....I reckon the Presidents Cheque is next on the agenda !!

But,you are correct as this was an integral part of the Provincial Bus Conductor's duties.....however,the arrival of the One Man Bus changed all of this,as did the arrival of universal Motor Car usage !

Victor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Think of the children!!!

That of course is the problem, some muppet will always **** it up for everyone by dropping hot coffee over another passenger.
Seems odd though, it's no issue in planes, trains, cars, why buses?

On a plane, you are served coffee at your seat, not so on a bus. On a train, you are served at your seat or given a proper carrier. In a car, you are served coffee before you move - one hopes.

As regards bus drivers having their own coffee, while there is the risk of spilling it on themselves and crashing, they are unlikely to spill it on someone else.

oisindoyle

parsi wrote: »

I'd be of the view that if you can't manage your baggage then either hire a porter or leave some at home.

`
Totally agree.

I don't expect a taxi driver to lift my bags

But that's my point ,people DO expect taxi drivers to lift THEIR bags .Many many a passenger just drops their bags/luggage at the booth get into the car and expect the driver to haul it in ,regardless of how heavy it is !

Wishbone Ash

AlekSmart wrote: »

Individuals using a Private Bus or Coach are more compliant and receptive to instructions and requests from the Driver

....although many can be quite unreceptive to simple requests such as "please take a seat" or annoyed when not permitted to be dropped off at an unofficial stop.

AlekSmart wrote:

I can guarantee readers that every Busdriver posting here has experience of checking their vehicle after a run,and finding half eaten,sometimes partially digested food stuffed between seat cushions or the sticky remainder of spilt Dutch Gold all over the floor

Indeed,...and on one memorable occasion I discovered that a passenger had taken a dump on the rear seat. :eek:

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I agree for buses.

But what about an elderly / sick person catching a taxi to a hospital appointment or hospice - or a a severly disabled kid going to/from school by taxi?

I'm open to correction but aren't special needs children obliged to have a 'helper' when travelling by taxi?

An elderly person going to a hospital appointment would be unlikely to have heavy baggage unlike a female passenger going/returning from a 2 week holiday.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

On a train, you are served at your seat or given a proper carrier.

just yesterday I had a lovely bowl of chowder and a coffee on a train and was able to walk the whole way from the snack car back to my seat with it... (didn't even spill it )

trellheim

I had cause to visit Reading UK via Heathrow's Aircoach service a few times in the last few weeks. On this service, you are curtly informed to leave your luggage by the side of the coach, for the driver to load it. No snags but a surprising change.

parsi

The inconsistency across providers doesn't help even though I suppose it could be seen as a marketing point (if providers were offering competing services).

corktina

trellheim wrote: »

I had cause to visit Reading UK via Heathrow's Aircoach service a few times in the last few weeks. On this service, you are curtly informed to leave your luggage by the side of the coach, for the driver to load it. No snags but a surprising change.

i don't know about curt, it's a handy service that I use quite often. Only bad experiance I had was with one driver falling out with a car full of young asians in the bus lane in LHR and threatening to take them all on!( I used to be in the effing Marines mate, you lot don't scare me!)the air was somewhat blue, and I found it quite funny (but wouldnt have if I had had kids with me...). They do always help with the luggage and have a checker (at Reading) to look after the tickets whilst the driver does the bags.

AlekSmart

corktina wrote: »

i don't know about curt, it's a handy service that I use quite often. Only bad experiance I had was with one driver falling out with a car full of young asians in the bus lane in LHR and threatening to take them all on!( I used to be in the effing Marines mate, you lot don't scare me!)the air was somewhat blue, and I found it quite funny (but wouldnt have if I had had kids with me...). They do always help with the luggage and have a checker (at Reading) to look after the tickets whilst the driver does the bags.

You can have the same experience here if the resources are provided......extra staff member to handle the extra work....:rolleyes:

corktina

AlekSmart wrote: »

You can have the same experience here if the resources are provided......extra staff member to handle the extra work....:rolleyes:

i'd prefer a cheaper ticket tbh

devnull

Aircoach generally will help you with your luggage depending on the driver, from what I've seen most drivers will help you but you'll get some who will not lift anything or only the lighter cases. At the airport stops and sometimes at the Cork route stops either end, they'll have a customer care guy who will do that whilst the drivers board the passengers.

The hot drinks restriction is pretty common to me, they always restrict this on most companies and it's not just an Irish think either. Also most ban hot food as well.

Capt'n Midnight

Victor wrote: »

On a plane, you are served coffee at your seat, not so on a bus. On a train, you are served at your seat or given a proper carrier. In a car, you are served coffee before you move - one hopes.

Planes and trains have tables and a lack of potholes and sudden turns and other changes in acceleration

kerry4sam

Victor wrote: »

On a plane, you are served coffee at your seat, not so on a bus. On a train, you are served at your seat or given a proper carrier. In a car, you are served coffee before you move - one hopes.

As regards bus drivers having their own coffee, while there is the risk of spilling it on themselves and crashing, they are unlikely to spill it on someone else.

I have been on buses where:
~ A hostess served hot & cold beverages and snacks to your seat any time you like for duration of journey (Glasgow -> Aberdeen).

Also, another example:
~ Lithuania had a beverage machine on the bus where serve yourself hot beverages any time and as often as you like for duration of bus trip (Vilnius -> Riga). This bus also had on-board camera; wi-fi; socket for laptop; mini-tv on seat in-front of yours with movies, music, internet, local info for viewing (also provided headphones); aswell as reclinable seats.

No such service / facility as yet here in Ireland for long bus journeys. Even if they had on-board cameras, they may be able to allow customers carry on hot beverages.

AlekSmart

kerry4sam wrote: »

No such service / facility as yet here in Ireland for long bus journeys. Even if they had on-board cameras, they may be able to allow customers carry on hot beverages.

Oddly enough,the elder lemons in C&T will fondly remember the on-board hostess service provided on the Dublin-Limerick service 12 over 20 years ago now....

Tried and found to be somewhat superfluous I think,plus issues with the on-board equipment eventually led to it's abandonment.

So,yes this facility was here before,but as yet I cannot see much demand today, unless passengers are prepared to pay a premium for it ?

Mrs OBumble

corktina wrote: »

luggage for a hospital appointment or to go to school? :eek:

If it's going to be a few days/weeks in hospital, then most people have a bag. People heading to a hospice usually have an even bigger one!

And disabled kids may have changes of clothes etc to take.