NQT Pay scale

07472161

I'm confused as to what I should do based on this circular.

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

I substituted during my PDE (Sept 2011- June 2012) in my tp school which was a VEC, beginning October 2011 to May 2012 at the unqualified rate €36.07 (or whatever it is).

I am now teaching since Dec 2012 with the department of Education and am still on the €36 hourly rate.

Should i submit my statement of service from the VEC that I actually began in October 2011 or will I be worse off based on the current payscale?
or will i be entitled to allowance?

Advice would be much appreciated

Thanks

TheDriver

i thought it all depends on when you started as a qualified teacher and un qualified subbing won't count? However ask your union for clarification as they would know best

chippers

Guys, i've gone through the circular and still not figured out what category I fit into. Does anybody know who is best to contact to get a definitive answer?I'm not working in Ireland and haven't been since graduating so i'm not affiliated to any union.

dory

Op - do you have a contract or are you a sub/casual part time?

Moody_mona

TheDriver wrote: »

i thought it all depends on when you started as a qualified teacher and un qualified subbing won't count? However ask your union for clarification as they would know best

I qualified in 2011 and got a job that September. Had subbed in 2010. Can they revert people to the lesser payscale?

07472161

Hey Dory, ya Im now working part time 6 hrs a week!

unknowngirl!!

07472161 wrote: »

I'm confused as to what I should do based on this circular.

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

I substituted during my PDE (Sept 2011- June 2012) in my tp school which was a VEC, beginning October 2011 to May 2012 at the unqualified rate €36.07 (or whatever it is).

Thanks

Because you taught in October 2011 you are on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

If you had of taught, qualified or unqualifed, before January 2011 you would be on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-prior-to-january-2011/ (Only get allowances if you were qualified when you worked before January 2011)

Anyone who started after Febuary 2012 is on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-february-1-2012/ (No allowances)

07472161

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

Because you taught in October 2011 you are on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

If you had of taught, qualified or unqualifed, before January 2011 you would be on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-prior-to-january-2011/ (Only get allowances if you were qualified when you worked before January 2011)

Anyone who started after Febuary 2012 is on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scales/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-february-1-2012/ (No allowances)

Ya I know so if I declare my VEC work in october 2011 I'll be paid less cause I wasn't on an allowance then so I'm better off staying on my after feb 2012 payscale. I'll work out better financially won't I?

Thanks for all the help, very confusing

Mardy Bum

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

Because you taught in October 2011 you are on this scale: http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

Does this apply even if you were unqualified at the time and became qualified after February 2012?

EDIT: After reading the literature it is evident it does not apply.

dambarude

My reading of the circular is that no matter what point you subbed before February 2012, if it was on an unqualified basis (ie. you did not yet have a teaching degree), you will not be paid degree allowances and will start on the newest, lowest payscale.

Mardy Bum

dambarude wrote: »

My reading of the circular is that no matter what point you subbed before February 2012, if it was on an unqualified basis (ie. you did not yet have a teaching degree), you will not be paid degree allowances and will start on the newest, lowest payscale.

Yes that is what it seems to be.

wolfyboy555

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Yes that is what it seems to be.

I subbed prior feb and qualified on June! They put me on old pay scale without allowances since I started in sept! Will they now be putting me back on new scale??? Can they do that?

Mardy Bum

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

I subbed prior feb and qualified on June! They put me on old pay scale without allowances since I started in sept! Will they now be putting me back on new scale??? Can they do that?

Is that the 27k starting point scale?

wolfyboy555

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Is that the 27k starting point scale?

No pt 3 of old scale 33,041

Mardy Bum

Had you subbed prior to January 2011?

Miss Lockhart

What about those who subbed in the VEC without a teaching qualification but were paid the qualified rate.

Mardy Bum

The appendix 5 in the circular in the OP is pretty clear. However Ms Lockhart that situation is not really mentioned.

dambarude

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

What about those who subbed in the VEC without a teaching qualification but were paid the qualified rate.

They were qualified for the position, as they did not need a PGDE, and so were paid the qualified rate. I'd say it's likely they'll remain on the old scales.

wolfyboy555

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Had you subbed prior to January 2011?

Yes started in 2010. Was only a secondary school. In a vec now!

dambarude

If the circular is applied as it reads, everything will be reduced to a fairly simple rule of thumb: If you were only ever paid the unqualified rate before February 2012, you will be placed on the new payscales. It's a very simple way for the department to figure out who should get what.

Mardy Bum

dambarude wrote: »

If the circular is applied as it reads, everything will be reduced to a fairly simple rule of thumb: If you were only ever paid the unqualified rate before February 2012, you will be placed on the new payscales. It's a very simple way for the department to figure out who should get what.

What about the scale for January 2011- February 2012? It says the starting point is 27k yet those who start after February 2012 will start on 30k. Do those who started pre 2012 but post Jan 2011 get an allowance?

Markjsca1

As far as I can read into it, yes those between 2011 and February 2012 will get the allowance and hence the smaller starting scale. For primary and secondary teaching it appears to be if you've got paid at all once every 6 months since anytime in 2010, you'll get the old pre-2011 rate and allowances.

And sorry to go OT a small bit but how does this work with third-level lecturing? I think these definitions get even murkier. Many qualifying postgraduates would have demonstrated/tutored/been Teaching Assistants during their studies (on pre. 2011 rates). How does this fit in with the pay scales? What qualifies as 2010 experience? Is it only lecturing experience that would count?

wolfyboy555

Finally got clarification on my situation after nearly a while school year has passed! I finished the dip in 2012 but since I did unqualified subbing in 2010 I am on the pre 2011 scale along with my degree allowance! I don't get my dip allowance was I completed it after feb 2012

UnLuckyAgain

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Finally got clarification on my situation after nearly a while school year has passed! I finished the dip in 2012 but since I did unqualified subbing in 2010 I am on the pre 2011 scale along with my degree allowance! I don't get my dip allowance was I completed it after feb 2012

Just wondering, did you get this final clarification from Payroll? And has your pay been updated now to rectify the problem?

wolfyboy555

UnLuckyAgain wrote: »

Just wondering, did you get this final clarification from Payroll? And has your pay been updated now to rectify the problem?

Yes from payroll. Back pay to be done on next pay day!

1Elainey1

Can anyone confirm if they have done away with the break in service that would put you back on Point 1 of the basic pay scale?

My story is as follows:

Nov 2009 - June 2010 maternity leave paid qualified rate paid by Donegal VEC (I had no PGDE at the time)
Aug 2010-June 2011 PGDE year training/teaching placement in Scotland
Aug 2011- June 2012 NQT year teaching full academic year in Scotland
Aug 2012- June 2013 Teaching full year in the U.A.E.

I also have a second class B.A. hons. and second class hons. M.A.

Can anyone confirm if I can remain on pre 2010 old pay scales? would I get my allowances? Or do I have to fill in an increments form for my time in Scotland, UAE.

Any help on the matter gladly received,

Elaine

clearview99

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Finally got clarification on my situation after nearly a while school year has passed! I finished the dip in 2012 but since I did unqualified subbing in 2010 I am on the pre 2011 scale along with my degree allowance! I don't get my dip allowance was I completed it after feb 2012

Hi wolfyboy555, I'm curious about your situation! When you say you did unqualified subbing in 2010, did you have your degree at this stage and was it in secondary or VEC? I did unqualified subbing in 2010 and like yourself, qualified post 2012, however with a b.ed as opposed to a h.dip following a degree - the dept of ed won't recognise the subbing from 2010 and therefore don't warrant me being on the old, pre 2011 scale! Any advice for me as to where I should go at this stage?

SlinkyL

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Finally got clarification on my situation after nearly a while school year has passed! I finished the dip in 2012 but since I did unqualified subbing in 2010 I am on the pre 2011 scale along with my degree allowance! I don't get my dip allowance was I completed it after feb 2012

This is the second time in recent weeks that I've seen someone on here get the old rates due to unqualified work prior to 2011. I qualified 2013, but worked unqualified 2002/2003 therefore had a payroll number etc. I have been told by both ASTI and DES as well as on numerous posts on here that unqualifed work doesn't count... therefore new payscale applies..
why are some people getting old rates????? Good for you but wondering how this can happen???

SlinkyL

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057510902


Link to recent thread with similar discrepancies...

clearview99

SlinkyL wrote: »

This is the second time in recent weeks that I've seen someone on here get the old rates due to unqualified work prior to 2011. I qualified 2013, but worked unqualified 2002/2003 therefore had a payroll number etc. I have been told by both ASTI and DES as well as on numerous posts on here that unqualifed work doesn't count... therefore new payscale applies..
why are some people getting old rates????? Good for you but wondering how this can happen???

There seems to be huge confusion around this issue - I too have dept. paid subbing from 08 and 10 yet only qualified in 2014 (B.Ed. Post Primary) - payroll wouldn't even entertain me when I rang them about get recognised for the subbing - would love to hear from someone who qualified post 2013ish who managed to get their subbing recognised and who got themselves back onto the pre-2011 scale

evolving_doors

Just to clarify, could it have been that the with the old VEC system you just needed a bachelors degree to be 'qualified' (i.e. without the HDip). Whereas if you were in a 'non-vec' school you needed the HDIP to be 'qualified'.

wolfyboy555

clearview99 wrote: »

Hi wolfyboy555, I'm curious about your situation! When you say you did unqualified subbing in 2010, did you have your degree at this stage and was it in secondary or VEC? I did unqualified subbing in 2010 and like yourself, qualified post 2012, however with a b.ed as opposed to a h.dip following a degree - the dept of ed won't recognise the subbing from 2010 and therefore don't warrant me being on the old, pre 2011 scale! Any advice for me as to where I should go at this stage?

Hello. Yeah I had my degree done in 2010 and subbed in a secondary school. Then I qualified from my dip in 2012 and worked in VEC school and got pre -2011 scale plus degree allowance but no dip allowance. I am not sure where to go as I have lost track of all the recent circulars and updates about it since 2013. Maybe try the Union of you are in one ?

clearview99

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Hello. Yeah I had my degree done in 2010 and subbed in a secondary school. Then I qualified from my dip in 2012 and worked in VEC school and got pre -2011 scale plus degree allowance but no dip allowance. I am not sure where to go as I have lost track of all the recent circulars and updates about it since 2013. Maybe try the Union of you are in one ?

Thanks, yes I've contacted the union on this and awaiting a reply. So it's a case that the VEC in 2012 recognised your subbing from the voluntary sector in 2010 even tho from a voluntary perspective you were unqualified - correct me if I'm wrong but the voluntary sector don't class someone subbing without a h dip as qualified even if they have a bachelors degree? This is the general understanding that I got. Do you know can the VEC allocate you to one scale with allowances even if the dept of ed disagree? I've been told that the etb that I'm with might recognise the 2010 subbing and change scale accordingly but I'm wondering what would happen then if I went back to the voluntary sector?

wolfyboy555

Sorry to drag up an old thread. I came across this form and was wondering if anyone has claimed a qualification allowance using it.

https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Payroll-Financial/Qualification-Allowance/Application-Form-for-Payment-of-a-Qualification-Allowance-to-Registered-Teachers.pdf

I am old the old scale with degree allowance but no dip allowance since I qualified 2012. I am wondering if it is applicable to me. I believe Apendix 5 in the following circular is relevant:

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0008_2013.pdf

dory

I'm in the exact same position so would be interested to know how you get on!
I find the problem is so few people are in the same position (cause there are lots of different posibilities with people qualified in 2011, 2012, 2013 all being different etc.) that it's hard to find reliable information.

wolfyboy555

dory wrote: »

I'm in the exact same position so would be interested to know how you get on!
I find the problem is so few people are in the same position (cause there are lots of different posibilities with people qualified in 2011, 2012, 2013 all being different etc.) that it's hard to find reliable information.

Did you do your subbing pre 2011 in VEC system Dory? From what I recall you are deemed qualified if subbing in VEC system but not in Voluntary system? It’s strange since I did my subbing in voluntary school in 2010 but still on the old scale. I was hired to teach some classes that year but never signed a contract or anything. I was paid by the department and my payslip just said “substitute basic” . Anyone else in a similar position? Don’t really want to apply and get them to look at my scale in case somehow they could put me onto new scales if there was an error.

dory

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Did you do your subbing pre 2011 in VEC system Dory? From what I recall you are deemed qualified if subbing in VEC system but not in Voluntary system? It’s strange since I did my subbing in voluntary school in 2010 but still on the old scale. I was hired to teach some classes that year but never signed a contract or anything. I was paid by the department and my payslip just said “substitute basic” . Anyone else in a similar position? Don’t really want to apply and get them to look at my scale in case somehow they could put me onto new scales if there was an error.

PMmed you in case we're being watched.... :cool::cool::cool: