Companies won't give quote

Erepa

Hi there, my first post on this forum. I'm hoping someone can help.
Last year my partner moved house. In the upheaval of moving she didn’t get around to changing address with her car insurance company and missed a renewal notice. A day or two after her policy ran out she was stopped at a Garda check point and charged for no insurance. When the case came to court she was fined and, more seriously had 5 points put on her licence with the result that now no-one will quote her. I have just been on to my insurance company and tried to get her put on my policy as a named driver but they say that with 5 points on her licence they cannot quote for her.
I have to go abroad for a few weeks to look after elderly parents leaving her with no legal transport, a new born baby and a toddler.
This is grossly unfair and we are very angry about it. Her being without insurance was an honest mistake and she was honest about that in court assuming she would be treated reasonably. She was later told that she should have lied and said that she sent off the renewal and blamed the insurance company for losing it. No-one could have proved otherwise and she would have gotten away with it. Now as a result of her honesty she is in an untenable situation.
What should we do?
There is no public transport to speak of in our area so please don’t suggest it
Kind regards

Corvo

While it does seem like an honest mistake, its a mistake on her part none the less and unfortunately, she will have to now pay the price.

Couple of questions:

Did she not realise the renewal would be up anyway? Even throughout the house move?

Did she check with the current insurer to see if they somehow held cover for her?

Did they contact her to follow up on the notice with a phone call?

oldyouth

Erepa, whoever told you on how she would have got away with it by lying is only acting the big man. It wouldn't have worked and the judge might have been more severe for attempting to use it as an excuse

Cushie Butterfield

Presumably, seeing as it was only two days overdue she renewed it straight away? Did she produce her renewed policy in court? Have her insurance company refused to renew the policy? Seems strange that they didn't just increase her premium.

If she didn't bother renewing it, & her insurer won't renew or reactivate the lapsed policy her best bet might be to contact an insurance broker to see if they can arrange cover for her, but even if they can she should be prepared to pay through the nose.

28064212

oldyouth wrote: »

Erepa, whoever told you on how she would have got away with it by lying is only acting the big man. It wouldn't have worked and the judge might have been more severe for attempting to use it as an excuse

^ This. Even if it was true that she had sent it away, it would still be an offence, since she hadn't received an updated policy. If you send your renewal in and don't get a response, and your insurance expires, you should stop driving. Driving without insurance is a huge offence.

dearg lady

this seems unusually severe. Did she renew her policy as soon as she realised? Has this now run out?
Unfortunately I don't think there's a lot she can do about the points, but someone will quote her, she'll just have to try other insurance co's and as said above, be prepared to pay a lot for it!

Erepa

Griffin1988 wrote: »

While it does seem like an honest mistake, its a mistake on her part none the less and unfortunately, she will have to now pay the price.

Couple of questions:

Did she not realise the renewal would be up anyway? Even throughout the house move?

Did she check with the current insurer to see if they somehow held cover for her?

Did they contact her to follow up on the notice with a phone call?

Hi Griffin, in answer to your questions
No she did not realise it would be up. She forgot owing to the stress of moving

Yes she did check and no they did not hold cover for her. Insurance companies used to give a grace period of a month or so. They no longer do this.

No they did not contact her by phone
Thanks for the reply

oldyouth wrote: »

Erepa, whoever told you on how she would have got away with it by lying is only acting the big man. It wouldn't have worked and the judge might have been more severe for attempting to use it as an excuse

You may be right, unfortunately my experience in other matters of this nature in this country is that the honest person often gets penalised and the lying crook gets away with it. We have seen plenty of examples of this recently. This creates a tragic situation where more and more people are forced into dishonesty to get by.

Erepa

dearg lady wrote: »

this seems unusually severe. Did she renew her policy as soon as she realised? Has this now run out?
Unfortunately I don't think there's a lot she can do about the points, but someone will quote her, she'll just have to try other insurance co's and as said above, be prepared to pay a lot for it!

She did of course renew it, unfortunately the company wouldn't back date it so when it came to court there was a gap. Since that renewal the points were slapped on and when she tried to renew it again they wouldn't quote her. Since then I've been doing all the driving and we can't afford a very high quote which brings us back the situation we are in.
Basically we're furious at the insurance companies for this and one or two separate experiences. They call the shots, they have the law on their side backing them up and dealing with them over the phone is a dehumanising experience. It all seems to come down to "computer says no"

oldyouth

Erepa wrote: »

You may be right, unfortunately my experience in other matters of this nature in this country is that the honest person often gets penalised and the lying crook gets away with it. We have seen plenty of examples of this recently. This creates a tragic situation where more and more people are forced into dishonesty to get by.

My experience is that the normally honest person, trying a dishonest act, is the person who suffers

galwayjohn89

I understand it was a mistake but at the end of the day she broke the law. If she wasn't stopped how long would she of been driving uninsured?

I do have sympathy for her as I understand mistake happen but with car insurance you need to be very careful. I have the renewal set on my phone calendar just in case. Imagine she caused a huge pileup, would of been a lot worse for her.

Erepa

oldyouth wrote: »

My experience is that the normally honest person, trying a dishonest act, is the person who suffers

Ha ha! meaning that the well practiced crook still gets away with it. Sad but often true

Erepa

Vuzuggu wrote: »

I understand it was a mistake but at the end of the day she broke the law. If she wasn't stopped how long would she of been driving uninsured?

I do have sympathy for her as I understand mistake happen but with car insurance you need to be very careful. I have the renewal set on my phone calendar just in case. Imagine she caused a huge pileup, would of been a lot worse for her.

However. We still have a situation where as things stand she may be left without transport in the winter with two small children unless we can find a way around this. People end up doing what they have to do to get by

dearg lady

yeah, it's a lousy situation, and seems like an overreaction, I'm sorry i don't have any helpful advice.

Cushie Butterfield

Have you explored the possibility of an open drive policy - as in you take out an open drive policy which covers any driver over 25 with a full licence? There may or may not be other stipulations such as the other driver would only be covered for third party, or they must have no penalty points or whatever, depending on diffent insurers but it's worth checking out. As I said earlier you'd probably be better dealing through a broker, who would more than likely have a working relationship with various contacts within the different insurance companies.

galwayjohn89

Open Drive is actually a very good idea. Wouldn't have thought of it myself. Id be wary of the small print though.

MurdyWurdy

Have you tried all the insurance companies, i.e. rang them all to explain the situation. Sorry, I'm not sure from your post if it is just that they won't quote for her on your current insurance policy or no insurance company will touch her. (you've said nobody will quote but just wondering how many companies you called?)

We had a situation where we had lived abroad for four years and had no no claims history. We were getting astronomical quotes. I kept at it and called all the insurance companies. In the end, we found a company that would accept a letter from our insurer where we lived overseas as a no claims certificate and we paid a quarter of what other companies were quoting us. It took a lot of pushing though to get it sorted.

There was one other company that would quote us a reasonable rate without a no claims certificiate but the excess was really high. I'm sorry I can't remember the name of it but perhaps some company will do a deal for you like that - they'll insure you but put a high excess on in case of anything happening.

oldyouth

Vuzuggu wrote: »

Open Drive is actually a very good idea. Wouldn't have thought of it myself. Id be wary of the small print though.

Open Driving condition is usually worded along the lines of 25-70 with full EU Licence and no previous convictions, accidents, penalty points etc. Variations exist but that is usually it

corkonion

This doesn't add up, after the garda stopped her she obviously realised that she had not renewed her policy, and should have done so straight away (as her no claims bonus is valid for one year) and she had not been to court or received penalty points at this time, the court case was a minimum of weeks later and most probably months, and she still hasn't paid her insurance... I don't get it,.

cookie1977

corkonion wrote: »

This doesn't add up, after the garda stopped her she obviously realised that she had not renewed her policy, and should have done so straight away (as her no claims bonus is valid for one year) and she had not been to court or received penalty points at this time, the court case was a minimum of weeks later and most probably months, and she still hasn't paid her insurance... I don't get it,.

I'd agree. I dont feel like this is the whole story. If it were that easy to get taken to court over no insurance after only a few days the the courts would be full.

Ilovelucy

I don't know where you got that the Insurance Companies have held cover for up to a month on motor policies. There are no days of grace on a Motor Policy. This story doesn't add up I'm afraid.

rainbowtrout

Also aren't insurance companies obliged to give you a quote? Even if it is astronomical?

Erepa

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Have you explored the possibility of an open drive policy - as in you take out an open drive policy which covers any driver over 25 with a full licence? There may or may not be other stipulations such as the other driver would only be covered for third party, or they must have no penalty points or whatever, depending on diffent insurers but it's worth checking out. As I said earlier you'd probably be better dealing through a broker, who would more than likely have a working relationship with various contacts within the different insurance companies.

That now is definitely worth looking into. Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes and thanks to everyone else for the comments

Erepa

Ilovelucy wrote: »

I don't know where you got that the Insurance Companies have held cover for up to a month on motor policies. There are no days of grace on a Motor Policy. This story doesn't add up I'm afraid.

Well my old company used to before they got taken over

oldyouth

There are no days of grace under a motor policy. However, if you dealt with a broker, they usually have a month to advise the insurance company which policies for that period have been renewed and which ones have been lapsed. It does happen that the broker will accept your premium after the renewal date and notify the insurer that cover is renewed when settling their monthly account.

Like the old insurance saying, "there's never a problem until there is a problem" and I wouldn't like to be involved in a big accident after the renewal date and have the insurer discover that you subsequently paid the premium to your broker.

Ilovelucy

Erepa wrote: »

Well my old company used to before they got taken over

As I said there are no days of grace with motor. As another poster said you were most probably through a broker who accepted your premium. The onus would have been on them to ensure you weren't involved in anything that would give rise to a claim or attract penalty points.

chris85

Erepa wrote: »

Well my old company used to before they got taken over

Take some responsibility on it and stop blaming insurance company. Your other half was the driver of the car and has a responsibility to themselves and other people to be insured. God forbid she may have crashed and injured someone or herself and no insurance to go to on it.

Shyboy

chris85 wrote: »

Take some responsibility on it and stop blaming insurance company. Your other half was the driver of the car and has a responsibility to themselves and other people to be insured. God forbid she may have crashed and injured someone or herself and no insurance to go to on it.

I totally agree. As hard as the situation may seem, it could have been much worse. If the uninsured driver had actually hit someone and seriously injured or even killed them, they would probably be in prison now.

beazee

Erepa wrote: »

she may be left without transport in the winter with two small children unless we can find a way around this

There's a lot of car rental companies around.

Erepa

chris85 wrote: »

Take some responsibility on it and stop blaming insurance company. Your other half was the driver of the car and has a responsibility to themselves and other people to be insured. God forbid she may have crashed and injured someone or herself and no insurance to go to on it.

Excuse me! We are taking responsibility on it. She took responsibility on it by being straight up in court and look where it got her. We are now trying to find an honest way out of this mess. Please do not bother replying to this post if all you want to do is act all self righteous and holier than thou. We have been insured between us for over 15 years with no accidents and one claim and I could go into how badly the insurance company acted on that one but its for another post really. I repeat. We are looking for support and help here. Only reply if that's what you have to offer.

Scortho

Erepa your best bet if open drive doesn't work out is to get 3 refusals to quote and then as far as I know they have to provide you with a quote. As she now has at least 5 penalty points her policy will have increased to reflect this. See the bottom of this: http://www.nca.ie/nca/car-insurance#refused

She has gotten of lightly considering she could have got a 6 month prison term and banned from driving for 1 year.

prettygurrly

em...taxis? unless you're taking your kids to school every day but as you have a small baby and a toddler you're looking at getting your weekly shop done and emergencies...bit crap being stuck at home but if that's the situation you're in...put your car off the road for the winter so you don't have to pay tax on those months, then you can offset that against the cost of a few taxis per week.

p.s. i'm aware that if you live in the country that you will have to pay about a tenner/€15 to the nearest town but if you get in with a company they might do a deal with you.

Erepa

Scortho wrote: »

Erepa your best bet if open drive doesn't work out is to get 3 refusals to quote and then as far as I know they have to provide you with a quote. As she now has at least 5 penalty points her policy will have increased to reflect this. See the bottom of this: http://www.nca.ie/nca/car-insurance#refused

She has gotten of lightly considering she could have got a 6 month prison term and banned from driving for 1 year.

We are working on it.
It seems rather odd that the penalty for driving with no insurance makes it much harder to get insurance. She was penalised for no insurance, this has no bearing on how likely she is to have an accident.
In the course of making enquiries I have come across a few people in similar situations who claim to have not told insurance companies about points and carried on driving. It would be a disaster if they did have an accident of course as this would invalidate their cover but the way the system is tends to push people towards these kind of choices.

oldyouth

Erepa wrote: »

It seems rather odd that the penalty for driving with no insurance makes it much harder to get insurance. She was penalised for no insurance, this has no bearing on how likely she is to have an accident..

Insurers treat previous convictions for driving without insurance as very very serious incidents. In their eyes, it demonstrates a reluctance/disdain for the principle of responsible behaviour. In other words, it is a moral hazard. It is also likely that people who drive without insurance, do so because they find it unaffordable due to problems in the past which are not being disclosed.

It can (and does happen) that any one of use can make a bad judgement call while in possession of a car. We can speed at the wrong moment, overtake where we shouldn't or lose concentration for a second and cause an accident. Driving without insurance is a pre-meditated action and this (in insurers eyes) profiles you as the type of insured they would prefer not to have to defend in any future claim where liability is disputed

chris85

Erepa wrote: »

We are working on it.
It seems rather odd that the penalty for driving with no insurance makes it much harder to get insurance. She was penalised for no insurance, this has no bearing on how likely she is to have an accident.
In the course of making enquiries I have come across a few people in similar situations who claim to have not told insurance companies about points and carried on driving. It would be a disaster if they did have an accident of course as this would invalidate their cover but the way the system is tends to push people towards these kind of choices.

Of course it will impact it. Its an offence to drive without insurance and the insurers as previously posted are assessing the risk and as far as they are concerned your OH is higher risk as she has shown previous issues with following the road traffic laws. Definitely a big issue and rightly makes it more difficult.

Not telling the insurance company about points is as good as not having the insurance. Have some respect for others on the road and dont do this. The system does not push towards this, your partner's mistake has pushed your mind towards this stupid idiotic idea.

mel123

Erepa wrote: »

People end up doing what they have to do to get by

I sincerely hope this doesnt mean that your wife is going to drive without insurance.

Erepa

While putting out feelers on this thread I was pursuing another approach that has just worked out for us. In a fit of desperation I contacted the Insurance Industry Federation not really expecting anything because I assumed with a name like that it could not be there to support the consumer rather to protect the industry.
Happily in this case, I was wrong. I spoke with a very helpful gentleman who informed me that;

• insurance companies are obliged to give quotes
• my partner's original company was in the wrong for refusing to renew her policy. Their mistake, they've lost our business now.

I filled him in with the details of our case including my partners previous 6 years of unbroken insurance with no claims, convictions etc and my 9 years ncb no convictions etc. (Take note any posters casting aspersions on our driving ability, morals, sense of social responsibility etc).
He then contacted the company for us who then got back on to us and asked us for more details. After a day or two they contacted us again and gave us a quote to put my partner down as named driver for about e80. Not too bad, we took it. Sorted.
My thanks go out to the fella who helped us in the IIF. I'd recommend anyone in a similar situation giving them a try.

Erepa

My question now is; why did every company we contacted up to that point refuse to quote us when in actual fact they had no right to do this? What are they playing at?


I accept that there needs to be some form of insurance to cover road accidents etc but the industry in its present form is too powerful and exercises a stranglehold over consumers. They play a role similar to banks in that we need them and they use this need to get away with stuff.
There is a very dark side to the insurance industry that has a subtle but corrosive affect on society
I predict that in the coming years similar corruption will be revealed in the insurance industry as we have now thankfully begun to see in the banks.

peteb2

You've been misinformed by the iif. No one is obliged to quote you but if you get 3 letters of declinature then the last person your partner was insured with has to provide you with a quote as the "insurer concerned". However there's no guarantee that price has to be reasonable!

Erepa

peteb2 wrote: »

You've been misinformed by the iif. No one is obliged to quote you but if you get 3 letters of declinature then the last person your partner was insured with has to provide you with a quote as the "insurer concerned". However there's no guarantee that price has to be reasonable!

Hi Pete, did you not read my last post. We got the result we wanted based on the advice and help of the IIF. That to me indicates that the info they gave is accurate. Or at least accurate enough for us.

peteb2

i did read your original post. And i also read post number 37. People look back on old posts and just want to ensure the correct info is out there.

Sonnenblumen

Erepa wrote: »

My question now is; why did every company we contacted up to that point refuse to quote us when in actual fact they had no right to do this? What are they playing at?


I accept that there needs to be some form of insurance to cover road accidents etc but the industry in its present form is too powerful and exercises a stranglehold over consumers. They play a role similar to banks in that we need them and they use this need to get away with stuff.
There is a very dark side to the insurance industry that has a subtle but corrosive affect on society
I predict that in the coming years similar corruption will be revealed in the insurance industry as we have now thankfully begun to see in the banks.

After reading this thread, I think the answer to your question would be obvious to most reasonable law abiding people. Your conspiracy theories are utter nonsense. If you cannot cope with the responsibilities, do not drive, it is that simple.

Erepa

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

After reading this thread, I think the answer to your question would be obvious to most reasonable law abiding people. Your conspiracy theories are utter nonsense. If you cannot cope with the responsibilities, do not drive, it is that simple.

So treat me as a simple child and explain it to me then.

Get back to me on it in a few years if you like. A few years ago a lot of people would have called one a conspiracy theorist for predicting the current financial mess we find ourselves in.

As to my responsibilities I suggest you read back over my posts to the bit where I mention 9 years NCB etc.

Actually I'd be happy not to drive if we lived in a country with a sane transport system

BuffyBot

This has more than run it's course. Erepa, if you post on the Internet, you don't just get to deal with the responses that tell you what you want to hear.