new dog owner - some questions

El Kabong!

Hi,

We (2adults 2 kids) are getting our first dog tomorrow. My wife grew up with dogs, I didn't.

We are taking a 6/7 week old puppy from a family who had an unexpected litter. I know I will need to bring it to a vet and start from scratch there, except perhaps the worming has already started.

Most of questions are to do with training. I have been reading a lot here but I'm not sure about things.

1) The puppy would have been living in a boiler house/shed with it's mother/father/siblings and will be coming to our house.

My intention is to have it live, initially, in our conservatory (away from our cats, which are outside cats). The puppy would also be allowed in the kitchen/living area where we are most of the time.

I have been reading about crate training. Is this an appropriate method of training if I am to eventually try to move the dog outdoors? I'm not sure I will, I might have it always allowed in the conservatory but let's assume not.


2) If I do get a crate can you recommend which size I should get? The dog is a JR Westie cross.


3) Treats. I read on dogstardaily that you should stuff treats inside chewable toys. I just went over to a pet superstore (first time) and I can't tell the difference between chewable food and chewable toys, or what it the real intention. Can somebody point me to some links, for example on zooplus.ie of what toys are meant? I couldn't really see any toys I could stuff treats into....

4) I have a carry crate. My intention is it put this carry crate inside the 'training' crate. Do I put a small pillow/blanket inside the carry crate, or do I ALSO put a small dog bed inside the training crate?


5) I also plan to put a pen around the training crate to give them more room in the conservatory, but to protect some furniture. So I will have a pen, with a training crate, and a carry crate (and toilet area and food bowl). I wondering if I should put the toilet area inside the pen, or inside the training crate?


I will have a million more questions but I appreciate any help I can get.

So far I have bought a stainless bowl, some squeeky toys, a pulling toy and some treats, and some tennis balls. I am also getting the same food as what it was raised on but will be switching gradually.

ABajaninCork

That's a good start!

I would also buy a basket with a suitable cushion inside. I find plastic's best as it's far easier to clean. Get some blankets to go inside as well. You can pick up some cheapies in Primark.

Crate training is a good idea. Depends on what you want the crate training for. I trained my dog to sleep in his crate, but others use it for toilet training. Either way, be prepared to get up a couple of times in the night to take the puppy out.

If it's a JRT X, dog's likely to be short-haired and will shed - a lot! Get a Furminator, and a terrier brush. Helps with the loose hair.

Take the puppy to the vet for a check-up ASAP. Vet will want to start the vaccination process, and worm the dog.

Look into puppy classes. I think they're great for socialising the dog, and you can never start the training too early.

Finally - we need to see the little guy! Throw some pix up when you get a chance!!

Good luck!

Berns

Aint done any the crate trainin ourselves so dunno it.
However the toys. The kong ones think they the ones u can stuff the treats in. Prob grand for smaller dogs but our lab cross keeps chewin em to pieces

Seen mention of food bowl, but none of water bowl?? Need both We recently got some doggie mats to stick under em, dunno why cuz water still all around the floor -.-

Sure others more knowledgeable will reply later but every lil

RubyGirl

Don't take the pup until it's a least 8 weeks, 6 is far to early.

hfallada

Arent you supposed to take a puppy when its 8 weeks old?

We crate trained our dog as its a small/medium dog which cant go outdoors. We were unsure of weather to bother doing it but she chewed everything with a cable so we did it for her safety. But also its trained her to only go to the toilet outside as the dog wont do its business in the crate or even in the kitchen.

I followed the info on this site http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/cratetraining.htm
Remember never put the puppy in the crate as punishment or when your angry with her as she simply wont use it. Our goes into it herself at night and love it. And if you go a pet store get the size that matches your dog eg if you dog is medium sized as an ADULT get adult as if you buy it too small he/she will grow out of it and if its too big she/he will do their business in it.

Try with the crate training and dont give up. Its fair better than your dogs running and sh1tting all over the place like some houses i have been in

andreac

Please do not take this pup until its at least 8 weeks or more. 6 weeks is far too young to be taken.

fatmammycat

Personally I would take ANY pup before 10 weeks, 12 if I could get away with it. The longer they are with their mother and siblings the better. I find an older pup more confident, easier to train, easier to house train and just easier all round.

El Kabong!

ABajaninCork wrote: »

That's a good start!

I would also buy a basket with a suitable cushion inside. I find plastic's best as it's far easier to clean. Get some blankets to go inside as well. You can pick up some cheapies in Primark.

If you had a pen, training crate, and carry crate (with blankets inside), then where would you put this basket?

I do plan to have a basket/bed in the kitchen for then the dog is in there.

El Kabong!

Berns wrote: »

Seen mention of food bowl, but none of water bowl?? Need both

I actually got the bowl for water. I was under the impression that all the food should be given in the treats etc, which I don't understand.

I will get 2nd bowl for food just in case... thanks.

El Kabong!

I am not 100% sure of the age of the pup, at this stage she is probably closer to 10 than 6 but I will keep it in mind if I find out she is too young. Thanks.

maggiepip

El Kabong! wrote: »

I actually got the bowl for water. I was under the impression that all the food should be given in the treats etc, which I don't understand.

I will get 2nd bowl for food just in case... thanks.

That just means basically dont overdo the treats - or give some of his meal food as treats so dog doesnt get overweight. He needs a bowl for his meals which he will need to be fed 4-6 times a day at that age.

How do you mean he might stay in the conservatory full time or be moved outside eventually?

El Kabong!

maggiepip wrote: »

That just means basically dont overdo the treats - or give some of his meal food as treats so dog doesnt get overweight. He needs a bowl for his meals which he will need to be fed 4-6 times a day at that age.

How do you mean he might stay in the conservatory full time or be moved outside eventually?

When he is older I am not yet sure if I will have her sleeping/living in the conservatory with access to a large garden, or if I will let her sleep in the boiler house.

I am wondering if crate training her while young, in the conservatory and house, will cause a problem down the line if I decide to move her to a more outside style of living.

maggiepip

Dogs need to be loved, included, socialised and treated as part of the family on an ongoing permanent basis - no dog should be "living" in a conservatory/garden or a garden/boilerhouse.

Anyway I sense this thread will make me mad so I wont post anything else:mad:

El Kabong!

Please don't judge people over a few short internet postings. Life is too short to cause yourself stress.
You have no idea of what lifestyle arrangements we have.

I have already stated the dog will be in our kitchen/living area. That is where we are when we are at home.
I also have a big garden and the dog will be free to go there if it wishes.

I just haven't decided where the bedding will be. The dog might choose it's own area. I don't even have the dog yet so let's not jump to conclusions.

Also, the conservatory is the room beside the living area. I am only thinking of making it the dogs 'home'/sleeping area so it can be used to being put out there if we have people over who don't want to be around a dog, or toddlers etc.

nemo32

Congrats on the upcoming new member to the family, as everyone else has said try not to take the pup until he is at least 8 weeks and closer to 10.

Here are some examples of toys that you puppy can receive treats/meals from, they will make him tired and keep him entertained for hours.. this is exactly what you want when you have an excitable new pup

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/kongs/puppy_kong/139232

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/kongs/kong/139212

I can't see the crate training being a big probem if you want to move him outside eventually. You will just need to ease him into it like you will with the crate.
best of luck, can't wait to see some pics

fangee

maggiepip wrote: »

Dogs need to be loved, included, socialised and treated as part of the family on an ongoing permanent basis - no dog should be "living" in a conservatory/garden or a garden/boilerhouse.

Anyway I sense this thread will make me mad so I wont post anything else:mad:

Yeah. Let in into your house and let it sh*t and p*ss everywhere. Let it eat the furniture.

Let it stink up your house and be prepared to eat your food with free hair in it provided by the dog.

Don't train it. Don't teach it it's place within the family structure. Allow it to think it's human and act accordingly.

Be a slave to it.

Or alternatively seek out some professional advice and enjoy your dog for years to come.

maggiepip

El Kabong! wrote: »

Please don't judge people over a few short internet postings. Life is too short to cause yourself stress.
You have no idea of what lifestyle arrangements we have.

I have already stated the dog will be in our kitchen/living area. That is where we are when we are at home.
I also have a big garden and the dog will be free to go there if it wishes.

I just haven't decided where the bedding will be. The dog might choose it's own area. I don't even have the dog yet so let's not jump to conclusions.

Also, the conservatory is the room beside the living area. I am only thinking of making it the dogs 'home'/sleeping area so it can be used to being put out there if we have people over who don't want to be around a dog, or toddlers etc.

Well that reads way differently to the way I picked it up OP so I do apologise - genuinely. It came across to me to be honest that the little dog would be moved outside as soon as it started to grow up.

Whispered

fangee wrote: »

Yeah. Let in into your house and let it sh*t and p*ss everywhere. Let it eat the furniture.

Let it stink up your house and be prepared to eat your food with free hair in it provided by the dog.

Don't train it. Don't teach it it's place within the family structure. Allow it to think it's human and act accordingly.

Be a slave to it.

Or alternatively seek out some professional advice and enjoy your dog for years to come.

I can't make sense of this post at all Are you advocating having a well trained dog indoors? Or advocating not having a dog indoors at all. What has a professional got to do with where you keep your dog? Maybe I'm reading it all wrong.

El Kabong!

fangee wrote: »

Yeah. Let in into your house and let it sh*t and p*ss everywhere. Let it eat the furniture.

err, I want this thread to last a while so please go away

maggiepip wrote: »

Well that reads way differently to the way I picked it up OP so I do apologise - genuinely. It came across to me to be honest that the little dog would be moved outside as soon as it started to grow up.

No problem, thanks. I understand what you were saying though.

fangee

Whispered wrote: »

I can't make sense of this post at all Are you advocating having a well trained dog indoors? Or advocating not having a dog indoors at all. What has a professional got to do with where you keep your dog? Maybe I'm reading it all wrong.

It was in response to the posting I included by maggie.

I was suggesting a balanced approach to how you treat your dog and not to allow it into your bed.

hide2013

you are in for some surprises. the dog will sleep in your bed as soon as it is big enough to climb onto it. no point fighting that.
be sure of age. 6 weeks is much too young to seperate from mother.
early innoculation is important. dont walk in public until innoculated.

Whispered

OP I have to be honest. It doesn't seem like this pup is getting the best of starts. An accidental litter is somewhat understandable (I do hope you're not paying for the pup BTW) but you're unsure of the age, it should be at least 8 weeks, preferably 12. You already acknowledged that though, so just wanted to mention it again. You mention the owner has the father too?

Being kept in a boiler house/shed is a terrible idea for a puppy, it doesn't allow for correct socialisation and you're likely to bring home a pup who is afraid of normal household noises. Things we would not even notice like the washing machine, clanging of pots and pans etc. Also if its sleeping area has not been kept clean you could have house training problems. Nothing major, it just might take a bit longer.

When you get the puppy home, try to limit its access to one, quiet room in the house until it settles. It will be harder for it to settle considering where it's coming from, so be patient

Whispered

fangee wrote: »

It was in response to the posting I included by maggie.

I was suggesting a balanced approach to how you treat your dog and not to allow it into your bed.

Still makes no sense, Maggiepip didn't mention anything about a bed and you went on a rant about dogs "p*ssing" etc in the house. I'm struggling to see what point you were trying so eloquently to make.

El Kabong!

Whispered wrote: »

OP I have to be honest. It doesn't seem like this pup is getting the best of starts. An accidental litter is somewhat understandable (I do hope you're not paying for the pup BTW) but you're unsure of the age, it should be at least 8 weeks, preferably 12. You already acknowledged that though, so just wanted to mention it again. You mention the owner has the father too?

Being kept in a boiler house/shed is a terrible idea for a puppy, it doesn't allow for correct socialisation and you're likely to bring home a pup who is afraid of normal household noises. Things we would not even notice like the washing machine, clanging of pots and pans etc. Also if its sleeping area has not been kept clean you could have house training problems. Nothing major, it just might take a bit longer.

When you get the puppy home, try to limit its access to one, quiet room in the house until it settles. It will be harder for it to settle considering where it's coming from, so be patient

The owner has the mother and father. They had a litter about a year ago, and the father was booked in for the 'job' about a week too late....

I found out about the pups from the owner of a pup from the first litter, who is a friend of the family. It was this person who told me that the pups were 6 or 7 weeks old, and that was a week ago.

I had a good chat with the owner of the pups and feel confident that they are genuine people. There is no charge.


To make it clear, I have NO INTENTION whatsoever of keeping the dog in the boiler house as a puppy. It is for when they are older.
That is why I am asking questions about carry crates, crates etc for in the house, as I have not heard of them before.

borderlinemeath

8 weeks is the earliest a pup should be taken from it's mother. Any younger it will miss out on vital life skills that it gleans from it's mother and siblings. Double check the age and please don't take the puppy if it's too young.

Crate training is brilliant for housebreaking/toilet training. Pup will have learned from it's mother not to soil his bed area so using the crate as his bed will help him associate toileting outside.

Not all the pups food should be given through stuffable toys/kongs. As a pup they will need 3/4 small meals a day rather than one big one. Get some of the food that the owners were feeding it but you might find a better food could suit better. A good quality puppy food rather than a standard dog food as the nutritional balance of a puppy food is geared towards their needs. If giving food through a kong then make sure not to overfeed.

Check and see what worming and vaccination treatments the pup has been given and you will need to continue on with these or start a course if they haven't. Pups need worming every month up to 6 months of age and then every 3 months after that. If they have had one vaccination they will be due another around 12 weeks old and then annual boosters after that but it's important to check and see what the pup already has gotten. Check as well to see if the pup has a microchip, if not, you should get one in the vets and make sure it's registered on a website such as fido.ie - invaluable in case the dog ever gets lost or gets out.

As the pup has been reared outside it may not be well socialised to everyday life. You'll need to make sure it gets to meet all walks of life, men, women, children, other dogs, cats. Your vet will tell you to not let your dog socialise before it's got it's vaccinations but if you have a friends or family members dogs that you are sure is vaccinated it is worth the minute risk of infection to let them socialise as it may prevent further behavioural problems down the line. Make sure to get the puppy used to 'house' sounds, such as tv, washing machine, dishwasher etc. Again, they may not have heard any of these sounds and could well be very scared of them.

Whispered

El Kabong! wrote: »

I had a good chat with the owner of the pups and feel confident that they are genuine people. There is no charge.

Oh god a litter last year too? That's awful. The poor bitch. I'm glad this puppy you're taking seems to be getting a great home, at least he or she won't end up in a pound, having litters themselves or worse. Hopefully the others will be as lucky (the the puppies from their last accidental litter too).

Honestly I think once you settle the pup into your house you won't feel the need to move it outside when its older. They become such a part of your life and routine. You'd feel like you're missing a limb

fangee

Whispered wrote: »

Still makes no sense, Maggiepip didn't mention anything about a bed and you went on a rant about dogs "p*ssing" etc in the house. I'm struggling to see what point you were trying so eloquently to make.

I just thought she was a tad OTT.

I was merely pointing out that it's a dog and not to treat it like a human.

I'll not post again as unfair to OP.

Their concern is enough for me to be confident they'll be good owners.

Just enjoy it and don't be nervous. Your it's master/leader so teach it it's place, be confident and enjoy.

El Kabong!

Thanks.

If I put a crate/pen in the conservatory which has a carry crate in it with some nice fleece blankets...

and then I put a basket with a nice fleece blanket in it, in the kitchen...

will I be confusing it and messing up the training in any way?

nemo32

I don't think so, but if you want him to sleep in one particular place at night make sure this is clear from day one and don't give him access to both at night time.
My guy has 2 beds, one in the sitting room and his crate in the kitchen. He sleeps in his crate everynight and has done since we got him and never on the bed in the sitting room.
If the sitting room door is open he will always chose to lie in his crate in there rather than on his sittingroom bed.. in saying that when we say bedtime he jumps up and decides it's not his bedtime even though he's already been lazing in there for 3 hours straight... lol. Some nights it takes some treats to get him into the crate but once it's closed and lights are off he is happy as larry!

DBB

Hi OP,
Just to reiterate, make sure the pup is no less than 8 weeks old, and don't take it until it is.
This pup has been reared in a boiler house. I'll be perfectly blunt with you OP, this does not bode well. Pups reared out in a shed environment are far, far more likely to have behavioural problems later in life around strangers, and any "types" of humans which it has not had regular contact with in those first 8 weeks. Such pups are much more likely to have anxiety-related problems too. It all boils down to the fact that it is very difficult to raise a well-rounded pup in a shed out the back. You've been reading Dog Star Daily... but perhaps you've missed the bits you really need to be reading: http://www.dogstardaily.com/taxonomy/term/45

So, if this pup has only ever met a couple of men, or a child or two, there's a MUCH stronger chance that you'll run into the pup having problems with these people when it's adult. Believe me, this is not a problem that's easy, or pleasant to deal with.

When people come on here looking for advice on where to get a pup, one of the highest things on the list of priorities is to make sure the pup has spent significant amounts of time in the breeder's home environment. I just can't tell you how important this is. Ignore it at your peril.

Another thing that worries me: what age are your kids? If under 10ish, are you absolutely certain a Westie x JRT is a sensible choice? I have a huge amount of terrier experience OP, especially Westies. I would not rehome a Westie with small kids, they are just too quick tempered. They're ALWAYS fine as pups, by the time there's a problem the pup has grown into a dog, so don't let the cute puppy behaviour fool you into thinking the pup will like kids when it's older.

So, in short, you're getting a pup from a far from ideal set-up, a set up which is well proven to lead to problems in the future, and you're getting a mix of breeds which is not known for being wonderful with children, and you've got children, who have never owned a dog before and are presumably not dog savvy as a result.

I'm posting this here because I don't want you to think that you weren't adequately warned, and it's not yet too late to have second thoughts about what you're actually taking on here. I'm not for a minute saying don't get a dog, I'm just questioning the wisdom of getting this dog.

DBB

fangee wrote: »

Or alternatively seek out some professional advice and enjoy your dog for years to come.

In fairness now fangee, the advice that Maggiepip gave came pretty close to what a properly qualified professional would tell the OP to do. It's just this simple: dogs have a biological need to be with their humans, and to deprive them of this social contact by leaving them outdoors for hours on end is as cruel to the dog as not feeding it is.
Your talk of making sure the pup "knows its place" is somewhat outdated, indeed often harmful. Have a look at www.dogwelfarecampaign.org.uk so you can see why teaching a pup it's place is long-since abandoned as an approach to training.

ABajaninCork

El Kabong! wrote: »

If you had a pen, training crate, and carry crate (with blankets inside), then where would you put this basket?

I do plan to have a basket/bed in the kitchen for then the dog is in there.

Don't know about you, but the crate's in the kitchen and the dog's basket in the living room...

fangee

DBB wrote: »

In fairness now fangee, the advice that Maggiepip gave came pretty close to what a properly qualified professional would tell the OP to do. It's just this simple: dogs have a biological need to be with their humans, and to deprive them of this social contact by leaving them outdoors for hours on end is as cruel to the dog as not feeding it is.
Your talk of making sure the pup "knows its place" is somewhat outdated, indeed often harmful. Have a look at www.dogwelfarecampaign.org.uk so you can see why teaching a pup it's place is long-since abandoned as an approach to training.

You're assuming I'm advocating some sort of punishment when I say "know it's place". I'm not.

It's a fairly natural process. We've been buddies for a few thousand years now.

I don't think it complicated.

fatmammycat

It's complicated enough, Fangee, that millions of people get it wrong and can't keep their dogs any longer. Best to start off on the right foot and keep it there, no?

DBB

You'll excuse my assumption, it's just that when people use the language of "teaching pup it's place", and acting as "master/leader" are usually of the Cesar Milan school of dog bothering. Apologies if I have jumped to the wrong conclusions as a result of the language you used.
So, if you're not posting from the CM school of dog bothering, what do you advise when you say to put a puppy in it's place?

shamrock55

Sorry for jumping in here op but im just looking for a bit of advice we have a dog about 6 mths old we have her about 3mths she is a beagle woulld i be able to crate train her at this age as she is not house trained at all she spends most of the time in the yard and sleeps in the shed we would like to be able to have her indoors without desroying the place also she is red mad totally wild when she does come in and just goes nuts around the place up on couches etc and she never stops play biting ever how do we go about calming her down?? So thats 2 thing house training and calming down we really want her to be part of the family as the kids are mad about her any advice please

fatmammycat

shamrock55 wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in here op but im just looking for a bit of advice we have a dog about 6 mths old we have her about 3mths she is a beagle woulld i be able to crate train her at this age as she is not house trained at all she spends most of the time in the yard and sleeps in the shed we would like to be able to have her indoors without desroying the place also she is red mad totally wild when she does come in and just goes nuts around the place up on couches etc and she never stops play biting ever how do we go about calming her down?? So thats 2 thing house training and calming down we really want her to be part of the family as the kids are mad about her any advice please

Most young dog are mad as hatters inside if they're not normally allowed in, the excitement drives them bonkers. It's a chicken and egg situation, she needs to be in to be calm, but you'd like her to be calm to be in.
In your case, I'd try do this in stages. I'd take her for her morning walk, burn off some of that energy and when she's calmed down some, head back to the hosue, maybe feed her inside, perhaps in the kitchen, let her mooch around and settle as much as possible in that room, before allowing her access to entire house. Repeat and repeat until being inside is not such a 'big deal'. I'd do all this before I even through about the crate. She's needs to be used to being in the house first before the crate in the house, so to speak.
The play biting is all part and parcel of sheer excitment. And honestly, the best thing you can do is NOT play with a dog play biting. Ignore or the moment she bites, resume play when she's calmer. And everyone in the house should follow this, not just you and your partner.
It's just patience and routine that calms any dog, consistent patterns. You'll have a nicer dog at the end of it that the whole family can enjoy.
Best of luck.

fangee

DBB wrote: »

You'll excuse my assumption, it's just that when people use the language of "teaching pup it's place", and acting as "master/leader" are usually of the Cesar Milan school of dog bothering. Apologies if I have jumped to the wrong conclusions as a result of the language you used.
So, if you're not posting from the CM school of dog bothering, what do you advise when you say to put a puppy in it's place?

DBB. I promised the OP earlier that I wouldn't post again as I didn't want to ruin the thread but I need to answer your question (sorry op).

I've had dogs as pets since I was a kid. I would always advise to not have just one dog as two or more means they socialise better and more importantly they have a friend that is with them ALL the time.

I have seen some crazy things over the years that I believe led to behavioural problems and it does come from a lack of discipline in many cases.

I've been in houses where dogs sleep in beds, eat from cereal bowls on a coffee table and these dogs had some shocking behaviour. I believe it is a territorial thing. These dogs had called the shots from day one and would growl at you if you were eating. Would snap at you if you refused access to certain parts of the house and so on.

This kind of behaviour is not fair on the dog. It doesn't know any better. It's doing what it's been taught/allowed to do.

I've never had those problems. You can correct a dog without hitting it. Dogs WANT to please you. A different tone will let a puppy know what is acceptable to you and what is not. It will then "learn it's place" in the pecking order.

That pecking order is that you are responsible for the dogs actions and you feed and take care of it. As such you ARE the boss.

Sorry again OP. My initial (my first post on this thread was a response) attempt at humour didn't come across well.

I hope you get all the info you need but I'd recommend you don't over think it and trust your instincts.

DBB

shamrock55 wrote: »

Sorry for jumping in here op but im just looking for a bit of advice we have a dog about 6 mths old we have her about 3mths she is a beagle woulld i be able to crate train her at this age as she is not house trained at all she spends most of the time in the yard and sleeps in the shed we would like to be able to have her indoors without desroying the place also she is red mad totally wild when she does come in and just goes nuts around the place up on couches etc and she never stops play biting ever how do we go about calming her down?? So thats 2 thing house training and calming down we really want her to be part of the family as the kids are mad about her any advice please

Great to hear Shamrock!
It tends to be an issue for many owners that they'd love to have their dog inside, but the dog acts like a loon when she is let in, so she's put back out again!
Having the dog with you as much as you can is so important for her wellbeing: that's not to say that you have to be interacting all the time.. just being together is fine for the dog.
But you've got to have some control when you do let her in. So, here's what I'd suggest.
First of all, the crate is a great training tool from the point of view of housetraining (and no, you dog is not too old, the crate can be used to housetrain a dog of any age), but also as a place she goes to chill out whilst she's inside... say, when you want to eat dinner, or a have a few minutes to yourself, or when she's walked, fed and it's time to settle down and watch TV, the crate is just brilliant for this sort of thing. If she'#s to be in there for longer than a few minutes, set her up with a nice stuffed Kong Toy, so that she's not sitting there wondering what to do (for some Kong recipes, try www.kongcompany.com), also other chews like stag bars (antlers), and dried animal parts (liver, tripe, ears etc) are great distraction chews.
However, what when she's not in the crate? Using a houseline is a great management tool: by a houseline, I mean a light lead attached to her collar. Never leave this on her when she's unsupervised, for safety's sake.
When she comes in, ask her to sit, and do not pet her until she has sat. Same goes for the rest of the family. Persist with this rule: no attention until she's calm.
This next bit will be easiest at first if it's just you in the house, no kids or others to wind her up. When she gets the idea, you can start to practise when the kids are home, using the lead to control her around them (rather than having to make flying leaps to grab her collar!)
To calm her, when she comes in, get yourself a chair, lead her over beside you, and stand on the lead so that it's long enough to let her stand, but not so long that she can get wrapped around anything. Now, she may struggle, whine and give out, but you can just ignore her: there's not much she can do!
Eventually, they invariably calm down, and either sit or lie down. Now, straight away, tell her she's fab and pet her calmly and gently.
She may jump up again now, so you go straight back into ignore mode, with your foot still on the lead.
When she calms down, again the calm petting and praise.
Eventually, the penny will drop with her that calm behaviour gets attention for her, whereas silly behaviour gets her ignored.
You can eventually dispense with the lead altogether. And any time you see her voluntarily calming down, without the lead on, praise her and pet her calmly. At the moment, acting like a looper is working better for her than behaving calmly is, so you need to reverse that, and make the calm behaviour rewarding, but the loopy behaviour not!
As she gets used to being inside, she'll calm down anyway, as the novelty value of getting to be inside wears off.

Re crate training, there's loads of advice on this forum elsewhere if you do a search (it'll save me writing it out again:o), or have a look at the puppy training section of www.dogstardaily.com. This website has a playpen and crate system, which is my personal preference too, but you don't have to do the playpen bit of you don't have room.

So, when she's free in the house, for now, leave the lead attached so that you can quickly get control over her. And, get her used to settling on her bed in the crate when you need to get her offside a while.

shamrock55

fatmammycat wrote: »

Most young dog are mad as hatters inside if they're not normally allowed in, the excitement drives them bonkers. It's a chicken and egg situation, she needs to be in to be calm, but you'd like her to be calm to be in.
In your case, I'd try do this in stages. I'd take her for her morning walk, burn off some of that energy and when she's calmed down some, head back to the hosue, maybe feed her inside, perhaps in the kitchen, let her mooch around and settle as much as possible in that room, before allowing her access to entire house. Repeat and repeat until being inside is not such a 'big deal'. I'd do all this before I even through about the crate. She's needs to be used to being in the house first before the crate in the house, so to speak.
The play biting is all part and parcel of sheer excitment. And honestly, the best thing you can do is NOT play with a dog play biting. Ignore or the moment she bites, resume play when she's calmer. And everyone in the house should follow this, not just you and your partner.
It's just patience and routine that calms any dog, consistent patterns. You'll have a nicer dog at the end of it that the whole family can enjoy.
Best of luck.

Thanks for that but the thing is when she is in for any length of time she ends up going to the loo somewhere can i ask with the crate do they just sleep on the plastic base or do you put bedding down do they use the crate as a toilet ie not the kitchen floor is that how it works or do they like cry in the crate to be left out to go to the loo i havent a clue to be fair lol

DBB

fangee wrote: »

I've had dogs as pets since I was a kid. I would always advise to not have just one dog as two or more means they socialise better and more importantly they have a friend that is with them ALL the time.

Lots of us have had pets since we were kids!
Many dogs like the company of another dog. Some dogs couldn't give a hoot or would really prefer not to live with other dogs. Almost all dogs prefer human company to that of other dogs. Having a second dog somewhat eases loneliness for many dogs, but it is not a remedy for keeping the dogs outside with not enough human contact. I'm assuming you're advocating keeping the dog outside, based on your first post.

I've been in houses where dogs sleep in beds, eat from cereal bowls on a coffee table and these dogs had some shocking behaviour. I believe it is a territorial thing. These dogs had called the shots from day one and would growl at you if you were eating. Would snap at you if you refused access to certain parts of the house and so on.

I can guarantee you I've seen just as many dogs who live outside and don't have enough human contact who display what you describe, it's called resource guarding. Sometimes, it's because the pup has been allowed away with blue murder. Sometimes, it's because no training has been done. Most of the cases of resource guarding I see, personally, are in pups who were reared outside in a shed, fed communally from one food bowl, not given enough attention or resources, and have been given an excuse for guarding what they perceive as valuable to them.
There are also some breeds with a disposition to resource guard. The Westie is one of them.
Are you claiming that dogs who live inside have more behavioural problems? My experience is the reverse.

I've never had those problems. You can correct a dog without hitting it. Dogs WANT to please you. A different tone will let a puppy know what is acceptable to you and what is not. It will then "learn it's place" in the pecking order.

My dogs have always lived inside, and allowed up on furniture, and sometimes in the bed, and I have never had an issue either. I can guarantee there are loads of others here who'll tell you the same.
I think it's incredibly egotistical to say dogs WANT to please us. Do they? I'm more inclined to think they want to get the best out of any given situation with us. They may WANT to be friends with us. But to "please" us? I doubt it. If that was the case, there'd surely be far fewer behavioural problems in dogs.

That pecking order is that you are responsible for the dogs actions and you feed and take care of it. As such you ARE the boss.

Yes, okay... so what do you do when your dog does something really unacceptable, and won't stop when you say "No" in a stern tone of voice? How do you tell your dog you're "the boss" then?
[/QUOTE]

fatmammycat

shamrock55 wrote: »

Thanks for that but the thing is when she is in for any length of time she ends up going to the loo somewhere can i ask with the crate do they just sleep on the plastic base or do you put bedding down do they use the crate as a toilet ie not the kitchen floor is that how it works or do they like cry in the crate to be left out to go to the loo i havent a clue to be fair lol

For the unbroken house dog, it's really a matter of watching them and either reading their body language and letting them out to pee/poo before the accident, or catching them in the act and bringing them out straight out.
Most people I know that have crates (I never used one, my lad alway content to sleep on a rug and in his bed) have bedding in them, as dogs generally won't mess their beds. However, you've a bit of work to do before using the crate fully it seems. If she's not housetrained at all, you've to treat her like you would a small puppy, let her out a lot, loads of praise wheh she pees outside, and allow for small accidents and keep calm(easier said than done I know some days )

shamrock55

fatmammycat wrote: »

For the unbroken house dog, it's really a matter of watching them and either reading their body language and letting them out to pee/poo before the accident, or catching them in the act and bringing them out straight out.
Most people I know that have crates (I never used one, my lad alway content to sleep on a rug and in his bed) have bedding in them, as dogs generally won't mess their beds. However, you've a bit of work to do before using the crate fully it seems. If she's not housetrained at all, you've to treat her like you would a small puppy, let her out a lot, loads of praise wheh she pees outside, and allow for small accidents and keep calm(easier said than done I know some days )

Cheers for that if i keep putting her out ever half hour say or everytime she starts to go indoors will she eventually realise she is not ment to go inside i remember when we had dogs when i was younger we never had crates for the dogs and they were grand when indoors

shamrock55

fatmammycat wrote: »

Most young dog are mad as hatters inside if they're not normally allowed in, the excitement drives them bonkers. It's a chicken and egg situation, she needs to be in to be calm, but you'd like her to be calm to be in.
In your case, I'd try do this in stages. I'd take her for her morning walk, burn off some of that energy and when she's calmed down some, head back to the hosue, maybe feed her inside, perhaps in the kitchen, let her mooch around and settle as much as possible in that room, before allowing her access to entire house. Repeat and repeat until being inside is not such a 'big deal'. I'd do all this before I even through about the crate. She's needs to be used to being in the house first before the crate in the house, so to speak.
The play biting is all part and parcel of sheer excitment. And honestly, the best thing you can do is NOT play with a dog play biting. Ignore or the moment she bites, resume play when she's calmer. And everyone in the house should follow this, not just you and your partner.
It's just patience and routine that calms any dog, consistent patterns. You'll have a nicer dog at the end of it that the whole family can enjoy.
Best of luck.

Thanks for that im gonna need alot of patience id say

shamrock55

DBB wrote: »

Great to hear Shamrock!
It tends to be an issue for many owners that they'd love to have their dog inside, but the dog acts like a loon when she is let in, so she's put back out again!
Having the dog with you as much as you can is so important for her wellbeing: that's not to say that you have to be interacting all the time.. just being together is fine for the dog.
But you've got to have some control when you do let her in. So, here's what I'd suggest.
First of all, the crate is a great training tool from the point of view of housetraining (and no, you dog is not too old, the crate can be used to housetrain a dog of any age), but also as a place she goes to chill out whilst she's inside... say, when you want to eat dinner, or a have a few minutes to yourself, or when she's walked, fed and it's time to settle down and watch TV, the crate is just brilliant for this sort of thing. If she'#s to be in there for longer than a few minutes, set her up with a nice stuffed Kong Toy, so that she's not sitting there wondering what to do (for some Kong recipes, try www.kongcompany.com), also other chews like stag bars (antlers), and dried animal parts (liver, tripe, ears etc) are great distraction chews.
However, what when she's not in the crate? Using a houseline is a great management tool: by a houseline, I mean a light lead attached to her collar. Never leave this on her when she's unsupervised, for safety's sake.
When she comes in, ask her to sit, and do not pet her until she has sat. Same goes for the rest of the family. Persist with this rule: no attention until she's calm.
This next bit will be easiest at first if it's just you in the house, no kids or others to wind her up. When she gets the idea, you can start to practise when the kids are home, using the lead to control her around them (rather than having to make flying leaps to grab her collar!)
To calm her, when she comes in, get yourself a chair, lead her over beside you, and stand on the lead so that it's long enough to let her stand, but not so long that she can get wrapped around anything. Now, she may struggle, whine and give out, but you can just ignore her: there's not much she can do!
Eventually, they invariably calm down, and either sit or lie down. Now, straight away, tell her she's fab and pet her calmly and gently.
She may jump up again now, so you go straight back into ignore mode, with your foot still on the lead.
When she calms down, again the calm petting and praise.
Eventually, the penny will drop with her that calm behaviour gets attention for her, whereas silly behaviour gets her ignored.
You can eventually dispense with the lead altogether. And any time you see her voluntarily calming down, without the lead on, praise her and pet her calmly. At the moment, acting like a looper is working better for her than behaving calmly is, so you need to reverse that, and make the calm behaviour rewarding, but the loopy behaviour not!
As she gets used to being inside, she'll calm down anyway, as the novelty value of getting to be inside wears off.

Re crate training, there's loads of advice on this forum elsewhere if you do a search (it'll save me writing it out again:o), or have a look at the puppy training section of www.dogstardaily.com. This website has a playpen and crate system, which is my personal preference too, but you don't have to do the playpen bit of you don't have room.

So, when she's free in the house, for now, leave the lead attached so that you can quickly get control over her. And, get her used to settling on her bed in the crate when you need to get her offside a while.

Great advice thank you so much ill give the lead thing a go to try calm the crazy creature down a bit!!

mav79

http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_cages_carriers/carriers/metal_cages_and_boxes/129680

This is very like the crate we bought nearly three years ago for our terrier, the best item we ever spent money on for him. He doesn't use it at home but whenever we visit family or even on camping trips its invaluable.

Peetwins

Oh my goodness. Lots & lots of advice :-). I used a crate for my dogs as pups. Just a crate with a soft blanket. Great for house training but don't leave them in it too long as young dogs. If I am home they are out and about. Crate is in kitchen as they are always part of the family. If visitors come in or we are eating they are in the crate. When kids in bed they are on the couch beside me :-) At night they are in the crate. During the day the door is often open and yet are still in there. It's their bed. I have 4 kids so it's handy for the dogs to have somewhere safe from annoying petters too!

Good luck and have patience. Can't recommend the crate enough it's great if used properly.

Personally I would skip the treats. Feed him/her a good quality puppy nut and give him some rawhide chews to cut his teeth on. Too many treats and you will just have runny poos.... time enough to use treats as rewards for more complicated training when he's a wee but older. Sit stay etc.

shamrock55

Can i just ask if i get a crate will the dog goo to the loo in it at night if so would you be constantly cleaning it and the bedding every morning youd want an endless supply of dog blankets!!!

**Vai**

shamrock55 wrote: »

Can i just ask if i get a crate will the dog goo to the loo in it at night if so would you be constantly cleaning it and the bedding every morning youd want an endless supply of dog blankets!!!

No. The point of the crate is the dog wont want to go where it sleeps. There may be an accident or 2 at the start but if it keeps up I would bring the dog to the vet.

andreac

No it won't, the whole point of the crate is that it doesn't go where it sleeps. So you make sure the pup is taken out often enough so it doesn't go in the crate.
It's up to you to make sure you take the pup out every so often so they learn to go outside.

DBB

shamrock55 wrote: »

Can i just ask if i get a crate will the dog goo to the loo in it at night if so would you be constantly cleaning it and the bedding every morning youd want an endless supply of dog blankets!!!

If you're asking a youngster to go the whole night without needing to toilet, you're asking too much! If the pup is locked into the crate at night, chances are you're going to get the pup toileting on their bed, and you really want to avoid this at all costs.
So, if pup is to go in the crate for the night, either get up ion the middle of the night to let pup out to pee: this is the hardest option as it means you have to get up, but it is by far and away the most effective. Your pup will be housetrained much quicker this way, as you're making sure there are no accidents. The idea is that you get up say around 3am, and let pup out. If you find that pup has not toileted by this time, then try 4am the next night. Stick at this for a few days, then move it to 5am for a few days, then 6am etc etc. For very young pups, this process takes longer, but I think you said your youngster is 6 months-ish Shamrock? So you can speed things up a little as her physical ability to hold on is better than it would have been when you first got her.
The other option is to leave the crate open, and leave some newspaper out for her to on: you must not allow the situation to develop that she has to pee in her crate. However, by using newspaper at all, you're also making it a little more difficult for the pup to make to connection between full bladder, and going outside to relieve itself. The pup is learning that she can go to the toilet in the house if need be.
Getting the pup out each and every time seriously minimises accidents, it's called "error free learning", which means you set the pup up to learn in as realistic, but uncomplicated situation as you can... cut out the middleman of the newspaper, in other words!