Still think cheap diesel is worth it?

Nissan doctor

Its a well documented fact that modern diesels give various problems when not used or looked after correctly and how expensive these problems can be. The likes of DMF's, DPF's, EGR's etc etc all coming under fire.

And while its very true that many people have bought diesels that simply have no need for them, not all the expensive issues are down to how the car is used.

Some of the most expensive to repair problems with modern diesels are down to the all to common problem in this country of poor quality fuel. That can be fuel from substandard storage tanks or washed/laundered fuel which can both cause debris and wear in the fuel system which will eventually lead to failure of parts like the high pressure pump and injectors which, on modern common rail engines, run extremely fine tolerances so are easily damaged.

So I thought I'd post another few photo's of the type of damaged that can be caused and the extent of the work required to properly repair the damage.

The car is a 2009 Renault Megane 1.5dci with 85,000kms which came it with power loss under load as well as a warning notice on the dash.

A diagnostic scan showed a number of faults regarding rail pressure as well as a flow control valve fault. Live data showed the rail pressure rise with engine RPM to a little over 1000 bar(modern systems run at up to 2000 bar with higher pressure systems on the way) at which point the car would loose power, rail pressure would drop to approx 100 bar and the warning would appear on the dash.

A pic of the warning:



After the readings from electronic diagnostics, it was on to physical diagnostics. First, testing the leak back from the injectors. Modern common rail systems running efficiently should have little or no leak back(unused fuel). Any leak back can be attributed mainly to dirty or malfunctioning injectors.

The leak back test showed excess amounts on all cylinders, especially injector 2. Fuel samples from the leak back tester also showed minute traces of metallic swarf indicating damage to the internal components of the high pressure pump.



The next step was to take a sample from the fuel filter, this showed some dirt particles so I decided to open the fuel filter to gauge the extent of the problem. As you can see....it was a big problem:



At this point it was time to remove all the fuel injection components and send the injectors, rail and pump to be tested.





While these where away, the next step, with known and obvious contamination in the system, is to remove the remainder of the fuel system for inspection and cleaning. This includes all the fuel lines, connectors and the tank itself.







With the tank removed, first the area around the fuel sender opening must be cleaned to insure that no(more) dirt gets into the tank.



With the sender removed, more evidence of the contamination is obvious:



And inside the tank(a little hard to see in the pics), lots more metallic swarf indicating that the pump has certainly begun to break up:

Nissan doctor

With the tank and lines cleaned out(it takes an age to fully and properly clean the tank:( ), the pump and injectors return having been reconditioned by a Delphi agent(the injection system on the Renault is Delphi). It isn;t always possible to recondition the parts, it depends on how badly worn the internal casings etc are. In this case they were ok.

Pump:



Injectors and rail:





Injectors, rail and pump refitted:



Pipework refitted:



Fuel system wiring and connections refitted and the cover refitted:

Nissan doctor

All fuel lines, tank, exhaust, heatshields etc refitted:



Next is a new timing belt as this had to be removed to remove the pump and timing belts, once initially tensioned, cannot be reused:

Genuine V aftermarket....not such a big difference:



New belt kit in place and the remainder of the fuel pipework in the engine bay cleaned and refitted:





The final part of the fuel system, a new fuel filter. For this I used a genuine Renault/Mahle filter as Renault specify their genuine filters to filter as low as 2 microns, where as other manufacturers and the aftermarket are generally 4-5 microns(even the aftermarket Mahle filters).



And the filter fitted into position in the inner wheel arch:



The final steps, some nice fresh, clean diesel:



The final step before start up is programming and adapting the new components to the ECU. The reason for this with the injectors especially, is that each injector has tiny differences in their flow rates and each one, when manufactured, has a code on it which, when programmed, tells the ECU the exact flow rate so that the fuelling can be precisely controlled. Failure to code them can lead to poor idle, running issues and excess carbon build up, which itself leads to further issues. When doing this, its important to remember that Renault engines are backwards, i.e, cylinder 1 is at the gearbox end and 4 is at the timing belt end.





So there you go, an very expensive repair for a fairly new car with low mileage, almost certainly cause by the owner, by their own admission, always filling up at the cheapest no brand station close to where they live.

Thanks for reading....

joujoujou

Now, how much?

Nissan doctor

joujoujou wrote: »

Now, how much?

In excess of 2K....:eek:

The Pontiac

Very professional job.

I only got cheap diesel once - the non-brand, cash-only place in Fermoy. Then I got worried.. Hope one tank won't do much damage.

Is Dipetane worth added to the ordinary diesel - topaz, texaco etc., or is this diesel good enough on its own?

anthony4335

Problem is that is becomming harder and harder to find nice petrol cars. That is some impressive work.

Lucifer

Nissan doctor wrote: »

When doing this, its important to remember that Renault engines are backwards, i.e, cylinder 1 is at the gearbox end and 4 is at the timing belt end.

Dont get caught out, all M9R 2.0 renault engines have cylinder 1 located at the timing chain end.

dgt

A very detailed and well informed post, thank you ND It's this sort of stuff people need to see before they choose the cheaper unbranded diesel over reputable brands.

This thread also reinforces my choice to stay with a mechanical IDI setup

glic83

when you say no brand diesel, i sometimes get mine at the local home heating oil distributor, John o' Neill's in Charleville, would this diesel be classed as poor? its not that i go there cos of price as it usually the same as topaz but i just get some when im getting a drum of kero.

The Pontiac

glic83 wrote: »

when you say no brand diesel, i sometimes get mine at the local home heating oil distributor, John o' Neill's in Charleville, would this diesel be classed as poor? its not that i go there cos of price as it usually the same as topaz but i just get some when im getting a drum of kero.

No way, they're a totally legit outfit. I wouldn't worry.

fasttalkerchat

Sometimes it is worth the risk. If you have a 10 year old runabout that you can sell for parts as soon as something goes wrong then there is a good saving to be had running on the £1/litre stuff.
If you're only driving in the North its better to use the pure Red/Green because the fine is much less there. Note, I mean better value, not advising someone to do something illegal.

My post is about the cheap stuff only, not laundered fuel 5c less than the branded stuff... you won't make a saving there!

OP, thanks for all the info. Out of interest... If you replaced only the pump and the fuel filters, how long would you expect to get before something else went in the car?

MugMugs

Another cracking post ND.

Thanks

deandean

Very good thread Nissan Doctor, thank you.

I only buy diesel from 'branded' stations, and I have been using the Millers Ecomax fuel treatment for the last few years, sofa go good.

rex-x

I presume you mean BAR not PSI in the original post, if the pump only peaks at 2000 PSI then you have serious problems 26000 PSI is more the pressure they run at for a CP2 pump at peak pressure

mondeoman2

MugMugs wrote: »

Another cracking post ND.

Thanks

Brilliant Post,Very Interesting,Keep Up The Good Work:)

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

In excess of 2K....:eek:

The price actually ended up a good bit cheaper then 2k, approx €1600 as reconditioning the pump, rail and injectors worked out a good deal cheaper then replacments.

The Pontiac wrote: »

Very professional job.

I only got cheap diesel once - the non-brand, cash-only place in Fermoy. Then I got worried.. Hope one tank won't do much damage.

Is Dipetane worth added to the ordinary diesel - topaz, texaco etc., or is this diesel good enough on its own?

It won't do any harm, It can help to reduce the effects of carbon build up depending on how the car is used. It would also reduce the effects/possible damage if you did inadvertently fill with poor quality fuel.

anthony4335 wrote: »

Problem is that is becomming harder and harder to find nice petrol cars. That is some impressive work.

Things will be back to normal shortly, diesel was only a quick solution to the Euro emissions laws, petrols have could up and will be back in the next generation of cars.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

OP, thanks for all the info. Out of interest... If you replaced only the pump and the fuel filters, how long would you expect to get before something else went in the car?

Not very long at all, If all the contamination isn't cleaned from the system then the new pump will start to become damaged pretty much straight away. Also, if the pump is damaged, then the injectors will be damaged too.

rex-x wrote: »

I presume you mean BAR not PSI in the original post, if the pump only peaks at 2000 PSI then you have serious problems 26000 PSI is more the pressure they run at for a CP2 pump at peak pressure

Yes I do:o The joys of proof reading the night after you've already posted.:)

barneygumble99

this may be a stupid question, but how do the metal parts get through the filter??

Nissan doctor

barneygumble99 wrote: »

this may be a stupid question, but how do the metal parts get through the filter??

The filter is before the pump and injectors. What happens is that either some dirt from the fuel makes it though the filter eventually, or the poor lubrication properties of washes/laundered diesel, damage the pump, causing the metal swarf, this then makes its way from the pump, through the rail and into the injectors, which then don't operate properly so the leak back to the tank increases which is how the swarf ends up back in the tank.

deandean

Nissan doctor wrote: »

The filter is before the pump and injectors. What happens is that either some dirt from the fuel makes it though the filter eventually, or the poor lubrication properties of washes/laundered diesel, damage the pump, causing the metal swarf, this then makes its way from the pump, through the rail and into the injectors, which then don't operate properly so the leak back to the tank increases which is how the swarf ends up back in the tank.

Hmm..isn't there a fuel return line too, ND, in addition to the injector leak-off, so that there's always a good amount of fuel being looped back to the tank? I don't think that swarf would get through the injectors into the leak-back lines. I would've thought the swarf comes from the HP pump, goes back via the main return line to the tank, gets pumped around again etc.

That photo of the debris in the tank does add weight to the old tale about not running your tank down to the last dregs.

spiggotpaddy

A lot of people with little or no interest in cars think their doing the right thing buying a diesel. The dealers convince them, regardless of mileage.
I've filled my petrol tank on friday, 55 litres, I got 436 miles before the warning light on monday. You could argue that if I ran a derv I could have saved 25 or even 35 on juice. But most of the time the car is used to nip into town a mile away.
In ten years of ownership how much have I saved by not replacing injectors, fuel pump,fuel filters, DPF, flywheel, EGR and ear plugs.
The doc is right, as soon as people realize it was all a big swindle, they'll go back to unleaded for nipping to the shops, unless you go to the moon and back every year.

Plug

Good post ND, I was also going to point out about bar instead of PSI but rex-x got before me. Our teacher in FAS was telling us some new Audi's are operating up to 3050 bar:eek:

Nissan doctor

deandean wrote: »

Hmm..isn't there a fuel return line too, ND, in addition to the injector leak-off, so that there's always a good amount of fuel being looped back to the tank? I don't think that swarf would get through the injectors into the leak-back lines. I would've thought the swarf comes from the HP pump, goes back via the main return line to the tank, gets pumped around again etc.

That photo of the debris in the tank does add weight to the old tale about not running your tank down to the last dregs.

Not on Modern common rail systems. As with the latest petrol injection systems, the fuel flow is controlled so precisely that unless something is wrong, there should be almost no return. Hence why a leak back test is used to diagnose faults with the injectors as there should be none. The leak back lines from the injectors are the only place any fuel can return.

As I said, most of the latest petrol engines also use non return systems.

Nissan doctor

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

A lot of people with little or no interest in cars think their doing the right thing buying a diesel. The dealers convince them, regardless of mileage.
I've filled my petrol tank on friday, 55 litres, I got 436 miles before the warning light on monday. You could argue that if I ran a derv I could have saved 25 or even 35 on juice. But most of the time the car is used to nip into town a mile away.
In ten years of ownership how much have I saved by not replacing injectors, fuel pump,fuel filters, DPF, flywheel, EGR and ear plugs.
The doc is right, as soon as people realize it was all a big swindle, they'll go back to unleaded for nipping to the shops, unless you go to the moon and back every year.

The dealers just sold what the market wanted. Low CO2 cars mean low tax, that is all the general public see and they go and buy diesel without any education.

As I mentioned though, small capacity turbocharged petrol engines will be the norm for the coming generation of cars(the likes of fords 1.0 eco boost and VAG's tsi are a couple that are here already) and this is where most of the research and future developments are centering around.

Stallingrad

Excellent post ND, very informative.

Out of interest do you run any fuel through the system after cleaning and before firing her up to flush out any last remaining debris, just to be sure to be sure?

Andrew_Doran

Sorry to go off topic but I think it's informative..

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

A lot of people with little or no interest in cars think their doing the right thing buying a diesel. The dealers convince them, regardless of mileage.
I've filled my petrol tank on friday, 55 litres, I got 436 miles before the warning light on monday. You could argue that if I ran a derv I could have saved 25 or even 35 on juice. But most of the time the car is used to nip into town a mile away.
In ten years of ownership how much have I saved by not replacing injectors, fuel pump,fuel filters, DPF, flywheel, EGR and ear plugs.
The doc is right, as soon as people realize it was all a big swindle, they'll go back to unleaded for nipping to the shops, unless you go to the moon and back every year.

Worst of all diesels are also causing significant harm to people.

BBC Radio 4 recently reported on a big surge in the number of babies being admitted to hospital with a serious condition called infant bronchiolitis *, and reported on diesel exhausts causing cancer and other nasties.

They have discovered that it's largely down to the increase in the number of diesel cars on the road, and that in reality they aren't much cleaner now than they were 20 years ago. Increased efficiency is also making them produce more NOX emissions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lhgyn
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/07_08_12_fo4_dieselpollution.pdf

Not so "clean" or "green" after all.

(* One of my children was in Temple St. with it for 3 weeks hooked up to oxygen and intravenous feeding tubes during the 2010 cold spell when from time to time around our house reeked of diesel fumes from the main road due to sitting air. Always despised diesels and will never own one but only discovered the link later.)

mfceiling

Great post ND.

I always wonder at people buying cheap diesel. You save maybe 6-7 cents a litre....50 litres a week...€3 - €3.50.

Is it worth that to end up on the side of the road with a fortune of a bill for an engine rebuild? No.

creedp

Andrew_Doran wrote: »

Not so "clean" or "green" after all.

The Greens introducing emissions based road tax/VRT had nothing to do with diesel being clean and healthy and all to do with CO2 emissions which has no impact on the health of Irish people but will help the polar bear or allow the Chinese to open up coal fired electricity generating stations by the week. Makes you feel the warm glow though!

RealExpert

Excellent and very informative post Nissan doctor.

I know this is not aimed at renaults but unfortunately I am in possession of a 05 Megane 1.5dci which I spend more time fixing than driving.I got 4 injectors reconditioned a 2months ago at a cost 480 euro luckily there was no pump damage.I dont know why anyone would buy one as they are worthless on a trade-in..........I learned the hard way.

((((The leak back lines from the injectors are the only place any fuel can return.)))
On 05 Models the leak-off pipes join via t-connector coming from the top of the pump and then goes through the filter before returning to the tank.
I havent cut open an old filter to see if the return fuel is actually filtered or not.
I do have an old filter (sealed unit) and I will cut it open tomorrow to see.........

Stallingrad

RealExpert wrote: »

I dont know why anyone would buy one as they are worthless on a trade-in..........I learned the hard way.

Funny that, we sold our 2006 for near €4K.

ThisRegard

I see it's a belt rather than a chain used for timing, are most smaller capacity modern diesels belt rather than chain these days ? I've the same engine as the one in the post so found it quite interesting.

That was a big repair. If my maths are correct the owner would have wanted to save about 40 cent a liter compared to a branded station to break even.

At 10 c/l savings over 85k km would have been (assuming the car fuel consumption averaged 5 l/100:

0.5 c/km x 85000 km = 47500 c = €475

Not good.

Nissan doctor

ThisRegard wrote: »

I see it's a belt rather than a chain used for timing, are most smaller capacity modern diesels belt rather than chain these days ? I've the same engine as the one in the post so found it quite interesting.

Most engines use timing belts although chains have become popular again in recent years. New belt technology will likely see the shift back to belts on the most economical engines in the coming years.

samih wrote: »

That was a big repair. If my maths are correct the owner would have wanted to save about 40 cent a liter compared to a branded station to break even.

At 10 c/l savings over 85k km would have been (assuming the car fuel consumption averaged 5 l/100:

0.5 c/km x 85000 km = 47500 c = €475

Not good.

True, and even at that, the savings are rarely as much as 10 c/l. The cheapest stations up my way are normally only 3-4 cent cheaper then the branded stations.

darragh o meara

Not to question your knowledge but are the Delphi systems not prone to this problem. I've done a lot of research into the failures occurring in the ford commonrail engines. So far from my research seems to point towards the reduction of the lubrication properties of diesel in this country. It's the diesel that does the lubrication in these pumps hence they start to break up over time when not sufficiently lubricated. I ran a tdci mondeo on nothing but topaz diesel for over 100k and experienced the very same problems. In fact a few taxi drivers I know swear by putting a cap of engine oil into the tank with every fill of diesel to boost the lubrication properties of the diesel.

I agree that modern Diesel engines are extremely sensitive to changes in quality of fuel and that washed diesel is causing a lot of trouble ( and keeping the diesel specialists busy )

Finally big thumbs up on a excellent and well documented write up of the procedure.

Nissan doctor

darragh o meara wrote: »

Not to question your knowledge but are the Delphi systems not prone to this problem. I've done a lot of research into the failures occurring in the ford commonrail engines. So far from my research seems to point towards the reduction of the lubrication properties of diesel in this country. It's the diesel that does the lubrication in these pumps hence they start to break up over time when not sufficiently lubricated. I ran a tdci mondeo on nothing but topaz diesel for over 100k and experienced the very same problems. In fact a few taxi drivers I know swear by putting a cap of engine oil into the tank with every fill of diesel to boost the lubrication properties of the diesel.

I agree that modern Diesel engines are extremely sensitive to changes in quality of fuel and that washed diesel is causing a lot of trouble ( and keeping the diesel specialists busy )

Finally big thumbs up on a excellent and well documented write up of the procedure.

Your absolutely right, the Delphi systems do seem to be the most prone to issues, especially the pump used on the Renault/Nissan dci, which have a smaller housing then the ones used by Ford.

@81

Fantastic thanks, Nissan Doctor, if this doesn't frighten the bejesus out of people I don't know what will !

I'll tell people some interesting facts.

A Car converted to LPG @81 c/l that gets 30 mpg is as cheap to run as a 60 mpg diesel at 1.56 c/L and usually the price drops to 75 c/l in Summer. And that's tank mpg not measured by resetting the counter after every trip! Just look up lpg.ie he has is an outlet in Naas, Kilcullen, Clonmel and Gorey.

So I think at this stage LPG is a no brainer especially with the amount of decent petrol cars for sale at a few thousand cheaper than diesels with nearly twice the miles !

Someone needs to convince the Government that it's in the interest of our health to reduce road tax on 2.0L and above and give incentives for LPG, even further reductions in tax.

Buses should be converted too!

galwaytt

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Someone needs to convince the Government that it's in the interest of our health to reduce road tax on 2.0L and above and give incentives for LPG, even further reductions in tax.

Do no such thing !!! Keep your beak shut ! If you tip off Govt to this all they'll do is hoik ON tax to make it match petrol pricing at the pumps. !

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

Do no such thing !!! Keep your beak shut ! If you tip off Govt to this all they'll do is hoik ON tax to make it match petrol pricing at the pumps. !

I doubt it as doing so would be pointless as thats what killed bio diesel and E85.

Nissan doctor

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt it as doing so would be pointless as thats what killed bio diesel and E85.

I don't, sure the government made the road tax very low on the lowest emissions cars, so everyone went and bought them(surely the point in a way) and then the government put the tax back up again.:rolleyes:

LPG would only remain cheap until lots of people started using it, then the government will want to make back the money it would be loosing on petrol/diesel so either the price of LPG would rise or road tax would go up further.

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I don't, sure the government made the road tax very low on the lowest emissions cars, so everyone went and bought them(surely the point in a way) and then the government put the tax back up again.:rolleyes:

LPG would only remain cheap until lots of people started using it, then the government will want to make back the money it would be loosing on petrol/diesel so either the price of LPG would rise or road tax would go up further.

Well no one can say either way the only difference is now they are taking more from us than ever with the Universal social charge and now the extra PRSI and soon the property tax and water charges, so it's not as necessary to take it from the motorist.

LPG is the cleanest fuel to drive on so it would be no harm if people changed. I bet when Euro 6 emissions come in, diesel might finally die. I hope so anyway.

+ the deal on Anglo promissory notes eases the burden somewhat, so there isn't as much pressure.

Do we want to discuss this here ?

galwaytt

Mad_Lad wrote: »

I doubt it as doing so would be pointless as thats what killed bio diesel and E85.

Irrelevant: they're only interested in parting you and your money....issues of fairness, greeness won't come into it.

But let's not derail this excellent ND thread

oldsmokey

Great thread, great pics...thanks

irishproduce

Fascinating thread!! Can I ask does anyone have some top tips for a first time diesel engine owner? Got a c3 picasso recently and first time owning a diesel.
Thanks!

irishproduce

irishproduce wrote: »

Fascinating thread!! Can I ask does anyone have some top tips for a first time diesel engine owner? Got a c3 picasso recently and first time owning a diesel.
Thanks!

If its got one of those particle filters then don't drive it all the time in town or city driving, if you do you'll need to give it a blast on the motorway every now and then.

What made you choose the diesel this time ? The cheaper tax ? They are not built for small mileage at all.

Nissan doctor

irishproduce wrote: »

Fascinating thread!! Can I ask does anyone have some top tips for a first time diesel engine owner? Got a c3 picasso recently and first time owning a diesel.
Thanks!

The main thing with modern diesels is how they are used, You need to read your manual for DPF regeneration. If you bought it for short trips(shops, schools runs etc) then you will end up with likely expensive issues down the line as your engine is not suitable for that use. If you take it for a good long motorway run every weekend then you may be ok.

Make sure to only fill it from branded stations and ideally not the same station every time to minimize the chance of running on washed/poor quality diesel.

Maintenance is every bit as important too, the correct specification of oil is vitally important so make sure you use recommended, competent garages for servicing and if you are using it for regular short trip then regular oil changes will be needed, much more regular then what the service book recommends(every 15k at least).

irishproduce

Thànks for the replies mad lad and nissan doctor. Appreciate your sharing of knowledge.
It is actually my wifes car. She had a 1.3 petrol before this and was spending about 200 to 250eur per month travelling to work.
Se has to travel 30km each way on a motorway straight into an industrial estate so we decided that diesel would be better on costs. We went for a car so big because we have a baby and please god we will be lucky enough to have another in the next year or so. Throw in the fact that she is French and we are going to drive to her home in France this year as our summer holidays then it seemed like a good idea.
It gets little to no use at weekends around town.

Nissan doctor, i checked the manual for dpf and found the particlate filter section. But it just says: It is imperative that the maintenance of the particulate emission filt is carried out by a citroen dealer" I guess that means I should only bring it to them ya?

When i posted my question last night, i went off around the net looking for tips too and found it mentioned on a site that diesel fule treatment should be put in with each fill up of diesel. Is that an American thing or should we do that here? If so, what is the type to get?

Thanks again!

RandomAccess

Nissan doctor wrote: »

...
As I mentioned though, small capacity turbocharged petrol engines will be the norm for the coming generation of cars(the likes of fords 1.0 eco boost and VAG's tsi are a couple that are here already) and this is where most of the research and future developments are centering around.

Hi Nissan Doctor,
On this subject, whats the reliability like on these small turbo engines?
I guess the VW 1.4T is the most common of these kind? But what others are out there and what have you found/heard.

What are the risk areas, for example I think a few years back that the VAG 1.8T engines were running into reliability issues because people were using the wrong oil and they were getting gummed up inside. Also the VAG 2.0T from the GTi was suffering from carbon build up which I believe was related to the engine being of the FSI type, not sure what the cause was in that case.

Fiat turbo petrols Are much more reliable than VAG.

Fiat make great engines, But they probably don't have a car big enough for you.

But I wouldn't get any VAG engine these days, the 1.4 turbos are not the most reliable and higher mileage diesels can be a lot of trouble.

Stick with Jap cars, Honda, Toyota.

Prius is one of the most reliable in the world. And it's pretty spacious. More so than a A4 and a lot more than a golf.

Again calculate out if going diesel is really worth your while even going to France, there are some bargains on 2.0 L petrols because everyone thinks they must base their new car decision on the lowest tax. You could be surprised how long it might take to make up the difference of purchase cost of the diesel.

If you prefer the drive of the diesel and you want it more because of how it drives that's an entirely different matter.

Nissan doctor

irishproduce wrote: »

Thànks for the replies mad lad and nissan doctor. Appreciate your sharing of knowledge.
It is actually my wifes car. She had a 1.3 petrol before this and was spending about 200 to 250eur per month travelling to work.
Se has to travel 30km each way on a motorway straight into an industrial estate so we decided that diesel would be better on costs. We went for a car so big because we have a baby and please god we will be lucky enough to have another in the next year or so. Throw in the fact that she is French and we are going to drive to her home in France this year as our summer holidays then it seemed like a good idea.
It gets little to no use at weekends around town.

Nissan doctor, i checked the manual for dpf and found the particlate filter section. But it just says: It is imperative that the maintenance of the particulate emission filt is carried out by a citroen dealer" I guess that means I should only bring it to them ya?

When i posted my question last night, i went off around the net looking for tips too and found it mentioned on a site that diesel fule treatment should be put in with each fill up of diesel. Is that an American thing or should we do that here? If so, what is the type to get?

Thanks again!

60km a day on the motorway is fine for a modern diesel as the DPF would operate properly and other possible area's of expense with modern diesels, like EGR valves and dual mass flywheels(DMF), will be under as little strain as possible too.
Correct maintenance and oil types would still be essential though as the likes of the turbo will be spinning constantly.

With regard to fuel additives, they shouldn't be needed in general if the car is used and maintained correctly however poor quality diesel being such a widespread problem in this country, it would be no harm keeping a bottle of Dipetane in the boot and add a bit in every couple of tanks even. This way, even if you did get a tank of poor diesel, its damaging effects would be minimized as much as possible.

RandomAccess wrote: »

Hi Nissan Doctor,
On this subject, whats the reliability like on these small turbo engines?
I guess the VW 1.4T is the most common of these kind? But what others are out there and what have you found/heard.

What are the risk areas, for example I think a few years back that the VAG 1.8T engines were running into reliability issues because people were using the wrong oil and they were getting gummed up inside. Also the VAG 2.0T from the GTi was suffering from carbon build up which I believe was related to the engine being of the FSI type, not sure what the cause was in that case.

The vast majority of engine issues are down to poor or incorrect maintenance. The problem in Ireland is two fold, 1; there is no regulation for garages/mechanics and therefor no requirement for the person servicing your modern FSI engine(for example) to have any more then his basic mechanic qualifications, which may be 10 or 20 years out of date and 2; most motorists don't care about maintenance so will just leave it in anywhere and once it gets 'serviced' every now an again, it'll be grand.

This may have worked on basic engines years ago but will never work with modern, high tech engines. As you say, specific oil types and specs are required for specific engines and manufacturer service scheduals and checks must be followed.

The wrong oil or the wrong service intervals will cause issues for any turbo charged engine as turbo's naturally add a lot of extra heat and stress to the lubrication system.
The FSI engines suffer issues caused by both incorrect oil specs and lack of knowledge by people servicing them....including VW garages.
One major cause of carbon build up on FSI and Direct injection engines is incorrectly fitted spark plugs. Because the fuel is injected so precisely into the combustion chambers of these engines, the spark plugs must be torqued to a specific figure so that the ground electrode(s) are positioned correctly within the fuel spray, if not then the combustion will not be optimum and this can lead to the excess build up.
They are also prone to the cam follower on the FSI pump wearing causing a reduction in fuel pressure and again, imperfect combustion.

These are tiny things which, over time, lead to bigger issues.

So in short...after my ramblings...I don't think that modern turbo charged engines are unreliable, but I do think that they will be perceived as being unreliable, as modern diesels are, because people will just treat them like any car/engine they've had before and have them serviced whenever they think of it by whoever is the cheapest.:rolleyes:

Well said Nissan doc, You sound like someone who has pride in your work and that's lacking in a lot of people be they mechanics or whatever these days.

A lot of people are just out to rip people off.

Are you working for yourself or do you work at a main Nissan dealer ?

Nissan doctor

Deleted User wrote: »

Well said Nissan doc, You sound like someone who has pride in your work and that's lacking in a lot of people be they mechanics or whatever these days.

A lot of people are just out to rip people off.

Are you working for yourself or do you work at a main Nissan dealer ?

Appreciate the comments. I work for an independent service chain.

TBH any mechanic who is not continuously updating his training and keeping up top date with the latest systems is going to be out of his depth in no time as technology is moving so fast.