Have 7 penalty points

Risodait

Hi I've accumulated 7 penalty points two from about two years ago and five earlier this month for no nct. My insurance is due for renewal next month. I was trying to get quotes today online but all the companies I've tried refused to quote me. Any one know of any companies that will quote? I've a full driving licence with 5 years no claims bonus.

Just as an aside what would happen if I didn't declare the points?

colm_mcm

Get quotes over the phone. Try brokers too.

robertxxx

5 for no NCT? Wtf

Risodait

Thanks. Didn't realise it'd be different getting quotes over the phone. Will my premium shoot up a lot?

Risodait

Yeah I was shocked myself with the five for no nct and €150 fine

Kristopherus

Will you current insurer not quote either? You have another year to go for the first pair of points. All the insurers have access to the penalty point database, so its far better they find out from you than the RSA.

Stheno

robertxxx wrote: »

5 for no NCT? Wtf

Standard for no NCT is five points.

Risodait wrote: »

Thanks. Didn't realise it'd be different getting quotes over the phone. Will my premium shoot up a lot?

Potentially it will go up, six I believe is the magic number after which premia increase significantly.

Not declaring is seriously dodgy all the insurers are due to get access to the points database, and if you'd an accident and hadn't declared, your insurance could be deemed void.

Risodait

I haven't asked my current insurer yet, but I put in similar details to my own on their website today to see what kind of premium they'd charge & they refused to quote.

Stheno

Risodait wrote: »

I haven't asked my current insurer yet, but I put in similar details to my own on their website today to see what kind of premium they'd charge & they refused to quote.

Ring them.

Out of curiosity as you are one of the very few people I've come across to end up with five points for no nct, was it out long?

Kristopherus

Oh for the days when we could suggest Quinn-Direct, when they would cover everything:D:D:D

Risodait

Stheno wrote: »

Not declaring is seriously dodgy all the insurers are due to get access to the points database, and if you'd an accident and hadn't declared, your insurance could be deemed void.

I would much prefer to declare the points and have everything above board but if no insurance company are prepared to insure me, I might be tempted not to declare if my insurance was void would hypothetically a third party in a crash be dealt with as if I was an uninsured driver?

Stheno

Risodait wrote: »

I would much prefer to declare the points and have everything above board but if no insurance company are prepared to insure me, I might be tempted not to declare if my insurance was void would hypothetically a third party in a crash be dealt with as if I was an uninsured driver?

My understanding is that once you have insurance the company with whom you have your policy are obligated to cover third parties, you will not get any coverage if you are on comprehensive, and I don't believe you'll have cover for fire and theft, should they declare a policy void due to non declaration of points.

Try Brittons Brokers.

Risodait

Stheno wrote: »

Ring them.

Out of curiosity as you are one of the very few people I've come across to end up with five points for no nct, was it out long?

It was out by a year. I actually thought the judge was lenient on me in court by only giving me a €150 fine as she didn't mention any penalty points. However I later learned that a conviction for no nct gives 5 automatic penalty points.

Stheno

Risodait wrote: »

It was out by a year. I actually thought the judge was lenient on me in court by only giving me a €150 fine as she didn't mention any penalty points. However I later learned that a conviction for no nct gives 5 automatic penalty points.

A year? :eek: Had you just forgotten? The fine is something wicked like up to €1500 so you were lucky enough with that.

Risodait

Stheno wrote: »

My understanding is that once you have insurance the company with whom you have your policy are obligated to cover third parties, you will not get any coverage if you are on comprehensive, and I don't believe you'll have cover for fire and theft, should they declare a policy void due to non declaration of points.

Try Brittons Brokers.

Thanks for that. Will try Britton tomorrow.

Kristopherus

Did you get a love-letter re the penalty points from the RSA?

Risodait

Stheno wrote: »

A year? :eek: Had you just forgotten? The fine is something wicked like up to €1500 so you were lucky enough with that.

Yeah was lucky enough alright. Just kept putting it on the long finger. Lesson learned though!

Risodait

Kristopherus wrote: »

Did you get a love-letter re the penalty points from the RSA?

Yep sealed with a loving kiss!!

Wheelnut

As I understand it, you have accumulated twelve points within three years so you are automatically disqualified for six months. Sorry for the disastrous news.

You might feel that you don't need that insurance now if you're off the road and that is correct. However my advice would be to keep the policy live by renewing it because it would be very difficult to get a new policy six months from now after a disqualification.

sean1141

Where are you getting 12 points from??

Risodait

Wheelnut wrote: »

As I understand it, you have accumulated twelve points within three years so you are automatically disqualified for six months. Sorry for the disastrous news.

You might feel that you don't need that insurance now if you're off the road and that is correct. However my advice would be to keep the policy live by renewing it because it would be very difficult to get a new policy six months from now after a disqualification.

No I've only got 7. Two from two years ago and 5 for the no nct.

jd

Kristopherus wrote: »

All the insurers have access to the penalty point database, so its far better they find out from you than the RSA.

As an aside, do the insurers have access to historical data, i.e. points that have expired?

doolox

If you are doing retests on a car because of unfortunate small mistakes, eg first time was bad shock absorber, second time was visual for incorrect number plate...digit missing, can the cops hit you with no NCT and 5 points????

I am afraid to go on the road now but need to in order to do the test again and (hopefully) pass this time???

Supergurrier

5 points for no NCT w/o a warning seems insane to me, how long out of NCT were you ?

Stheno

Supergurrier wrote: »

5 points for no NCT w/o a warning seems insane to me, how long out of NCT were you ?

A year SG see a few posts above

Wheelnut

sean1141 wrote: »

Where are you getting 12 points from??

Risodait wrote: »

No I've only got 7. Two from two years ago and 5 for the no nct.

Sorry, I misread the first line of the OP, I missed the "two" in the middle:

Risodait wrote: »

Hi I've accumulated 7 penalty points two from about two years ago and five earlier this month for no nct...

mickdw

Of course they will quote you. Its just those online systems will make you call up if you have anything unusual. Similarly with some powerful cars, it wont quote you either.

ThreeLineWhip

jd wrote: »

As an aside, do the insurers have access to historical data, i.e. points that have expired?

Nope. Only 1 company has access and they can only see active points.

Mr Keek

Declare the points, if you dont declare to your existing company they will charge you a penalty excess at claim time.

If you dont declare at new business with a new a company, they will canx your policy ab initio, due to non disclosure of material facts, give you a full refund, pay the third party at claim time....and would be entitled to seek damages paid out from you.....dont go there!

You will be rejected from most companies if you go online, best to just call them. More than likely they will ask you to return a proposal form before they quote. From my experience, once you go over 4 points, the start to load your policy by 10% for each pair after 4, so it wont be too bad.

Have a chat with a few brokers, you'd be suprised at the value you can get from a local broker.


5 points for NCT is a bit silly, you only get 2 points for driving on the wrong side of the road....which is more dangerious?

visual

RSA is more interested in revenue generation so speeding and paying for NCT are high on its priority. Agree 5 points is very harsh.

djimi

If you are struggling to get a quote try XS Direct as they will quote pretty much anyone on anything. You wont like the cost or the policy but its a way of getting insurance if you are desperate.

ARB might also be worth a call.

In general you are much better off trying brokers than going straight to the insurers themselves, as brokers will have much better scope to assist you.

r1_2010

That's very worrying about the number of points.

I'm in an unfortunate position myself at the moment, my NCT is up on an old Saab 93 2002 (03MY).
I'm waiting on parts (and have been for the last few weeks.. unfortunately neobrothers and the usual saab outlet places cannot get their hands on what I need until recently). The NCT itself was due up at the end of October last. I had forgotten to get it NCT'd *my fault and mine alone! *. I discovered that I needed to get the NCT renewed in December.. ironically if I had put the car through in October it prob would have passed as these problems are only after showing up in the last month or so. Since then the car has been sitting up waiting on parts to come in. Mostly minor, wear and tear to do with age. But also timing chain and tensioners !!!
I had it taken it to the garage this week to get it sorted. I'm due to sit the NCT next week. Now, I'm worried that driving my car out of the garage and to the NCT test centre I could be pulled and given 5 penalty points!!!
How black and white do the gardai tend to be on this. Assuming that I am carrying proof in the form of receipts to show that I have been back and forth having work done on the car for the NCT and that I have a print out showing my appointment for the NCT , a garda would / would not throw points at you ???

visual

Most garda will accept proof you have appointment for NCT either written on text conformation on your phone. If it has failed NCT you should carry the repairs receipt with you to show all defects have been rectify and your waiting on NCT centre to complete the test.
Even a difficult garda would have difficulities prosecuting and judge would see you have done all you can.

However driving a car with failed NCT and defects not corrected could leave you open to no NCT and defective car. Then your at the mercy of the garda

Henry Ford III

Risodait wrote: »

I would much prefer to declare the points and have everything above board but if no insurance company are prepared to insure me, I might be tempted not to declare if my insurance was void would hypothetically a third party in a crash be dealt with as if I was an uninsured driver?

Fail to declare and subsequently get caught and you can forget about driving for a good while I reckon.

listermint

I honestly dont understand the 5 Points for no NCT ?

I mean in the UK you dont get points for no MOT its a hefty fine i believe.

Where in the world did they come up with 5 points ? What minister felt that was a reflective punishment?

visual

listermint wrote: »

I honestly dont understand the 5 Points for no NCT ?

I mean in the UK you dont get points for no MOT its a hefty fine i believe.

Where in the world did they come up with 5 points ? What minister felt that was a reflective punishment?

I don't understand the logic of many decisions but RSA has a free hand to do what they want.
Defective cars and speeding combined contribute the smallest % of road fatalities. Human error being the biggest % next being poor roads.

As road fatalities have fallen with more motorways country wide and cars becoming safer RSA have lapped up the credit, there has been some good work like lowering drink driving level but by and large speeding is promoted as the big killer dispite it being contrary to the facts.
Then this NCT that is applied like a tax under RSA instructions. I believe RSA has lost the run of its self and sees the motorists as a target to fine and impose punishment. I personally consider it just a revenue generating government body.
I would rather a MOT in a proper garage with mechanics than fancy ramps and rollers opperated by semi skilled or with very rudimentary training.
Considering a car can pass NCT with 4 defective shocks says it all really.

djimi

listermint wrote: »

I honestly dont understand the 5 Points for no NCT ?

I mean in the UK you dont get points for no MOT its a hefty fine i believe.

Where in the world did they come up with 5 points ? What minister felt that was a reflective punishment?

Its not necessarily a punishment that reflects the crime, but if it is effective in getting people to put their car through the NCT then I guess its not a bad thing. Most people wont care too much about 2 or even 4 points, but 5 is serious, especially if you already have a couple of points, so I guess that is the thinking behind it.

Henry Ford III

listermint wrote: »

I honestly dont understand the 5 Points for no NCT ?

I mean in the UK you dont get points for no MOT its a hefty fine i believe.

Where in the world did they come up with 5 points ? What minister felt that was a reflective punishment?

Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die.

p.s. NCT compliance was pretty poor, and the powers that be decided come down hard on offenders?

ThreeLineWhip

listermint wrote: »

I honestly dont understand the 5 Points for no NCT ?

I mean in the UK you dont get points for no MOT its a hefty fine i believe.

Where in the world did they come up with 5 points ? What minister felt that was a reflective punishment?

£60 fixed penalty for no MOT.

I think the 5 points are because of so many drivers (mainly young offenders) that keep re-offending and going through the court merry-go-round system. maybe it's to try combat that ?

But then again most of them drive banned, no insurance, tax etc.

OP life's a bit** but what did you expect ? laws are laws.

Maybe I missed it but how did you let it expire for so long ?

cadaliac

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the 5 points are because of so many drivers (mainly young offenders) that keep re-offending and going through the court merry-go-round system. maybe it's to try combat that ?

But then again most of them drive banned, no insurance, tax etc.

OP life's a bit** but what did you expect ? laws are laws.

Maybe I missed it but how did you let it expire for so long ?

That is no reason to issue 5 penalty points for expired/no NCT.
That is a typical bullsh1t mentality. "hmmm, courts are full of scroats so lets up the points to stop the merry go round affect" ffs.
Not having a go at you Mad_Lad at all. Just the mentality and reasoning for 5 points is just madness.

68 lost souls

cadaliac wrote: »

That is no reason to issue 5 penalty points for expired/no NCT.
That is a typical bullsh1t mentality. "hmmm, courts are full of scroats so lets up the points to stop the merry go round affect" ffs.
Not having a go at you Mad_Lad at all. Just the mentality and reasoning for 5 points is just madness.

It's a perfectly legitimate reason I feel, if people are repeatedly breaking the law increase the penalty and it will stop them, I would rather see this implemented with regards to everything, not just motor related laws.

The NCT was put in place to ensure all cars are roadworthy and so if you drive around in an unroadworthy car then you shouldn't be driving, hence the penalty. If anything perhaps the test needs to be altered, I have heard of people failing because of licence plate stickers missing but if people fail for that and pass with four faulty shocks as was mentioned earlier then reform to the test is required.

visual

That a big stretch from NCT to roadworthy. I gave a example eailer that you can have all shocks faulty and that is dangerous but will still pass NCT.
NCT is a legal requirement with only preselected tests.

68 lost souls

I agree with that. That is why I suggested a reform of the test itself.

galwaytt

68 lost souls wrote: »

The NCT was put in place to ensure all cars are roadworthy and so if you drive around in an unroadworthy car then you shouldn't be driving, hence the penalty.

...that was the pretence it was introduced under. The NCT is no warranty of anything - roadworthiness included. If it was, half the insurance assessors out there would have been made redundant - assuming a green sticker on the window meant diddly. In reality it doesn't, and 'NCT'd' cars are routinely found to be unroadworthy by insurance assessors, and claims denied accordingly.

And, of course there's the €400 million-odd that Applus will get for the 10yr contract. Money does tend to concentrate the mind somewhat.

I do wonder how all these cars fitted with illegal HID kits pass the test also, most of them are blinding and it's very uncomfortable.

visual

Mad_Lad wrote: »

I do wonder how all these cars fitted with illegal HID kits pass the test also, most of them are blinding and it's very uncomfortable.

HID aren't illegal
While I agree they are annoying when fitted in reflector housings designed for halogen bulbs as far as I know they will pass NCT tests obviously NCT dont test for glare only basic alignment test.

But they could very quickly do a visual check to make sure they are fitted in projectors lenses.

Wheelnut

visual wrote: »

HID aren't illegal

Actually, I think they are illegal from this year on. (illegal in the sense that they won't pass the NCT if the headlight was not designed for them).

visual

Wheelnut wrote: »

Actually, I think they are illegal from this year on. (illegal in the sense that they won't pass the NCT if the headlight was not designed for them).

Not aware of proposed chages do you have more information of when and what is involved

Every single retrofitted HID kit is illegal in the E.U.

And for good reason, you see it on the road in the dark all the time. True some are not bad, but most of them are just annoying!

I saw a few going up the N7 around Naas this morning around 7.20 one was a Citroen dispatch type van, white, and blue white lights, the ground was lit up something mad, but yet they were blinding, but he probably say the brightness on the road 2 feet in front of him and thinks they are great.

I see a few cars every day one a silver Bora another pain in the ass.

visual

http://www.ncts.ie/pdf/NCT%20Manual%20Revise%20May%202012.pdf

I have just been looking at the NCT revised tests and it includes HID testing.
This will make most retro fit HID illegal