Test driving an un-insured car

naughtysmurf

Moving on from another thread,

How do you allow a car to be test driven that the owner has no current insurance for?, the insurance was not renewed last December (2012)

The car is parked in owners drive, not driven since insurance expired,

bbam

This could be a problem.
Most insurances which allow driving of other cars have a stipulation that the car has an insurance policy in place.

Also Appart from it being a problem if you let someone out uninsured they are not covered but you can be fined for allowing the car to be driven uninsured.

Lots of people just chance it, but you could be unlucky. Personally I wouldn't allow it out on a test drive unless I was sure it was covered.

MugMugs

Check your policy OP. Not every insurer insists that the vehicle be insured in order to be used under the third party extension. It was a moot point and taken out by most in the past few years.

visual

My policy will cover me driving anyone car as long as I'm not the owner.

Although I've got fully comprehensive on my car driving someone else's it's only 3rd party cover on borrowed car.

However if I bought the car then technical I wouldn't be insured unless I Inform insurance company.

But more to the point I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it legally or not.

fasttalkerchat

What I do is call my insurance company and give the registration number and switch my insurance to that car, after the test drive if I decide not to buy I change it to the next car I try.

Technically you should own the car but it doesn't have to be officially in your name since the form would be in the post anyway. You have something like 14 days to notify them that you sold the car (or didn't buy in this case).
Just check that your insurer doesn't charge per change (mine doesn't)

corktina

bbam wrote: »

This could be a problem.
Most insurances which allow driving of other cars have a stipulation that the car has an insurance policy in place.

.

this is completley wrong. in fact most policies that allow you to drive other cars DO NOT have this stipulation, it's a fallacy that arises as some policies state that if a policy IS in place on the car, then it takes precedence is the case of a claim.

bladespin

corktina wrote: »

this is completley wrong.

Not completely, every motor policy I've held (both bike and car) have stipulated that I could drive other vehicles as long as they were insured, policies with Quinn, Allianz, Adelaide, Carole Nash, Norwich Union etc.

bmwguy

I think any car you drive needs to be insured, the reason being this: whats to stop me buying and insuring a small car, say a micra, then also registering a large car, say Bmw 5 series, to a family member or friend, but not insure it as its expensive, but using the 5 series as my daily car under driving other cars stipulation on the micra? If I have accident I can claim I just borrowed it for the day and make a claim on Micra insurance.

langdang

bmwguy wrote: »

I think any car you drive needs to be insured, the reason being this: whats to stop me buying and insuring a small car, say a micra, then also registering a large car, say Bmw 5 series, to a family member or friend, but not insure it as its expensive, but using the 5 series as my daily car under driving other cars stipulation on the micra? If I have accident I can claim I just borrowed it for the day and make a claim on Micra insurance.

I think thats effectively fraud. I think a lot of these ingenious loopholes are effectively fraud, or at the very least nondisclosure/misrepresenting relevant fact. Which is a weaselly way of describing what amounts to fraud I suppose.

seamus

Most policies will cover you for driving another vehicle with no insurance on it provided that it doesn't belong to you. Don't confuse it with open drive, that's a different thing altogether.

However you must remain in the car at all times. If you leave the car parked in public then it will have no insurance, which is an offence.

langdang

seamus wrote: »

Most policies will cover you for driving another vehicle with no insurance on it provided that it doesn't belong to you. Don't confuse it with open drive, that's a different thing altogether.

However you must remain in the car at all times. If you leave the car parked in public then it will have no insurance, which is an offence.

I think you are also "not displaying a valid disc" or whatever, but that is a completely separate matter to driving uninsured (which is just plain scummy). I think people in general fail to grasp the difference between the two.

MugMugs

langdang wrote: »

I think you are also "not displaying a valid disc" or whatever, but that is a completely separate matter to driving uninsured (which is just plain scummy). I think people in general fail to grasp the difference between the two.

You're obliged to display a valid Insurance disc though?

bbam

corktina wrote: »

this is completley wrong. in fact most policies that allow you to drive other cars DO NOT have this stipulation, it's a fallacy that arises as some policies state that if a policy IS in place on the car, then it takes precedence is the case of a claim.

Well I insure through a broker so have been with a number of insurance companies. I'd guess 50% had that stipulation. Maybe it wasn't quite half but definitely near.

Currently I have fully comp on any other car I drive up to a value of €50k, I've never seen this before and it only cost me €30 extra.

The truth is most people scan through their policy and rarely read the detail. Definitely some insurers will only cover you to drive another car IF it has an active policy.

langdang

MugMugs wrote: »

You're obliged to display a valid Insurance disc though?

Are you just restating that not displaying one is an offence? Or are you claiming it is the same offence as driving uninsured?

Nondisplay of valid disc is more of a technicality IMO-- it is a real offence but technically everybody driving on a third party extension is doing this, unless they use a disc with their insurance policy number.

bladespin

langdang wrote: »

I think you are also "not displaying a valid disc" or whatever, but that is a completely separate matter to driving uninsured (which is just plain scummy). I think people in general fail to grasp the difference between the two.

MugMugs wrote: »

You're obliged to display a valid Insurance disc though?

Our broker advised taking the insurance disk from your own vehicle and displaying it in the other (temporary transfer of insurance) pretty sure that would work here too.

oldyouth

bladespin wrote: »

Our broker advised taking the insurance disk from your own vehicle and displaying it in the other (temporary transfer of insurance) pretty sure that would work here too.

I'm pretty sure that is an offence in itself

JerCotter7

oldyouth wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that is an offence in itself

What would the offence be? It is a valid insurance disk. Friend of mine was told the same thing by a garda.

Then again they all interpret things differently.

AltAccount

oldyouth wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that is an offence in itself

Really? I'd have thought that, if you're testdriving another vehicle under your insurance (3rd party extension, whatever), that you should display the details under which you're insured - i.e. your own policy number, insurance company & expiry date - even if the registration on the disk doesn't match that of the car.

That'd be my common sense expectation, very interested as to what the legal position is.

MugMugs

langdang wrote: »

Are you just restating that not displaying one is an offence? Or are you claiming it is the same offence as driving uninsured?

Unsure how you drew that claim from my statement.

langdang wrote: »

Nondisplay of valid disc is more of a technicality IMO-- it is a real offence but technically everybody driving on a third party extension is doing this, unless they use a disc with their insurance policy number.

Nope, it's an offence and you're open to prosecution.

CoDy1

Your Certificate states the extension to drive other vehicles so have that with you not the Disc.

bladespin

oldyouth wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that is an offence in itself

It's definately not an offence.

quietsailor

bbam wrote: »

Currently I have fully comp on any other car I drive up to a value of €50k, I've never seen this before and it only cost me €30 extra.

What company are you insured under? I'd be interested in getting this on my own policy

coylemj

quietsailor wrote: »

What company are you insured under? I'd be interested in getting this on my own policy

I'm not the person you quoted but I have it as standard from Axa, I have an NCB that's as old as the Ark. They use it as leverage when I'm trying to knock down the renewal by quoting quotes I've had from their competitors, it's a tactic to hang on to reliable customers with a good record.

It used to be restricted to cars that did not exceed two litres but that's gone now and as per the poster you quoted, its now just limited to a claim of 50K.

shooter88

JerCotter7 wrote: »

What would the offence be? It is a valid insurance disk. Friend of mine was told the same thing by a garda.

Then again they all interpret things differently.

It is a offense to display a insurance disk from another vehicle regardless of who owns the car or what policy you have .if you intend driving another vehicle you should carry your policy..
It is a criminal offence to display a different disk as is using a tax disk from another car

oldyouth

JerCotter7 wrote: »

What would the offence be? It is a valid insurance disk. .

A valid insurance disc is only evidence that the vehicle STATED ON THE DISC is insured. It does not confirm that any driver is covered under the policy, even the policyholder. There are legitimate 'insured excluded' policies out there BTW

corktina

shooter88 wrote: »

It is a offense to display a insurance disk from another vehicle regardless of who owns the car or what policy you have .if you intend driving another vehicle you should carry your policy..
It is a criminal offence to display a different disk as is using a tax disk from another car

if it isn't fraud and the disc is for a valid policy that covers the drivng of the vehicle it's on, how can it be an offence? I carry the Insurance Cert as well, which shows I AM covered.

You are just guessing about it being a criminal offence aren't you?

shooter88

corktina wrote: »

if it isn't fraud and the disc is for a valid policy that covers the drivng of the vehicle it's on, how can it be an offence? I carry the Insurance Cert as well, which shows I AM covered.

You are just guessing about it being a criminal offence aren't you?

Ring your local station.unless its a motor trade policy it is a criminal offense to display a incorrect insurance or tax disk..you don't take tge tax disk from one to another do you?carrying your policy is all that's required to drive another vehicle

Theanswers

shooter88 wrote: »

Ring your local station.unless its a motor trade policy it is a criminal offense to display a incorrect insurance or tax disk..you don't take tge tax disk from one to another do you?carrying your policy is all that's required to drive another vehicle

Fleet insurance one can take the disk as it has no reg just a policy number

bladespin

bladespin wrote: »

Not completely, every motor policy I've held (both bike and car) have stipulated that I could drive other vehicles as long as they were insured, policies with Quinn, Allianz, Adelaide, Carole Nash, Norwich Union etc.

Quinn do not require the other car to be insured. I needed to drive an uninsured car a few years ago and Quinn confirmed on the phone that once the car is not owned by me I'm covered 3rd party if its insured or not.

shooter88

Aden Powerful Technology wrote: »

Quinn do not require the other car to be insured. I needed to drive an uninsured car a few years ago and Quinn confirmed on the phone that once the car is not owned by me I'm covered 3rd party if its insured or not.

I'm with Quinn/liberty I'm insured to drive any car I don't own 3rd party as long as car is tax and tested,it does not need to be insured by owner as my policy covers it,this excludes vans/jeeps/people carriers

djimi

If it is an offense to drive without a valid disc on display, and you cannot take the disc from your own car when driving a car on your third party extension, then surely that means there is no legal way to actually drive a car on third party extension?

JerCotter7

oldyouth wrote: »

A valid insurance disc is only evidence that the vehicle STATED ON THE DISC is insured. It does not confirm that any driver is covered under the policy, even the policyholder. There are legitimate 'insured excluded' policies out there BTW

I never said not to take the policy. I said to display your own insurance disk on the windscreen. I always carry my policy with my licence.

shooter88 wrote: »

It is a offense to display a insurance disk from another vehicle regardless of who owns the car or what policy you have .if you intend driving another vehicle you should carry your policy..
It is a criminal offence to display a different disk as is using a tax disk from another car

So where does it say it's an offence to display a disk from another car? The law states to show a valid insurance disk. The one from your own car is valid. It's not a disk that you printed off at home and hope for the best with. I also don't see a point in comparing it to tax. The two are completely different things. You compared it as well in the next post. Guess if my insurance runs out I have 2 months til they can take the car from me.


There is also the fact that for 10 days after first getting insurance you don't have to display the disk by law. Although that only counts if you own the vehicle according to my interpretation.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/si/0227.html It's down at the end.

Still looking for the part about non-display to see how it is phrased.

shooter88

JerCotter7 wrote: »

I never said not to take the policy. I said to display your own insurance disk on the windscreen. I always carry my policy with my licence.



So where does it say it's an offence to display a disk from another car? The law states to show a valid insurance disk. The one from your own car is valid. It's not a disk that you printed off at home and hope for the best with. I also don't see a point in comparing it to tax. The two are completely different things. You compared it as well in the next post. Guess if my insurance runs out I have 2 months til they can take the car from me.


There is also the fact that for 10 days after first getting insurance you don't have to display the disk by law. Although that only counts if you own the vehicle according to my interpretation.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/si/0227.html It's down at the end.

Still looking for the part about non-display to see how it is phrased.

I already said ring your local station to confirm or just go ahead and put the disk in the window if you don't want to listen.it is a offence for non display of disk but as long as you are insured and have cert to prove it(which you have 10days to produce).
I used a tax disk simply for comparison as neither can be used on another vehicle.
If your going to ask a question and then argue with the answer why ask especially after been told to ring local station to confirm

JerCotter7

shooter88 wrote: »

I already said ring your local station to confirm or just go ahead and put the disk in the window if you don't want to listen.it is a offence for non display of disk but as long as you are insured and have cert to prove it(which you have 10days to produce).
I used a tax disk simply for comparison as neither can be used on another vehicle.
If your going to ask a question and then argue with the answer why ask especially after been told to ring local station to confirm

I'd rather get it in writing. So I don't plan to ring the local station. Getting verbal confirmation won't be much good if I am stopped and it turns out I am in the wrong.
So it is an offence but sure it will be grand, is what you are saying?
Your comparison is not valid as they are two completely different things.
Of course I will argue with the answer if there is nothing to back it up. I have already addressed your point about ringing the local station. And I was there with a friend when he was told by a garda before that he should display the disk from his own car if the car he was driving didn't have one. So once again ringing the local station will not help.

5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/si/0355.html

That is all I have found so far about it. What I take from that is once my own insurance is covering me to drive another vehicle I must take my insurance disk as that is the one for the vehicle when I am driving it. Unless the car has it's own disk.

oldyouth

JerCotter7 wrote: »

I never said not to take the policy.

I never said you did

JerCotter7

oldyouth wrote: »

I never said you did

Not all to sure what you meant by the post so.

djimi

djimi wrote: »

If it is an offense to drive without a valid disc on display, and you cannot take the disc from your own car when driving a car on your third party extension, then surely that means there is no legal way to actually drive a car on third party extension?

A very minor detail which no guard is going to bother persuing once you can prove on the spot or within 10 days that you are insured.

How may people actually wait until they get the disc before driving a car they have bought etc? None I would say.

bladespin

djimi wrote: »

If it is an offense to drive without a valid disc on display, and you cannot take the disc from your own car when driving a car on your third party extension, then surely that means there is no legal way to actually drive a car on third party extension?

Open policy

shooter88

JerCotter7 wrote: »

I'd rather get it in writing. So I don't plan to ring the local station. Getting verbal confirmation won't be much good if I am stopped and it turns out I am in the wrong.
So it is an offence but sure it will be grand, is what you are saying?
Your comparison is not valid as they are two completely different things.
Of course I will argue with the answer if there is nothing to back it up. I have already addressed your point about ringing the local station. And I was there with a friend when he was told by a garda before that he should display the disk from his own car if the car he was driving didn't have one. So once again ringing the local station will not help.

5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/si/0355.html

That is all I have found so far about it. What I take from that is once my own insurance is covering me to drive another vehicle I must take my insurance disk as that is the one for the vehicle when I am driving it. Unless the car has it's own disk.

so really what you posted and what you are looking for are not the same.your thread should be "information on display of insurance disk"
and in the thread explain you want someone else to get you a link.btw mines a pint when you get told what i have already said

JerCotter7

shooter88 wrote: »

so really what you posted and what you are looking for are not the same.your thread should be "information on display of insurance disk"
and in the thread explain you want someone else to get you a link.btw mines a pint when you get told what i have already said

Not my thread. I was just responding to what someone posted. And I got a link to it in the end.

Also isn't that what forums are for? Discussion, with facts to back it up if need be? I would expect someone to post a link after making a point, not just tell me to ring the local station. Especially when discussing anything to do with the law.

No idea what you meant in your last sentence.

shooter88

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Not my thread. I was just responding to what someone posted. And I got a link to it in the end.

Also isn't that what forums are for? Discussion, with facts to back it up if need be? I would expect someone to post a link after making a point, not just tell me to ring the local station. Especially when discussing anything to do with the law.

No idea what you meant in your last sentence.

That's good you found the link,what did it say?

Zubeneschamali

JerCotter7 wrote: »

(1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

So, sticking up a disc which is for a different vehicle is in breach of this section of the law, and whether that disc is yours, valid in the other car etc. is irrelevant.

JerCotter7

shooter88 wrote: »

That's good you found the link,what did it say?

Check back to the second post where I posted a link. Can be interpreted either way.

Zubeneschamali

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Can be interpreted either way.

The right way and the wrong way.

shooter88

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Check back to the second post where I posted a link. Can be interpreted either way.

When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle.
Which means the disk relevant to the vehicle

Zubeneschamali

shooter88 wrote: »

When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle.
Which means the disk relevant to the vehicle

Which is the disc with the car's registration number printed on it, and definitely not a disc with a different car's registration number printed on it.

As noted upthread, some discs do not have a number printed on them.

After a quick google, here it is in bold print:

6. No person shall, either by writing, drawing or in any other matter alter, deface, mutilate or add anything to any insurance disc for any vehicle, nor shall any person exhibit upon any vehicle any insurance disc which has been altered, defaced, mutilated or added to as aforesaid, or upon which the figures or particulars have become illegible or the colour has become altered by fading or otherwise, not shall any person exhibit any colourable imitation of any insurance disc or any insurance disc which has been issued in respect of another vehicle or any insurance disc which has become void nor shall any figures or letters, design or ornamentation be placed near to an insurance disc in such a manner as to render it more difficult to read nor shall anything be exhibited at or near the insurance disc, in such a manner as to render it more difficult to observe an insurance disc on a vehicle when in motion.

langdang

Nice to see this one thrashed out, has been the source of many arguments!

JerCotter7

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Which is the disc with the car's registration number printed on it, and definitely not a disc with a different car's registration number printed on it.

As noted upthread, some discs do not have a number printed on them.

After a quick google, here it is in bold print:

6. No person shall, either by writing, drawing or in any other matter alter, deface, mutilate or add anything to any insurance disc for any vehicle, nor shall any person exhibit upon any vehicle any insurance disc which has been altered, defaced, mutilated or added to as aforesaid, or upon which the figures or particulars have become illegible or the colour has become altered by fading or otherwise, not shall any person exhibit any colourable imitation of any insurance disc or any insurance disc which has been issued in respect of another vehicle or any insurance disc which has become void nor shall any figures or letters, design or ornamentation be placed near to an insurance disc in such a manner as to render it more difficult to read nor shall anything be exhibited at or near the insurance disc, in such a manner as to render it more difficult to observe an insurance disc on a vehicle when in motion.

Well I guess that settles that then.

No need to be so snarky in the other response though. You know when anything leaves a little leeway as to how it can be interpreted people will use it.

Zubeneschamali

JerCotter7 wrote: »

No need to be so snarky in the other response though. You know when anything leaves a little leeway as to how it can be interpreted people will use it.

Sorry about the snarky tone. It gets on my wick when people not only advise others to do illegal things, but then argue about the clear meaning of English sentences when pulled up.

And the courts are not big on leeway to interpret the law the way you want.

shooter88

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Sorry about the snarky tone. It gets on my wick when people not only advise others to do illegal things, but then argue about the clear meaning of English sentences when pulled up.

And the courts are not big on leeway to interpret the law the way you want.

I don't think anyone told you to do something illegal,you were told it is a offence to display a disk from another vehicle

Zubeneschamali

shooter, you said it was an offence, and I agree. Elsewhere in the thread, others said use a disc from another car, a garda told them to, a broker told them to etc.