RSA trying to curb car modifications

Chris_Heilong

WTF is this????? Remember that EU ruling a while back that was about preventing people from modifying their cars...well it looks like the RSA are trying to actually bring it in over here. This is really a bad thing for people who want to improve features of their cars.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Vehicle-Standards/Information-Notes-Consultations--EU-proposals-/Consultations-/Active-Consultations/Consultation-on-Post-Registration-Vehicle-Modifications-/

barney 20v

They should spend more time and money ensuring that the road network is improved to a 1st world standard before they target any individual motoring group....
RSA can suck my balls!

4wd

remember the politicion ivor callelley? he tried to ban a host of items when he and his shower were in power. a local tradsman ratted him out for claiming expences for traveling to and from the country when he realy resided in dublin. he lost his job as a result.
the moral of the story
dont upset your plumber especial if he has alloys and an exhaust.

least these fools forget that there 5 series they drive and all its extras are inspired and taken directly from the modifaction of vehicles .

ban the tolls, stop putting gravel in potholes and fire viradicar of the highest bridge we can find.... gob ****e

Chris_Heilong

4wd wrote: »

remember the politicion ivor callelley? he tried to ban a host of items when he and his shower were in power. a local tradsman ratted him out for claiming expences for traveling to and from the country when he realy resided in dublin. he lost his job as a result.
the moral of the story
dont upset your plumber especial if he has alloys and an exhaust.

least these fools forget that there 5 series they drive and all its extras are inspired and taken directly from the modifaction of vehicles .

ban the tolls, stop putting gravel in potholes and fire viradicar of the highest bridge we can find.... gob ****e

I send them an email stating something similar, its at the bottom of the link I posted, they want to gauge the public's interest it bring in this new law

JimmyCrackCorn

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

WTF is this????? Remember that EU ruling a while back that was about preventing people from modifying their cars...well it looks like the RSA are trying to actually bring it in over here. This is really a bad thing for people who want to improve features of their cars.

So what has the RSA achieved in the last few years...


1. Safety cameras
2. E markings on tires
3. Tinted window regulations
4. Noise limits being set (loud was always illegal and technically still is)


Id actually like to see Engineers reports as a requirement legally modifying a car. Just to once and for all end the unsafe/dangerous argument.

challengemaster

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Id actually like to see Engineers reports as a requirement legally modifying a car. Just to once and for all end the unsafe/dangerous argument.

Define modification?

Would you need an engineers report for changing exhaust? Changing alloys? Adding an induction kit?

Would you also need to get another one carried out every time you modify/change something on the car?

It's a non-flyer tbh. Far too expensive, as people usually carry out mods on an ongoing basis rather than one bulk job.

Sofiztikated

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

WTF is this????? Remember that EU ruling a while back that was about preventing people from modifying their cars...well it looks like the RSA are trying to actually bring it in over here. This is really a bad thing for people who want to improve features of their cars.

Have you a link?

4wd wrote: »

remember the politicion ivor callelley? he tried to ban a host of items when he and his shower were in power. a local tradsman ratted him out for claiming expences for traveling to and from the country when he realy resided in dublin. he lost his job as a result.
the moral of the story
dont upset your plumber especial if he has alloys and an exhaust.

least these fools forget that there 5 series they drive and all its extras are inspired and taken directly from the modifaction of vehicles .

ban the tolls, stop putting gravel in potholes and fire viradicar of the highest bridge we can find.... gob ****e

You seem to have that arseways. Most modifications would come from being spotted on another vehicle, and applying it to your own.

Chris_Heilong

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Have you a link?



You seem to have that arseways. Most modifications would come from being spotted on another vehicle, and applying it to your own.

Yes I had the link in my original post dont know why it wasnt visible, I just re-entered it there, thanks. I edited the first post, thanks

JimmyCrackCorn

MOD WARNING

Please post sensible. Make a point and back it up.

I cant have a thread full of RSA of rhetoric. Also read the doc linked in post one as opposed to jumping to the conclusion Modified cars will be banned.


Love

The Cranky Mod

Sofiztikated

Exactly, there's nothing in that link to point to banning modifications.

It's calling for a forum to propose how to make modifications safe. Say what you want, but there are some pointless and unsafe modifications out there.

Think of all the motors out there with cut springs, massive sun strips so that you can only see out 2 inches of the windscreen, etc.

kerry4sam

The following is from the RSA facebook page

The RSA are opening a public consultation on Vehicle Modifications. We are looking to hear views from members of the public who have advice or suggestions on our proposals to regulate modifications that take place on a vehicle to ensure they are roadworthy, and safe.
Vehicle modifications can range from simple cosmetic changes (windscreen replacement) to major structural alterations (lowering a cars suspension).
In some cases these modifications can impact negatively on a vehicle’s behaviour that poses danger to the driver and to other road users impacting Road Safety.
Your thoughts and opinions will contribute to the RSA’s forthcoming strategy. You can download the submission document here http://ow.ly/htgti .

homeless student

thought the modified sceen was dead in ireland these days? recession and all. i spent thousands modifying my car over the years, enjoyed it but getting pulled the whole time wasnt fun, the nct finally ended my interest in the sceen this year, havent been really into it in years anyway just still had the car, anyway im buying a new car now, wont have any mods, look a bit of advice to any young lad out there thinking of building a modified car, dont bother, not worth the hassle you will get from the guards and the nct are really clamping down on it now, theres no doubt in my mind they want modified cars off the road.

The Reamer

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Id actually like to see Engineers reports as a requirement legally modifying a car. Just to once and for all end the unsafe/dangerous argument.

That would work in theory, but in practice what would happen is that engineers will be very cautious about certifying a modified vehicle because if it were ever involved in a crash they would come in for serious questioning.
To counter this risk, the engineer would charge stupendous sums to examine and certify a vehicle, if they would do it at all.
They would also stick to the safer low key stuff like changing lights or tyre sizes. As for major modifications like any chasis work, installing a different engine or suspension work, no engineer in his right mind would take on the risk of some scrote going araound in that.

Think i'm wrong? Look how hard it is to get a structural engineer to issue a fire cert for a building.

On the flip side, it would be a lovely gig for the mech eng's to get in on.

Personally, I would like to see the following mods banned outright:
- window tinting as it is a security risk as a policeman cannot see who is in it or what they are doing and needless to say the drivers vision is impaired.
- lowered suspensions as they could negatively affect the vehicles handling making it dangerous and they also damage the road by scraping in places. The public road is a public road, not a racing track.
- fitting a vehicle with an engine for which it was not orignally designed to have
- fitting aftermarket bumbers and bodykits as they might have different performance in crashes and be unable to absord energy like the original.
- removing the seats from a vehicle and replacing them with a type for which the vehicle was not designed. OFten you are removing pretensioners and other safety devices by doing this.
- for that matter, removal, modification of or otherwise tampering with any safety device or any safety critical component. - typical example is boyracers replacing the airbag steering wheel with a non airbag one. Changing pedals is another one.
- fittment of an exhaust which emits noise at a level in excess of that which was orignially on the car.

As far as I'm concerned, enthusiasts shoudl be free to own and modify a car in any way but should not be allowed drive them on the public road. They shoudl drive them on private premises - ie. car clubs caould be established by enthusiasts and they could get planning for a track where they can drive their cars.

Someone once suggested here that the government shoudl provide car tracks for enthusiasts to drive on! Ludicrous - if you cannot afford a luxury hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

Chris_Heilong

homeless student wrote: »

thought the modified sceen was dead in ireland these days? recession and all. i spent thousands modifying my car over the years, enjoyed it but getting pulled the whole time wasnt fun, the nct finally ended my interest in the sceen this year, havent been really into it in years anyway just still had the car, anyway im buying a new car now, wont have any mods, look a bit of advice to any young lad out there thinking of building a modified car, dont bother, not worth the hassle you will get from the guards and the nct are really clamping down on it now, theres no doubt in my mind they want modified cars off the road.

And this is my point exactly, they dont have to come out and say we are getting rid of modified cars but they will make it so much hassle(and a new money making racket I am sure) to have anything that is not ome that nobody will even bother, I just dont think this is a safety issue. It hasnt gone trough yet but the whole thing is very simular to this tread about the proposed EU rules on modifying http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056737476

Sofiztikated

Shure, don't let anything like being given an opportunity to voice your concerns, or have an input into the actual regulations get in the way of your "right" to slap 24 inch porche rims onto a Lupo.

There's a reason the NCT are "clamping" down on modifications. They don't follow the regulations that they have for pass vehicles. These fails mean retests. Restests mean money.

The easy way is to ensure that your modifications are legal/safe.

Do you believe that a bodykit, picked up for what, €500, has the same level of protection as a standard car kit, that the manufacturer has spend millions developing, testing, adjusting, etc?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti modification. I'd just like to see some rules to it, to stop the spate of cut springs and "Booooooooooo" exhausts.

Chris_Heilong

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Shure, don't let anything like being given an opportunity to voice your concerns, or have an input into the actual regulations get in the way of your "right" to slap 24 inch porche rims onto a Lupo.

There's a reason the NCT are "clamping" down on modifications. They don't follow the regulations that they have for pass vehicles. These fails mean retests. Restests mean money.

The easy way is to ensure that your modifications are legal/safe.

Do you believe that a bodykit, picked up for what, €500, has the same level of protection as a standard car kit, that the manufacturer has spend millions developing, testing, adjusting, etc?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti modification. I'd just like to see some rules to it, to stop the spate of cut springs and "Booooooooooo" exhausts.

I want people to go over to the site and give their opinions, This will impact everyone, Mechanics will be forced to charge main dealer prices for 'approved parts' it is not a good thing and cheap part does not mean poor parts. We dont have an epidemic in this of killer boyracers and everything is fine the way it is IMO.

Sofiztikated

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I want people to go over to the site and give their opinions, This will impact everyone, Mechanics will be forced to charge main dealer prices for 'approved parts' it is not a good thing and cheap part does not mean poor parts. We dont have an epidemic in this of killer boyracers and everything is fine the way it is IMO.

Which do you honestly think is safer?

The cheap chinese knockoff part, or the one that has gone through extensive testing, and meets all proposed safety guidelines?

antodeco

What about people who have classic cars, and any replacement parts have generally been modified to fit with modern day standards? Does this mean everytime something is replaced through a service, you need to get an engineers report explaining why you needed it replaced and why you had to use that part and not another?

Sofiztikated

antodeco wrote: »

What about people who have classic cars, and any replacement parts have generally been modified to fit with modern day standards? Does this mean everytime something is replaced through a service, you need to get an engineers report explaining why you needed it replaced and why you had to use that part and not another?

Such as brake pads and the like? I wouldn't imagine you would need it every time you need a service.

McP2011

The Reamer wrote: »

Personally, I would like to see the following mods banned outright:
- window tinting as it is a security risk as a policeman cannot see who is in it or what they are doing and needless to say the drivers vision is impaired.
- lowered suspensions as they could negatively affect the vehicles handling making it dangerous and they also damage the road by scraping in places. The public road is a public road, not a racing track.
- fitting a vehicle with an engine for which it was not orignally designed to have
- fitting aftermarket bumbers and bodykits as they might have different performance in crashes and be unable to absord energy like the original.
- removing the seats from a vehicle and replacing them with a type for which the vehicle was not designed. OFten you are removing pretensioners and other safety devices by doing this.
- for that matter, removal, modification of or otherwise tampering with any safety device or any safety critical component. - typical example is boyracers replacing the airbag steering wheel with a non airbag one. Changing pedals is another one.
- fittment of an exhaust which emits noise at a level in excess of that which was orignially on the car.

As far as I'm concerned, enthusiasts shoudl be free to own and modify a car in any way but should not be allowed drive them on the public road. They shoudl drive them on private premises - ie. car clubs caould be established by enthusiasts and they could get planning for a track where they can drive their cars.

Someone once suggested here that the government shoudl provide car tracks for enthusiasts to drive on! Ludicrous - if you cannot afford a luxury hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

Sorry but I disagree with a lot of your statements.

Window tinting a security risk? That is downright stupid. Also a light tint is perfectly ok and it also provides a bit of protection from the sun blinding you while driving.

Lowered suspension, obviously you dont know a whole pile about suspension set up's, a car lowered will greatly improvw handling, granted a car lowered very very lownisnt as good but it is still not going to send you of the road at a minutes notice. And I had to laugh at you saying it damages the roads, sure they might scrape at bit of the road in places,do they also cause the 1000's of potholes?

Fitting an engine that isnt orginally meant for the car is all part of the fun, also depending on the engine been fitted and the car in question, brakes are usual graded/suspension upgraded/strengthening etc etc

A bumper is just a normal bit of plastic its not going to stop a car from crumpling, its what's in behind the bumpers is what matters ie crossmembers/crash barriers, the design of chassis legs to crumple to takemthe force of an impact, all of which are not affected by fitting an aftermarket bumper.

The fitting of aftermarket seats granted there is a case for agruement there, in the idea of doing away with pretensioners, fitting the likes of bucket seats to a road car doesn't happen as much as it use to.

Again fitting different types of steering wheels without airbags is a matter of choice, some could argue that not all cars come with them? And should it not really be down to the owner of the vehicle, as really it is just going to affect the driver. Again this isn't as common as it once was.

Fitting a loud exhaust is a stupid one imo, does it really bother people that much?

Also that last statement of not being aloud to drive YOUR OWN modified on a public road is laughable, why shouldn't you be allowed to saying as you paying your insurance, road tax and have it tested?

From day one the motorist has always been under scrutiny.

Most modifiers take pride in there vehicles, and it has been going on since the dawn of the car. They have as much right to to with there car what they like once its not unsafe.

Sofiztikated

McP2011 wrote: »

Sorry but I disagree with a lot of your statements.

Window tinting a security risk? That is downright stupid. Also a light tint is perfectly ok and it also provides a bit of protection from the sun blinding you while driving.

Lowered suspension, obviously you dont know a whole pile about suspension set up's, a car lowered will greatly improvw handling, granted a car lowered very very lownisnt as good but it is still not going to send you of the road at a minutes notice. And I had to laugh at you saying it damages the roads, sure they might scrape at bit of the road in places,do they also cause the 1000's of potholes?

Fitting an engine that isnt orginally meant for the car is all part of the fun, also depending on the engine been fitted and the car in question, brakes are usual graded/suspension upgraded/strengthening etc etc

A bumper is just a normal bit of plastic its not going to stop a car from crumpling, its what's in behind the bumpers is what matters ie crossmembers/crash barriers, the design of chassis legs to crumple to takemthe force of an impact, all of which are not affected by fitting an aftermarket bumper.

The fitting of aftermarket seats granted there is a case for agruement there, in the idea of doing away with pretensioners, fitting the likes of bucket seats to a road car doesn't happen as much as it use to.

Again fitting different types of steering wheels without airbags is a matter of choice, some could argue that not all cars come with them? And should it not really be down to the owner of the vehicle, as really it is just going to affect the driver. Again this isn't as common as it once was.

Fitting a loud exhaust is a stupid one imo, does it really bother people that much?

Also that last statement of not being aloud to drive YOUR OWN modified on a public road is laughable, why shouldn't you be allowed to saying as you paying your insurance, road tax and have it tested?

From day one the motorist has always been under scrutiny.

Most modifiers take pride in there vehicles, and it has been going on since the dawn of the car. They have as much right to to with there car what they like once its not unsafe.

A engine swap, all part of the fun. Granted. But is it safe? Was it done properly? What about selling it on? A certified engine swap would at least give the new owner peace of mind that it isn't held in by an engine mount, a cable tie and a prayer.

And do what they want? Ok. But define unsafe. That's what this RSA forum is designed for.

And the is no such thing as road tax.

And saying paying your tax, insurance and it's tested, you should be able to do what you want? Well, not if your mods aren't declared, rendering your insurance invalid in a lot of cases, and tested, well, if the mods don't pass the test, well, it's not tested, is it? Or do you swap out the parts for OEM, and back again afterwards, effectively saying "My mods don't pass a National Car Test for safety, so I'll just put them back on again afterwards."

Argue that some cars don't have steering wheel airbags? To be fair, anything this side of a 95 more than likely has them. Definely anything this side of a 00 would.

The majority of lowered cars around have nothing to do with handling. It's all to do with "It's lower than a jack russell's balls, lawd." And yes, there are unsafe lowered cars out there.

EDIT: Oh, and a bumper is not just a pirce of plastic. Bumpers are designed for pedestrians, the way they react in the case of an impact with a pedestrian. Modifying the bumpers change impact zones, changing what would be a "safe" impact into an unknown impact.

steveone

All road users should have assurance that vehicles, when modified, are not rendered unsafe and
that the modification has been completed to an appropriate standard. Some vehicle modifiers
adhere to the original manufacturer’s guidelines and follow good engineering practice. However,
roadside inspections have indicated that many substandard vehicle modifications which pose a
threat to the driver and other road users currently exist. If a vehicle modification does not adhere
to legislative and / or manufacturer’s guidelines then the vehicle should not be allowed to use a
public road. To deal with this, the RSA is proposing that preventative measures be put in place to
better regulate vehicle modifications in this country and ultimately save lives.

Copied from, document..
get writing so!

McP2011

Sofiztikated wrote: »

A engine swap, all part of the fun. Granted. But is it safe? Was it done properly? What about selling it on? A certified engine swap would at least give the new owner peace of mind that it isn't held in by an engine mount, a cable tie and a prayer.

And do what they want? Ok. But define unsafe. That's what this RSA forum is designed for.

And the is no such thing as road tax.

And saying paying your tax, insurance and it's tested, you should be able to do what you want? Well, not if your mods aren't declared, rendering your insurance invalid in a lot of cases, and tested, well, if the mods don't pass the test, well, it's not tested, is it? Or do you swap out the parts for OEM, and back again afterwards, effectively saying "My mods don't pass a National Car Test for safety, so I'll just put them back on again afterwards."

Argue that some cars don't have steering wheel airbags? To be fair, anything this side of a 95 more than likely has them. Definely anything this side of a 00 would.

The majority of lowered cars around have nothing to do with handling. It's all to do with "It's lower than a jack russell's balls, lawd." And yes, there are unsafe lowered cars out there.

In my dealings, an engine swap is always done properly, its usually not a thing thats attempted by the typical modifiers whole only take on small jobs like changing wheels, spoilers, induction kits etc. An engine swap is also usually only even considered by serious modifiers (not your usualy man that lowers his vag car). When it comes to selling someone who has any idea at what there looking at will know that its done to a good standard.

As for the nct, half ofnthe people working in them haven't a clue. Im in the trade so I see what goes on. There is no reason to be swapping out parts for oem unless of coursenthe exhaust is a bit noisey, but thats a minor thing.

This thing about decked cars been bad is stupid imo, unless of course there running on cut springs. I know they typically only lower form looks but I was making an point to that other poster.

Everyone has there own opinions I guess but some people that give out about this type of stuff haven't got a notion. (Not getting at you by the way)

JimmyCrackCorn

Being in Australia they have various rules depending on the state. NSW requires an engineers report for a car to be deemed road legal.

Yes there is likely to be crossover between modifications fitted and next report being required.

In Ireland if you declare your modifications, normal practice is an engineers report. I had to do this for an exhaust some coil-overs and air filter. Not major modifications by any means.

Other states have stricter rules like not being able to alter boost levels or replace the factory ecu.

Queensland require the following modifications to be inspected

LIGHT VEHICLE MODIFICATION CODES FOR APPROVED PERSONS

CODE MODIFICATION
LA1 Engine Substitution
LA3 Turbocharger and Supercharger Installation
LB1 Transmission Substitution
LD1 Rear Axle Replacement
LD2 Differential Substitution
LG1 Brake System Substitution (Design)
LG2 Brake System Substitution (Modification)
LH1 Convertible and Cabriolet Conversion (Design)
LH2 Convertible and Cabriolet Conversion (Modification)
LH3 Passenger Vehicle Extended Wheelbase Conversion (Design)
LH4 Passenger Vehicle Extended Wheelbase Conversion (Modification)
LH5 Individual and Low Volume Vehicles (Design)
LH6 Individual and Low Volume Vehicles (Modification)
LH7 Panel Van to Utility Conversion
LH8 Roll Bar and Roll Cage Installation
LH9 Street Rod Certification (Concessional Registration)
LH10 Street Rod Certification (Unrestricted Registration)
LK1 Seating Capacity Alteration and Seat Belt Installation
LK2 Seat, Seat Anchorage and Seat Belt Anchorage Certification
LK6 Child Restraint Anchorage Installation
LK7 Motorcycle Seating Capacity Alteration
LM1 Fuel Tank Alteration
LO1 Australian Design Rule (ADR) Compliance
LO2 Pre 1972 Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance
LO3 Personally Imported Vehicle Compliance
LS1 Steering Conversion (Design)
LS2 Steering Conversion (Modification)
LT1 Beaming and Torsional Testing

I think the issue is a little confusing as here we have a situation where allot of modified cars have undeclared modifications, void insurance and who knows what kind of quality of parts,work and maintenance.


I'm all for a sensible approach to this but no matter what legislation gets passed it will not stop someone putting an exhaust and air filter on a clapped out neglected car and then driving everywhere like a spanner. Which in reality tends to be what is most visible and annoys the public the most. These cars will never have mods declared or engineers reports.

Someone who has pumped many thousands into a car on top of base price tends to have a better chance of doing things right.

smileyj1987

I would say if somebody wants to modify their car feel free to . If you do modify a car they should make you get a report off a mechanic for a fee of about €50 - €100 and if he deems the modifications ok then you send on his report to the insurance company / nct . If somebody sinks 1000's into modifying a car they will look after it better because it's a hobby .

What the RSA need to focus on more is educating people so they are better drivers . The amount of people who drive like spanners and ignore road safety is shocking .

Caliden

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Which do you honestly think is safer?

The cheap chinese knockoff part, or the one that has gone through extensive testing, and meets all proposed safety guidelines?

I think you will there are aftermarket parts out there that cost well above the cost of a factory part and are built to a higher standard as well as the polar opposite of a part that can be bought on ebay.

Please ensure you've got all the facts before stating that anything not factory standard is a 'cheap chinese knockoff'

--Kaiser--

McP2011 wrote: »

Sorry but I disagree with a lot of your statements.

Window tinting a security risk? That is downright stupid. Also a light tint is perfectly ok and it also provides a bit of protection from the sun blinding you while driving.

A certain amount of tint is legal but you should be able to see who us in the car.

Lowered suspension, obviously you dont know a whole pile about suspension set up's, a car lowered will greatly improvw handling, granted a car lowered very very lownisnt as good but it is still not going to send you of the road at a minutes notice. And I had to laugh at you saying it damages the roads, sure they might scrape at bit of the road in places,do they also cause the 1000's of potholes?

On the contrary, you don't know a whole pile of suspension if you think lowering a car automatically improves handling, often it won't. And there are many incidences of donkeys putting wrong type of springs on cars, using coilover springs on standard shocks or cutting springs. These are dangerous.

Fitting an engine that isnt orginally meant for the car is all part of the fun, also depending on the engine been fitted and the car in question, brakes are usual graded/suspension upgraded/strengthening etc etc

Yeah, which numptys don't always do, this is why an engineers report should be needed.

itting a loud exhaust is a stupid one imo, does it really bother people that much?

Yes, it does, people are quite vocal about it.

If you want to significantly modify your car, you should be held up to scrutiny of having an engineers report for such modifications. This is better than in some countries where even an aftermarket set of alloys is illegal

Sofiztikated

Caliden wrote: »

I think you will there are aftermarket parts out there that cost well above the cost of a factory part and are built to a higher standard as well as the polar opposite of a part that can be bought on ebay.

Please ensure you've got all the facts before stating that anything not factory standard is a 'cheap chinese knockoff'

I didn't say anything not factory standard is a cheap chinese knockoff. I know well how much aftermarket parts can cost.

Answer the question that was posed.

Which would be safer. The cheap chinese knockoff, or something that has undergone rigerous testing?

If the parts that you are fitting are built to a higher standard, the you'd be confident that your car would pass an engineers report?

Look, I'm not being a bitch about modifications. Every car I've owned has been modified in some way.

But look at the amount of people that fit HID's into projector lamps. Look at the amount of people that cut springs. Back yard engine swaps. Ridiculous sun strips. Graphics that increase the blind spot on the pillars. Cars that can't be driven over a small hump in the road.

This is givng modifiers a chance to actively engage with the RSA. Yes, they've had a hard time with ridiculous measures being proposed before, Ivor Calelly I'm looking at you, but this is your chance to have a say in what is and isn't deemed safe.

Stop just throwing your toys out of the pram, and saying "Shure, wat would u no bout modifyin. Deyre jus picking on us."

Get someone that can actually communicate what modifiers want. Someone that realises what actually is happening. Get them to attend this RSA forum, and show that not all modifiers are little scrotes with baseball caps, 24" wheels and exhausts that can swallow a small freighter!

Mully_2011

Most of the modified cars on the road are scrap simple as that. Harsh but true

smileyj1987

Mully_2011 wrote: »

Most of the modified cars on the road are scrap simple as that. Harsh but true

Not really because if a proper modified car is scrap , why somebody sink thousands into it ? I think you have a modified car confused with a little boy racer car . A modified car enthusiast will usually spend thousands on their car by putting epensive suspension , expensive paint jobs , expensive alloy wheels etc. . A little boy racer will spend about 200 hundred putting on the loudest exhaust and cutting his springs to lower the car .

Mully_2011

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Not really because if a proper modified car is scrap , why somebody sink thousands into it ? I think you have a modified car confused with a little boy racer car . A modified car enthusiast will usually spend thousands on their car by putting epensive suspension , expensive paint jobs , expensive alloy wheels etc. . A little boy racer will spend about 200 hundred putting on the loudest exhaust and cutting his springs to lower the car .

That whole modified car enthusiast vs Boy racer argument doesn't wash with me. Most modified car enthusiasts are Boy racers they are the exceptions all right.

Most of the modified cars don't have thousands sunk into them. Take a typical A4 usually its a cheap set of 250 euro Chinese coilovers,fibreglass RS4 kit replica wheels chinese remoulds and a pigeon exhaust.

I love modified cars when they are done right and there is cars in this country that are built to high standard however the majority of cars aren't.

Chris_Heilong

Bottom line, the cars are not really unsafe as if they were there would be higher death rates related to such, and there is just no evidence to say they are more dangerous, in fact my car is lowered, have larger wheels and a nice exhaust that sound good because of my V6 engine and I feel it is one of the safest cars I have ever driven, people that would usually walk on to the road or cars that usually would reverse out of a space without looking take notice si imo it is much safer than my other more ordinary quiet car that people seem to step in front of and cars pull out in front of far too often.

Sofiztikated

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Bottom line, the cars are not really unsafe as if they were there would be higher death rates related to such, and there is just no evidence to say they are more dangerous, in fact my car is lowered, have larger wheels and a nice exhaust that sound good because of my V6 engine and I feel it is one of the safest cars I have ever driven, people that would usually walk on to the road or cars that usually would reverse out of a space without looking take notice si imo it is much safer than my other more ordinary quiet car that people seem to step in front of and cars pull out in front of far too often.

How many single vehicle incidents are there?
What about young males dying on the road?

Of course they are going to lie blame on modifications, if they can't find anything else to blame. Occams razor, only I feel they have the wrong simple answer on this.

As I have said before, it's all well and good pontificating and crowing about how your car is super safe, and nothing has ever happened to you. Go, attend the forum, armed with facts rather than annecdotal evidence. Prove that modified cars aren't the automatic killer that a lot of people assume they are.

In my own experience, modified car enthusiasts are in the minority. Boy racers are everywhere. The car with €000's spent on it is definitely in the minority. Young lads want to modify their cars, and are taking the cheap way of doing it. I can think of a number of cars, mostly old diesels, that were bought on the cheap, and next day, phat rims, decked, and the like, with no thought to the fact that the car might not be fit for it.

A system in place to regulate it might save a life. Is it worth it? In my opinion, yes.

Chris_Heilong

Sofiztikated wrote: »

How many single vehicle incidents are there?
What about young males dying on the road?

Of course they are going to lie blame on modifications, if they can't find anything else to blame. Occams razor, only I feel they have the wrong simple answer on this.

As I have said before, it's all well and good pontificating and crowing about how your car is super safe, and nothing has ever happened to you. Go, attend the forum, armed with facts rather than annecdotal evidence. Prove that modified cars aren't the automatic killer that a lot of people assume they are.

In my own experience, modified car enthusiasts are in the minority. Boy racers are everywhere. The car with €000's spent on it is definitely in the minority. Young lads want to modify their cars, and are taking the cheap way of doing it. I can think of a number of cars, mostly old diesels, that were bought on the cheap, and next day, phat rims, decked, and the like, with no thought to the fact that the car might not be fit for it.

A system in place to regulate it might save a life. Is it worth it? In my opinion, yes.

These arguments are always weak, its like saying we should ban airplanes because if it just saves one life then it will be worth it, My problem is that I dont think this will turn out to be a fair test, I think it will turn into another money making racket that takes away peoples freedoms, just like what motors tax and VRT have done, now the majority of people are buying crap cars, a car is not just an A to B form of transport and I for one would like the right to choose if my car has leather seats or alloy wheels with out been persecuted,

"In my own experience, modified car enthusiasts are in the minority. Boy racers are everywhere. "

funny you should say this, IMO when I think of a boy racer I think of people in really bad taste mods attached to their cars, see 'Best Skangermobiles online' section of the motoring forum, cause other road users problems and are generally hooligans, anyone who is not like this is an enthusiast who love their cars.

Sofiztikated

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

These arguments are always weak, its like saying we should ban airplanes because if it just saves one life then it will be worth it, My problem is that I dont think this will turn out to be a fair test, I think it will turn into another money making racket that takes away peoples freedoms, just like what motors tax and VRT have done, now the majority of people are buying crap cars, a car is not just an A to B form of transport and I for one would like the right to choose if my car has leather seats or alloy wheels with out been persecuted,

"In my own experience, modified car enthusiasts are in the minority. Boy racers are everywhere. "

funny you should say this, IMO when I think of a boy racer I think of people in really bad taste mods attached to their cars, see 'Best Skangermobiles online' section of the motoring forum, cause other road users problems and are generally hooligans, anyone who is not like this is an enthusiast who love their cars.

No, it's like saying that the airlines and airplanes should be regulated, and fit to meet a test.

To be honest, I don't care any more. I've tried explaining why this should be important to you. But rather than do something, you'll just bitch and moan, and stupid regulations will be passed.

mik_da_man

Lads, This RSA stuff is actually worrying me.
I personally spend a bit of cash on my cars, I'd call myself an enthusiast rather than a boy racer.
From reading the questionnaire, they have a very negative view of modifications.
To me it reads like - "We don't like modifactions, what can we do to ban them, and how can we penalise people who have them"

Now I think a very clear distinction needs to be made between the groups who cut springs, drill holes in exhausts and stick aeroplane wings on cars Vs the groups who actually get proper modifactions done.
I can see a real case for cracking down on the first group, but not the second, my fear is that we all will be tarred with the same brush.

We have the NCT, can we expand on it's scope to check modifactions?
Also the engineers report has it's merits, however, from personal experience, very few companies are willing to do this work.
I'd have no issue paying to get one done and If it was reasonably priced and widely available I'm sure most wouldn't have an issue getting it done.

How many people here are involved in Car Clubs?
Would it be worthwhile organising reps form some of the clubs to make a united submission to the RSA?
I'd be up for it anyway.

JimmyCrackCorn

Sxoc already have a e-mail campaign.
Id suggest that we do the same.


Luckily EU competition law is actually on the side of modified car owners in that they cant ban non oem components as it would be anti-competitive and lock out spurious parts.

The issue is finding a spokes person in modified cars/bikes with credibility. The ability to articulate a point and debate. The loudest people tend to be teenagers who get upset they cant do doughnuts in carparks or on crossroads.

The good news is this is making waves in
-Classic car circles
-Motorbike forums
-Car enthusiast sites.

So if folk would like to begin wording an official letter/e-mail id highly recommend you do same now.

Remember to keep it official, business like and Make valid points.

4wd

cars dont kill people drivers do. wheater it be lack of maintance to just bad driving .
being an engineer im all for the extra work believe me but only a small fraction of cars is see are modified id be lucky if one in a five hundred is a modified car and i can easily see up to 5000 a year. the vast majority of accidents i see are caused by carless driving . i see plenty of fatalities and injuries relating to accidents and have seen no direct link to the modified cars . u can be killed driving anything anywhere ,
if anything ive seen more fatalities due to large commerical vehicles and busses and im strugleing to remember modded fatility in modren times that i have viewed . i think the last one was a 1.8 gsr that spun into a lamppost killing driver and passenger , turned out to be a stolen car so it doenst count. i even think the car was standard so i see no reason for the r.s.a to even suggest this . they would be better of to put a few more telly ads explianing how the inside lane on the m50(countray to popular believe its not the middle one) and more education on roundabouts for drivers as well as pedestrion training in schools for the kids to cross the raod and bycle training for the older kids with free high viz jackets and helmets along with some semenars on the results of road accidents for the late teens to show them the harsh reality of the suition..it would take the unrealistic version of accidents as shown by r.s.a in there telly ads, with plots more complex than a political esbionage film. the dog with the shifty eyes , a game of 3 and in, the old reliable honda civic speeding trought the country with token soon to be paralised girlfriend , thumping tunes and more rolls than o briens. instead show a family left without a loved one a real person not an actor, and let them tell you the pain they feel every minute of the day and let them tell there version. now theres an idea to safe lives rather tahn as always penilise the remaining youth of the country . again i see the result of these accidents and i can safely say your only as safe as the next ejit coming at you. safe driving to u all.

paddy147

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

WTF is this????? Remember that EU ruling a while back that was about preventing people from modifying their cars...well it looks like the RSA are trying to actually bring it in over here. This is really a bad thing for people who want to improve features of their cars.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Vehicle-Standards/Information-Notes-Consultations--EU-proposals-/Consultations-/Active-Consultations/Consultation-on-Post-Registration-Vehicle-Modifications-/

And yet Gay Bryrne gets to go around in his car without wearing a seatbelt.

They never opened their mouths about that though...did they???

W^nkers indeed.:mad::rolleyes:

steveone

The Reamer wrote: »

That would work in theory, but in practice what would happen is that engineers will be very cautious about certifying a modified vehicle because if it were ever involved in a crash they would come in for serious questioning.
To counter this risk, the engineer would charge stupendous sums to examine and certify a vehicle, if they would do it at all.
They would also stick to the safer low key stuff like changing lights or tyre sizes. As for major modifications like any chasis work, installing a different engine or suspension work, no engineer in his right mind would take on the risk of some scrote going araound in that.

Think i'm wrong? Look how hard it is to get a structural engineer to issue a fire cert for a building.

On the flip side, it would be a lovely gig for the mech eng's to get in on.


Personally, I would like to see the following mods banned outright:
- window tinting as it is a security risk as a policeman cannot see who is in it or what they are doing and needless to say the drivers vision is impaired.
- lowered suspensions as they could negatively affect the vehicles handling making it dangerous and they also damage the road by scraping in places. The public road is a public road, not a racing track.
- fitting a vehicle with an engine for which it was not orignally designed to have
- fitting aftermarket bumbers and bodykits as they might have different performance in crashes and be unable to absord energy like the original.
- removing the seats from a vehicle and replacing them with a type for which the vehicle was not designed. OFten you are removing pretensioners and other safety devices by doing this.
- for that matter, removal, modification of or otherwise tampering with any safety device or any safety critical component. - typical example is boyracers replacing the airbag steering wheel with a non airbag one. Changing pedals is another one.
- fittment of an exhaust which emits noise at a level in excess of that which was orignially on the car.

As far as I'm concerned, enthusiasts shoudl be free to own and modify a car in any way but should not be allowed drive them on the public road. They shoudl drive them on private premises - ie. car clubs caould be established by enthusiasts and they could get planning for a track where they can drive their cars.

Someone once suggested here that the government shoudl provide car tracks for enthusiasts to drive on! Ludicrous - if you cannot afford a luxury hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

Oh my god this post gave me heartburn-

how hard is it to get a cert from a structural engineer? ask the people in belmaine??


tinted windows a security risk?, as are sunglasses-ban them, sunshades,night time- thats a major factor in our inability to see....

fitting aftermarket seats? such as those certified by FIA safety standards? and possibly utilising harnesses ELIMINATING the need for an airbag?
yes this should be banned....

Installing an engine into a car not designed to take it? that's why we redesign them to take the new engines.....its just not that easy to throw in an aul' engine..trust me...I know...parts involved come from licenced fabricators....
and what if.....the manufacturers made a car that had a selection of engine options....into the one chassis? not that it goes on or anything...or that the same engine might appear with a different badge, that doesn't happen either.....


lowered suspension negatively affecting handling.. I lowered a subaru and couldn't drive it out of my town, it wouldn't go over the speed bumps that were higher than the kerbs....
yes I agree the current trend for lowering one corner of the car is not good....

fitting an exhaust thats louder than the original? the cyclist in front of me on the way home didn't complain, he had his Ipod on.....

as for damaging the road?? I've gone through four sets of wheels....

this is the reason the feedback needs to get to the rsa..this is what's drafting the legislation..
and the best is they say everyone should be able to modify their cars...

sometimes I fear for the human race, its just as well there was no one around to warn cavemen of the dangers of striking flint and making fires......

MikeD22

The problem of road safety in this country runs much deeper than modified cars. The issue has been touched upon many times on this forum and its driver training.

As for modified cars, there is two sides to the coin. One side is the cheap, do it yourself, look at me lad and the other is the ones who take massive pride in there machines and treat them like they would a family pet. I can speak from experience as i have owned modified cars and indeed modified cars myself. Its a passion. It's a hobby. it's a lifestyle. You have to live it to fully understand.

I agree with the principal which the RSA put forward but it's the way they will go about it is what's worrying me. They are like fishermen. They throw the net out as far and as wide as possible, bring it in and look through to see what money can be made. I think the best way forward is to expand the NCT to include an inspection on modified parts and to deem them safe, but you know what.....it already does that. I've put 4 different modified cars through an NCT and each passed and was deemed safe for the road. I only used quality parts for my cars do you know why, because it's my car and it represents me on the road and i want quality to show through.

The RSA, while they are making a difference in terms of road safety, are focusing on the popular decision rather than the right one. In terms of making the road safer there are a few things which could be changed which would improve the numbers again.

-reduce the licence renewal to 5 years and have a mandatory refreshers course to be attended at a time suitable to the person
-Start driver training in transition/5th year in school as most will be of driving age then
-Stricter driving tests that take in all aspects of driving or even a continuous course over a set period with continuous assessments
-Better road layout and signage

Modified cars are not a problem in themselves but rather they are used to portray a problem. The problem runs much deeper and will take time and money to sort but they are not willing to tackle it because it will affect the masses but with this campaign only a small percentage of road users will be affected, thus maintaining the status quo that they are making the road safer when in fact they are doing very little to find the root of the problem and solve it once and for all.


Feel free to take this post apart and tell me i'm wrong and i know nothing if you want. I've had my say, that's my opinion which in the grand scheme of things will make no difference what so ever....

The Reamer

The Reamer wrote: »

Personally, I would like to see the following mods banned outright:
- window tinting as it is a security risk as a policeman cannot see who is in it or what they are doing and needless to say the drivers vision is impaired.

I used to own a car with about 90% rear tints, never once 'impaired my vision'

- lowered suspensions as they could negatively affect the vehicles handling making it dangerous and they also damage the road by scraping in places. The public road is a public road, not a racing track.

My current car has aftermarket coilovers which lower the height. This has a huge impact on handling in a POSITIVE way. By lowering the center of gravity the car is less likely to roll or bend in a corner causing the driver to loose control.

- fitting a vehicle with an engine for which it was not orignally designed to have

Interesting point, I in some way agree with this point.

- fitting aftermarket bumbers and bodykits as they might have different performance in crashes and be unable to absord energy like the original.

I believe regulating the aftermarket parts industry is a better option, if somebody wants to change the image of their car that's their choice.

- removing the seats from a vehicle and replacing them with a type for which the vehicle was not designed. OFten you are removing pretensioners and other safety devices by doing this.

Yet sometimes you are improving your own safety by having proper back protection, side protection and other forms of protection properly designed seats include. They should however be regulated as I mentioned before and require special testing under NCT

- for that matter, removal, modification of or otherwise tampering with any safety device or any safety critical component. - typical example is boyracers replacing the airbag steering wheel with a non airbag one. Changing pedals is another one.

Standard pedals can actually be a lot more dangerous than aftermarket ones.

- fittment of an exhaust which emits noise at a level in excess of that which was orignially on the car.

Some people including myself like distinct tones made from an engine, a lot of factory sports cars come with exhausts which have a very dull sound, just as some come designed to sound more exciting.
For some it's not about loudness but about tone, noise level should be controlled but if somebody chooses to change the sound of their car that shouldn't be an issue. There are some Exhausts designed for noise more than anything (Buddyclub spec 1) and make a horrible sound which is disgusting and distracting.

As far as I'm concerned, enthusiasts shoudl be free to own and modify a car in any way but should not be allowed drive them on the public road. They shoudl drive them on private premises - ie. car clubs caould be established by enthusiasts and they could get planning for a track where they can drive their cars.

Someone once suggested here that the government shoudl provide car tracks for enthusiasts to drive on! Ludicrous - if you cannot afford a luxury hobby then you shouldn't be doing it.

Your last point is ridiculous. Modifying a car properly will have no impact on the safety of the person driving the car or others around them. This is why with regulation there should be no reason to disallow it. There are laws in place which everybody driving most abide, modified or standard. A track is for racing which not everybody with a modified car wants to do.

For a car enthusiast their car is a statement and something to be proud of, something personal. For you however it sounds like a car is just a mode of transport to get you from A to B, this is why you can't see it from another person's point of view and you will never understand.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

anyone with a loud exhaust should be immediately taken out of the car
and beaten to death with the offending exhaust pipe

end of story

--Kaiser--

steveone wrote: »

sometimes I fear for the human race, its just as well there was no one around to warn cavemen of the dangers of striking flint and making fires......

Are you comparing modifying cars to the invention of fire?

paddy147

DaDumTish wrote: »

anyone with a loud exhaust should be immediately taken out of the car
and beaten to death with the offending exhaust pipe

end of story

98db at 2/3 throttle is the legal noise limit before a cars exhaust becomes illegal due to noise.

Maybe research the facts before posting comments like that here in future.

JimmyCrackCorn

*Mod warning*


Can we get back on topic and stop the bickering or ill have to do something mod like.

Chris_Heilong

Apparently people are planning a protest for this at the RSA office in Mayo http://www.facebook.com/events/306440722792181/ dont really know if this is the right coarse of action and if done wrong could make things worse for us modified car enthusiasts.

Sofiztikated

FFS, has anyone on that FB page actually read what is being proposed?

Protest away, won't do the "cause" any good, because what they are protesting against isn't what's actually being proposed.

steveone

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Are you comparing modifying cars to the invention of fire?

coining an image to describe the type of person whose mission is to save us from ourselves, and hault invention, ingenuity, creativity and fun in the process....such as ...well fire is dangerous, harmful, causes smoke...which is unfriendly...kind of thing that we would be prevented from using.... like alcohol.....

btw fire wasn't invented it was a gift .....

Sofiztikated

steveone wrote: »

coining an image to describe the type of person whose mission is to save us from ourselves, and hault invention, ingenuity, creativity and fun in the process....such as ...well fire is dangerous, harmful, causes smoke...which is unfriendly...kind of thing that we would be prevented from using.... like alcohol.....

btw fire wasn't invented it was a gift .....

And with that, I'm done. G'lak with the protests. :rolleyes:

JohnBoy26

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Which do you honestly think is safer?

The cheap chinese knockoff part, or the one that has gone through extensive testing, and meets all proposed safety guidelines?

Many after market parts are made to oem specifications and are just as safe as genuine parts.