Supplements & sleeping advice requested for racing cyclist weight loss

FrankGrimes

I'm starting to compete in cycling racing this season and I've lost 2.5kg of the 10kg I need to lose to get to my optimal cycling weight (was 95kg, aiming for 85kg which would give me a very strong power to weight ratio given current power output levels).

Training will primarily involve 60-90 minutes on the turbo trainer at 6.30-7am Mon, Wed, Friday and 3 hour sessions on Saturday or Sunday (sometimes both). I play soccer Tuesday evenings. I'll do core exercises, some weights and kettlebell exercises to build some tone (not for cycling, I just prefer having some muscle tone) and core stability for cycling, this will be 2 or 3 times a week on the off days, about 30-45mins.

I have made major changes to my diet (based on a lot of great info on here). In general, I'm eating either porridge or scrambled eggs in the morning, apples or a handful of mixed nuts if a snack is needed, and lunch is now a salad with either tuna or chicken and chickpeas, kidney beans, beetroot, sweetcorn, tomatoe, leaves, seeds. I've started taking the salad in a plastic container and eating 2/3 at lunch and then keeping the remainder to have as my afternoon snack. I've cut out bread and reduced carbs with dinner to a small amount.

I feel I'm lacking fiber though, are there any foods to recommend I add into my diet, or would supplements be good for this?

I often work long hours (will be doing most cycling training in the mornings) and that's what has led to bad habits in the past. I think having a protein shake in the late afternoons would be a good small meal replacement (play soccer on Tuesday nights, sometimes I'll need to hit the gym in the evening). I'm starting to use MyFitnessPal to count calories and my power meter and Garmin Edge will accurately record calories used in cycling.

Now that I'm in my regime and working to a goal, I'm quite disciplined during the day (increasing water intake too) but it's when I'm watching TV after what's generally a fairly late dinner, that I get tempted to reach for goodies. I sometimes have a bowl of Hi8 multi-cereal an hour or so before bed and if I do need something sweet, I now try to limit it to one block of dark chocolate (70 or 85%). I was wondering would a casein protein such as this be advisable? Or is this more for someone doing weight gain training?

I wake up very hungry in the mornings and take a coffee and banana before starting on the turbo trainer. I then shower and head to work, where we have a fantastic canteen so I can get porridge or some eggs & tomatoes (with a few fried mushrooms but I can cut that out). Would it be wise to have a protein shake straight after the workout given the 60-90 minute gap between end of workout and eating breakfast in work?

The advice I was given for selecting a protein shake for cycling training is "Any protein shake that has less than 20grams of protein and at least 25-30grams of carbohydrate would be good. If it was a diverse mix of both simple and complex carbs that’s great. Some fiber would really be a bonus as well. " but I'm not sure what site offers that. Would this Whey Protein Concentrate 82% Instantised be good? Or what about the Diet Protein mentioned on the Supplements thread (though I didn't see any reviews of it on there)?

That Diet Protein has L Carnitine in it which apparently is good for promoting the use of fat as a fuel for exercise, leading to quicker fat loss - is this a rare case of something actually doing what it claims or the usual nonsense? Here's an ALCAR L Carnitine mixture that seems to get positive reviews but I'd want to know first that it's not just marketing spiel.

Lastly, I had major surgery on my legs a few years ago and since then suffer from Restless Leg Syndrome (basically the legs just move rapidly involuntarily at times in the evening and while I'm asleep, also get weird pressure feelings) and this really affects my sleep time and quality. I've been apprehensive about using a sleeping aid as I'd be at risk of becoming dependent on it. But I see ZMA (like this) is more to help you into deep sleep once asleep, so would it be worth me trying? Gotta admit, I'm not comfortable with the idea of taking something like this long-term, and also a bit unsure about possible testerone side-effects (I don't think I need to increase test for my training needs). Have people not doing serious weight training programs used ZMA and gotten sleep benefits without negative testosterone side-effects?

Thanks a lot for any pointers on the above or other things for me to consider and also to all those who have posted the great info on this forum which I found really helpful to study to help me formulate the main changes in my eating habits.

siochain

I'll do core exercises, some weights and kettlebell exercises to build some tone (not for cycling, I just prefer having some muscle tone) and core stability for cycling, this will be 2 or 3 times a week on the off days, about 30-45mins.

add in some front squats and deadlifts, both with have transferable benefits to cycling and to your core.

I've cut out bread and reduced carbs with dinner to a small amount.

good decision hows your fat in take?

Now that I'm in my regime and working to a goal, I'm quite disciplined during the day (increasing water intake too) but it's when I'm watching TV after what's generally a fairly late dinner, that I get tempted to reach for goodies. I sometimes have a bowl of Hi8 multi-cereal an hour or so before bed and if I do need something sweet, I now try to limit it to one block of dark chocolate (70 or 85%). I was wondering would a casein protein such as this be advisable? Or is this more for someone doing weight gain training?

HI8 has wheat, if your not eating bread why HI8. If your looking to shift 7.5 kg this is not a good choice. The casein would take the egde off you but its is extra calories. Reaching for the goodies is just habit, break that habit for a few nights and you will be grand, you can be discilined during the day you can do it during the evening, how bad to you what to reach your goals?

then shower and head to work, where we have a fantastic canteen so I can get porridge or some eggs & tomatoes (with a few fried mushrooms but I can cut that out). Would it be wise to have a protein shake straight after the workout given the 60-90 minute gap between end of workout and eating breakfast in work?

with what your having for breakfast the shake is not needed,

The advice I was given for selecting a protein shake for cycling training is "Any protein shake that has less than 20grams of protein and at least 25-30grams of carbohydrate would be good. If it was a diverse mix of both simple and complex carbs that’s great. Some fiber would really be a bonus as well. " but I'm not sure what site offers that. Would this Whey Protein Concentrate 82% Instantised be good? Or what about the Diet Protein mentioned on the Supplements thread (though I didn't see any reviews of it on there)??

the shakes you have linked don't match the macro profile you have been adviced to follow. Something like Muscle Milk would be closer.

But I see ZMA (like this) is more to help you into deep sleep once asleep, so would it be worth me trying?

The magnesium in ZMA helps you relax and get off to sleep no harm in trying our you could just get a magnesium supplement which would be cheaper or try camomile or valerian tea. Taking ZMA on and off is not going to effect test leavels no matter what your doing.

FrankGrimes

Thanks a lot for all that advice siochain, much appreciated.

siochain wrote: »

add in some front squats and deadlifts, both with have transferable benefits to cycling and to your core.

Good advice, will do.

good decision hows your fat in take?

It has certainly come down significantly. During the weekdays in work the breakfast and lunch meals are quite low in fat I think (not sure if things like kidney beans have much fat but I'm guessing it's good fat if so?). Snacks are now mainly fruit or mixed nuts (high in good fats but I keep it to a handful and eat them individually and consciously tell myself that's my snack taken care of rather than grazing on them. Evening meals are quite healthy: my wife has gotten us into the Hairy Dieters evening meals (the salmon is incredible!) but even before that dinners were reasonably healthy, though the late timing isn't ideal (both have hectic lifestyles but we're working on earlier dinners).

I may well be overlooking something, but on the whole I think fat intake isn't a problem. As I increase the length and intensity of cycling training, I need to take things like granola bars / go-ahead biscuits or energy gels for long sessions - otherwise I can't sustain high performance, but I think I have the balance on this area down well as I've lost weight with this approach in previous seasons (need to go a lot further this season though as it's the first time I'm competing).

HI8 has wheat, if your not eating bread why HI8. If your looking to shift 7.5 kg this is not a good choice. The casein would take the egde off you but its is extra calories. Reaching for the goodies is just habit, break that habit for a few nights and you will be grand, you can be discilined during the day you can do it during the evening, how bad to you what to reach your goals?

Great point. I hadn't thought of it that way about the wheat in Hi8. Will drop it. Are Bran flakes ok? Really struggling with the lack of fibre in my diet at the moment so I think it's an area I really need to address in a way that doesn't have it's own negative effects.

I've been getting a lot better on the goodies at night habit. When I am hungry in the evening now, half a cracker bread with some peanut butter is great, and I think one block of dark chocolate is likely ok. Again, I won't know for sure till I count my calories, but I think my deficit the past week might have been bigger than the 250-500 calories I've seen recommended. I'll avoid the casein so.

I'm starting now to ask myself about every bit of food I think about if it's going to help me reach my goals or not, finding that really helps improve discipline.

with what your having for breakfast the shake is not needed, the shakes you have linked don't match the macro profile you have been adviced to follow. Something like Muscle Milk would be closer.

Thanks, will look into Muscle Milk. I still need to have protein shakes available as there are times when I have early meetings and I don't get to eat the porridge or eggs in the canteen - this is more when urgent unforeseen issues arise in work and these cases have thrown me out of my regime before, so I want to have quick alternatives to hand so that I don't get thrown off track when that happens.

The magnesium in ZMA helps you relax and get off to sleep no harm in trying our you could just get a magnesium supplement which would be cheaper or try camomile or valerian tea. Taking ZMA on and off is not going to effect test leavels no matter what your doing.

Thanks, I'll probably go ahead and try out ZMA, though I'm still unclear on why it's mentioned that it increases hormone levels but you mention it won't have an effect on testosterone levels - is that because it's only long-term use that increases those levels?

siochain

I may well be overlooking something, but on the whole I think fat intake isn't a problem. As I increase the length and intensity of cycling training, I need to take things like granola bars / go-ahead biscuits or energy gels for long sessions - otherwise I can't sustain high performance, but I think I have the balance on this area down well as I've lost weight with this approach in previous seasons (need to go a lot further this season though as it's the first time I'm competing).

you might think about adding in the likes of olive, walnut, coconut oil into your diet. I recommend coconut oil as an energy source to few people training for the last Dublin marathon and they reported very good results. I use it with coffee before my morning works, serious combo for training. With these granola bars / go-ahead biscuits / energy gels you’re going to be adding in wheat and a lot of processed sugar into your diet. You might think about making your own bars, blend up the likes of honey nuts, dark choc, cacao nibs, milled flax seed, rasins, coconut oil then stick in a tray in the fridge. Much cheaper and better all round.

Are Bran flakes ok?

much worse. If you need to get fibre into your diet you could think about, apple pectin, psyllium husks, wheat grass all very cheap on iherb.com

When I am hungry in the evening now, half a cracker bread with some peanut butter is great, and I think one block of dark chocolate is likely ok

Mine is crunchy peanut butter on slices of granny smith apples and a block of dark choc is a great reward for a good days training.:)

Thanks, I'll probably go ahead and try out ZMA, though I'm still unclear on why it's mentioned that it increases hormone levels but you mention it won't have an effect on testosterone levels - is that because it's only long-term use that increases those levels?

some studies point to ZMA increasing test levels and you may notice some nocturnal wood changes. But its not going to shut down your natural production.

cheers

FrankGrimes

Thanks again siochain.

siochain wrote: »

you might think about adding in the likes of olive, walnut, coconut oil into your diet. I recommend coconut oil as an energy source to few people training for the last Dublin marathon and they reported very good results. I use it with coffee before my morning works, serious combo for training.

I bought some coconut oil last week - it's hard kinda like candle wax, right? Do you just put a teaspoon into your coffee as an energy source? I used it as cooking oil for some chicken and found it delish. I forgot to mention I eat some black olives in my salad most weekdays. Will add a bit of walnut and olive oil.

If you need to get fibre into your diet you could think about, apple pectin, psyllium husks, wheat grass all very cheap on iherb.com

I've no idea what any of those things are but I'll give 'em a gander!

some studies point to ZMA increasing test levels and you may notice some nocturnal wood changes. But its not going to shut down your natural production.

Hehe, nocturnal wood changes? Now I just gotta try it

siochain

FrankGrimes wrote: »

I bought some coconut oil last week - it's hard kinda like candle wax, right? Do you just put a teaspoon into your coffee as an energy source? I used it as cooking oil for some chicken and found it delish. I forgot to mention I eat some black olives in my salad most weekdays. Will add a bit of walnut and olive oil.

yeah start off with one teaspoon into the coffee and stir, some prefer to use a hand blender. Some times if I'm craving carbs I take teaspoon straight off.
cheers

King of Kings

Siochain has answered a lot so just to add my tuppence.

ZMA is my favourite supplement , it doesn't help you sleep easier but I wake up more refreshed.
maybe not that less sore than I'd be without it but certainly less tired.
No long term effect that I noticed - I've been on and off it for 5 years.
the side effects are handy too.


I take linseed for added fibre.
Usually throw it in a smootie ( i prob have 1 or 2 smooties a week).
you can buy a small bag in tesco for a few euro which will do me about a month