Loyalist warns the PSNI; We are coming after you.

SoulandForm

Loyalism not interested in basic human principles of justice towards their non-Unionist neighbours, seems to believe that it can halt the political consequences of demographic change in Northern Ireland which it regards as a grave injustice and is outraged that the PSNI would get in the way of them expressing their "Loyalty" but well breaking the law. How long before Loyalists go back towards full blown terrorism?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/loyalist-speaker-warns-psni-we-are-coming-after-you-16266842.html

iDave

Now they're trying to use Parachute Regiment flags in Derry. Shame on them but this does give a good insight into the Loyalist mindset

SoulandForm

http://www.loyalistcommissionforideologicaleducation.00freehost.com/stateofsociety.htm

http://www.loyalistcommissionforideologicaleducation.00freehost.com/stateofsocietytwo.htm

The above gives a very good insight into Loyalist thinking.

Thomas_I

SoulandForm wrote: »

Loyalism not interested in basic human principles of justice towards their non-Unionist neighbours, seems to believe that it can halt the political consequences of demographic change in Northern Ireland which it regards as a grave injustice and is outraged that the PSNI would get in the way of them expressing their "Loyalty" but well breaking the law. How long before Loyalists go back towards full blown terrorism?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/loyalist-speaker-warns-psni-we-are-coming-after-you-16266842.html

Mr Nicholl said: “The police had better learn that you don't batter Protestants and get away with it. We will be coming after you.
“You are not the RUC — you are the IRA.”

While calling for future protests to be peaceful, loyalist victims campaigner Willie Frazer also warned that there was still the potential for trouble.
He directed much of what he said to the Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness.
“I say this to ‘Machine Gun’ Martin, and those who are hunting down the paratroopers, ‘Who is hunting down Martin?’
“Martin and Gerry (Adams) will never take this country from us. We need to keep this peaceful, but just because we are keeping it peaceful we are not saying we are afraid to fight.
“We are not going to be walked on and that goes for the Provos and the PSNI.
“If you want a fight we will give it to you,” the victims rights campaigner said.
Following a number of shouts of ‘no surrender' after Mr Nicholl’s speech, the crowd dispersed peacefully.

Now as W. Frazer has had to call off his "protest march" on Dublin, he´s still yearning for audience and stirring trouble. The other "hatepreacher" seems to be his willing disciple.

Hopefully, the PSNI will "never give in" to such people and threats. The allegation of similarities between the PSNI and the IRA is just pure nonsense and shows that such people like Fazer and Nicholl are living in their own and self-created illusionary "reality".

Thomas_I

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://www.loyalistcommissionforideologicaleducation.00freehost.com/stateofsociety.htm

http://www.loyalistcommissionforideologicaleducation.00freehost.com/stateofsocietytwo.htm

The above gives a very good insight into Loyalist thinking.

After a short overview and reading a few lines, I decided to not bother myself with this rubbish.

Despite that, the name "Loyalist Commission for ideological education" speaks for itself. The "masters of indoctrination" at work.

I wouldn´t be surprised to find something similar on republican websites that equals the links in the quotation as the loyalists counterpart.

Some progressive suggestions for the future:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21237941

woodoo

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://www.loyalistcommissionforideologicaleducation.00freehost.com/stateofsociety.htm

http://www.loyalistcommissionforideologicaleducation.00freehost.com/stateofsocietytwo.htm

The above gives a very good insight into Loyalist thinking.

I skimmed through it. Awful rubbish / primary school grade propaganda.

A lot of paranoia going in in the loyalist community by the looks of it.

junder

woodoo wrote: »

I skimmed through it. Awful rubbish / primary school grade propaganda.

A lot of paranoia going in in the loyalist community by the looks of it.

There goes those generlisations again, this document has been produced by a group even I have never heard of and I'm from the unionists community. Same goes for the ex uprg member in Londonderry, don't know him and he does not speak for me

guinnessdrinker

woodoo wrote: »

Awful rubbish / primary school grade propaganda.

Primary school students would not write such drivel.

Couple of quotes from the article:

"The present arrangement of our societal structure cannot endure, indeed it should not be allowed to endure and all sections of Loyalism should strive to ensure that it does not endure by whatever means necessary."

"The project of the state, while not in accord with that of the hidden hands, has converged so as to enable the hidden hands to attempt to use the state as their indirect instrument."

"All such factors can only lead to a state system that little more than the direct instrument of all those that work moves against the Loyalist people."

Thankfully, the majority of people from a Unionist background do not subscribe to this type of propaganda.

riffmongous

Thomas_I wrote: »

Some progressive suggestions for the future:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21237941

I saw this today, its somewhat heartening to see there are some people at least interested in trying to change things for the better.

GRMA

woodoo wrote: »

I skimmed through it. Awful rubbish / primary school grade propaganda.

A lot of paranoia going in in the loyalist community by the looks of it.

Thats what loyalists have always been about.

Jelle1880

One person (who doesn't represent any major group on the extreme side of Loyalism) doesn't mean anything.
I highly doubt he has any real influence and is just playing himself up.

Is this the same David Nicholl btw who was accused by Ken Kerr (former leading UDA member) of collaborating with the IRA to have him killed ?

As for some of those links: Yeah, they give a great insight in the mindset of hundreds of thousands of people :rolleyes:

.jacksparrow.

If I can't start a thread I think its relevant here


http://youtu.be/VzicItrLa1k

fasttalkerchat

Didn't see the point in making a new thread for this either... most will have seen it on facebook anyway.

For anyone who doesn't know, this is PUP member and loyalist spokesman for the riots (peacefuw pwotests) Jamie Bryson:

Thomas_I

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Didn't see the point in making a new thread for this either... most will have seen it on facebook anyway.

For anyone who doesn't know, this is PUP member and loyalist spokesman for the riots (peacefuw pwotests) Jamie Bryson:

I recognise this guy from the Nolan Show and the pictures here are really astonishing. Does that mean that he´s not one of the "die-hard" unionists? I wonder what his pals might say about these pictures.

SoulandForm

Jamie Bryson isnt a PUP member- he is more extreme than them.

But honestly the photos shouldnt come as a shock. There is a photo of Willie Frazer at an All-Ireland hurling final in Croke Park when he was younger floating around the internet.

GRMA

All you can do is laugh really

SoulandForm

He got involved with this ex-glue sniffer "Pastor" who organized this protest called "Prods in the Park" (Im deadly serious- that is what he called it) to protest "Proms in the Park" for ignoring Loyalist "culture" or being to middle class or something who obviously perverted his soul and created a monster. It seems that he has fallen out with Willie Frazer and that Loyalists are now questioning his authority because he shook Martin Mc Guinness's hand once.

SoulandForm

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/loyalists_threaten_proms_protest_1_2898292

North Down Council is almost completely Unionist.

junder

Thomas_I wrote: »

I recognise this guy from the Nolan Show and the pictures here are really astonishing. Does that mean that he´s not one of the "die-hard" unionists? I wonder what his pals might say about these pictures.

Protestant has catholic friends, shock horror

Thomas_I

junder wrote: »

Protestant has catholic friends, shock horror

I don´t have a problem with that at all. My remark to that picture wasn´t ironic or something else. My question was serious and personally I regard that picture as an sign of progress.

everdead.ie

junder wrote: »

Protestant has catholic friends, shock horror

I don't think the point they are making has anything to do with being a protestant.

It's to do with a Unionist who is deemed "hard-line" seen with things normally associated with the Nationalist community.


I don't Understand why people keep making these descriptions "Prods in the Park", "Protestant Unionist" it really just looks like they have no interest in including Catholic Unionists in their vision of Northern Ireland and imo weakening their cause?

kopkidda

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151447579656079&set=vb.439581669430547&type=2&theater

GRMA

junder wrote: »

Protestant has catholic friends, shock horror

Dont play dumb, thats not what people are laughing at but the fact he is proudly posing with an erin go bragh flag(1798 rebels among others used it) as well as a hurley with the tricolor on it


Then you have him recently giving out about the DUP and making himself out to be a real hardliner

TBH my opinion about him has changed, if he was a dyed in the wool loyalist or a bigot he would never have took those pictures


Looks like someone has got their hooks into the young lad

GRMA

kopkidda wrote: »

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151447579656079&set=vb.439581669430547&type=2&theater

Animals

Thomas_I

GRMA wrote: »

Dont play dumb, thats not what people are laughing at but the fact he is proudly posing with an erin go bragh flag(1798 rebels among others used it) as well as a hurley with the tricolor on it

That´s the progress. But I don´t know when this picture was taken.

GRMA wrote: »

Then you have him recently giving out about the DUP and making himself out to be a real hardliner

Maybe this is his "official appearance"(?)

GRMA wrote: »

TBH my opinion about him has changed, if he was a dyed in the wool loyalist or a bigot he would never have took those pictures

Looks like someone has got their hooks into the young lad

He may speak on official occations for the UPF like on the Nolan Show and in private has a different view on the matter. Anyway that´s not of my concern.

W. Frazer is as well a member of the UPF and they´re both interviewed as to see in that BBC News video regarding further flag-protests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21275947

junder

GRMA wrote: »

Dont play dumb, thats not what people are laughing at but the fact he is proudly posing with an erin go bragh flag(1798 rebels among others used it) as well as a hurley with the tricolor on it


Then you have him recently giving out about the DUP and making himself out to be a real hardliner

TBH my opinion about him has changed, if he was a dyed in the wool loyalist or a bigot he would never have took those pictures


Looks like someone has got their hooks into the young lad

Would that be the same flag and motto used by the ulster unionist council at its botanic garden conference back in the late 1800's?

GRMA

junder wrote: »

Would that be the same flag and motto used by the ulster unionist council at its botanic garden conference back in the late 1800's?

I wouldnt know, but he's in an Irish bar holding the flag with a guy in a ROI top its clear what the context is , its not a homage to a UUC council in the late 1800s.

What about the hurley?

I've no problem with him having/doing these things but your lot do/will which is why it is very funny.

Sure people are angry at him for apparently shaking Martys hand (better than than the English queen eh?) and they arent happy with these pictures at all, hysterical how his defenders have come up with all sorts of theories and excuses to mitagate this (like you have) rather than just take them at face value and say that its ok for him to have had these pictures taken they dont matter

But the loyalist community is too paranoid, reactive and unaccepting to do that

junder

GRMA wrote: »

I wouldnt know, but he's in an Irish bar holding the flag with a guy in a ROI top its clear what the context is , its not a homage to a UUC council in the late 1800s.

What about the hurley?

I've no problem with him having/doing these things but your lot do/will which is why it is very funny.

Sure people are angry at him for apparently shaking Martys hand (better than than the English queen eh?) and they arent happy with these pictures at all, hysterical how his defenders have come up with all sorts of theories and excuses to mitagate this (like you have) rather than just take them at face value and say that its ok for him to have had these pictures taken they dont matter

But the loyalist community is too paranoid, reactive and unaccepting to do that

The context is not clear for all we know he just having a laugh with a mate. I have photos of a catholic mate posing with my Abod colleret on, we where having a few beers and it was a laugh among mates.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

The context is not clear for all we know he just having a laugh with a mate. I have photos of a catholic mate posing with my Abod colleret on, we where having a few beers and it was a laugh among mates.

You are deliberately missing the point.

The point isnt whether he was having a laugh or not- the point is that the way so many Loyalists have reacted this shows that they are dangerous bigots.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

You are deliberately missing the point.

The point isnt whether he was having a laugh or not- the point is that the way so many Loyalists have reacted this shows that they are dangerous bigots.

Quite a few people on this thread seem to have an issue with it, in fact the only person who couldn't care less about the photos is me, the only loyalist posting on this thread. So he had a Hurley bat, so he held up the Erin go broagh flag, so what?

woodoo

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Didn't see the point in making a new thread for this either... most will have seen it on facebook anyway.

For anyone who doesn't know, this is PUP member and loyalist spokesman for the riots (peacefuw pwotests) Jamie Bryson:

I wouldn't see these photos as anything other than a bit of banter, especially the one with the hurley. If i was on hols and someone had an orange sash or a lam-beg drum i'd lift it and have a go for the craic.

kabakuyu

woodoo wrote: »

I wouldn't see these photos as anything other than a bit of banter, especially the one with the hurley. If i was on hols and someone had an orange sash or a lam-beg drum i'd lift it and have a go for the craic.

Nail on the head.I always wanted to try a bowler for a laugh.:)

SoulandForm

woodoo wrote: »

I wouldn't see these photos as anything other than a bit of banter, especially the one with the hurley. If i was on hols and someone had an orange sash or a lam-beg drum i'd lift it and have a go for the craic.

Apparently he has an Irish passport. His family arent bigots at all.

His whole "Loyalism" is a reaction to breaking up with a girlfriend.

He could genuinely be suffering from a manic depressive high.

GRMA

SoulandForm wrote: »

Apparently he has an Irish passport. His family arent bigots at all.

His whole "Loyalism" is a reaction to breaking up with a girlfriend.

He could genuinely be suffering from a manic depressive high.

Thats what it looks like, desperate for acceptance and something to fill that void he fell in with the wrong crowd and they have poisoned his mind.

Hopefully he will cop on.

junder

Think it's been mentioned on find thread bit to clarify, Jamie is not a member of the pup

fasttalkerchat

GRMA wrote: »

Thats what it looks like, desperate for acceptance and something to fill that void he fell in with the wrong crowd and they have poisoned his mind.

Hopefully he will cop on.

Same with Frazer. He played GAA and went to the local catholic school. It wasn't until his uncles and dad joined the loyalists/UDR and were killed that he became so bitter.

fasttalkerchat

junder wrote: »

Think it's been mentioned on find thread bit to clarify, Jamie is not a member of the pup

I thought it was announced on the news that he had. I tried to look it up but there was nothing about it. Maybe there's hope for the PUP yet!

woodoo

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Same with Frazer. He played GAA and went to the local catholic school. It wasn't until his uncles and dad joined the loyalists/UDR and were killed that he became so bitter.

That would have a bad effect on you alright.

fasttalkerchat

woodoo wrote: »

That would have a bad effect on you alright.

It wouldn't swing you all the way to saying that a Catholic school is a terrorist training camp and hating the people you grew up with.

SoulandForm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Same with Frazer. He played GAA and went to the local catholic school. It wasn't until his uncles and dad joined the loyalists/UDR and were killed that he became so bitter.

Frazer's family were serious bigots though going back to the War of Independence time- Frazer apparently is mild compared to what his dad and brothers were like. There wasnt really another school to send him to for miles.

SoulandForm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I thought it was announced on the news that he had. I tried to look it up but there was nothing about it. Maybe there's hope for the PUP yet!

You mean maybe there is hope for Jamie yet. Unlike Billy Hutchinson Jamie has not murdered two teenagers in cold blood because of their religious background. He also hasnt been involved in anything like the Holy Cross "dispute".

kabakuyu

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I thought it was announced on the news that he had. I tried to look it up but there was nothing about it. Maybe there's hope for the PUP yet!

Is this the guy you are thinking about http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20979512

fasttalkerchat

kabakuyu wrote: »

Is this the guy you are thinking about http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20979512

Must have been.

The PUP have a genuine interest in their community where the UUP and DUP don't give a ****. Its in everyone's interest for the other side to have political representatives so there can be a peaceful solution.

GRMA

I see frazer had been kicked out by Bryson and pals?



hilarity never ends

SoulandForm

GRMA wrote: »

I see frazer had been kicked out by Bryson and pals?



hilarity never ends

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21369955

Seems they are back together.

Thomas_I

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21369955

Seems they are back together.

Some further news re Mr Mrazer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21400935

Willie Frazer: Car destroyed in arson attack at his Markethill Home

SoulandForm

Weird- I wonder who did it?

He lives in an area which would have a lot of "dissident" support and strongly supported the PIRA during the "Troubles" but hasnt been personally attacked before. I strongly suspect that he is considered the village idiot by the locals. Could it be disgruntled members of FAIR or Loyalists he has fallen out with?

Thomas_I

SoulandForm wrote: »

Weird- I wonder who did it?

He lives in an area which would have a lot of "dissident" support and strongly supported the PIRA during the "Troubles" but hasnt been personally attacked before. I strongly suspect that he is considered the village idiot by the locals. Could it be disgruntled members of FAIR or Loyalists he has fallen out with?

They don´t know yet who did it. It´s the first thought that comes to his mind that probably the "Republicans" did it. But I´m also with your opinion, that this has also could come from the other direction, highly unexpected if so and this would hit him harder than from the usual suspects.

There is, of course no justification for such an act, though it has some sinister impact like the shadows of the past rising again. Dispite all that, he won´t give up the protests, even if most of the people are fed up with this and more shops are going to close down or move to another area as reportet on Friday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21387360

By the way, there´s another breaking news, aside from this thread:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21411304

GRMA

Frazer wouldnt be beyond doing it himself

gallag

GRMA wrote: »

Frazer wouldnt be beyond doing it himself

Lol probably, but its looking more and more like his IRA horse burgers claim might be correct, mabey he is a genius? Sort of the rain man of loyalism if you will.

SoulandForm

gallag wrote: »

Lol probably, but its looking more and more like his IRA horse burgers claim might be correct, mabey he is a genius? Sort of the rain man of loyalism if you will.

I literally laughed out loud at that.

Thanks.