Should we bring back the cane?

Chemical Burn

Unruly students are ruling the roost and teachers are afraid of them. Teachers were respected years ago, now the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction and pupils are respected and teachers fear them. Now, bringing back the cane will result in slap happy teachers, like they had back in the day of my father, so , we should bring in caning Singapore / Malaysian style, whereby students (boys only in Singapore and both boys and girls in Malaysia) will receive a predetermined number of strokes of the cane for unruly behavior. This will curb misbehavior and bring back authority to the teachers, whilst eliminating gender-discriminatory punishment which is rampant in Irish schools affecting boys and some teachers who may abuse power. What do you all think?

TLDR: Bring back caning, no more little bollixes.

frozenfrozen

No that's a terrible idea, stick out your hand you're getting the cane

hfallada

In my experience a teacher that treats a student like a young adult gets respect from the students. A teacher which has students misbehaving in class is because there lack of abilities to control the class. The issues is with them.

Beating a child will achieve nothing but cause distress and **** load of lawsuits for state in the future

mattjack

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Unruly students are ruling the roost and teachers are afraid of them. Teachers were respected years ago, now the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction and pupils are respected and teachers fear them. Now, bringing back the cane will result in slap happy teachers, like they had back in the day of my father, so , we should bring in caning Singapore / Malaysian style, whereby students (boys only in Singapore and both boys and girls in Malaysia) will receive a predetermined number of strokes of the cane for unruly behavior. This will curb misbehavior and bring back authority to the teachers, whilst eliminating gender-discriminatory punishment which is rampant in Irish schools affecting boys and some teachers who may abuse power. What do you all think?

TLDR: Bring back caning, no more little bollixes.

Would you not go and live in Malaysia ?

Ghandee

Reminds me in this.

Cookie_Monster

no, but allow teachers to throw those good news bibles at unruly students, they'll calm down quick enough after feeling on of them

xLexie

Teachers need a lick of the cane themselves, whinging and crying about their tough job. Boohoo

Larianne

No, but they should bring back Fat Frogs!

Custardpi

Personally I think it would be a fantastic idea to bring back the cane, provided of course it could also be applied to poorly performing teachers.

Pottler

I went to a school that still had "the cane". Never got it, despite being an awful messer. "Let me see if I get this, you want me to stick out my hand so's you can hit it with a bit of bamboo? How about No?. Sir." Never did stick out my hand, but if they had insisted, I'd have happily stuck the cane up their hole. It's a deterrent for some, a challenge for others. I much prefer a bit of mutual respect. Funnily enough, I never did mess in the interesting, dedicated teachers classes.

squod

Chemical Burn wrote: »

we should bring in caning Singapore / Malaysian style, whereby students (boys only in Singapore and both boys and girls in Malaysia) will receive a predetermined number of strokes of the cane for unruly behavior.

Pervert

castletownman

When I was a pup, we got spanked by Presidents till the cows came home. Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions.

The King of Moo

That's a terrible idea OP. Caning would just create more little bollockses.

Two things would help:

1. Parents ensuring that teenagers entering secondary school are not likely to act up.

2. Secondary-school teachers being able to control and command the respect of students without having to resort to violence. A good teacher of teenagers won't have many serious situations with students occurring in the first place. I've come across too many secondary school teachers completely lacking in the fundamentals of classroom management.

mattjack

castletownman wrote: »

When I was a pup, we got spanked by Presidents till the cows came home. Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions.

I think you may have been hit on your head a few times too.

Sunnyisland

I attended school when corporal punishment was the norm from de la salle brothers to suit wearing masters, all it did was install fear and hatred,and it certainly did not do any thing for unruly pupils that attended also there is no evidence that children are worse than in previous generations, and why would anyone thinks it is necessary to physically punish children rather than warn them, reason with them, remove them from the situation, or otherwise discipline them.

The King of Moo

xLexie wrote: »

Teachers need a lick of the cane themselves, whinging and crying about their tough job. Boohoo

Teaching spoiled teenagers is a tough job.

Miss Lockhart

Absolutely not! Thankfully those days are gone.

hfallada wrote: »

A teacher which has students misbehaving in class is because there lack of abilities to control the class. The issues is with them.

This might be the issue in some cases, but not in many others. In many cases the rules imposed and standards expected in a classroom are the only rules and standards encountered anywhere in a child's life and at the same time they are very often being actively encouraged at home to rebel against those rules.

At the end of the day there are no sanctions that schools can impose, or rewards they can offer, that matter to the most difficult students. If you have no interest in anything and there will be no consequences for you in your home life, then why would you care about rewards or sanctions in school?

catallus

castletownman wrote: »

When I was a pup, we got spanked by Presidents till the cows came home. Grover Cleveland spanked me on two non-consecutive occasions.

Ah, there's an interesting story behind this nickel. In 1957, I remember it was, I got up in the morning and made myself a piece of toast. I set the toaster to three - medium brown.

JustAddWater

mmmmmm candy cane *drool* ....

Pottler

The King of Moo wrote: »

That's a terrible idea OP. Caning would just create more little bollockses.

Two things would help:

1. Parents ensuring that teenagers entering secondary school are not likely to act up.

2. Secondary-school teachers being able to control and command the respect of students without having to resort to violence. A good teacher of teenagers won't have many serious situations with students occurring in the first place. I've come across too many secondary school teachers completely lacking in the fundamentals of classroom management.

Speaking personally, I came across a fair few that couldn't manage themselves, let alone a classroom. I went to an awful rough secondary school, on the way in they frisked you to make sure you were carrying your knife. You'd go from one class to the next, one teacher would be a looper, and you'd do your best to get them to lose the plot in front of the class, the next would be a brilliant teacher and you sit rapt for the whole lesson, loving the learning.

Never, ever messed in the good teachers classes, never, ever stopped trying to wind up the loopy Lous to get them to throw a wobbler. At least a wobbler was interesting and had structure(roaring, threatening and then crying) as opposed to the dull waffly crap of their "lesson plan". Good teachers don't need canes, and they're no use to bad ones.

bluecode

No, absolutely no. I was there at the rag end of the cane era and I got my hand slapped once or twice. It was horrible and I didn't deserve it. Sure one of my most respected teachers, Mr Muldoon used a cane and boy did he lose his temper but nevertheless, on balance there was no point to it. It made no difference to the hard bastards and only imtimidated the softies like me.

With respect, Mr Ferriter, controlled us without a cane. Muldoon used a cane but fairly and never hit me. Mr Boland was nice and somewhat reluctantly used a ruler. But Mrs Brown was an outright cow to the extent that my Mother, a gentle woman, felt compelled to complain to the school about her attitude to me and to the extent that I blanked her from my memory and only remembered the bitch, long dead when my Mother reminded me in my later forties.

So no, I don't think we should bring back the cane. Beating the crap out of the assholes won't make any difference but beating the rest of us will only screw us up.

Most kids don't need the cane and quite frankly anyone who lays a hand on my children will die! Simple as that.

1ZRed

The King of Moo wrote: »

That's a terrible idea OP. Caning would just create more little bollockses.

Two things would help:

1. Parents ensuring that teenagers entering secondary school are not likely to act up.

2. Secondary-school teachers being able to control and command the respect of students without having to resort to violence. A good teacher of teenagers won't have many serious situations with students occurring in the first place. I've come across too many secondary school teachers completely lacking in the fundamentals of classroom management.

Very true. I had one teacher who was fantastic at her job, so intelligent and informative, but tolerated no BS whatsoever. She was hard on us in the early years of secondary but it made us respect her and thus we earned her respect and she gradually treated us more at her level as the years progressed.

This teacher was feared because she did punish students harshly, but fairly. Safe to say everybody made sure they had their work done, even the messers that'd do SFA made sure of it.

Imo, that's the way to get things done and to get students to behave.

Of course it's not going to easy because not all teachers have that mix of sternness, intelligence and ability to keep the classes' attention and you'll always get those teachers who have all of that but lack control of the class and end up being poor teachers as a result.

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder

One teacher used to send us outside to find a stick to be beaten with, if you didn't come back in with a good enough stick you got a double hiding from the worst stick she could find. The stick had to have rough barbs and be springy enough to keep her happy. I was 5 years old, you'd be whipped untill your hands were red raw for just whispering to your friend. Complete mind fck for 5 year olds. Welcome to Ireland I suppose. She was also the worst teacher I ever had, we learned nothing. Co-incidence ? I don't think so. I've nothing against teachers. Ireland is still full of these types of people today in every workplace and walk of life. C'est la vie.

As for older kids in secondary school, genuinely disrupting any class, they should just be sent home and not tolerated. End of problem.

MadsL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5diMImYIIA

TheBegotten

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Unruly students are ruling the roost and teachers are afraid of them. Teachers were respected years ago, now the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction and pupils are respected and teachers fear them. Now, bringing back the cane will result in slap happy teachers, like they had back in the day of my father, so , we should bring in caning Singapore / Malaysian style, whereby students (boys only in Singapore and both boys and girls in Malaysia) will receive a predetermined number of strokes of the cane for unruly behavior. This will curb misbehavior and bring back authority to the teachers, whilst eliminating gender-discriminatory punishment which is rampant in Irish schools affecting boys and some teachers who may abuse power. What do you all think?

TLDR: Bring back caning, no more little bollixes.

In phase one, we dehumanise the enemy by referring to them as "students" as opposed to people.
Besides, I've never met a teacher who wants caning back. Not even my slightly facist Chemistry teacher.

ColeTrain

hfallada wrote: »

In my experience a teacher that treats a student like a young adult gets respect from the students. A teacher which has students misbehaving in class is because there lack of abilities to control the class. The issues is with them.

Beating a child will achieve nothing but cause distress and **** load of lawsuits for state in the future

I can just imagine all the gurriers and scumbag 'students' behaving themselves because their 'teachers is so cool and treats us like the individuals we really are'.

The reality is, classes cannot be controlled because of students who don't give a f*** and will stop a class from being taught any chance they get. The problem is simple, there are no consequence for their actions. That was certainly the case when I was a student myself and hearing from teachers the problems they face.

TheBegotten

ColeTrain wrote: »

I can just imagine all the gurriers and scumbag 'students' behaving themselves because their 'teachers is so cool and treats us like the individuals we really are'.

The reality is, classes cannot be controlled because of students who don't give a f*** and will stop a class from being taught any chance they get. The problem is simple, there are no consequence for their actions. That was certainly the case when I was a student myself and hearing from teachers the problems they face.

Not true. I'm a secondary school student, and lads that might spend one class trying to raise hell might sit rapt through the next. It generally comes down to the teachers confidence and ability. H-dips generally have no chance, but after a year or two they develop the attitude and skills needed. Ruling by fear will make the hard ones harder, the soft ones terrified and the smart ones bitter.

shedweller

It would never work. Completely changing the education system would. But it has to be from the ground up. That is to say, from pre school, all the way to university. Simple things like proper playgrounds where kids can climb etc. during breaks. Lads are acting up in class because they have this pent up energy and just cannot cope with it. Let them spin out themselves in the yard on things like low level tightropes (6" off the ground) works their brain and muscles so much and they come back to class relaxed and able to concentrate.
Boys cannot sit in chairs for long so they the act the bollox in jig time.
Let them stand up while they work.

Ah but..... Ah but me hole. Just get taller tables they can stand at.
Ah but...they'll hurt themselves in the yard and sue the school.
They won't hurt themselves if they are doing this stuff from day one.

I had the pleasure of visiting Sweden during the year and i have to say, they sure know how to do an education system. School playground on a par with our own Ardgillan playground and not only that, because it is state owned it is left open at the weekends so everybody can use it. Because the people own it!! How about that for rocket science!! Not vandalised either? Why?
They don't ram maths down their throats until later, 6 i think. Apparently the human brain isn't ready for that kind of thing at a younger age.

They are taught how to make ten different meals when they start school. The first year they only do the basics. But as the years progress, they get deeper into it so that by the time they finish school they can buy and cook ten different meals. Not only that but they can do two different ballroom dances properly.

This and more in primary school. And since Sweden is doing well economically it must mean they are doing something right!

The Irish attitude to education is ****ed and needs a major overhaul. Actually there's a lot thats ****ed in this country. Could we not just copy some things from other countries? There's no shame in that surely?

And there's no shortage of money either.
How much are we giving private bondholders again?

Vicar in a tutu

Awful idea, it shows a weakness in a persons character if they demand respect by issuing violence, plus kids will be kids, they'll just try to be more discreet next time.

The King of Moo

ColeTrain wrote: »

I can just imagine all the gurriers and scumbag 'students' behaving themselves because their 'teachers is so cool and treats us like the individuals we really are'.

The reality is, classes cannot be controlled because of students who don't give a f*** and will stop a class from being taught any chance they get. The problem is simple, there are no consequence for their actions. That was certainly the case when I was a student myself and hearing from teachers the problems they face.

I disagree, and having taught English to teenagers for most of the last four years and worked with secondary school teachers from other countries and seen their effect on their students, I can tell you that treating them with respect is by and large the best option.

There's always going to be an irredeemable tiny minority, but if you treat teenagers like the young adults they usually are, you tend to get respect back.
Some teachers mistake this as trying to act cool and down with the kids. That's not how to do it: you should never try that as teenagers can spot an act in a moment and they'll never respect you for it.
You should simply treat them the same way you treat adults, as they're just as smart as adults will be, and often more curious and sincere in their beliefs. They're the most interesting people to talk to, so talking down to them or trying to be a tyrant to them will never work.

What I find fascinating is seeing all the different groups of kids, and how important the role of a secondary school teacher is by seeing how much their behaviour is determined by their regular secondary school teachers.
The kids I've had the most work managing have been the ones who come here with teachers who take out whatever's making them angry on the students, and the ones whose teachers try to get the students to like them by being "cool" and going to the pub with them and letting them do what they want.

The best students I've taught have been the ones whose teachers have their respect without having to try to scare them into putting on a show of respect. The students genuinely like them, and know that if they step out of line they'll be punished, but that's a moot point as they don't want to act up in the first place.

While you'll always get one or two gombeens who'll also be difficult in life, generally if you treat young people with respect you'll get it back.

Pottler

TheBegotten wrote: »

Not true. I'm a secondary school student, and lads that might spend one class trying to raise hell might sit rapt through the next. It generally comes down to the teachers confidence and ability. H-dips generally have no chance, but after a year or two they develop the attitude and skills needed. Ruling by fear will make the hard ones harder, the soft ones terrified and the smart ones bitter.

This, 100%. I went to a famous(in the bad way)London primary school. There were plenty of pupils there that had the capacity to quite casually maim a teacher without blinking. Carrying a knife was the norm, literally, unless you liked living on your knees. It was one of the most deprived and marginalised student bodies going. We had teachers we literally loved and would die of shame to mess in their class, no matter how much of a hard chaw you were - that went for male and female teachers. There were others we despised, either for their arbitrary unfairness, their dull classes, or their personal issues - their lives were a misery. A cane would not have done them an ounce of good.

1ZRed

shedweller wrote: »

It would never work. Completely changing the education system would. But it has to be from the ground up. That is to say, from pre school, all the way to university. Simple things like proper playgrounds where kids can climb etc. during breaks. Lads are acting up in class because they have this pent up energy and just cannot cope with it. Let them spin out themselves in the yard on things like low level tightropes (6" off the ground) works their brain and muscles so much and they come back to class relaxed and able to concentrate.
Boys cannot sit in chairs for long so they the act the bollox in jig time.
Let them stand up while they work.

Ah but..... Ah but me hole. Just get taller tables they can stand at.
Ah but...they'll hurt themselves in the yard and sue the school.
They won't hurt themselves if they are doing this stuff from day one.

I had the pleasure of visiting Sweden during the year and i have to say, they sure know how to do an education system. School playground on a par with our own Ardgillan playground and not only that, because it is state owned it is left open at the weekends so everybody can use it. Because the people own it!! How about that for rocket science!! Not vandalised either? Why?
They don't ram maths down their throats until later, 6 i think. Apparently the human brain isn't ready for that kind of thing at a younger age.

They are taught how to make ten different meals when they start school. The first year they only do the basics. But as the years progress, they get deeper into it so that by the time they finish school they can buy and cook ten different meals. Not only that but they can do two different ballroom dances properly.

This and more in primary school. And since Sweden is doing well economically it must mean they are doing something right!

The Irish attitude to education is ****ed and needs a major overhaul. Actually there's a lot thats ****ed in this country. Could we not just copy some things from other countries? There's no shame in that surely?

And there's no shortage of money either.
How much are we giving private bondholders again?

I don't agree with a lot of that. Although the education system could be improved here quite a bit, it is still of a very high standard compared to many other countries.

I don't buy into this "Boys cannot sit in chairs for long so they the act the bollox in jig time" and "Let them stand up while they work." How would that be a solution to the problem?

The most effective way in stopping badly behaved children or older students is the way of teaching and demanding respect and giving appropriate punishment that is fair and making them realise why they're getting punished so that they might avoid acting out again.

It's not solely the education systems fault, it's the way it's delivered that ultimately matters, and that's been proven here with posters stating how they'd listen and learn without giving any trouble in classes where the teacher was more engaging and had control over the students.
They acted up where the teacher wasn't able to do so or wasn't able to grasp their attention and make them want to learn.

Imo, that's the ultimate test of a good teacher -if they can make you want to learn by your own accord and choosing, not to feel like you're just doing it because you're being forced.

Edit: Woah! took up your post in the wrong way, and having reread it, I think I agree with your general pov.

tan11ie

Bad idea, Teacher has cane...pupil retaliates with knife or gun. Violence solves nothing.

kraggy

xLexie wrote: »

Teachers need a lick of the cane themselves, whinging and crying about their tough job. Boohoo

Have you ever taught? No? Then stop talking about things you know nothing about.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people who have never taught think they know what it's like to be a teacher.

Piece of info for you: having gone to school DOES NOT GIVE YOU AN INSIGHT TO THE CHALLENGES OF THE JOB.

Bad Santa

Chemical Burn wrote: »

TLDR: Bring back caning, no more little bollixes.

Precisely. Bring back caning and there won't be any more little bollixes, they'll be engorged ones.

Plenty of ways to discipline kids without resorting to abuse.

Agricola

Not a chance. When we had corporal punishment before it resulted in horrific and unwarranted abuse of kids, usually for no good reason. Talk to anyone in Ireland of a certain age and the majority have horror stories about incidents they experienced themselves or saw in class. My father was taught by a man who by all accounts sounded like a psychopath, and my mother had a terrible time from nuns in a convent.

It just leads to fear and a hatred of education.

uch

YES

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder

Pottler wrote: »

We had teachers we literally loved and would die of shame to mess in their class, no matter how much of a hard chaw you were - that went for male and female teachers..

So what was there secret / talent ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sweet Jesus, where am I? Certainly not AH when someone suggests bringing back the cane and it's almost unanimously hailed as a bad idea...

Celly Smunt

No need for the cane.Parents should just give up that supernanny bulls#it that's plagued parenting the last few years and install some manners in their children.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

pmcmahon wrote: »

No need for the cane.Parents should just give up that supernanny bulls#it that's plagued parenting the last few years and install some manners in their children.

"Supernammy bull****"??! So removing said child from situation and confirming bad beaviour while reaffirming positive is rubbish? Ye-ah.... kids will learn great manners without any clue of the difference between good and bad...

Ruudi_Mentari

In vein.. will the cane, ease the pain of the slain?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

In vein.. will the cane, ease the pain of the slain?

You're insane.

uch

Yes, Whack them fukc ers

Ruudi_Mentari

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You're insane.

in the brain or on the train? Nonetheless, I never feign

end of the road

Chemical Burn wrote: »

This will curb misbehavior and bring back authority to the teachers

how do you know? why do people insist on always putting "this will be a deterrant" "this will stop this" "this will stop that" maybe if it never was stopped you might have a point, but these days if they did bring back the cane most likely a student will hit back or worse, and i really couldn't care a less what backward med-evil wannabe western countries like singapore do

CollardGreens

:rolleyes: Lets put them in the cage and poke sticks at them!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

in the brain or on the train? Nonetheless, I never feign

Feignst du? Oh how mundane! In the membrane or on the train.