Payday Moneylenders.

ancapailldorcha

I was at work today when more of these horrible people were advertising on the radio. I know it's easy to say that people know what they're letting themselves in for but when you're desperate you'll grab at any shred of hope you can get, even if it means making things worse long term.
Anyway, are these big in Ireland? Are there many of them peddling quick loans to the desperate?

Cookie_Monster

they should be made illegal, if you need to borrow money like that then you have far bigger problems than simply making it a few days to payday.

galwayrush

Silly loans for extremely stupid people.

efb

Desperate people, call the credit union, I feel for people who turn to these.

Pottler

Hmm. Ye've all checked out your repayment schedule on your Mortagages, havn't ye. It'd be mad if you borrowed, say €180k for your house and ended up repaying €360k+, wouldn't it. Mad but normal. Be careful what you decry as "outrageous". BTW, I think both mortgage repayments and payday loans are both total usury. I mean, what sort of an eejit would pay three hundred and sixty thousand euros back for just borrowing 180k? That's an extra 180K...€180,000.00. I doubt too many "eejits" are paying back that much on a payday loan. Just be careful where you draw your line of what "outrageous" repayments are... It's no good looking down your nose at a single mother who pays back €500 interest on a €100 loan if you are paying back hundreds of thousands...

weldoninhio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I was at work today when more of these horrible people were advertising on the radio. I know it's easy to say that people know what they're letting themselves in for but when you're desperate you'll grab at any shred of hope you can get, even if it means making things worse long term.
Anyway, are these big in Ireland? Are there many of them peddling quick loans to the desperate?

You'll also hear ads for pubs, clubs, the vinters association etc, but these companies are horrible people for giving loans to people that otherwise wouldn't get them?? What a pathetic country this has become, when companies are castigated because some people are too weak-willed to know/realise they can't afford something and go ahead with it anyway.

hfallada

Most states have banned them in the US or are highly regulated. Their interest rates are far higher than loan sharks. Like some of them are 4 figure percentage interest rates.

They should be banned here or only allowed to charge an interest rate which is reasonable.

ancapailldorcha

There was a discussion on Radio 4 today about the UK government going to introduce a cap on how much one person can owe. It's disgusting that they can expect to get 10 times their investment for doing absolutely no work at all.

hfallada

Pottler wrote: »

Hmm. Ye've all chaecked out your repayment schedule on your Mortagages, havn't ye. It'd be mad if you borrowed, say €180k for your house and ended up repaying €360k+, wouldn't it. Mad but normal. Be careful what you decry as "outrageous". BTW, I think both mortgage repayments and payday loans are both total usury.

But that's because your have a high interest rate and are spreading your payments over so many years. For the first tens of years your paying pure interest and a tiny amount of capital. Even an extra repayment per year can knock several years off your mortgage.

Boombastic

Kerry Katonia is advertising a new one for the ladies. Interest rates are over 2000%,..says it all really


Budget people, budget and stay away from these shysters

ancapailldorcha

Boombastic wrote: »

Kerry Katonia is advertising a new one for the ladies. Interest rates are over 2000%,..says it all really


Budget people, budget and stay away from these shysters

Not easy when you earn bugger all a week and the heating bill needs to be paid.

Pottler

hfallada wrote: »

But that's because your have a high interest rate and are spreading your payments over so many years. For the first tens of years your paying pure interest and a tiny amount of capital. Even an extra repayment per year can knock several years off your mortgage.

Riiight. It's grand so. I thought it was just a great way to rip people off for their entire lives, but obviously I am dead wrong. I'd imagine your cozy explanation as to why peoples pensions are worth feck all is just as smooth and easy. People who's income in life is derived from handling/borrowing other people money tend to be cnuts in my opinion, but then I'm just a contrary type. If it's ok, I'll stay that way though.:)

Just to clarify a bit, I went through a major pension providers training course to be one of their Pension advisers, they came to me btw, because I'm a rather good salesman. I completed it, then politely declined the job offer. I've better things to do with my life than live as a parasite off other peoples hard earned money. Which, IMO, is what the personal finance industry is largely all about. Seeing the inside workings did nothing to shake that view. I'd be embarrased to make my living that way, parasitic is the only word as far as I'm concerned.

Boombastic

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Not easy when you earn bugger all a week and the heating bill needs to be paid.

So it's better to borrow money at such a high interest rate, that'll leave you in a better position.:rolleyes:

Instead of owning just the amount of the heating bill, you now owe multiple times that?

Always after Christmas we hear of horror stories of people who got these sort of loans to cover the presents etc. Did they not know christmas was coming?


Cut back or do without

ancapailldorcha

Well no, but your thinking changes when you get desperate.

kneemos

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Not easy when you earn bugger all a week and the heating bill needs to be paid.

If you can make payments on a loan you can save for your heating.

homeandabroad

There seems to be a lot more advertising for these companies in the UK than Ireland, any of the ads you see here are for british companies. I am not sure how much business they have here TBH. There has been a lot of reporting recently of loansharks preying on the desperate here and the exorbitant amount people have to repay them, which amounts to the same exploitation but with a bigger threat of violence.

There have always been these vultures, preying on the weak and vulnerable. Unfortunately the State doesn't seem to think it should do much about it and the way the banks are going they will be the only source of lending for any of us soon.

Cantona's Collars

Watched a program on BBC about these sharks.One poor woman was taking out a loan with one crowd simply to pay a loan she'd gotten from another shower.She said it simply took ten minutes to get a loan approved & walk out the door with cash.The interest rate was nearly 2000%

They should be banned.There's uproar in the UK as they are advertising during kids programs to target stay at home mothers.

homeandabroad

Being able to access credit is fundamental to everyone, but there are some people the banks won't deal with (or vice versa?) and no economy can function without good access to credit, as we know so well here. Loaning money is not necessarily a bad thing (and no, I don't work in finance). Some people live from hand to mouth and don't have a culture of saving. They probably need help managing their money and it is the height of irony that they are the first pick for moneysharks as they are usually the last to understand interest rates.

I have long been of the opinion that some people need to be "protected" from our financial system in all it's forms. The financial crash proved this point as a lot of people should never have taken out the massive mortgages they did. So it's not just payday loan companies we need to be wary of.

PrettyBoy

Boombastic wrote: »

Kerry Katonia is advertising a new one for the ladies. Interest rates are over 2000%,..says it all really

What else would you expect from that slapper, she'll do anything for money/attention.

Bankrupt, drug-addict, unfit parent is now the face of a payday moneylenders...seems legit :rolleyes:

dj jarvis

i saw a rate of 4250 % on one of these ads

did the financial regulator in the UK not look at these operations and laugh?

but becasue if your are only ripping poor and somewhat stupid people off, a interest rate of 4250% is fine and dandy :mad:

There was a big scandal here about 20/30 years ago about illegal moneylenders, on the criminal edge, and I believe the legal business has been tightly regulated since. TBH they are lending to people that can't borrow anywhere else and with a credit rating of zilch. The rates are high because of this and because the amounts lent are usually relatively small relating to the fixed expenses.

In an ideal world these people would be SAVING in the credit union but unfortunately thats not the way it is.

We can use the same analogy for credit card companies. The rates there are crazy as well (though not as crazy).

Retrovertigo

They're not such a big deal in Ireland. As fair as I know there is only one that operates and they call to you home each week to collect the installments.

With regards to UK Market, once you default and let the lender know then the interest is frozen and an arrangement is made to pay between the lender and client so technically speaking no one is ever charged 2000% interest. These are payday loans after all and most of the time need to be paid by your next pay date. The major problem is people taking out unsecured loans from a number of different lenders and then realising they can't afford to repay them, so borrow more again and juggle between the various lenders.

There should most definitely be a camp on the amount that they can borrow but that's easier said then done as who exactly is going to regulate it?

Pottler

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a big scandal here about 20/30 years ago about illegal moneylenders, on the criminal edge, and I believe the legal business has been tightly regulated since. TBH they are lending to people that can't borrow anywhere else and with a credit rating of zilch. The rates are high because of this and because the amounts lent are usually relatively small relating to the fixed expenses.

In an ideal world these people would be SAVING in the credit union but unfortunately thats not the way it is.

We can use the same analogy for credit card companies. The rates there are crazy as well (though not as crazy).

Hmm on the first bit. On the second bit, I've a Credit card, spend a bomb on it. Don't pay any interest. Couldn't function without it. Also wouldn't function without it. The two are different, one is a ride no matter what, one is a ride if you let it be.

the groutch

I think the legal APR limit in Ireland is about 150%.
Still very high, but it means that you'll never have the payday loans companies like those in the UK.

The Road Runner

Well this is a new one now but to be expected after the rise in the amount of those cash for gold type of places like vultures. these two types of places are everywhere in the states. all smiles till it goes wrong for you

Where To

I don't really blame the moneylenders tbh, they wouldn't exist if people weren't silly enough to use them.

The Road Runner

Where To wrote: »

I don't really blame the moneylenders tbh, they wouldn't exist if people weren't silly enough to use them.

In general theres two types of people who use them, people who are desperate and people who use them to juggle funds a bit and can manage it well. with the former it can easily lead to tears

c_man

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they should be made illegal

Yeah, who's ever heard of illegal moneylenders.

A quick google of "payday loans uk" produced 25 million hits! some of them bury the APR in the small print, they make it so easy to become hooked as once you're paying these loans, you've less money for other things and more likely to borrow more and more until you need to declare bankruptcy or go for an IVA.

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

Hmm. Ye've all checked out your repayment schedule on your Mortagages, havn't ye.

I don't have one, off you trot

That's an extra 180K...€180,000.00. I doubt too many "eejits" are paying back that much on a payday loan.

They pay back in excess of 100%. The APR on places like wonga.com is over 4,000%. Compared to 100%, yeah, it's still insane.

Pottler

The Road Runner wrote: »

In general theres two types of people who use them, people who are desperate and people who use them to juggle funds a bit and can manage it well. with the former it can easily lead to tears

I can handle it, honest. Sounds a bit like somthing an alcoholic/gambler would say. Not aimed at you Road runner, just saying, like.

Pottler

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't have one, off you trot


They pay back in excess of 100%. The APR on places like wonga.com is over 4,000%. Compared to 100%, yeah, it's still insane.

Me either. The sums involved make any interest rate pretty moot. What's the "off you trot" bit in aid of?

phasers

my Dad has used moneylenders a few times, they gave him a grand and he paid back 1300 over 6 months. It covered the mortgage and whatever else he was behind on, but he was basically throwing 300 quid away.

after I annoyed him for 2 years he finally went to MABS and organised a payment plan through the Credit Union. there is help out there for people who are struggling.

Having said that though, I'm not completely against these companies, when properly regulated. For people who can't afford to save and some unexpected expense comes up, like a broken boiler in winter, there aren't many options available aside from these lenders.

miller50841

There is the provident that have been lending for years at the same thing.

As others have said they prey on the poor and get rich off them.

There was a programme on the BBC recently and they got inside one of these loan companies and it showed how they are trained to push loans as they work on commision.

They were preying on mostly pensioners and of course the Christmas market.
As others have said if you can't afford it do without and I can't under stand people who think they must get everything new and have to get so much expensive gifts foir kids and that and you hear them on the radio saying they have no problem buying stolen property its just a never ending vicious circle.

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

Me either. The sums involved make any interest rate pretty moot. What's the "off you trot" bit in aid of?

Being flippant and silly

Pottler

bluewolf wrote: »

Being flippant and silly

You were or I was? I usually am, you're usually not.:D

My name is URL

They're not all as bad as one another. I've heard both good and bad things about different companies.

Some of them are approved by the CCA and new regulations require them to act reasonably and remain in correspondence with you (via post) about your account. With the likes of Provident you can get a €200 loan repayable over 26 weeks at a cost of €60, which is still a lot; but not as nightmarish as people make out. Plus the people you deal with will be local to where you live, and not some shady unknown character. If it's a choice between that and going without having my car fixed or whatever, I know which I'd choose.

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

You were or I was? I usually am, you're usually not.:D

I was!
I also wanted to point out that some of us find the payday things silly but also don't have mortgages.

Cliona99

Even if the APR is capped in Ireland, you can still get into serious difficulties very quickly with these loans.

From one company's website:

"Representative example:
€500 loan repayable over 52 weeks
52 weekly payments of €15.00
Rate of interest 56.0% p.a. fixed;
Representative 157.3% APR
Total Amount Payable is €780"

In the UK the agreement you sign sometimes gives them access to your bank account, so if you fall behind on repayments they'll take the total you owe them as soon as it's there.

Retrovertigo

Cliona99 wrote: »

In the UK the agreement you sign sometimes gives them access to your bank account, so if you fall behind on repayments they'll take the total you owe them as soon as it's there.

They can't keep trying on your account, only on the specified date agreed and then subsequently on the next calender month/pay date. Doing otherwise is a fast way for the lender to get into hot water with the regulator and will also racket up bank charges for bounced direct debits on the account.

Another interesting thing to note is that direct debits have a priority when it comes to a company requesting funds from an account. For example a DD from a reputable company would be far higher up the list of being honoured first as opposed to a payday loan company.

Graupel

miller50841 wrote: »

There is the provident that have been lending for years at the same thing.

As others have said they prey on the poor and get rich off them.

There was a programme on the BBC recently and they got inside one of these loan companies and it showed how they are trained to push loans as they work on commision.

They were preying on mostly pensioners and of course the Christmas market.
As others have said if you can't afford it do without and I can't under stand people who think they must get everything new and have to get so much expensive gifts foir kids and that and you hear them on the radio saying they have no problem buying stolen property its just a never ending vicious circle.

I use provident a good bit whenever I'm stuck and unless your a complete tool with no concept of looking after money they are nothing like those companies in england. There APR is 153% which is a lot but the repayments are spread out and easy to manage.

Most of the time you'll know the person collecting the money so there's nothing intimidating about it all. If you miss a repayment or don't have it on you some weeks it's not a bother.

Senna

The lending mechanism itself isn't bad, even with 4000% APR. If you are using it for €100 for a night out on a Saturday but you aren't paid until Tuesday, you'll only pay €10, which if done once in a blue moon is fine.
The problem is desperate people who probably know they cant paid it back will borrow from them and of course lead to months of misery.

Pottler

Pottler wrote: »

Hmm. Ye've all checked out your repayment schedule on your Mortagages, havn't ye. It'd be mad if you borrowed, say €180k for your house and ended up repaying €360k+, wouldn't it. Mad but normal. Be careful what you decry as "outrageous". BTW, I think both mortgage repayments and payday loans are both total usury. I mean, what sort of an eejit would pay three hundred and sixty thousand euros back for just borrowing 180k? That's an extra 180K...€180,000.00. I doubt too many "eejits" are paying back that much on a payday loan. Just be careful where you draw your line of what "outrageous" repayments are... It's no good looking down your nose at a single mother who pays back €500 interest on a €100 loan if you are paying back hundreds of thousands...

There are even bigger eejit's out there who have a monthly repayment around the same or even higher every month called rent. Imagine, paying out loads of money every month to pay someone elses mortgage and then after doing it for 20 to 30 years, well just keep doing it for another 20 or 30 years, if you can that is. All the while the "eejit" paying their mortgage is laughing away in their own house with no costs other than up keep.

anncoates

Pottler wrote: »

BTW, I think both mortgage repayments and payday loans are both total usury.[/SIZE] I mean, what sort of an eejit would pay three hundred and sixty thousand euros back for just borrowing 180k? .

Do you know any other way of getting a quick bank loan of 180k to buy a house by the way?

Boombastic

Senna wrote: »

The lending mechanism itself isn't bad, even with 4000% APR. If you are using it for €100 for a night out on a Saturday but you aren't paid until Tuesday, you'll only pay €10, which if done once in a blue moon is fine.
The problem is desperate people who probably know they cant paid it back will borrow from them and of course lead to months of misery.

Borrowing money to go out on a Sat:eek:

Spending €100 on a Sat night out when you are broke:eek:



Either don't go out or only spend a fraction of that on the night out.

@ Anncoates - Why would you need a quick €180K to buy a house? rent

pcardin

Gianna Magnificent Splinter wrote: »

There are even bigger eejit's out there who have a monthly repayment around the same or even higher every month called rent. Imagine, paying out loads of money every month to pay someone elses mortgage and then after doing it for 20 to 30 years, well just keep doing it for another 20 or 30 years, if you can that is. All the while the "eejit" paying their mortgage is laughing away in their own house with no costs other than up keep.

ah not this crap again :mad:

flutered

kneemos wrote: »

If you can make payments on a loan you can save for your heating.

when one is on a low income, no amount of saving can be done, one can budget all they like, but a sick person in the house throws all that out the window, a broken washing machine, a broken dryer in this weather, unless one lives in or has lived in that type of situation then one cannot realise the reality and the gravity of things, has any one posting here, advising people to save, sat down and cryied at the impossibility of something, until you have then please do not pontificate, instead of advising people who havent a hope in hell to save, give a small donation to a charity which helps people that really need.

harry Bailey esq

the groutch wrote: »

I think the legal APR limit in Ireland is about 150%.
Still very high, but it means that you'll never have the payday loans companies like those in the UK.

a well known credit company I've dealt with charge 187.5 per cent apr. a typical loan would be across 26 weeks,with 30 quid interest for every 100 borrowed

anncoates

Boombastic wrote: »

@ Anncoates - Why would you need a quick €180K to buy a house? rent

That's not the point.

Gianna Magnificent Splinter

Gianna Magnificent Splinter wrote: »

There are even bigger eejit's out there who have a monthly repayment around the same or even higher every month called rent. Imagine, paying out loads of money every month to pay someone elses mortgage and then after doing it for 20 to 30 years, well just keep doing it for another 20 or 30 years, if you can that is. All the while the "eejit" paying their mortgage is laughing away in their own house with no costs other than up keep.

I thought this crap died out with the Celtic Tiger. It's thanks to attitudes like this why so many people took out mortgages that they hadn't a hope in hell of repaying.

Pottler

Gianna Magnificent Splinter wrote: »

There are even bigger eejit's out there who have a monthly repayment around the same or even higher every month called rent. Imagine, paying out loads of money every month to pay someone elses mortgage and then after doing it for 20 to 30 years, well just keep doing it for another 20 or 30 years, if you can that is. All the while the "eejit" paying their mortgage is laughing away in their own house with no costs other than up keep.

Err, I don't pay rent. I actually own my house. Lots of them as it happens. I buy them. Using money. Money I earn. Mad concept, I know. And it's not their "own house", it's the banks. Stop paying the mortgage and the owner will come calling asking wtf. And I've been stony, flat broke, so I'm not slagging anyone off about borrowing from money lenders, or advising them to save. I'm saying, if you are "middle class", and you have a mortgage, don't be too quick to slag people off as dumb for borrowing from these parasitic lenders, you're not so much better yourself.