Thinking of joining Betfair..

Slattsy

Hey lads,

I'm sure most of you regular posters are avid users of Betfair.
I'm thinking of getting on the bandwagon, a few years late I know.

My main concern is getting the time that's needed to do the laying side of things and to get my head round it.

Anyone have some tips, information, generic rules of thumb, pros, cons for me?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Nulty

There used to be a sticky thread here about betfair. Search for it

Nulty

Doin it for the kids

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51131966

Slattsy

7 years ago. Jesus. Didn't realise it was around that long.

Thanks.

faoile@n

Why are you worried about the laying side of things?

You don't have to lay horses on betfair and most folk just use it to back horses.

Start off with small stakes buts its really a piece of piss you'll pick it up in now time.

I think betfair levels the playing field to an extent, many prices are so much better than the highstreet prices so your getting something approaching the true odds. Laying wise that makes things difficult, far from impossible though.

Advise wise, paper trade for hundreds and hundreds of events if you have a margin based strategy, for occasional use if you really fancy something and betfair is best price there's no reason not to avail.

Don't lay for the sake of it, the bigger prices, commission and premium charge make random laying not an option.

Slattsy

I'd love to get into the business of being able to lay a few horses.

Obviously i'll be doing more win bets than laying, but certain races i can call when i dont fancy a fav, i want to be able to lay em.

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

I'd love to get into the business of being able to lay a few horses.

Obviously i'll be doing more win bets than laying, but certain races i can call when i dont fancy a fav, i want to be able to lay em.

Yeah it's good for laying short price favs as you're not putting huge money at stake.

The automated 'cash out' option is absolutely awesome as well (whether you are backing or laying).

Stick it on your mobile and you'll never look back.

Slattsy

Can you give me an example of what 'cashing out' means?

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

Can you give me an example of what 'cashing out' means?

I do most of my betting on phone now so not sure how it works online.

If you back a horse it stands to reason that at any time you can lay it to either take a loss or profit (depending on which way the price has moved).

On the app it will tell you how much profit you stand to make if the horse wins (next to the selection) and there's a button at the top telling you how much you can take right now by laying off.

So if you back something and it shortens in-running or ante-post you can take a risk free profit at the touch of a button without having to do all the maths and manually lay it.

Even better if you've backed and laid all sorts it gives you the net figures on the market and you can still cash out to maximise profit.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I do most of my betting on phone now so not sure how it works online.

If you back a horse it stands to reason that at any time you can lay it to either take a loss or profit (depending on which way the price has moved).

On the app it will tell you how much profit you stand to make if the horse wins (next to the selection) and there's a button at the top telling you how much you can take right now by laying off.

So if you back something and it shortens in-running or ante-post you can take a risk free profit at the touch of a button without having to do all the maths and manually lay it.

Even better if you've backed and laid all sorts it gives you the net figures on the market and you can still cash out to maximise profit.

Oh and of course you can cut your losses as well. Which I tend to do more often than taking an early profit.

Slattsy

I get you.

I want to get the hang of laying horses before Cheltenham.

There's nothing to get the hang of really
Find the race, find the yoke you fancy to lose, click lay and enter how much you want to take, liability is displayed, you confirm and it'll be matched hopefully

Some of the lay prices mightnt be to your liking though

Slattsy

Who sets the lay price ?

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

Who sets the lay price ?

Nobody sets the price - it's a market.

Also another of the 'hidden' features of Betfair - if you want to lay something at 2/1 there's nothing stopping you asking for it. You might not get it, but if the horse touches 2/1 and there's enough demand you will.

Also for backing. Prices tend to fluctuate so if you're smart you can offer to back at 9/4 and if the price wavers around 2/1 and up and down a couple of points you'll get the best price you can. Of course if it shortens you'll get nothing.

Colonel Sanders

Slattsy wrote: »

Who sets the lay price ?

You do

However no guarantee someone will take it

eg I've often thought a horse around 5/4 might shorten & would be a lay at evs, say

I stick up a lay at evs (2.0). If the price shortens & someone is happy to back at 2.0 later in the day well & good if not my money is simply refunded

What's in the lay column is set by backers, whats in the back column is set by layers, the amounts available are displayed. You can set your own price and submit it and if the market moves sufficiently it'll be matched.

Slattsy

This is where i need to get my facts right, in what i can and cant do.


If I think a 6/4 shot is beatable, do i have the option to offer it at 7/4, 15/8, 2/1, 9/4 etc etc ?

Slattsy

I know Nulty linked me a thread on this, i just have not had a minute to read it in full.

Slattsy

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody sets the price - it's a market.

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

You do

2 different answers here to my question :
"Who sets the price" ?

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

This is where i need to get my facts right, in what i can and cant do.


If I think a 6/4 shot is beatable, do i have the option to offer it at 7/4, 15/8, 2/1, 9/4 etc etc ?

You can but why would you?

Graupel

Slattsy wrote: »

2 different answers here to my question :
"Who sets the price" ?

You set your price slattsy, If it isn't matched then your money is refunded.

Slattsy

Deleted User wrote: »

You can but why would you?

If PP price a horse up at 6/4 and i reckon it'll be beat.
So.... i offer €50 liability at 7/4 to entice someone to back it.

ft9

Best thing to do is join up have a look and do a few small lays to get the hang of it. It's really simple stuff, you could talk about it all day long.

youtube!

Deleted User wrote: »

I do most of my betting on phone now so not sure how it works online.

If you back a horse it stands to reason that at any time you can lay it to either take a loss or profit (depending on which way the price has moved).

On the app it will tell you how much profit you stand to make if the horse wins (next to the selection) and there's a button at the top telling you how much you can take right now by laying off.

So if you back something and it shortens in-running or ante-post you can take a risk free profit at the touch of a button without having to do all the maths and manually lay it.

Even better if you've backed and laid all sorts it gives you the net figures on the market and you can still cash out to maximise profit.

While the cashout option is handy you would be mad to use it on a regular basis, BF take a little bite out of your winnings every time,just cash out manually yourself,they get enough commission!

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

What's in the lay column is set by backers, whats in the back column is set by layers, the amounts available are displayed. You can set your own price and submit it and if the market moves sufficiently it'll be matched.

Slattsy wrote: »

2 different answers here to my question :
"Who sets the price" ?

Slattsy

RoverJames wrote: »

You and your faces!

Colonel Sanders

You decide what price you want to back & lay at

The prices furthest the right of the blue side and furthest to the left of the pink side are the shortest prices currently on offer to back/lay

If you want a bigger price to back or you are only willing to lay at shorter you put up the price and stake you want. Of course there is no guarantee someone else will want to play at the odds you want to

You can cancel it at any time as long as it hasn't been matched.

Also remember if you lay at 2-1 you are actually laying at 2.11/1, you are risking 200 to win 100 if it loses but will then pay commission if up to 5% on your winnings. Starts at 5% and then decreases the more you turn over

You lay a horse at 2-1, risk 200 to win 100. You then pay 5% commission so in effect you are risking 200 to win 95 so actually laying at just under 2.11/1

cack_handed

Key question: you need to ask yourself why you want to lay horses. Is it because you believe you will be good at it and have an edge or you think it might be an easy route to consistent profit? If its the latter then I would advise caution, especially when it comes to Cheltenham.
Because its so much easier, in theory, to pick a loser than a winner, people assume that laying is the way to make big money. This is dangerous thinking in my experience, if you stick with only laying short priced horses and are disciplined, then no worries, but if you're laying longer priced ones, you need to keep a very healthy strike-rate to stay alive. Not good for blood pressure if you've laid a 10/1 shot for loads and it scoots 5 lengths clear coming into the straight!!

Anyway, it doesn't have to be that way, and not trying to put anyone off. Just it can be a dangerous game if you're not clear about what you are trying to do is all i'm saying

eddiezero

Cack handed is quite accurate in his assessment of laying.

Most layers on Betfair are skint, backers are the ones who are in clover.

cack_handed

i'd qualify that a small bit eddie by saying most successful layers on betfair are those that have a decent bit of stable information behind them, you can't but look at some of the conspicuous drifts on the markets - way out of synch with the on-course layers - and not conclude that certain well connected people aren't having it off big time. Particularly so on the rancid all weather stuff thats been dominating racing screens over the past few weeks