New regulations mean that landlords wont be able to rent sh1tholes to people

steddyeddy

It's about time landlords were completely regulated in this country. Look through the accom and property forum and you'll hear stories of people being rented places unfit to live. I hope these regulations change things. I would also be in favour of price regulation.

New landlord regulations will spell the end for grotty bedsits



SUBSTANDARD bedsits are being consigned to history.
Landlords are now obliged to provide each tenant with a separate bathroom, a four-ring cooker, access to laundry facilities and other basic facilities , or risk being fined up to €5,000.
New rental accommodation standards will be enforced by local authorities, which will have powers to ensure that landlords are providing damp-free homes to all tenants.
The provisions had applied to new tenancies in properties let for the first time since February 2009, but all tenancies will now be required to comply with the regulations. Accommodation that fails to meet the standards cannot be rented.
The Society of Chartered Surveyors (SCS) said it was important for landlords to ensure their accommodation was up to scratch.
"The new regulations effectively ban shared bathrooms and landlord-controlled heating systems in rented properties," SCS spokeswoman Siobhan O'Dwyer said.
"The penalties for non-compliance are a fine of €5,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or both. The fine for each day of a continuing offence is €400. Clearly, it is in landlords' interests to ensure their rental accommodation meets the new standards."
Housing charity Threshold said the new rules would improve standards and remove the most substandard accommodation in the country.
But upgrading buy-to-let properties is likely to put investors under additional financial pressure.
Almost 27,000 of those with a buy-to-let mortgage are in arrears on their payments, out of a total of 150,000 investor mortgages.
Another 22,500 buy-to-let mortgage holders have had to have the monthly repayments reduced, with the agreement of the bank. This means that almost a third of buy-to-let mortgage

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-landlord-regulations-will-spell-the-end-for-grotty-bedsits-3375207.html

yermandan

Any link bud?

steddyeddy

yermandan wrote: »

Any link bud?

Just included one in the edit man!

yermandan

Nice one!!

JohnMarston

Good news

ThreeLineWhip

Wrong forum.

steddyeddy

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Wrong forum.

It's an issue that affects everyone and I thought people would be interested in it.

steddyeddy

Considering Ireland's personal history with landlords we take a lot more sh1t off them than we should. Considering some of the inhumane LLs I have encountered I am delighted with this news.

Logical_Bear

but living in a ****ty bedsit was a right of passage for us all!

Swampy

Joe Duffy show had some bedsit landlords on a whil back taking about this. Most do not have the money to convert the property's and so the tenants will be let go. A lot of elderly people living happily in bedsits. Guy on radio had a 70 odd year old tenant who had lived there over 20 years. He'll never be able to afford a 1 bed apt.

steddyeddy

Swampy wrote: »

Joe Duffy show had some bedsit landlords on a whil back taking about this. Most do not have the money to convert the property's and so the tenants will be let go. A lot of elderly people living happily in bedsits. Guy on radio had a 70 odd year old tenant who had lived there over 20 years. He'll never be able to afford a 1 bed apt.

I have heard something similar in relation to commercial rents from landlords. It's amazing when landlords complain about regulation which forces them to improve conditions of houses they rent out by saying they're worried about the effect this will have on their tenants. I dont belive a word of it. A lot of landlords have made a killing in the celtic tiget and even now with an increase in people renting. Anyway that's why I said we need to bring in rent price regulations.

jethro081

i've been living in rented houses in various parts of ireland for years now, and whilst i do welcome regulation of property standards, the private bathroom rule seems excessive to me.

I have never once had an en suite bathroom in any of the houses i have rented, because i've never been in a position to pay a lot of rent. I'd just worry that a regulation like this will push up rental prices and take away low rent housing, which many people, including myself over the years, have relied on.

Maybe i'm being overly sceptical about this, but it is something that would worry me. I'm not saying hovels should be allowed, but a four ring cooker, and a private bathroom per tenant seems excessive.

Czarcasm

These new regulations look great on paper, but the unfortunate reality is that things will carry on as normal-

unregistered and unscrupulous landlords renting out sub standard accommodation to desperate tenants who have no idea of their rights, many who don't care about their rights as long as they have some semblance of a roof over their heads, ad nauseum.

On a property divided up into ten bedsits at €500 a month from each tenant will yield an income of €5000 a month tax free, so a €5000 fine isn't going to upset the bad apple cart a whole lot.

steddyeddy

Czarcasm wrote: »

These new regulations look great on paper, but the unfortunate reality is that things will carry on as normal-

unregistered and unscrupulous landlords renting out sub standard accommodation to desperate tenants who have no idea of their rights, many who don't care about their rights as long as they have some semblance of a roof over their heads, ad nauseum.

On a property divided up into ten bedsits at €500 a month from each tenant will yield an income of €5000 a month tax free, so a €5000 fine isn't going to upset the bad apple cart a whole lot.

Also the threat of imprionment.

Henlars67

jethro081 wrote: »

i've been living in rented houses in various parts of ireland for years now, and whilst i do welcome regulation of property standards, the private bathroom rule seems excessive to me.

I have never once had an en suite bathroom in any of the houses i have rented, because i've never been in a position to pay a lot of rent. I'd just worry that a regulation like this will push up rental prices and take away low rent housing, which many people, including myself over the years, have relied on.

Maybe i'm being overly sceptical about this, but it is something that would worry me. I'm not saying hovels should be allowed, but a four ring cooker, and a private bathroom per tenant seems excessive.

It doesn't apply to shared houses, You really should read things properly before posting.

Dyr

Jaysis, no wonder the gardee are up in arms over CPA II, the ould second income stream being knocked on the head now

bijapos

Czarcasm wrote: »

On a property divided up into ten bedsits at €500 a month from each tenant will yield an income of €5000 a month tax free, so a €5000 fine isn't going to upset the bad apple cart a whole lot.

Fine can be a lot more than €5000

The penalties for non-compliance are a fine of €5,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or both. The fine for each day of a continuing offence is €400.

I think that they also need to do something about the minimum size of these places, no point in putting all that stuff in if you literally can't swing a cat in the place.

For those who think it will drive the price of a place up that's rubbish.

Is this part of the regulations John Gormley introduced a few years back? I remember they were only introduced after a lot of opposition from a lot of politicians on all sides.

jethro081

Henlars67 wrote: »

It doesn't apply to shared houses, You really should read things properly before posting.

fair enough, no need to be snippy about it. bit of manners does no one any harm.

steddyeddy

jethro081 wrote: »

fair enough, no need to be snippy about it. bit of manners does no one any harm.

Meoooowww!

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

It doesn't apply to shared houses, You really should read things properly before posting.

If bedrooms are let individually, it does.

Henlars67

Milk & Honey wrote: »

If bedrooms are let individually, it does.

No, regardless of how they are let it is still a 'house share'

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

No, regardless of how they are let it is still a 'house share'

A bedroom is regarded a dwelling according to a recent decision from the PRTB. Every dwelling must have its own bathroom etc. If all of the tenants join on one lease then they do not need individual facilities.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80995461

boombang

There are two sides to this. A renter does not have to rent somewhere they don't like. That's their free choice. This regulation will remove poor quality housing from the market, but it will also remove cheap accommodation that up till now people were rationally choosing from their own free will. This restricts choice and I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Czarcasm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Also the threat of imprionment.

Honestly Eddie I'll believe it when I see it. I'd LIKE to see it, but there's always those that slip under the radar that only care about cash in hand and the property can go to hell.

Just one example of this was last year when I got a call from an elderly lady to come out and fix her laptop. I went out to where I thought she was, an old folks home. Turned out she was living in a bedsit across the road, and the only thing separating her bedsit from the one beside it I discovered was when I went looking for the bathroom and pulled back a wooden partition and met her "neighbour", in their bedsit!

The toilet as it turned out, was up a rickety woodworm infested stairs, the only thing holding up the walls was the scummy black dampness and the toilet bowl itself was covered in rust with no lid and no shower facilities in the "bathroom" either.

I felt embarrassed for the poor woman tbh, especially when I thought she could be living in the old folks home across the road instead of being practically isolated in this filth hole where she told me the local teenagers would gather in the shed outside drinking and causing mayhem till the early hours of the morning.

I asked her had she anyone that'd come visit her or try and find her somewhere else more suitable to her needs. "My daughter is in Australia" she told me, her only means of contact being the odd e-mail every so often.

It's not too often my customers would prick my conscience, but there not being much else I could do, I called out to her a week later with a webcam and set her up on skype and she was delighted to be able to video call her daughter.

I call out to her myself every so often now just to check up on her and have a chat and hopefully with the help of the CWO and my contacts in the housing authority this legislation will mean that this woman might be able to move into decent accommodation that might give her back her dignity.

Mr Benevolent

Other countries had this legislation 25 years ago. This is not a landmark, this is pathetic.

On the other hand, I live in a well furnished, damp free apartment with all the mods cons for a reasonable rent, mainly because I chose to. My landlord is great and is registered with the PTRB. Renters, finding a better fcuking landlord and you'll be fine.

Henlars67

Milk & Honey wrote: »

A bedroom is regarded a dwelling according to a recent decision from the PRTB. Every dwelling must have its own bathroom etc. If all of the tenants join on one lease then they do not need individual facilities.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80995461

Not getting into a ridiculous argument about it but I have looked into this and it is not necessary for a landlord to provide a separate bathroom for tenants in a house-share

Madam_X

That's what they said, but if bedrooms are being let as individual units then it is a requirement. In fairness, they backed themselves up somewhat.

boombang wrote: »

There are two sides to this. A renter does not have to rent somewhere they don't like. That's their free choice. This regulation will remove poor quality housing from the market, but it will also remove cheap accommodation that up till now people were rationally choosing from their own free will. This restricts choice and I'm not sure it's a good idea.

There's more to a sub-standard property than just not liking it. It's taking advantage of people with a limited rental income. In those cases, basic and clean is sufficient, but dirty and in poor repair, is not. Saying a person doesn't have to live there almost excuses people letting out complete holes. They shouldn't be doing it, end of.
Making it the tenant's responsibility is ridiculous.

Cool_CM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's about time landlords were completely regulated in this country. Look through the accom and property forum and you'll hear stories of people being rented places unfit to live. I hope these regulations change things. I would also be in favour of price regulation.




http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-landlord-regulations-will-spell-the-end-for-grotty-bedsits-3375207.html

Wasn't this supposed to happen ages ago but landlords just started describing them as "studio appartments" instead?

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

Not getting into a ridiculous argument about it but I have looked into this and it is not necessary for a landlord to provide a separate bathroom for tenants in a house-share

There is a difference between all tenants on a house share being on the same lease as a group in which case there is only one dwelling and only one set of facilities has to be provided.
If bedrooms are let individually, then there is a dwelling per bedroom. The regulations apply to each dwelling.

"(ii) “house” includes any building or part of a building used or suitable for use as a dwelling and any outoffice, yard, garden or other land appurtenant thereto or usually enjoyed therewith,"

Each bedroom is treated as a "house" for the purpose of the regulations.

Czarcasm

Cool_CM wrote: »

Wasn't this supposed to happen ages ago but landlords just started describing them as "studio appartments" instead?

It was legislation brought in three years ago that applied to new rentals only, but now it's being applied across the board. You'd be surprised how many people renting accommodation are unaware of their rights and responsibilities as tenants, let alone those that are even aware of the existence of the PRTB!

There are a few genuinely clueless landlords too (mostly new money "property investors", ordinary people that bought second and third properties in the boom years and are now trying to claw their investment back), but for the most part, sub standard accommodation is usually traced back to unscrupulous landlords that have been letting for years, raking in cash, and avoiding refurbishing the property when it went into a state of disrepair.

Henlars67

Milk & Honey wrote: »

There is a difference between all tenants on a house share being on the same lease as a group in which case there is only one dwelling and only one set of facilities has to be provided.
If bedrooms are let individually, then there is a dwelling per bedroom. The regulations apply to each dwelling.

"(ii) “house” includes any building or part of a building used or suitable for use as a dwelling and any outoffice, yard, garden or other land appurtenant thereto or usually enjoyed therewith,"

Each bedroom is treated as a "house" for the purpose of the regulations.

no point arguing with you, but you are wrong

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

no point arguing with you, but you are wrong

You have produced no evidence whatsoever for your assertion. Have you any links to back up what you are saying?

Henlars67

Milk & Honey wrote: »

You have produced no evidence whatsoever for your assertion. Have you any links to back up what you are saying?

You are the one who said that landlords need to provide a separate bathroom and 4 hob cooker for every tenant in a shared house.

The burden of proof is on you.

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

You are the one who said that landlords need to provide a separate bathroom and 4 hob cooker for every tenant in a shared house.

The burden of proof is on you.

I have referred to the regulations and PRTB decisions which show that each house must have its own bathroom and kitchen facilities.
What have you referred to?

Henlars67

Milk & Honey wrote: »

I have referred to the regulations and PRTB decisions which show that each house must have its own bathroom and kitchen facilities.
What have you referred to?

each house, not each room, anyway I've had enough of this.

do you really think that each bedroom in a 4 be semi that's leased out has to be an ensuite with a 4 hob cooker?

You're away with the fairies

southsiderosie

I feel like this is over-reaching a bit. I've rented studios in the US and Spain and a bedsit in Ireland, and they usually only had a 2-burner stove (and no over) because they take up less space. And TBH, I would rather have my own living space with a hall bathroom than a houseshare where all of the common areas are shared space.

The bigger issue here is that many of these places aren't well-maintained, but as long as they are clean and the landlord is responsible (or the government responds quickly to complaints), then I don't see anything wrong with the hall bathroom bedsit set-up: it makes living by yourself in a major city somewhat affordable, and they are pretty much the only option for people who want a short-term (i.e. less than six months) lease.

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

each house, not each room, anyway I've had enough of this.

do you really think that each bedroom in a 4 be semi that's leased out has to be an ensuite with a 4 hob cooker?

You're away with the fairies

If the whole house is leased no. If rooms are let individually, yes. Go and show me how I am wrong.

A house can mean a part of a house according to the definition in the regulations. Maybe you haven't read them?

Guy:Incognito

steddyeddy wrote: »

Look through the accom and property forum and you'll hear stories of people being rented places unfit to live.

You mean people are conciously deciding to rent places that are unfit to live in.

Bipolar Joe

This conversation is stupid.

Henlars67

What you have linked to deals with an entirely separate situation and you have interpreted wrongly.

Madam_X

southsiderosie wrote: »

The bigger issue here is that many of these places aren't well-maintained

But that's what the issue being discussed here is. I'm sure most would agree a small cooker or a room without an en-suite in a house-share aren't of much concern in comparison to a dirty, dusty, damp dwelling in disrepair (that's a lot of Ds! :pac:)

Czarcasm

Madam_X wrote: »

But that's what the issue being discussed here is. I'm sure most would agree a small cooker or a room without an en-suite in a house-share aren't of much concern in comparison to a dirty, dusty, damp dwelling in disrepair (that's a lot of Ds! :pac:)

Must... resist! *schoolboy sniggers*, brain you're back in the room :pac:

Milk & Honey

Henlars67 wrote: »

What you have linked to deals with an entirely separate situation and you have interpreted wrongly.

No, I haven't. The question is what is a dwelling.

Capt'n Midnight

steddyeddy wrote: »

Also the threat of imprionment.

Jebus :eek:

Infection with mad cow disease, that's both cruel and unusual.

steddyeddy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Jebus :eek:

Infection with mad cow disease, that's both cruel and unusual.

Trust the mod of the biology forum to pick up on a prion misspelling :P!

starlit

Its high time, have seen a few rubbish bedsits in my time.

Its amazing really if you find a decent place for decent rent.

Kichote

So it will be impossible to rent out a place that doesnt have a 4 ring cooker? What BS is this? Some people wouldnt have use for a 1 ring cooker

Kichote

Czarcasm wrote: »

It was legislation brought in three years ago that applied to new rentals only, but now it's being applied across the board. You'd be surprised how many people renting accommodation are unaware of their rights and responsibilities as tenants, let alone those that are even aware of the existence of the PRTB!

There are a few genuinely clueless landlords too (mostly new money "property investors", ordinary people that bought second and third properties in the boom years and are now trying to claw their investment back), but for the most part, sub standard accommodation is usually traced back to unscrupulous landlords that have been letting for years, raking in cash, and avoiding refurbishing the property when it went into a state of disrepair.

I am unaware of the existance of the PRTB and dont want to know either. Govt can feck off with their regulations if i want to live in a kip and pay kip money for it thats my choice

Czarcasm

Kichote wrote: »

I am unaware of the existance of the PRTB and dont want to know either. Govt can feck off with their regulations if i want to live in a kip and pay kip money for it thats my choice

There's always one.

goat2

jethro081 wrote: »

i've been living in rented houses in various parts of ireland for years now, and whilst i do welcome regulation of property standards, the private bathroom rule seems excessive to me.

I have never once had an en suite bathroom in any of the houses i have rented, because i've never been in a position to pay a lot of rent. I'd just worry that a regulation like this will push up rental prices and take away low rent housing, which many people, including myself over the years, have relied on.

Maybe i'm being overly sceptical about this, but it is something that would worry me. I'm not saying hovels should be allowed, but a four ring cooker, and a private bathroom per tenant seems excessive.

well said,
if people have to put in extra bathrooms, then the tenant pays the extra for that,
and anyway where there are two or three tenants, what is wrong with one bathroom,
in my own home i have one bathroom between five to six of us, and we have no issues,
so why should i rent out a house to some two people with two bathrooms while i have one between the whole family,
there was six of us until a yr ago, and anyway if you had two showers or baths going at the same time the tank would run out of water,
demand would overtake supply, in the heating or running of two baths or showers at the same time,
does not make sense to me.
all houses should have good cooking facilities, washing facilities, easy to heat and damp free,
I would say there are houses that are not properly insulated or heated out there,
and it is up to tenants to make sure they find the right place that is up to standared.
but if people are thinking that everyone tho stay in a house should have a seperate bathroom, it is the tenants who will be paying for that privilage,
i know places where bin services were provided, and in the last two yrs this service is no longer paid for by the landlord, so the tenant is picking up the bill,
you cannot blame landlords if they raise the rent, if they have to put in an extra bathroom, while all the while the one bathroom did the job,
it is hard enough on tenants, why make it harder,

and lastly,

people will rent out sh1t holes if tenants are willing to live in them,
instead the prospective tenants should say it as it is and tell them the truth that their rental is not fit to live in.
i have gone out helping one of my brood find a place to rent up country, and we did come across a place i did think was all wrong, and i said it as it was,
the landlord did not like it, but if people dont rent them from people, those that own the property will fix it up properly so as to get a customer for the place,

Cookie_Monster

Landlords are now obliged to provide each tenant with a separate bathroom, a four-ring cooker, access to laundry facilities and other basic facilities , or risk being fined up to €5,000.

That list is a bit ridiculous, 3 bed apartment could have 6 people living in it, do you now need 6 bathrooms?
Why are laundry facilities and "other" basic facilities (includes a fridge at least, not sure what else) needed? what if you are renting unfurnished, why would you need another washing machine and fridge and what not.

Too far IMO.