DDI

Hijpo

Direct democracy ireland is having a meeting in the Ramada hotel on the 12th Feb at 8pm until 10pm. Instead of bashing our keyboards giving out about stroke politics and government salaries, pensions and quangos we shoukd go and listen to how we can have a meaningful vote on what happens in our country. This is how we make change, not some representative with vested interests.

Ramada Hotel, 12th Feb 8pm, i hope we get a decent amount of people.

Sorry if its against forum charter, but it really shouldnt be.

Sully

Moving to Events Guide

(I kid, I kid!)

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Moving to Events Guide

(I kid, I kid!)

Hahah :-D

You know i was going to put it in there until i saw a post stating "this thread is way to dead" so figured theres no way its going to be seen in thers.

Am Chile

Hijpo wrote: »

Direct democracy ireland is having a meeting in the Ramada hotel on the 12th Feb at 8pm until 10pm. Instead of bashing our keyboards giving out about stroke politics and government salaries, pensions and quangos we shoukd go and listen to how we can have a meaningful vote on what happens in our country. This is how we make change, not some representative with vested interests.

Ramada Hotel, 12th Feb 8pm, i hope we get a decent amount of people.

Sorry if its against forum charter, but it really shouldnt be.

While I would strongly a support swiss style direct democracy political system, from look at the website of DDI although they have a FAQ section, they have no list of party policies or party political positions on their website, at the moment they come across to me as a single issue party.

fricatus

Am Chile wrote: »

While I would strongly a support swiss style direct democracy political system, from look at the website of DDI although they have a FAQ section, they have no list of party policies or party political positions on their website, at the moment they come across to me as a single issue party.

I think that's the whole idea. IIRC, they want this system brought in, and once that aim is achieved, they're happy to go their own way, because there would then be a method for enough concerned citizens to petition the government on whatever they like.

Swinng

I do like what they are proposing but at the moment it is a party with no substance

I would like to know if they were in government what else would they do for Health, Education, International affairs, Local government, etc

I have checked the web site and there is no details

Hijpo

Swinng wrote: »

I do like what they are proposing but at the moment it is a party with no substance

I would like to know if they were in government what else would they do for Health, Education, International affairs, Local government, etc

I have checked the web site and there is no details

all the more reason to go to the information meeting, get the answers to your questions first hand.

Finnbar01

Hijpo wrote: »

Direct democracy ireland is having a meeting in the Ramada hotel on the 12th Feb at 8pm until 10pm. Instead of bashing our keyboards giving out about stroke politics and government salaries, pensions and quangos we shoukd go and listen to how we can have a meaningful vote on what happens in our country. This is how we make change, not some representative with vested interests.

Ramada Hotel, 12th Feb 8pm, i hope we get a decent amount of people.

Sorry if its against forum charter, but it really shouldnt be.

I'm very interested in this but I will not be able to make it.

Is there any chance of videoing this and putting it up on youtube?

Hijpo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I'm very interested in this but I will not be able to make it.

Is there any chance of videoing this and putting it up on youtube?

I was actually thinking of that exact same thing, they announced a meeting in Leixlip and obviously wasnt going to make that so i was going to enquire about at least getting minutes taken at it, but a video of the waterford meet would be alot more efficient, ill suss it out.

Will you be going sully, out of interest alone?

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

I was actually thinking of that exact same thing, they announced a meeting in Leixlip and obviously wasnt going to make that so i was going to enquire about at least getting minutes taken at it, but a video of the waterford meet would be alot more efficient, ill suss it out.

Will you be going sully, out of interest alone?

Due to another engagement with the sun in a hot country, i'm afraid ill have to send my apologies.

Hijpo

bring us back a rock?

The Reamer

Swinng wrote: »

I do like what they are proposing but at the moment it is a party with no substance

I would like to know if they were in government what else would they do for Health, Education, International affairs, Local government, etc

I have checked the web site and there is no details

Whatever they come out with it a moot point anyway because they will never be in government.
They are the same as the socialist party et al - all fancy ideas about how great things will be run but it does'nt make a sh!t of difference cos they will never have to implement their policies as no-one will vote for them.

I wouldn't waste me time on it.

Hijpo

The Reamer wrote: »

Whatever they come out with it a moot point anyway because they will never be in government.
They are the same as the socialist party et al - all fancy ideas about how great things will be run but it does'nt make a sh!t of difference cos they will never have to implement their policies as no-one will vote for them.

I wouldn't waste me time on it.

Another "sure what can we do" attitude.
I take it you dont vote either?

The Reamer

I do vote. I vote for pragmatic politicians not idealistic dreamers.

Last time I gave my No. 1 to an independent who had a proven track record for getting things done in the constituency. No. 2 went to FG.

Hijpo

The Reamer wrote: »

I do vote. I vote for pragmatic politicians not idealistic dreamers.

Last time I gave my No. 1 to an independent who had a proven track record for getting things done in the constituency. No. 2 went to FG.

Go you!!

Voting for someone who has as much chance as you think DDI has then.
:pac:


Every party started somewhere, this is an information meeting about how DDI works and what they aim to achieve not a meeting on a sure fire way to take over the world. Its attitudes like "no it will never work" and writing things off straight away before listening and learning about it that has the country 20 years behind most of europe.

darkhorse

Am Chile wrote: »

they have no list of party policies or party political positions on their website, at the moment they come across to me as a single issue party.

But just look whats in at the present. They listed their policies pre-election. Which ones did they not lie about.

Hijpo

darkhorse wrote: »

But just look whats in at the present. They listed their policies pre-election. Which ones did they not lie about.

Id rather a party with no policies (yet) and tries to give more democratic power to the people than a party with a manifesto that can promise the sun moon and stars but deliver austerity, big pensions for themselfs and be powerless to cut current fat cat expenses.

That in itself would be reason enough to vote for direct democracy

darkhorse

The Reamer wrote: »

They will never have to implement their policies as no-one will vote for them.

I will, so will my family and extended family, so thats 30+ votes for a start.

darkhorse

Hijpo wrote: »

Id rather a party with no policies (yet) and tries to give more democratic power to the people than a party with a manifesto that can promise the sun moon and stars but deliver austerity, big pensions for themselfs and be powerless to cut current fat cat expenses.

That in itself would be reason enough to vote for direct democracy

I agree 100%, hombre.;)

7upfree

The Reamer wrote: »

I do vote. I vote for pragmatic politicians not idealistic dreamers.

Last time I gave my No. 1 to an independent who had a proven track record for getting things done in the constituency. No. 2 went to FG.

What, exactly, did this independent "get done" do you mind me asking?

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

Go you!!

Voting for someone who has as much chance as you think DDI has then.
:pac:


Every party started somewhere, this is an information meeting about how DDI works and what they aim to achieve not a meeting on a sure fire way to take over the world. Its attitudes like "no it will never work" and writing things off straight away before listening and learning about it that has the country 20 years behind most of europe.

That's about it. All great things start with a flicker of an idea.

Finnbar01

Direct democracy is a brillant idea. I definately would vote for any party promoting it.

Hijpo

A great meeting.

All seats were taken, people lined the back of the room and people even stood outside to listen. A great turn out.

Looking forward to the next one.

Now if only the national media would support DDI in its exposure to the people we could very well have our true democratic rights back.

Brick Session

Will these boys be setting up camp by the Clock tower by any chance?

Hijpo

I would supply them with a marquee if they wanted to.

darkhorse

Hijpo wrote: »

I would supply them with a marquee if they wanted to.

I can't help wondering if the majority of people are just happy with the status quo of what we have governing us for the past number of years, because this new party, People For Economic Justice, for all intents and purposes, would dearly love to see Direct Democracy returned to the people of Ireland(DDI), and what is so wrong with that. Why is hardly anybody on social networking forums not giving these people more coverage.

Up2NoGood

Is there a date and venue set for the next meting or a FB page ? Please keep us informed.

Hijpo

darkhorse wrote: »

I can't help wondering if the majority of people are just happy with the status quo of what we have governing us for the past number of years, because this new party, People For Economic Justice, for all intents and purposes, would dearly love to see Direct Democracy returned to the people of Ireland(DDI), and what is so wrong with that. Why is hardly anybody on social networking forums not giving these people more coverage.

They couldnt possibly be happy, democracy in ireland has gone from voting for change to simply voting the other bad bunch out but not replacing them with anythign better. This is false democracy as you are voting for the same lies, corruption and scandal. It has been indicated that the media possibly dont want to promote DDI. A few links to these claims stand out like when party leader Ben Gilroy stood outside the Dáil waiting to confront TD's over there late night scandal while everyone else was asleep, the TV cameras and photographers went around to the other side of the building so he wouldnt be seen. That on the back of Enda Kenny having a right oul craic with Denis o Brien in the NYSE, what does Denis O'Brien do again?

Make of it what you will, many will rubbish it however this is FF we are talking about and there reputation warrants me to believe that they have there fingers in the media pie.

Word of mouth and as many people liking there facebook page as possible will have to do for now because they will not get the help from national media, simple as.


Next DDI Waterford meeting organised for this Thursday 21st at 8pm in the Ramada Hotel Waterford.

Waterford Branch FB Page

DDI Main FB Page


DDI Webpage Which gives more information of what this party is trying to achieve and why.

Sully

DDI wont ever happen in Ireland, not in my lifetime anyway. It will be generations before it will be even considered, if at all.

The problem is not with the system we have in place - its with our electorate. Our electorate rarely punishes parties for lies, greed, corruption and so on. Right now the country is willing to vote back in the party which brought the country to its knees and then pushed it over the edge resulting in the next party implementing tough cuts to "balance" the books and get the country back working again. The pain isn't welcome and as tradition goes - hire FG/Lab to fix it and bring back Fianna Fail to get the good times, the generous spending, and get back down the garden path of the Celtic Tiger leading to another generation of suffering.

That's not a problem with democracy or the system we have in place - its a problem down to the electorate. The same electorate who buy into the bull**** spread by left wing parties during EU Referendums and other nut job groups that pop in from over waters knowing how easy it is to influence the vote. Its the same electorate who didn't take the childrens rights referendums seriously (with one person on Boards saying he wasn't voting because he has no interest in children!).

Its history repeating itself and I am sad to be part of it tbh. I expected different from FG/Lab, and I hoped for different from the electorate. Perhaps if FG/Lab broke from tradition themselves in their policy implementations, than we wouldn't have a possibility of a Fianna Fail government after the next election. With a possible Sinn Fein coalition - god help us!

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

The problem is not with the system we have in place - its with our electorate. Our electorate rarely punishes parties for lies, greed, corruption and so on.

Its history repeating itself and I am sad to be part of it tbh. I expected different from FG/Lab, and I hoped for different from the electorate. Perhaps if FG/Lab broke from tradition themselves in their policy implementations, than we wouldn't have a possibility of a Fianna Fail government after the next election. With a possible Sinn Fein coalition - god help us!

So we have FF, FG, Lab and SF. Four parties to pick from, two being corrupt up to there eye balls, one being too spineless to stand up to the others and then Sinn Fein who everyone sees as terrorists.

4 dodgy parties and the problem is cast back to the electorate?

What powers does the electorate have to punish a party that lies to get into power? What powers does the electorate have to stand up against a bill they dont agree with, thats rushed through under cover of darkness?

Vote against them in the next election seems to be the ONLY way to "punish" these liars and scammers.

Its a joke sully, i dont understand how people are content with the bones they are being thrown while the hypocrits feast at the main table.

What power does the electorate have to make change and ensure that the change is made?


ps- hope you enjoyed your holiday

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

So we have FF, FG, Lab and SF. Four parties to pick from, two being corrupt up to there eye balls, one being too spineless to stand up to the others and then Sinn Fein who everyone sees as terrorists.

4 dodgy parties and the problem is cast back to the electorate?

What powers does the electorate have to punish a party that lies to get into power? What powers does the electorate have to stand up against a bill they dont agree with, thats rushed through under cover of darkness?

Vote against them in the next election seems to be the ONLY way to "punish" these liars and scammers.

Its a joke sully, i dont understand how people are content with the bones they are being thrown while the hypocrits feast at the main table.

What power does the electorate have to make change and ensure that the change is made?

Its not like any of these parties are stopping another party from forming. Again, it boils down to the electorate. We also had the PDs and the Greens.

Fianna Fail did a lot of good, so they are not completely bad eggs. I wouldn't suggest Fine Gael as being corrupt and they have fixed our economy in the past and are doing so currently. We vote on party policies and the large majority of them are implemented as indicated.

Sinn Feins terrorism connections haven't gone away and they are sticking with their own batch of bad eggs. They don't seem to want to shake that image. Their polices are woeful and not even costed by the Department. Their solution is "Take from the pension fund and implement a wealth tax" which clearly doesn't work. They are against austerity, property tax and water tax - but a few miles up North the party implements austerity much harsher than down here.

As for what powers - democracy. You don't vote them in again when the election is back. People power does work - but Irish people never bother doing anything even during an election. The few times Irish people have mass protested its actually worked. There are always mini groups that protest and wonder "Why are we not heard?" but they don't have the majority support.

Finnbar01

Was that Ben Gilroy giving a presentation at the Ramada hotel?

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Its not like any of these parties are stopping another party from forming. Again, it boils down to the electorate. We also had the PDs and the Greens.

Voters can only choose from the parties that are there, when there are only bad parties to choose from we have to vote for someone dont we?

Sully wrote: »

Fianna Fail did a lot of good, so they are not completely bad eggs. I wouldn't suggest Fine Gael as being corrupt and they have fixed our economy in the past and are doing so currently. We vote on party policies and the large majority of them are implemented as indicated.

Sinn Feins terrorism connections haven't gone away and they are sticking with their own batch of bad eggs. They don't seem to want to shake that image. Their polices are woeful and not even costed by the Department. Their solution is "Take from the pension fund and implement a wealth tax" which clearly doesn't work. They are against austerity, property tax and water tax - but a few miles up North the party implements austerity much harsher than down here.

Its like walking into a shop with only 3 products on the shelf, mouldy bread, sour milk and and opened tin of beans. You'll pick the mouldy bread coz somewhere in the middle there might be an edible slice.

Sully wrote: »

As for what powers - democracy. You don't vote them in again when the election is back. People power does work - but Irish people never bother doing anything even during an election. The few times Irish people have mass protested its actually worked. There are always mini groups that protest and wonder "Why are we not heard?" but they don't have the majority support.

Not voting them in again is too little too late, by then they are half way through slashing and burning households finances, raising tax (in a round about way) and planning to implement even more debits from spendable income. Come march they will all be garaunteed nice big pensions, wheres the public pension fund gone? all with the citizens powerless to do anything about it except vote in more liars who will stay another minimum of two years until they are pensioned up again. Protests do nothing to hurt government, people protested in the south dublin counil and the gaurds assaulted them. Deterents, thats what our government believes in.

No choice, no power, no democracy. Its even worse in the dáil with that whip system. whats the point of having 165 TD's when only 30 odd percent have the balls to vote against?

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Was that Ben Gilroy giving a presentation at the Ramada hotel?

It was.


Id like to get away from talking about other parties, i have my views on them.
This thread is about the DDI meeting

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Voters can only choose from the parties that are there, when there are only bad parties to choose from we have to vote for someone dont we?

The parties will change if they feel the electorate wont take their crap. You will never have a completely honest, transparent and party that everyone will be happy with. The smaller parties that tried to launch failed. People are happy with what we have.

Its like walking into a shop with only 3 products on the shelf, mouldy bread, sour milk and and opened tin of beans. You'll pick the mouldy bread coz somewhere in the middle there might be an edible slice.

In such an example, the people will demand something be done about it if they are unhappy. They wont go with the crappy products all the time, they will demand something else. If some other fresh product arrives on the scene, and people don't flock to it, than it shows people are happy with what they have.

Not voting them in again is too little too late, by then they are half way through slashing and burning households finances, raising tax (in a round about way) and planning to implement even more debits from spendable income. Come march they will all be garaunteed nice big pensions, wheres the public pension fund gone? all with the citizens powerless to do anything about it except vote in more liars who will stay another minimum of two years until they are pensioned up again. Protests do nothing to hurt government, people protested in the south dublin counil and the gaurds assaulted them. Deterents, thats what our government believes in.

The government isn't that bad. The country is doing pretty well and is recovering, slowly but surely. You will always have tax increases and cuts - there is no way to avoid it. I don't believe they are damaging our economy or our future and they are putting us on the road to recovery. Its more about the way they went about it people are unhappy with it. Their pensions were cut.

No choice, no power, no democracy. Its even worse in the dáil with that whip system. whats the point of having 165 TD's when only 30 odd percent have the balls to vote against?

You voted in the parties in their policies. I agree the whip system needs reform but to allow a party that nobody really supports scupper the plans from the party everybody supports takes away from democracy IMO.

At the end of the day, the majority of people are not that annoyed and don't want the type of change you are pushing.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

At the end of the day, the majority of people are not that annoyed and don't want the type of change you are pushing.

At the end of the day people give out about how the country is run, the political perks, the never ending doom and gloom, the wasted millions, the opposition who slam the other parties only to get in the driving seat and drive the car the exact same way and in the same breath say "Sure what can we do?", "We have no one else to vote for", "they are all the same".

I think the people are fed up, i think the people are crying out for change, i think the people would make changes IF they had the power to do so, but they dont. Your vote counts for nothing and the one time you do vote, you vote wrong, your made vote again.

Democracy, yeah.....

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

At the end of the day people give out about how the country is run, the political perks, the never ending doom and gloom, the wasted millions, the opposition who slam the other parties only to get in the driving seat and drive the car the exact same way and in the same breath say "Sure what can we do?", "We have no one else to vote for", "they are all the same".

I think the people are fed up, i think the people are crying out for change, i think the people would make changes IF they had the power to do so, but they dont. Your vote counts for nothing and the one time you do vote, you vote wrong, your made vote again.

Democracy, yeah.....

Indeed they do, but they have a choice to vote a different party - they don't. They have a chance to demand change - they don't. They have a chance to go onto the streets and peacefully protest - they don't (or they rarely do, or scumbags take over etc).

Direct Democracy wont be the answer. People don't engage or understand politics enough in Ireland. Referendums show how peoples voice can be so easily lead astray.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Indeed they do, but they have a choice to vote a different party - they don't. They have a chance to demand change - they don't. They have a chance to go onto the streets and peacefully protest - they don't (or they rarely do, or scumbags take over etc).

Direct Democracy wont be the answer. People don't engage or understand politics enough in Ireland. Referendums show how peoples voice can be so easily lead astray.

Different car, same driving style evidence of this is noonan slamming the promissory notes saying they were robbing the poor to bail out the rich, he even went as far as saying it was, and i quote, an obscenity. What happen when he took over the driving seat?

We can demand all we like, we have no power to enforce change. This is the way politicians see it, say FG get voted out, they know in four years time when FF **** it up they will be put back in.

Protesting will also get you know where in this day and age, unless it hits the politicians pockets they couldnt give a ****. joan burton walked past a protest in the tower with a smile on her face, hogan stayed at home when he knew there was a protest at a water treatment plant.

Our opinions carry no weight and our votes carry even less.

If we had the power to recall any TD's that we feel are not performing or break promises then you would see change, but conveniently enough the citizens dont have that power.
DDI reinstates that power.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Different car, same driving style evidence of this is noonan slamming the promissory notes saying they were robbing the poor to bail out the rich, he even went as far as saying it was, and i quote, an obscenity. What happen when he took over the driving seat?

Elect any other party, and it will be business as usual. They know they will get away with it and that the electorate wont do nothing.

We can demand all we like, we have no power to enforce change. This is the way politicians see it, say FG get voted out, they know in four years time when FF **** it up they will be put back in.

Welcome to democracy. They have the power to vote out FF/FG in large numbers and protest demanding change. But they don't. Your complaining and wanting change but the majority of the people clearly do not see it your way.

Protesting will also get you know where in this day and age, unless it hits the politicians pockets they couldnt give a ****. joan burton walked past a protest in the tower with a smile on her face, hogan stayed at home when he knew there was a protest at a water treatment plant.

That's not a protest! lol. That's a tiny group of eejits causing trouble. If it didn't bother them, Hogan would have showed up. Of course Joan was going to smile, she wasn't going to look sad and beg for forgiveness now was she?

As for protesting that made change, well it appears according to today's report we have dodged the bullet (for now) on the potential breakup of WRH thanks to protests. This government reversed the cuts to OAPs alarm following protest. The last government reversed plans to means test medical cards for OAPs following protests.

People people DOES work. Plenty of proof that protests made changes, right across the world.

Our opinions carry no weight and our votes carry even less.

They clearly do, I have given two examples of where it has worked. There is only so much heat a government will take. Loads of examples of reversed policy following heat on TDs.

If we had the power to recall any TD's that we feel are not performing or break promises then you would see change, but conveniently enough the citizens dont have that power.
DDI reinstates that power.

That system wouldn't work. If that's the case, half the country wouldn't have a TD and Phil Hogan would remain in power.

Its the system that needs reform, and the Irish electorate, and not introducing a daft reform of how democracy works.

wellboytoo

Sully wrote: »

Elect any other party, and it will be business as usual. They know they will get away with it and that the electorate wont do nothing.



Welcome to democracy. They have the power to vote out FF/FG in large numbers and protest demanding change. But they don't. Your complaining and wanting change but the majority of the people clearly do not see it your way.



That's not a protest! lol. That's a tiny group of eejits causing trouble. If it didn't bother them, Hogan would have showed up. Of course Joan was going to smile, she wasn't going to look sad and beg for forgiveness now was she?

As for protesting that made change, well it appears according to today's report we have dodged the bullet (for now) on the potential breakup of WRH thanks to protests. This government reversed the cuts to OAPs alarm following protest. The last government reversed plans to means test medical cards for OAPs following protests.

People people DOES work. Plenty of proof that protests made changes, right across the world.



They clearly do, I have given two examples of where it has worked. There is only so much heat a government will take. Loads of examples of reversed policy following heat on TDs.



That system wouldn't work. If that's the case, half the country wouldn't have a TD and Phil Hogan would remain in power.

Its the system that needs reform, and the Irish electorate, and not introducing a daft reform of how democracy works.

Sully I checked there isn't a blue moon out tonight but I agree with you!
The system we have is banjaxed no doubt about it,and people are stupid ,
What should we do, lose PR ?
I really have not a clue but I am becoming disillusioned and disinterested in it all which is wrong I know but when you see the electorate flip floping like a fish in a boat every couple of years......

Hijpo

wellboytoo wrote: »

Sully I checked there isn't a blue moon out tonight but I agree with you!
The system we have is banjaxed no doubt about it,and people are stupid ,
What should we do, lose PR ?
I really have not a clue but I am becoming disillusioned and disinterested in it all which is wrong I know but when you see the electorate flip floping like a fish in a boat every couple of years......

So whos it going to be next time FF/FG coalition?
cant wait for that.

Not enough choice, not enough power to make change.

Sully

wellboytoo wrote: »

Sully I checked there isn't a blue moon out tonight but I agree with you!

Put back on those rose tinted glasses :P

The system we have is banjaxed no doubt about it,and people are stupid ,
What should we do, lose PR ?
I really have not a clue but I am becoming disillusioned and disinterested in it all which is wrong I know but when you see the electorate flip floping like a fish in a boat every couple of years......

Education is key. I was heavily involved in student politics and they didn't give ****s who was in power or what damage it did. The SU / USI protests end up being a drinking session. Most people hadn't a clue how politics worked, who anybody was (mixing up UK leaders with Taoiseach etc).

That plus a reform of how we do politics within the Dail.

Hijpo wrote: »

So whos it going to be next time FF/FG coalition?
cant wait for that.

Not enough choice, not enough power to make change.

Plenty of choice over the years, people rejected them (remember the Greens/PDs?). We have choice, we have power.

You can't just replace the current system with a more lobby based system because the electorate couldn't be arsed. Your actually going from bad to worse - the electorate don't perform any better in referendums so DDI will end up being a disaster.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Sinn Feins terrorism connections haven't gone away and they are sticking with their own batch of bad eggs. They don't seem to want to shake that image. Their polices are woeful and not even costed by the Department. Their solution is "Take from the pension fund and implement a wealth tax" which clearly doesn't work.

Bad eggs? And what would you call those clowns in power at the minute? Undermining our City Status, attempting to downgrade our hospital? And that's just in Waterford?

And how is this different to legalising an illegal gambling debt as FG/Lab have done? I'm no fan of the Shinners, but this current mob are such liars ("not one red cent"/"Labour's way" and other BS lies) I'd be prepared to give them a try. FF did some good? By bankrupting the country while appeasing banks and their PS cronies?

What is needed is a radical overhaul by an independent body. The signgs of how surreal Dail Eireann actually is was on display the night this "Government" sold this country out.

A bar open while the future of the country was being dismantled. Sweet Jesus. And boy did they show what they were when Pearse Doherty was speaking.

1. Number of TDs needs to be reduced to below 50. No need for four TDs in a county this size.

2. Slash their pay.

3. Slash their expenses.

When 2 & 3 are implemented they might actually be able to approach austerity with some degree of decorum. It beggars belief that - given what has occurred in this country in the past fortnight - that some people can still attempt to defend what has happened. Political parties before this nation. I will never - ever - understand it.

If the DDI principle is enforced we might stand a chance. But what you are now looking at is a possible FF/SF Government after the next election - for all FF's denials.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Direct Democracy wont be the answer. People don't engage or understand politics enough in Ireland. Referendums show how peoples voice can be so easily lead astray.

The smugness of that smiley face says it all. Don't bank on it. Stranger things have happened.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Put back on those rose tinted glasses :P



Education is key. I was heavily involved in student politics and they didn't give ****s who was in power or what damage it did. The SU / USI protests end up being a drinking session. Most people hadn't a clue how politics worked, who anybody was (mixing up UK leaders with Taoiseach etc).

That plus a reform of how we do politics within the Dail.




Plenty of choice over the years, people rejected them (remember the Greens/PDs?). We have choice, we have power.

You can't just replace the current system with a more lobby based system because the electorate couldn't be arsed. Your actually going from bad to worse - the electorate don't perform any better in referendums so DDI will end up being a disaster.

So you think that the people with all the power (its not us by the way) are going to change a system that benefits them completely? Thats even more absured than thinking people have a meaningful say on any of these moronic decisions, decisions that effect them the most and the crooks the least.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Elect any other party, and it will be business as usual. They know they will get away with it and that the electorate wont do nothing.

If people had more power to punish the politicians you wouldnt hear them making racist jokes (enda kenny) you wouldnt see them drunk on tv (cowan) you wouldnt witness them being condescending to a mother and her children (hogan) you wouldnt see corruption of them bumping clinics up a list with no explanation only to find out that it was benefiting one of there buddies (o rielly)

What can the people do? They obviously have the impression that nothing has an effect otherwise they would be doing something. In this day and age people shouldnt have to traipse up and down the quay to save a feckin hospital, likewise OAP alarms. This system gives the people more enforcment over the decisions that put them in difficulty. If you are so sure that half the country wouldnt have TD's if we could recall them then it shows how awful they are and how little power we have seen as they are all still in operation.

I think your of the opinion that if Direct democracy was implemented people would vote for abolishing all taxes and legalise heroin or something.

darkhorse

Hijpo wrote: »

If people had more power to punish the politicians you wouldnt hear them making racist jokes (enda kenny)

What!!! Enda Kenny racist. No way. I would not believe that for one minute.

Hijpo

Absolutely, article about it here

how insensitive can one man be eh?

Although that was 2002, hes probably changed :rolleyes:
Just like his morals on taxing a families home :pac: :pac: :pac:

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

If people had more power to punish the politicians you wouldnt hear them making racist jokes (enda kenny) you wouldnt see them drunk on tv (cowan) you wouldnt witness them being condescending to a mother and her children (hogan) you wouldnt see corruption of them bumping clinics up a list with no explanation only to find out that it was benefiting one of there buddies (o rielly)

Jesus, you really take seriously enough to bring it to such a daft level. People had the power not to vote for any of the above named individuals - they did. People had the power not to vote for any of the above named individuals parties - they did.

People have the people. Fact. Get over it and just admit that the system is there and the people don't give two hoots. I'm amazed that you think these politicians are not answerable to anybody and can do what they like - you appear to have this mental block that we don't vote for a government every five or so years (and in cases where people and political pressure is applied, earlier).

What can the people do? They obviously have the impression that nothing has an effect otherwise they would be doing something. In this day and age people shouldnt have to traipse up and down the quay to save a feckin hospital, likewise OAP alarms. This system gives the people more enforcment over the decisions that put them in difficulty. If you are so sure that half the country wouldnt have TD's if we could recall them then it shows how awful they are and how little power we have seen as they are all still in operation.

*facepalm* You have just proved my point - people are either to thick, lazy or couldn't be bothered when it comes to using their democratic right to make a vote. Anybody with a decent knowledge of politics knows the system is so daft that TDs are powerless as are Senators. Its not that they haven't the balls or couldn't be bothered - they don't actually have the power. Recall them, threaten to recall them - it won't make a difference unless the system changes.

I think your of the opinion that if Direct democracy was implemented people would vote for abolishing all taxes and legalise heroin or something.

LOL.

darkhorse wrote: »

What!!! Enda Kenny racist. No way. I would not believe that for one minute.

Wasn't really considered a racist remark at the time, it was a storm in a tea cup and once it was noted possible offense was caused - an apology was issued and the world moved on. He has been one of very few well respected Taoiseach internationally.

Hijpo wrote: »

Absolutely, article about it here

how insensitive can one man be eh?

Although that was 2002, hes probably changed :rolleyes:
Just like his morals on taxing a families home :pac: :pac: :pac:

Meanwhile, the opposition has a number of former terrorists and bomb makers in power and the OP doesn't see a problem.

darkhorse

Hijpo wrote: »

Absolutely, article about it here

how insensitive can one man be eh?

Although that was 2002, hes probably changed :rolleyes:
Just like his morals on taxing a families home :pac: :pac: :pac:

I apologize for doubting you.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Jesus, you really take seriously enough to bring it to such a daft level. People had the power not to vote for any of the above named individuals - they did. People had the power not to vote for any of the above named individuals parties - they did.

People have the people. Fact. Get over it and just admit that the system is there and the people don't give two hoots. I'm amazed that you think these politicians are not answerable to anybody and can do what they like - you appear to have this mental block that we don't vote for a government every five or so years (and in cases where people and political pressure is applied, earlier).

The people didnt want FF in charge anymore, so they voted them out, the only ones we could vote for was the other two troops of monkeys. You think people wanted FG and Lab in charge? not at all, they just wanted FF out. The government is not answerable to anyone, who did bertie answer to? is he still getting the handy pension? what about cowen? are you going to tell me those farcical tribunals are all we have?

Sully wrote: »

*facepalm* You have just proved my point - people are either to thick, lazy or couldn't be bothered when it comes to using their democratic right to make a vote. Anybody with a decent knowledge of politics knows the system is so daft that TDs are powerless as are Senators. Its not that they haven't the balls or couldn't be bothered - they don't actually have the power. Recall them, threaten to recall them - it won't make a difference unless the system changes.

keep face palming, you might knock some sense into yourself. If the TD's are powerless why is there 165 of them? Why doesnt the government cut the numbers and senators? because they are not going to screw themselfs, thats why. Enlighten me on how a citizen can use there democratic right to vote when the government decides what it is they vote on.

Sully wrote: »

LOL.

i laughed when i was thinking of it to

Sully wrote: »

Wasn't really considered a racist remark at the time, it was a storm in a tea cup and once it was noted possible offense was caused - an apology was issued and the world moved on. He has been one of very few well respected Taoiseach internationally.

If he had any kind of compassion he would not have made such a distasteful remark at ANY stage of his career. Anyone who extorts billions of euro and gives to the few would be respected by the few. You can be sure hes not well respected by the people hes taking the money from, unless your going to selectively ask a generation that has always voted FG and of course the people that have been raised by the generation that has always voted FG.

Sully wrote: »

Meanwhile, the opposition has a number of former terrorists and bomb makers in power and the OP doesn't see a problem.

Aaaannnndddnd i said i had no problem with terrorists where?

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

*facepalm* You have just proved my point - people are either to thick, lazy or couldn't be bothered when it comes to using their democratic right to make a vote. Anybody with a decent knowledge of politics knows the system is so daft that TDs are powerless as are Senators. Its not that they haven't the balls or couldn't be bothered - they don't actually have the power. Recall them, threaten to recall them - it won't make a difference unless the system changes.

Jesus Christ.:rolleyes: Facepalm indeed. Jim Kemmy, Tony Gregory, Jackie Healy Rae, Michael Lowry, etc, etc. They didn't buy into a "system" like the drones who defend it.

They bought into their constituents.

As any TD can.

If he/she has the backbone and morals to do so.