organised religion, will it ever go away?

shane9689

ive noticed an increase in atheist views in ireland, although the internet may just be amping up previous views from people,
but will organised religion disappear as we advance as a civilization or is it stuck here inevitably

Sarky

As long as humans have an imagination to create fictional realities, no. Its power will wane, and if the circumstances are right (hopefully never, but there's no accounting for future stupidity) it'll become popular or even powerful again, but I doubt we'll ever be free of it.

riffmongous

In my opinion, not so long as there are still people in parts of the world living tough lives, I dont think atheism has a lot to offer you when live is short and hard compared to the 'comforts' of religion, so as long as people are needing some sort of assistance that they cant get physically there will be religions and people to organise them.

Dades

I read mostly Sci-fi, and particularly the old school stuff. They've been envisaging a world without religion for decades, and many of the *masters* of the genre anticipated humanity would have moved on by this stage.

From the POV of an atheist given to think about such matters, is seems inevitable that religion will just fade away as society progresses. But the reality it humanity is still completely f*cked, and outside of Northern Europe (and some curious exceptions) most people still grasp the idea that something is watching them through the clouds.

Humanity doesn't seem like getting it's sh*t together anytime soon, and with climate change or some Malthusian catastrophe there's always going to be a market for those who need something to believe in beyond the scorched earth outside the window.

Irish_wolf

Dades wrote: »

From the POV of an atheist given to think about such matters, is seems inevitable that religion will just fade away as society progresses. But the reality it humanity is still completely f*cked, and outside of Northern Europe (and some curious exceptions) most people still grasp the idea that something is watching them through the clouds.

Which is why I think takes a logical and educated mind to stop following organised religion. Because a caveman who hears a noise and assumes it's a predator or something supernatural other than an act of nature is probably going to live longer than one who doesnt.

So it seems to me to be a natural instinct to attribute unexplained things to personifications or agents as some people call it, and thus until our brains change or we are educated otherwise, we will attribute the unexplained to gods and other such things.

This is of course merely my opinion there's lots of other factors involved I just think it's a possible explanation of why a religion would come about. So yes I presume that if we could educate everyone we could cast off our old superstitions, but odds are that wont happen anytime soon.

pwurple

Irish_wolf wrote: »

Which is why I think takes a logical and educated mind to stop following organised religion. Because a caveman who hears a noise and assumes it's a predator or something supernatural other than an act of nature is probably going to live longer than one who doesnt.

So it seems to me to be a natural instinct to attribute unexplained things to personifications or agents as some people call it, and thus until our brains change or we are educated otherwise, we will attribute the unexplained to gods and other such things.

This is of course merely my opinion there's lots of other factors involved I just think it's a possible explanation of why a religion would come about. So yes I presume that if we could educate everyone we could cast off our old superstitions, but odds are that wont happen anytime soon.

That actually sounds so like my late uncle, who was heading off as a priest to the missions in africa. If only he could educate those tribes less advanced than us, about the one true god they could cast off their old superstitions.

Why are people so concerned with everyone believing the same thing they do. A true athiest/agnostic wouldn't give a toss.

lynchieboy

Why do atheists feel the need to be organised?

krudler

pwurple wrote: »

That actually sounds so like my late uncle, who was heading off as a priest to the missions in africa. If only he could educate those tribes less advanced than us, about the one true god they could cast off their old superstitions.

Why are people so concerned with everyone believing the same thing they do. A true athiest/agnostic wouldn't give a toss.

Isn't that just replacing one superstition with another?

krudler

lynchieboy wrote: »

Why do atheists feel the need to be organised?

Those delicious babies won't catch themselves.

Dades

lynchieboy wrote: »

Why do atheists feel the need to be organised?

Well, if I want to fit in a 3k run, a trip to the park with the kids, bathtime, and my brother's birthday party later - I bloody well need to be organised.

Not sure why you care though?

pauldla

lynchieboy wrote: »

Why do atheists feel the need to be organised?

I am not at all organised.

I hate it when people make presume things about me just because I don't believe in Batman. I mean, God. I don't believe in God.

Batman, if you're out there, I didn't mean it!

FouxDaFaFa

I don't think it will ever "go away", there are parts of the world yet to embrace it and go through the cycle we are going through now of saturation to less and less power.

The future will probably look a bit like Sweden, where something like 85% of the country is atheist and those who practice religion are the exception rather than the inverse that we have now.

Sarky

I am about as organised as... uh... something that isn't very organised. Um, at all.

Kidchameleon

Even modern belief systems like atheism have organizations. Its just human nature to group together based on mutual understanding. So no, organized religion will probably never go away IMHO.

lynchieboy

What is the purpose of the organisations like atheists Ireland? why feel the need to sit around with people and discuss what you dont believe in? seems one step away from sitting around with people discussing what you do believe in?:rolleyes:

Banbh

I'm in Atheist Ireland to campaign for my human rights - schools that don't try to indoctrinate my kids, a Constitution that doesn't favour one cult, courts, parliament and Presidency that aren't subject to the views of an association that excludes me.
I've never been to a meeting to discuss my non-religious views, apart from my local on a Friday night with my friends.

shane9689

exactly what banbh said. the purpose of them is to try remove the influence of organized religions more than anything else, because a true atheist/agnostic would understand the dangers of religion and thus organizing against is important, better than being silent on the issue and having your rights influenced by the churches

Dades

lynchieboy wrote: »

What is the purpose of the organisations like atheists Ireland? why feel the need to sit around with people and discuss what you dont believe in? seems one step away from sitting around with people discussing what you do believe in?:rolleyes:

lynchieboy, feel free to read any the threads dealing with this age-old question referenced in this post:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82549895&postcount=7

No more discussion on this thread is needed. Back on topic, folks.

shane9689

wait, mod, are you closing this thread or do you mean to refer people back to my original question for discussion?

Da Shins Kelly

Don't see it happening any time soon myself. People have been worshiping something forever, be it the Christian God, Roman gods, Greek gods, way to even the sun. People seem to crave divine supervision. Maybe it's to do with feelings of comfort.

Dylan Moran actually has an amusing take on the need to believe in things and it's relationship with people not wanting to grow up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkya1W6J8eY

shane9689

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Don't see it happening any time soon myself. People have been worshiping something forever, be it the Christian God, Roman gods, Greek gods, way to even the sun. People seem to crave divine supervision. Maybe it's to do with feelings of comfort.

Dylan Moran actually has an amusing take on the need to believe in things and it's relationship with people not wanting to grow up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkya1W6J8eY

never really heard his standup only his tv...my god his stand up is top notch

Nolars

Some good videos based on religion in the UK. Just shows as the elder die off and take there beliefs with them the new generation of youngsters have more information available than they did. Organised religion will never die off completely but the threads are going in a good direction. 15% to 25% of non religious in the UK in 10 years probably more worth taking note.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRQhPbfqhgA and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXdZJoXuxC8

shane9689

i think the freedom of information will play a big part in the shift aswell. with the internet theres less censorship (for now). and aslong as it stays that way people will question things.

also its about where the power is. the Church used to have power because it kept unstable european countries in order and thus it gained money and value and value =followers, but now that we have order through the E.U etc... (despite your opinions on what the E.U actually does) we no longer need the church thus it holds less value. less values = less money so people go to other sectors instead like politics and business and corrupt those instead :P

in theory, i believe people dont blindly follow organised religion. i think they do so when its needed. when structure is lost, its required in order for people to feel secure (as in secure among a community with wealth). When thats not needed, they stop following it (like a on a subconscious or communal level it seems) ... i dunno just an idea.

Geomy

In my minuscule opinion there's no such thing as organized religion,how can something with so many rules and corruption be organized...

Religion divides humanity as there's far too many of them,Atheism or Open Minded non denominational spirituality brings people together.

Dades

shane9689 wrote: »

wait, mod, are you closing this thread or do you mean to refer people back to my original question for discussion?

The latter, obviously. If it was closed you wouldn't be able to post in it.

Bannasidhe

lynchieboy wrote: »

Why do atheists feel the need to be organised?

Organised? :eek:

I'm happy if I am organised enough to hide a matching pair of socks from the jack russells who rule my house!

Cork boy 55

The unknown future rolls toward us,
the rational awakening of the population has only just started where it leads is a matter of futurology and could turn in multiple directions depending on the undermined variables of technological change and environmental degradation and demographic collapse. The whole thing goes, The future's not set, There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.

The Mad Hatter

Omit needless words.

robindch

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Omit needless words.

Item 14 to the cognoscenti.

Delirium

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The unknown future rolls toward us,
the rational awakening of the population has only just started where it leads is a matter of futurology and could turn in multiple directions depending on the undermined variables of technological change and environmental degradation and demographic collapse. The whole thing goes, The future's not set, There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.

You're just slowly working up to the revelation that there is no spoon, aren't you? :P

Nodin

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The unknown future rolls toward us,
the rational awakening of the population has only just started where it leads is a matter of futurology and could turn in multiple directions depending on the undermined variables of technological change and environmental degradation and demographic collapse. The whole thing goes, The future's not set, There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.

Theres going to be a new Terminator movie?

Rob Humanoid

It will always be around in some form or other unfortunately...Although, it has lost a lot of it potency over the last 20yrs here in Ireland.

lets hope the momentum keep on rolling...

pauldla

Rob Humanoid wrote: »

It will always be around in some form or other unfortunately...Although, it has lost a lot of it potency over the last 20yrs here in Ireland.

lets hope the momentum keep on rolling...

Are we talking about the Terminator franchise, or religion?

In the beginning, it was awesome, especially the 'I'll be back' bit, but yeah, over time the story required greater and greater suspension of disbelief, until it just wasn't worth the effort. And the violence and the bloodshed! Gruesome in places.

The Terminator movies, on the other hand...

Rob Humanoid

Ha ha... Yes, religion.

Terminators would do far less damage tho'!