New Zebra crossings at celbridge concerns....

Karlitto

Hi all,

I just wanted to voice my concerns about the new zebra crossings at celbridge.

So, I contacted kildare coco about this as I feel that these are highly dangerous for padestrians.

I feel that the section of two of the padestrian crossings are highly dangerous as they are on corners, the first is if you come over the bridge from mainstreet and are turning left, the second if you are coming from leixlip going over the bridge and turning left towards esso. These are dangerous for a number of reasons, 1) they are on turns which are quite sharp in terms of seeing padestrians. 2) all sets of zebra crossings are in extremely poor lighting as there are no street lamps.

The second problem I see is the congestion with traffic. If you go to mainstreet at 8AM or 5-6PM you will see it can take 20 minutes or longer to get from one end of mainstreet to the other. These zebra crossings are a) making the situation worse, and b) making it even more dangerous for padestrians. I firmly believe that a set of traffic lights on either side of the bridge which work in conjunction with each other would improve the traffic flow 10 fold, furthermore, making it far more safe for padestrians to cross the street.

There are other suggestions I have but won't get into in detail.

But this is the bulk of my concern.

On that note, I have basically recieved two seperate emails from

<snip>
Senior Executive Engineer
Traffic Management Section

And

<snip>
Executive Technician
Traffic Management Section

Which are basically "please **** off" emails. They were 100% defensive and were trying to justify how safe their solution is.

I was not looking to measure dick sizes or have a debate which will go no where. I simply wanted to voice my concerns of public safety to them.

The emails went no where after replying to both. So, I just told them that I hope I am very wrong, but this will cost a life before they wake up and do somthing about it. If this happens I will make damn sure that everyone knows that I informed kildare county council of this risk and they blatently ignored me.

Any thoughts?

P.S. I do recognise the need for some form of safer crossing for padestrians, but zebra crossings are not the answer, Traffic lights are.

brian_t

Karlitto wrote: »

Which are basically "please **** off" emails. They were 100% defensive and were trying to justify how safe their solution is.

To be fair I think you should say what the emails actually said.

Karlitto

Ok, here you are.

My first mail:

Good day team,
I wish to inform you of some very serious issues with the new pedestrian crossings
around the Celbridge main street bridge. Whilst I see a dire need for crossings
for pedestrians, a zebra crossing such as the set which were recently put in
place are not the answer. The reason being, this is an extremely poorly lit area
as there is not a single street lamp on the section. Each day I travel from
Leixlip to Castletown house which involves travelling down from the barn hall
road to Celbridge main street. The quality of lighting in the area around the
bridge is highly dangerous for pedestrians crossing on the zebra crossings.
Furthermore, there have been many cases which I have seen in the short period
these crossings were put in place of pedestrians having “near misses” with cars
and other such vehicles.

To further add to this, the traffic jamming from all directions when at the bridge
has now further degraded. On a daily basis at approximately 6 PM the traffic
heading away from Castletown park is backed up from the bridge to the maxol
garage and vice versa coming from the clane road and barn hall road. I firmly
believe that two sets of traffic lights (one on either side of the bridge) would
have been a far more logical choice. This would a) ensure the traffic stops
completely when pedestrians are crossing, b) ensure traffic can flow in a
logical pattern assuming the two sets of traffic lights worked in tangent with
each other.

I hope you seriously consider my comments on the zebra crossings as if
these are ignored, mark my words, it WILL cost a life. And this will not
be taken lightly after numerous warnings from the general area have already been sent in to your office.

Feel free to contact me back at any stage for further
informaion.

Dear Karl,

Thank you for your e-mail. The Zebra crossings you refer to upgraded existing uncontrolled pedestrian crossings that existed at this location. The crossings are located in an urban area where the speed limit is 50 kmph. Zebra crossings were considered to be the most suitable type of crossing for this location.
The works were funded by the National Transport Authority and in general the feed back has been positive. Each of the he crossings will be subject to an independent safety audit and any issues raised shall be acted on.
Your comments have been noted and if you have any further observations/suggestions regarding traffic lights please forward them to trafficlights@kildarecoco.ie

Kind regards,

<snip>

Executive Technician
Traffic Management Section
Transportation Department
Kildare County Council
Tel: 045-980225

Good morning <snip>,

Whilst I understand that there was a desperate need for some method of padestrians to cross the roads, I would not say that the zebra crossings were at all the most "suitable" solution, but more so the cheapest.

While people may think it is a good idea, this is only because they have gone from having nothing to having these zebra crossings. If your statement is true about each crossing being subject to prior safety audits, I would like to know what the criteria of these audits were. Simply because, if you actually went down to the site and viewed these crossings, you would see that a) there are two crossings which are blind sighted by corners and motorists would not see someone until it is too late, b) in the evening times where it is most busy there is NO street lighting around these crossings which is highly dangerous for padestrians.

Furthermore, you state that any safety issues raised will be acted on. Well, I have just listed some, so, in turn, please act on them.

I am not saying the zebra crossings need to be replaced with traffic lights, but if logic had of been applied in the planning of this project, traffic lights would have been used over zebra crossings for a number of reasons, 1) They provide a safe environment for padestrians to cross the roads, b) FAR less traffic congestion in the morning and evenings especially.

I can see from your response that it was a generic reply to such complaints. But, as I said, I and a number of residents in the area have voiced our warnings to you in writing, if (and I hope I am very wrong) this does cost a life, I will make sure people know that warnings and complaints were ignored by Kildare County Council.

Dear Mr X

I refer to your correspondence to <snip> on the above issue and your comments are noted.

It is important to note that the installation of any crossing is the subject of technical review including a number of site visits.

The staff in the Council's Traffic Management Section are very experienced in both the design and implementation of various traffic management solutions.

The installations in Celbridge provide a significant improvement in safety for vulnerable road users in the area. Prior to the works, there was no facilities for pedestrians.

As <snip> has advised, KCC keep all installations under review as part of our duties and new installations are the subject of independent road safety audits which forms part of our funding agreement from the National Transport Authority.

I have read your emails and wish to advise you that comments made in them are erroneous and mis-informed.


1. Whilst I understand that there was a desperate need for some method of padestrians to cross the roads, I would not say that the zebra crossings were at all the most "suitable" solution, but more so the cheapest.

Value for money audits to ensure appropriate measures are undertaken by funding agencies. This means that cost is not the sole criteria used to evaluate a scheme.

2. If your statement is true about each crossing being subject to prior safety audits, I would like to know what the criteria of these audits were

Details of scope and methodology used for Road Safety Audits are available on the internet and the NRA has published National Guidelines.

3. Simply because, if you actually went down to the site and viewed these crossings, you would see that a) there are two crossings which are blind sighted by corners and motorists would not see someone until it is too late, b) in the evening times where it is most busy there is NO street lighting around these crossings which is highly dangerous for padestrians.

The issue of improved public lighting is noted and will be evaluated as part of the Road Safety Audit process. This is to prevent individual opinions from influencing works to be done outside the RSA process.

4. Furthermore, you state that any safety issues raised will be acted on. Well, I have just listed some, so, in turn, please act on them.


See reply to 3 above.

5. I am not saying the zebra crossings need to be replaced with traffic lights, but if logic had of been applied in the planning of this project, traffic lights would have been used over zebra crossings for a number of reasons, 1) They provide a safe environment for padestrians to cross the roads, b) FAR less traffic congestion in the morning and evenings especially.

If you have additional information on your "logic" comment, we would be happy to review it.

We are unaware of any direct link between congestion in the Village and the new zebra crossings. Also we are unaware of any research that points towards traffic signals being more safe that zebra crossings.

6. I can see from your response that it was a generic reply to such complaints. But, as I said, I and a number of residents in the area have voiced our warnings to you in writing, if (and I hope I am very wrong) this does cost a life, I will make sure people know that warnings and complaints were ignored by Kildare County Council.

In the first instance, the Council replies to queries, and when a number of queries are raised then similar replies are sent. The Council does not have "generic replies" in use.

Whilst I note your final comments, the issue of safety raised in your emails points towards vehicles not obeying the rules of the road with regard to these zebra crossings. The Council is not responsible for driver behaviour and any motorist who ignores a pedestrian using a zebra crossing can be prosecuted by An Garda Siochana. The local Garda Station will be notified of your concern and you may wish to follow the issue of enforcement.

I trust the above is both informative and helpful.

Regards

<snip>
Senior Executive Engineer
Traffic Management Section
Transportation Department
Kildare County Council

Hi <snip>,

Thank you for your reply,

I do not wish to get in to a pointless back and forth email debate, which lets be frank here, will solve absoloutely nothing.

I simply want to inform the correct authorities of a public danger.

The reply from both you and your colleague have spoken volumes to me.

I did not say the zebra crossings caused congestion in the celbridge area, I simply said it has made it worse. If you put trust into the people who are developing the traffic managment solutions, I would strongly suggest you go down to celbridge mainstreet, stand there for 10 minutes at either 8 AM or 5-6 PM and take a look at the traffic. Now, after doing this, take a step back and think, why would you put the same people who should be managing the traffic solutions in charge of peoples lives, because thats what you have done. Let me know your outcome, I am interested to know what you think.

Thank you for at least telling me the street lighting will be reviewed.

But, as I have said already, I have made my warning clear, as you and your colleague have both replied, I take this as acknowledgement.

Now, my final word on the topic. (which I have mentioned before) If this does cost a life for you people to wake up and do somthing about it. I will make very sure the public know that Kildare county council were made aware of the danger and chose to ignore it.

Dear Mr X

Thank you for your email below and its contents are noted.

<snip>
Senior Executive Engineer
Traffic Management Section
Transportation Department
Kildare County Council

Joe Public

Just curious why you go through Celbridge to get to Castletown House, is it not handier to get to the M4 interchange via the Maynooth rd. in Leixlip? I'm presuming you drive into Castletown House via HP/Castletown Hse access road.

I haven't heard anyone complaining that the new pedestrian crossings were causing extra traffic congestion but it is possible.
Don't mention traffic lights in Celbridge following the debacle of the last attempt to control the bridge traffic.
The type of pedestrian crossings you are alluding to are called pelican crossings and that is the type I thought were going to be installed and would prefer. I don't know the reasons why they were not installed and the zebra crossings chosen instead.

Before the new crossings were installed it was much more difficult for pedestrians to cross the roads around the bridge area. There are five roads pedestrians have to encounter in the area and zebra crossings have been installed on four of them. I personally find them very convenient and have heard the same from many other people. The flashing amber lights alert drivers to the crossings but it's also up to pedestrians not to cross until it is safe to do so. A speeding vehicle with careless driver coming around a blind corner was always a problem while trying to cross the road on either side of the bridge. The addition of amber flashing lights is an extra warning to motorists to expect pedestrians. It would definitely help to have the crossings areas better lit at night.

I'm not sure if moving the crossings further out would help as people often prefer to cross roads without going out of their way. More careful people would go the extra distance to cross more safely.

I do see a definite problem with the crossing on the Hazelhatch Rd. and have witnessed some issues. When vehicles are coming off the Hatch Rd they park on the crossing while waiting to move out. In the opposite direction when traffic is coming from Celbridge and driving on to the Hatch Rd. they have too much to monitor and have to quickly get out of the way of oncoming traffic from Lucan direction. At the same time a pedestrian on the crossing has to move fast as they may not be seen by a driver trying to watch out for the oncoming traffic. Something that would help to alleviate this problem is to make the Hatch Rd no entry and access to be via the Shinkeen Rd.

There are probably good reasons why zebra crossings were chosen rather than pelican crossings but I don't know what they are. If you are making further communications with the traffic experts please ask them that question, I don't want to email them.
I feel that pelican crossings may disrupt the flow of traffic more than zebra crossings as the traffic would be stopped for longer periods, but that's only my guess. Experts can spend much time studying traffic flows and how best to tune them and probably have complicated formulas for calculating the optimum performance depending on levels of traffic and much other criteria so I don't really want to go there.

tvnutz

I said the same when I saw them go up. I havn't seen any proof they have caused any traffic congestion,so I have no worries there,but the positioning of them on the Grove side of the bridge is very dangerous IMO. They are far too close to the junction, someone will get hit at some point.

Even 10 yards back on all 3 that side of the bridge would have been fine, people would cope with going that much out of their way. When trying to get across that juntion going right, people are looking several ways and trying to find an opening,at some stage a driver will not look up in time or be able to stop in time in their haste to get across the road.

Shane A

Karlitto, you're absolutely right about the zebra crossings, I have witnessed a couple of near misses there also. I know there has been correspondence with other residents in the area and we are working with a local representative on the issue. PM me if you wish to add your voice.

Joe Public

It's only fair to add that without the new crossings it was much more difficult to cross the roads and there were many near misses. Lack of lighting at night is something that would need to be addressed. If the crossings were a little further out many people would not bother to use them, especially younger people.

Buffman

I also had concerns about these crossings when I fist saw them, mainly the Hazelhatch road one.

Joe Public wrote: »

I do see a definite problem with the crossing on the Hazelhatch Rd. and have witnessed some issues. When vehicles are coming off the Hatch Rd they park on the crossing while waiting to move out. In the opposite direction when traffic is coming from Celbridge and driving on to the Hatch Rd. they have too much to monitor and have to quickly get out of the way of oncoming traffic from Lucan direction. At the same time a pedestrian on the crossing has to move fast as they may not be seen by a driver trying to watch out for the oncoming traffic.

I agree with all of that, this crossing is the most dangerous of the 3, I've witnessed several near misses. Drivers just have too much to concentrate on, and some pedestrians don't pause and look when they pop out from behind the buildings. The crossing gets blocked by traffic, and the lack of dedicated lighting is an issue.

As a driver, I treat this crossing with extreme caution due to the lack of visibility of any pedestrians approaching the crossing when coming from Hazelhatch direction, and equally so when turning from the bridge towards Hazelhatch you have to check the crossing is clear before starting the turn to avoid blocking the junction.

The only saving grace for the crossings is the slow speed of most vehicles using that junction.

Joe Public wrote: »

Something that would help to alleviate this problem is to make the Hatch Rd no entry and access to be via the Shinkeen Rd.

I often thought something like that would improve traffic flow in general, reducing the 5 approach roads to the bridge to 4 would have to help.

Some random photos of 2 of the crossings on daft for those who aren't familiar with them. The one on the right is the Hazelhatch one.

Shane A

I think the idea of restricting traffic going up the Hazelhatch road and having them divert at Shinkeen Road is positive. This was brought about via road repairs several years ago and worked well. Regards the crossing, stronger lighting and prior notification of the crossings for traffic would help. They seem to be badly planned as is.

Karlitto

Hey folks,

Been kinda restricted on the whole internet access side of things.

Ok, so, let me try and get through your replies.

Shane A, absoloutely! I will send you a PM after this.

Joe, I travel down that way when I am meeting a friend at the church, we take turns

As I have said, I do think somthing was needed, but remember, goinging from having nothing to having a bad solution is not good enough. This is still highly dangerous for padestrians AND motorists.

Don't get me wrong here, it is good that they came up with an idea, but not exactly a logical one.

Now, as I have also mentioned, I am not here to come up with a "better idea" although, I have made a suggestion, my argument here is, i have gone to the county council to highligh (what I consider at least) a huge public safety risk and was basically told to **** off.

These two individuals took the defensive stance and preached to me about how they are right and how I am wrong.

Weather it be closing off the HH road, putting two sets of traffic lights in that work in conjunction with eachother, I don't know, but there is a solution, these guys are being paid to figure out the safest solution and have failed but stand by their bad work.

I do wish to note, as you can see I have told them that if this costs a life I will make sure everyone knows about it. I meant it.

Cathal Byrne

I found this previous post about the junction and thought it interesting. Certainly it is linked because it describes the difficulties drivers faced at the junction very well prior to the Zebra Crossings being installed. If you don't have to navigate through here regularly, then it’s hard to imagine. Especially not that the Zebra crossing add several more considerations drivers have to make over a matter of seconds

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78142642

I had witnessed and experiences near misses at the junction and it prompted me to contact all the local Councillors and Kildare County council to express my concerns about the safety at the junction. I also wanted to suggest an alternative, which I believe would bring more harmony at the junction, even with the Zebra crossings.

I was contacted very quickly by Councillors Frank O'Rourke and Kevin Byrne (no relation). The response and engagement has been great.

Then, the other evening I met with Cllr Byrne and we walked through the zone. He listened very attentively to what I had to say. During this time, we observed the real difficulties drivers face, near misses and all… Though more importantly - when crossing the Newtown Zebra crossing, we stared down the barrel of an oncoming car. The car came from the bridge and was making the hard right turn onto the Newtown Rd. I presume the driver saw a gap and made the turn only to turn and face us crossing the road. I'm delighted to say he stopped in time, but I would call it a 'close call'.

I want to thank Cllr Byrne at this time for proposing we meet and observe the junction in real time. We chose the evening time when lighting was poor and traffic heavy. - Lets apply the pressure now to solve this. The solution is so obvious its blinding.

My original letter below


From: Cathal Byrne
Sent: 14 January 2013 15:56
To: 'roads@kildarecoco.ie'; 'byrnekevin1@eircom.net'; 'griffins@eircom.net'; 'jmcginley@eircom.net'; 'cpurcelllabour@eircom.net'; 'frankorourke1@gmail.com'; 'larkinanto@gmail.com'

Subject: Celbridge - New and Precarious Zebra Crossings on converging roads...
Importance: High


Dear sir/madam,

I write to you about the new Zebra Crossings placed where the Dublin road (R403), Hazel Hatch road (R405), Newtown road and Celbridge bridge converge.
Since the Zebra crossings have become active, I have witnessed several near misses on pedestrians where extremely low lighting in the evening makes pedestrians virtually invisible.
Despite slowing down and using caution, I have almost failed to notice a pedestrian despite being observant and am compelled to write as this is a certain danger that will lead to injury or worse.

I honestly believe that the decision to install so many Zebra Crossings in locations where drivers vigilance are already stretched due to the number of roads converging and cars jostling to merge or move out is a mistake.
Furthermore, the traffic congestion in mornings and evenings is now much worse as a result. I am a resident of Abbey Farm on the Clane road and I am working for Hewlett Packard in Lexilip. It is now taking 30 minutes to make a 5 minute journey.
Congestion on the Celbridge bridge caused by traffic wishing to cutover to the Hazel Hatch road, now also burdened by the Zebra crossings has led to the increased times.

Over recent years, I have noticed attempts by local authorities to install some form of management at this junction, but been removed as a result of it failing to provide a solution.
I’m sure there are good reasons for this, namely a lack of expertise to assess the environment – a ’give that a go’ trial and error perhaps?
I’m doing my best to be diplomatic here, but even as a layman I can see that removing access to the Hazel Hatch road at this junction would eliminate traffic congestion and improve safety options.
An alternative route/diversion exists with little adjustment needed and involves forcing traffic up the Dublin road, turning right at Wolstans Court traffic lights.

[Local councillors; if common sense shall not prevail, I implore you to act and lobby the Senior Executive Officer in the manor stated on Kildare County councils website if that is what is needed. - See below. I will happily assist with the petition].

Extinguishment of a Public Right of Way
An application to extinguish a public right of way should be made in writing to the Senior Executive Officer, Transportation Department.
The applications should be accompanied by a petition signed by the residents concerned/affected indicating their support for the proposal and their reason for seeking to have the public right of way extinguished.

daheff

HI Cathal,

I fully agree with your plan on removing the access to the Hazelhatch road from coming over the bridge. I've been saying that for years to people.


The other thing I would do is to close off the road from Clane into Celbridge village. Force traffic to go down by Tesco and then into the village. This would make the traffic flow out of Celbridge much better (As the main body of traffice through the village wouldnt need to give right of way to traffic coming in from Clane going over the bridge).

Peppa Pig

daheff wrote: »

The other thing I would do is to close off the road from Clane into Celbridge village. Force traffic to go down by Tesco and then into the village. This would make the traffic flow out of Celbridge much better (As the main body of traffice through the village wouldnt need to give right of way to traffic coming in from Clane going over the bridge).

The Clane traffic could turn onto church road and come out at english row, unless you closed that road off as well, which isn't really feasible.

Until I saw the pictures posted above I was unsure where the zebras were. The one outside the Mucky Duck is bad enough but those two are lethal

Joe Public

daheff wrote: »

HI Cathal,

The other thing I would do is to close off the road from Clane into Celbridge village. Force traffic to go down by Tesco and then into the village. This would make the traffic flow out of Celbridge much better (As the main body of traffice through the village wouldnt need to give right of way to traffic coming in from Clane going over the bridge).

Probably better to make the Main St one way Eastbound only and Maynooth Rd traffic heading out of Celbridge to use the M4, anything to help ease through traffic on the Main St.

The Shinkeen Rd option for access to Hazelhatch Rd has been on the cards for years but never implemented. I hear Frank O'Rourke is pushing to make it happen.

Cathal Byrne

Joe Public wrote: »

I hear Frank O'Rourke is pushing to make it happen.

Cllr O'Rourke is a good man and I hope he grabs the bull by the horns.

Some additional alternatives are being proposed to make the traffic flow better, though I believe safety is paramount and so we should focus on this junction first.

That said, preventing traffic from cutting over to the Hazelhatch road would prevent much of the build-up on the Liffey bridge, which extends on out the Clane road. - This build-up obviously then has a knock-on effect to the main street as it must yield. I'm confident two solutions exist in one action.

Some additional tweaking of the light sequences would be required at.

1. Junction of R403 and Shinkeen Road – to allow greater times outbound and right filter in the mornings.
2. Signal controlled Cross-road Junction of R403 and R404 (Barnhall junction)
3. Signal controlled junction at R403 and N4 motorway bridge.

Oh hai

I drive through both crossings a few times a day and I've seen countless near misses on the Hazlehatch Road one. I'm actually surprised no pedestrians have been hit by cars yet! Maybe it's a case of the locals getting used to them but it's worrying how many near misses I alone have seen since they've gone up. I haven't noticed traffic being any worse but the safety issue is a concern.

baaba maal

In relation to the idea of traffic lights at the junction- this was tried a few years ago and was designed by Ove Arup on behalf of the council. They were switched off after a short while because it apparently wasn't possible to configure them without large tailbacks occuring. The isue is simply that the bridge was designed at a time when the only traffic hazard you would face was stepping in horses**t.
What is needed (and remains as longterm plans) is to provide another crossing- from a logistical point of view, near Castletown would make sense- there are issues of course with this from a heritage/town planning perspective.
I can't offer any suggestion other than what others are proposing i.e. to move the zebra crossings an/or improve lighting. I would take issue with the OP saying that they received a generic response. They may disagree with the content, but the cumulative responses did set out to reply to the issues raised. A generic response (to me anyway) is where you are told "your concerns have been noted" without giving more detail and in fairness I do think that time was taken to respond.

Joe Public

I'm just after driving past the new crossings at 2am and took good note of the lighting on each, as it was nice and quiet, and now I think the lighting is fairly good at them all. I said to myself that even if someone was dressed in all black I should have no trouble in seeing them and if not I probably should not be driving.

Joe Public

Further observations - re. the new crossing on the Clane Rd I notice many people, young and old alike, when walking from the foot bridge and crossing the road towards the Mucky Duck side they don't bother with the new crossing but continue to walk straight across the road. The same goes for many who cross over from The Mucky Duck side. Some here were arguing that the new crossings should be further out the roads but from what I am witnessing I feel they will be even less used than at present.

Karlitto

Hi Joe,

I fully agree, pushing them back could be a solution for the visibility for the drivers to see the padestrians, however, will people walk the extra few meters? Doubtful.

CathalByrne

Hi Joe,

I'm still seeing a number of near misses, particularly when cars are coming from the Liffey Bridge and accelerate past The Abbey Lodge.
I wonder if there has been any further thought or progress by the Councillors in relation to the layout of the junction.

Remembering that the Zebra crossings are not yet apart of this cocktail below

Riskymove

Joe Public wrote: »

I'm just after driving past the new crossings at 2am and took good note of the lighting on each, as it was nice and quiet, and now I think the lighting is fairly good at them all. I said to myself that even if someone was dressed in all black I should have no trouble in seeing them and if not I probably should not be driving.

I think the problems are worsened by how the junctions at the bridge operate for traffic. You can spend a long time waiting for an opportunity to turn and sometimes have only a short time to move.

as a driver you must watch traffic from two roads in order to take the turn and then you can suddenly find yourself on top of one of the crossings immediately after taking the manouver.

I have found myself feet away from pedestrians who have stepped out as I made the turn and having to stop quickly. It doesnt help that traffic can be coming quickly behind me and they too can be forced to stop or swerve.

the crossing at McNamees is also just around a bend for drivers coming from the village

so its not really the lighting but more that you are turning onto the crossings. if they were a few yards more up the road it would not be such a problem

Joe Public

They are like any zebra crossings except they are in tighter situations. With zebra crossings both drivers and pedestrians need to take more care than with pelican crossings. The Hazelhatch Rd. junction should definitely be closed off to inbound traffic.

Karlitto

Hey Folks,

Recieved a mail from Cllr Kevin Byrne last week:

HI KARL,
I RECEIVED WORD THAT THE COUNCIL WILL CARRY OUT A SAFETY CHECK ON DANGEROUS CROSSINGS ASAP.
KEVIN

Good news

Shane A

Looks good. I think it would be better to do a safety check than leave as is and hope for the best. Prevention is the best form of cure in this case.

Joe Public

Have a look at the antics at this zebra crossing, it put ours in the halpenny place.

Zebra Crossing in London

Peppa Pig

Joe Public wrote: »

Have a look at the antics at this zebra crossing, it put ours in the halpenny place.

Zebra Crossing in London

Is that not a live web-cam?

Joe Public

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Is that not a live web-cam?

It is live and by viewing it for a while you will see all the issues generally associated with zebra crossings.

It is the Abbey Road zebra crossing made famous by The Beatles so that accounts for much of the antics of the "tourists" but you can still see a lot close shaves happening regardless of the "tourists".

paddythe goat

re crossings all close to dangerous liffey bridge....i agree with other writers...they are way too close to series of dangerous junctions...sightlines are too poor especially on lucan road side...hatchroad side and ardclough/newtown road side.....somebody will be killed or get a serious injury at one of these points....set outside duck pub not the worst but could be moved 10 to 15m closer to mill entrance and away from bridge area........biggest change i would make is pelican instead of zebra....copy ones outside church and st brigids school on main st....you press you wait 10 secs and you cross with some degree of safety..... to all drivers and pedestrians....biggest change required is much wider new bridge or extension to old battered that exists....being talked about since 80s but no action.....copy one as in newbridge co kildare also over liffey built i understand in 2006 by ove arup....nice and wide and with cycle lanes on both sides and wide footpaths on both sides and with good selection of lanes for traffic coming into town and going out of town..........go see.. and be ready for local election knockers when they call to your door over next 6 weeks....celbridge deserves easy access...stop delays on buses and on cars and to persons walking and on bikes....

OldmanMondeo

I use that junction ever week morning and evening as a motorist and my wife as a pedestrain. The only problem I see with these is the drivers ignoring them when people are crossing. There has been several near misses that both my wife and I have seen, my wife has been subject to some of them.

The thing Celbridge needs is traffic enforcement during rush hour. A Garda watching the crossings and doing the odd check on cars parked on the double yellow line outside the spar. Box junction usage also needs to be addressed, too many cars stopping in them and blocking traffic looking to turn.

Joe Public

paddythe goat wrote: »

.....copy one as in newbridge co kildare also over liffey built i understand in 2006 by ove arup....nice and wide and with cycle lanes on both sides and wide footpaths on both sides and with good selection of lanes for traffic coming into town and going out of town..........go see.. and be ready for local election knockers when they call to your door over next 6 weeks....celbridge deserves easy access...stop delays on buses and on cars and to persons walking and on bikes....

The Chapelizod bridge type solution has been submitted as a possibility for Celbridge and money allocated for study and design.

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

I use that junction ever week morning and evening as a motorist and my wife as a pedestrain. The only problem I see with these is the drivers ignoring them when people are crossing. There has been several near misses that both my wife and I have seen, my wife has been subject to some of them.

The thing Celbridge needs is traffic enforcement during rush hour. A Garda watching the crossings and doing the odd check on cars parked on the double yellow line outside the spar. Box junction usage also needs to be addressed, too many cars stopping in them and blocking traffic looking to turn.

Without the zebra crossings there were as many if not more near misses. Many people crossing to/from the footbridge/Mucky Duck area don't use the zebra crossing.

Not enough Garda available to do what they are doing at the moment so not likely they will start doing regular traffic management any time in the near future.

paddythe goat

delighted that new report on celbridge narrow liffey bridge is now available... to view in library beside aib....off main st celbridge....we have had many many reports maybe now we will get some action...

was conducted by rps consulting engineers based in dun laoghaire for kcc in naas... rumour is they got 40,000 euro for report...well done boys and girls....
about 100 pages long....they come up with plenty of options....some short term....some long term.....
1, short term..build new bridge at castletown gates...not going to happen....back of queue lads....
2. new bridge parallel to old bridge..same lay out, same stone matcging in with old bridge and mill complex....so we end up with 2 lanes into town and two lanes out of town...old bridge out...new bridge in....room for decent foootpaths and cycle lanes.
3. new bridge opposite grove estate and simmonstown estate heading across river to clane road at raphaels gateway..or into abbey car park on clane road...bit near large residential areas...and would have to cross liffey and mill race...very near old abbey hall and olde stone bridge...
so now over to you...take a look ...have a think...and let your local councillors know what you think...then your tds..then kcc roads dept....

Joe Public

I didn't get to the library yet but anything to do with a second bridge or widening the existing bridge would be a long term solution. A short term solution would be to provide cantilever type footways as in Chapelizod, remove the existing footpath and make Hazelhatch Rd. exit only.
That short term option may be in the report as it was submitted.

mloc123

One simple solution to the bottleneck on the bridge... remove the footpath on one side and have people use the pedestrian bridge only. It will make the bridge 2-3ft wider and allow buses and other large vehicles to pass each other.

paddythe goat

great....now if path removed we have extra full 3 ft.....would help but only very minor help.....when car a...is driving over bridge from main st...he/she wishes to turn to ardclough road direction....he /she holds up all traffic behind.....we need more lanes...one for turning right and up for progress towards lucan.......................

same on return journey....car b...comes over bridge from lucan area...wishes to swing right at bank of ireland heading towards castletown...often he/she can hold up several cars behind who are interested in going towards clane road....so add all this chaos together and u have holds ups most of the time in celbridge.....

we have not yet mentioned oil lorries, delivery business trucks, public buses, private buses, people with trailers,.....afraid its time for real extra width....extra lanes for traffic and pedestrains.....and do not forget all the people on bicycles.....we have put up with narrow bridge since 80s time now for health and safety reasons to improve access and egress for next 50 to 75 years....and yes we will need real ring road out near st wolstans school in next 10 years.....running from hatch to ardclough road to clane road and onwards to maynooth road, linking up with galway road, long term plan in rps report....will happen but not just yet...........see bridge in newbridge co kildare over liffey...we are likely to get similar to nice one at barnhall rugby club /salmon leap canoe club....which if kept close to our existing bridge would make lots of room for all to get in and out in reasonable good time, and not to forget we need safe pedestrian crossings..set back safe distance from new bridge....request lights similar to ones at church on main st middle of town...working well..................keep thinking....we will get there....thank you

Joe Public

I don't think immediate removal of footpath on the bridge would be acceptable, what would people who come around the corner from BOI do if they want to get to other side of the river?

Moving crossings further away from the bridge doesn't mean the people will follow, for example just observe how many people don't use the crossing near the Mucky Duck.

Davidth88

Guys, have you ever tried to cross the road as a pedestrian between the BOI and the ' Russian ' barbers ( as I call it ) , its impossible and dangerous.

I truly don't know what the answer is , the bridge down at the slip is a no go , and I am not sure what I feel about a bridge from the Ardclogh Rd through the St Raphaels land .

Possibly banning people turning down from the village towards Hazelhatch and have them go down towards the Supervalu lights may help ?

One things for sure the crossings there are downright dangerous and poorly positioned , it's a accident waiting to happen.

Riskymove

Davidth88 wrote: »

Guys, have you ever tried to cross the road as a pedestrian between the BOI and the ' Russian ' barbers ( as I call it ) , its impossible and dangerous.

just cross over to the AIB/SPAR side of the road at the crossings

Joe Public

Riskymove wrote: »

just cross over to the AIB/SPAR side of the road at the crossings

There's only one crossing on the Main St and that's back at The Centra.

Riskymove

Joe Public wrote: »

There's only one crossing on the Main St and that's back at The Centra.

yep that's right

although crossing the main st is a lot easier than trying to cross over the bridge to the barbers

Joe Public

Riskymove wrote: »

yep that's right

although crossing the main st is a lot easier than trying to cross over the bridge to the barbers

Maybe 10% would do the sensible thing.

paddythe goat

great that study is underway by rps consulting engineers on behalf of kcc in naas...delayed i understand until EIS is now finished which will give further information on all possible options to be considered by local reps and local councillors and maybe even local tds if they get time to join in.......

MAY NOT BE IN LIBRARY AND ON KILDARE CO CO SITE UNTIL FEBRUARY 2015/////????

we have waited a long time to speed up crossing the liffey in celbridge...another month or two will not cause much harm we hope....
good to see all options getting a fair crack....list advantages and disadvantages of each...no more closed minds please.....all will have supporters and dissenters....all must get fair play and have their say...............
hope we get bridge that will allow fair and safe passage for all...those in cars.buses, trucks, children going to school, persons on bicycles...persons out for a walk. people doing business on main st, people just wishing to move about with minimium delays, most of the time....
of course no one solution will rid celbridge of all delays but wider and proper bridge with proper width footpaths and cycle lanes would be great start.....that is one of the options....there are others....look forward to full read of report and eis report in due course

paddythe goat

got another look at draft report from rps consulting engineers dun laoghaire....was shocked to read it is they who were working to get bridge at castletown gates in 2009.....conflict of interests comes to mind.............would they have an agenda???
do they have an agenda??.....................wonder wonder......

how the hell did they get gig from kcc........would love to know who proposed them and who seconded that proposal??? that would be interesting.....any body know....please spill................
do we have any other similar companies in ireland??
who build super bridge up on galway road....who designed that one...no problems up there.......................................link to celbridge and castleown house and hp...all good.....any know.....name of company....??

why no aerial photos in rps report??
why no mock up photos on how each option would look?
why no details on exactly where they wish to break into ardclough road and where they wish to break out on clane road??
quality of photos in draft plan...very poor....like camera phone...maybe better in real report that will come soon with full EIS report.........?????????

paddythe goat

great to see long awaited report on narrow liffey bridge is finally available for all to see and read in the library...also on the web....under kildare co co and then roads dept...................200 pages long ............full of details..and 6 options on how to improve celbridge traffic flows....................go read and make up your mind...then contact kcc............and local councillors and all local tds asap.

paddythe goat

option 1.....try and improve present bridge by taking away small footpath...stick traffic lights on bridge again............do you remember what happened last time.....a disaster....maybe stick walkway on to one side of bridge for predestrians...............rps says only short term option........

option 2...........put in parallel bridge to old bridge....two lanes into town and two lanes out of town....mini roadabouts on each side..lucan side and main st....bridge to be built in sympathy to old bridge .same granite stone and matching in with mill complex....two new footpaths....two new cycle lanes....page 103 of report gives list of benefits to celbridge to economy.business and tourism....buses no longer get stuck on narrow bridge...

option 3a and 3b.....new bridge at castletown gates....4,000 objections last time....should not surprise rps..they were planners for last attempt.....

option 4....new bridge near esso petrol station on clane road over to ardclough road..tro abbey farm estate......

option 5...long term plan..new bridge close to wolstans school over to ardclough road at chelmsford estate...and on to newcastle road/hatch road....kind of mini ring road for whole town..probably will be needed in next 10 years................??

option 6..........rps choice...new bridge running from abbey car park near mill complex to ardclough road..near old abbey hall protected structure,,and near olde rock bridge( not in use)another protected structure....very close to grove estate entrance and simmonstown estate......lots of trees would need to be felled....has to cross liffey and mill race.....lose car park on clane road.........rps like this option....do u???

thats the choices...please pick which one u like....let kcc know in writing....roads dept/planning sections..........all local councillors in celbridge and leixlip area...and all local tds..............
good luck...................................................

Stealthirl

Link to the pdf is http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/RoadsandTransportation/TrafficManagementPlans/Celbridge%20River%20Crossong%20Feasibility%20Report%202015.pdf

In my opinion whats needed is a combination of 3a/3B with ether options 4,5 or 6 and upgrade the Newtown rd from the bridge to Templemills [Remove the boundary wall that is almost collapsed and has be patched extensively thus allowing a wider road,path and cycle way]
I know this Rd has a speed issue but if upgraded it could allow for traffic calming measures.
The existing bridge could be closed to traffic and become pedestrian/cycle way thus allowing preservation and removing a risky area/traffic hot spot.
Traffic could then flow around the Main St and only the traffic the needs to transit via the main street would be present if that makes sense.

An added bennifit would be the 67 bus could run up to Templemills across to Esso back via the Main St and onto the Maynooth Rd,a lot more estates would then be near to a bus stop and may remove congestion at the carry out bus stop.

Traffic using the Mynooth Rd would cross at the slip to get onto the Dublin Rd a filter lain for Castle town and the main street could be used or a mini roundabout

Click to get a slightly large version
Red is option 3B+4 with Newtown rd upgrade and is what i would like to see
Orange is option 5
Dark red is option 6

Celbridge Ring Rd by stealthirl, on Flickr

Hopefully that will make sense to someone,im off to bed now :cool:

paddythe goat

problems still exist...have read new bridge report in library in celbridge 7 options to improve traffic flows around main st....i like option number 2....new bridge close to and parallel to old bridge..similar design....two lanes into the town on new bridge...............2 lanes out of town on old bridge............plus new footpaths and new cycle lanes..rough deign to back of report..................plus new mini roundabouts on each side of bridge.....new pedestrian crossings with proper sightlines....................like it....but when ??? may we get this..................