Stove; Comments and Suggestions please

islanderre

Right Folks; I will be installing a stove in the following opening sometime this summer:


As may be seen, it is plumbed for heating the 300Litre hot water tank via the 1 inch pipe and also a ¾ inch feed to the Systemlink manifold. (Please ignore the orange thermostat; it’s not operational!!!)

The room in which the stove will sit is open plan with the kitchen. Total room area is approx.50M2

House has HRV installed so stove must have external air…….. I will get the 4’’ hole cored out.

House achieved an Air Tightness Test Result: 3m3/h/m2 prior to slabbing and is rated @BER: B1

So, the following is what I would like peoples opinion / comments on:

Install aClearview Vision 500 8kw / 10000BTU boiler stove (or equivalent) and allow it to primarily heat the room space and the domestic hot water…… any excess hot water be dumped (via pump) into the Systemlink manifold and let it be pumped from there into either the upstairs or downstairs zones

Install a Clearview Vision 500 8kw non boiler stove (or equivalent) and allow it provide room heat only. (Blank the pipes in the stove opening)

Chimney has standard chimney pots and is backfilled with virmiculite but I will install a 904 grade liner and also backfill the space between it and the chimney pots with the vermiculite.


Anyone who has pondered a decision like this I would appreciate your thoughts and any plumbers; it would be great to get your thoughts / ideas on the pros / cons of going with or without a boiler.

Thanks alot,
Islanderre

demanufactured

Looks like a sealed system????
That's a no go.

Dtp79

demanufactured wrote: »

Looks like a sealed system????
That's a no go.

What makes u think its sealed?

islanderre

Not a sealed system folks, Oil condensing boiler feeds the systemlink on the LHS, RHS is where the stove may feed it in the future. The three outlets from the systemlink go to upstairs, downstairs and 300L 3 coil domestic water tank.
Islanderre

TPM

That 1" pipes to the cylinder are a problem, they cant run horizontal.

islanderre

TPM, Thanks for the comment....... I beg to differ on the 1'' pipes....... I was assured by the plumber when he was finishing the 2nd fix that the key with the pipes to the hot water tank overhead is that their must at all times be a rise, which there is.
Regards,
Islanderre

TPM

islanderre wrote: »

TPM, Thanks for the comment....... I beg to differ on the 1'' pipes....... I was assured by the plumber when he was finishing the 2nd fix that the key with the pipes to the hot water tank overhead is that their must at all times be a rise, which there is.
Regards,
Islanderre

Yes your plumber is right the pipes must rise at all times and if they do there wont be a problem, just looked if like they didnt rise in the photo, but photos can be deceptive.

islanderre

Cheers for that TPM...... any thoughts on installing a 'DRY' in against 'WET' stove; One thing I like about the CLearview is that the boiler can be added at any stage so in my case as the pipes are already installed, I could at a later date add the boiler. Perhaps this may be the best option considering the house is normally only occupied in the evenings and weekends.
Thanks,
Islanderre

TPM

just a few comments
the simplest option would be to fit a non boiler stove and see how it works for you.

Is it worth the additional expense to buy and install the boiler for the use it is going to get and the heat gain.

a boiler stove will use considerably more fuel than a non boiler stove to provide the same heat to the room

islanderre

Cheers TPM,
Kind of coming to that conclusion now as well; for now run with a DRY stove and later fit the boiler if house becomes more occupied........... will decide fully by the summer as it will be June / July before its bought.
Thanks,
Islanderre

shane0007

Another question with the 1" pipework, how long is each pipe exactly, adding 300mm for each sweeping bend & adding 500mm for each 90 elbow? This measurement is from the stove connection the cylinder connection.

TPM

Ive seen a lot of people take out a small boiler stove they were able to keep a room hot with burning a few sticke or a shovel of coal, only to complain that the new bigger boiler stove was a waste of time because it "wouldnt heat anything" because they expected to still only burn the few sticks or shovel of coal.
A solid fuel boiler isnt as cheap away to heat a heating system as many people assume, your condensing boiler would be cheaper if you have to buy your solid fuel from a normal retailer. and there is no free heat, you need to burn more fuel to get more heat, be it into the room or the water.

IMO A non boiler stove will provide a better return for investment versus a boiler stove. Boiler stoves do have their places though before i get shot

islanderre

Shane0007,
Cannot tell you of hand the pipe length runs.......do you mean each 90 elbow equates to 500mm of straight pipe???????
TPM,
I will be buying all the fuel for the stove and as you mentioned I will leave the central heating & hot water heating of the house to the oil condensing boiler that's already installed.
Thanks again for the replies.
Islanderre

shane0007

TPM wrote: »

Ive seen a lot of people take out a small boiler stove they were able to keep a room hot with burning a few sticke or a shovel of coal, only to complain that the new bigger boiler stove was a waste of time because it "wouldnt heat anything" because they expected to still only burn the few sticks or shovel of coal.
A solid fuel boiler isnt as cheap away to heat a heating system as many people assume, your condensing boiler would be cheaper if you have to buy your solid fuel from a normal retailer. and there is no free heat, you need to burn more fuel to get more heat, be it into the room or the water.

IMO A non boiler stove will provide a better return for investment versus a boiler stove. Boiler stoves do have their places though before i get shot

Absolutely spot on & I totally agree.

shane0007

islanderre wrote: »

Shane0007,
Cannot tell you of hand the pipe length runs.......do you mean each 90 elbow equates to 500mm of straight pipe???????

That's exactly what I mean. 8m in total, including take offs, is your maximum allowable length to have a satisfactory gravity circuit.

islanderre

Cheers Shane....... reckon I'm right on the limit so as the 300 Litre hot water cylinder is overhead BUT 4.40 metres to right.
Everyday is a school day!!!!!!

From your comments to TPM's post, I take it your not too favorable to the idea of a stove with boiler???????????? From reading over the weekend, it seems a stove is most economical / efficient if its only providing room heat and not water....... makes sense too as it is not been constantly cooled so to speak by the water jacket.

Thanks again all

shane0007

islanderre wrote: »

From your comments to TPM's post, I take it your not too favorable to the idea of a stove with boiler???????????? From reading over the weekend, it seems a stove is most economical / efficient if its only providing room heat and not water....... makes sense too as it is not been constantly cooled so to speak by the water jacket.

Thanks again all

Absolutely but I would then go one further & pressurise your heating system. Much better overall system.

Dtp79

islanderre wrote: »

Cheers Shane....... reckon I'm right on the limit so as the 300 Litre hot water cylinder is overhead BUT 4.40 metres to right.
Everyday is a school day!!!!!!

From your comments to TPM's post, I take it your not too favorable to the idea of a stove with boiler???????????? From reading over the weekend, it seems a stove is most economical / efficient if its only providing room heat and not water....... makes sense too as it is not been constantly cooled so to speak by the water jacket.

Thanks again all

Why heat one room when you could heat most of the house with the same fuel

islanderre

Dtp79,
Reason for the stove is that it will be a focal point in the living / kitchen area but I do not want to spead half the evening getting up to it and feeding it with fuel....... Reason I initially plumbed for a boiler stove is that is was somewhat easy to do during the house build rather then doing a retro fit job.
Should the house end up occupied 24/7; then I will consider adding the boiler option.

Also, good money has been spent installing a condensing oil boiler and coupled with good insulation (BER: B1); I hope this will only have to heat the hot water and upstairs except in the depth of winter when it will do all areas.

Hope that make some sense!!!!!!!

Shane,
To pressurize my currently open system; is their much to it both in financial terms and work terms?????

Regards,

Islanderre

shane0007

islanderre wrote: »

Shane,
To pressurize my currently open system; is their much to it both in financial terms and work terms?????

No very easy & inexpensive.
Firstly
Leave all existing ov pipework in situ in case you ever do want to reinstate ov system.
Where osvp tees off the dhw cylinder coil to the attic, blank it with a AAV.
Replace the feed with mains water teed from from the mains that feeding the f & e tank or mains rising in the hot press, but use a filling loop.
Install a pressure gauge.
Calculate the volume of water in your system & install an install an expansion vessel sized as 11% of the total volume of the system.
If the cylinder is not the highest point of the system, then fit another AAV at the highest point also.

islanderre

Shaneo007,
Thanks for the info on converting to a pressurised system......... food for thought. Would I be right in thinking that making it pressurised would lead to a more efficient heating system?????

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Islanderre

shane0007

Without question it would. If you could see the amount of troublesome solid fuel combined systems I am called to, you would probably give me a Sainthood!

islanderre

Fair play shane..... if your down whest and fancy a convertion job from open to pressurised......... let me know!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shane0007

Might take you up on that but probably won't be until the Races & accommodation is by you! Not sure if much work would get done though.....

TPM

islanderre wrote: »

From your comments to TPM's post, I take it your not too favorable to the idea of a stove with boiler???????????? From reading over the weekend, it seems a stove is most economical / efficient if its only providing room heat and not water....... makes sense too as it is not been constantly cooled so to speak by the water jacket.

I dont have particular issue with boiler stoves, in fact I fitted one in my own house recently.
But

If you have to buy fuel at retail prices they are by no means a cheap way of heating a house.

The additional cost of buying and installing a boiler stove over a non boiler one is substantial.

IMO solid fuel stoves dont tend to work to their potential when they are incorporated into a system that was designed to be heated by oil or gas etc, as opposed to a system that was initially designed for solid fuel.

Solid fuel boilers can be dangerous if not installed correctly, this is a fact that that doesnt seem to be treated as importantly as it should be. And it is surprising how many people dont install solid fuel boilers correctly(or in fact that dont know how to)

Dtp79 wrote: »

Why heat one room when you could heat most of the house with the same fuel

You can heat some or even all of the house using a stove with a boiler that burns the same type of fuel as a non boiler stove just heating the room. But people seem to underestimate the additional amount of fuel that is required to provide the additional heat.

If you had a 5kw stove heating a sitting room nicely and then replaced it with a stove to provide an additional 10kw of heat to the heating system you now require 15kw of heat and so need to burn 3 times as much fuel.

islanderre

TPM,
Interesting post...... mind me asking what stove you installed..... I'm fairly set on the Clearview at this stage but open to other suggestions. I'm hoping if I spend a bit more on a higher end stove it will see me for 25 years plus and also keep its efficiently.
Regards,
Islanderre

TPM

I put in a 30kw carriaig more boru because I got a deal on it I couldnt pass up.

I dont think you can go too far wrong with the clearview and specially when you have the option to fit the boiler in the future and not have to replace the whole stove. you never know how things may change in the future.
I for example have underfloor heating and said i would never put in a backboiler or solid fuel stove but when I was building I ran pipes to the fireplace in the sittingroom and put in a double chimney leaving me with options. and just as well as things turned out.
And I agree with your thinking, spend a bit extra for quality, it will pay for itself many times over in the long run

islanderre

TPM,
Thanks for the reply......cant beat planning ahead and having options for future use.
Best of look with your stove and heating set up......sounds cosy!!!!!!
Regards,
Islanderre

TPM

islanderre wrote: »

TPM,
Thanks for the reply......cant beat planning ahead and having options for future use.
Best of look with your stove and heating set up......sounds cosy!!!!!!
Regards,
Islanderre

Your welcome.
You nevere manage to the planning for the future completely right but you got to try

Thanks, my heating system is a constant work in progress, it is a bit of an R&D project. the next addition is a 15kw pellet stove I think.

Keep us updated on your decisions and progress, its always nice to hear how things work out for people

islanderre

TPM,
Will update again probably June / July sometime when all going to plan the stove will be bought. Intention is to get the stone backing and hearth etc sorted in april / may and then the stove itself end June / early July.
House build started in 2008 and finally getting around to this part which I have been pinning for, for a long time!!!!!!
Fella in work has a pellet stove heating a 4 bed 1980's built average insulation house...... this winter he has so far burnt about 3 tonnes of pellets and is happy out (cost and comfort wise) in comparison to the old oil boiler he had.
Regards,
Islanderre

Chief Eng

Hello Islandere,
Just looking through your thread. I installed my Boiler Stove [Charnwood Cove 2b] about 10 months ago and it's worked out well.
I posted the report on what I learned here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056938899
Well aware it's horses for courses, hope it all works out well for you!

islanderre

Chief Eng,
Cheers for the link..... I'll read through probably tomorrow.
All goin well I'll update this thread later this month or mid July with an update on hopefully the finished article.

Regards,
Islanderre

islanderre

Well it was October when I eventually got to install the Stove. Its a Clearview and the following photos will do most of the talking.

First up was the coreing out for the external air:

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The installed the granite hearth. As may also be seen in this photo; the pipes for the boiler connection have also been cut back

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Finally settled on thin stone for the surround.

[IMG][/img]

islanderre

Stripped off as much as possible of the stove as it weighed allot and was difficult to manoeuvre.
Got is lifted in onto the hearth later that day

[IMG][/img]

Dropped down the flue from the top and back filled it with vermiculite topped with concrete and a chinese flue cap

[IMG][/img]

I also scraped off all the algae from the chimney and painted it!!!!!!

Stove finally fired up

[IMG][/img]


Happy out now and comfy too!!!!!

Thanks allot to all who replies to my initial post.

Islanderre