West Of Ireland

Rikand

I know its about 9-10 weeks away still, but they have a new format for qualifying

http://gui.ie/home/news/new-format-for-west.aspx

14 January 2013
New Format for West

A new qualifying structure has been put in place for the The West of Ireland Amateur Open Championship, and will remain as a trial for this year and next.

117 entrants will earn a place in the field under existing qualifying conditions for the traditional first day of the event on Good Friday (29th March).

A new qualifying round for the next 81 entrants in handicap order will take place on the preceding Wednesday, with the top three players gaining a place in the starting field proper.

For more details, contact Enda Lonergan in the GUI Connacht Branch, guicb1@eircom.net or call 094 9028141.

I guess it's kind of interesting, but you'd imagine there would be a lot of people around scratch/1 who wouldn't bother having a go at this seeing as there is only top 3 who get in out of 81 players, so any of our lower fellas here thinking they might have a sneaky dart at entering off 1/2/3/4 ?

I dont think I'll make a run at it this year, but maybe next year

gorfield

Absolute shocker of a decision. Completely unfair on people looking for time off work who will now need to be in Sligo on the Tuesday!! Bye bye to the true amateur.

big_drive

So you'd have to go on the wednesday and then if all went well you'd have to be there for the friday? If it didn't then off you go home again

Be hard to plan around that in fairness.

gorfield

big_drive wrote: »

So you'd have to go on the wednesday and then if all went well you'd have to be there for the friday? If it didn't then off you go home again

Be hard to plan around that in fairness.

Tuesday as youd be afforded a practice rd prior to the qualifier, there's many negatives to it to be honest.

Rikand

I'd say a lot of people that live far away wont bother with it at all if they dont get in in the top 117. You probably wont even fill out the top 81 or if they do, it'll be filled with local fellas who play off 1 - 5 who wouldnt mind taking their chances.

At least you dont have to worry about it Gorfield, you'll be good to get in in the top 117 for a long time yet

TheGolfer01

gorfield wrote: »

Tuesday as youd be afforded a practice rd prior to the qualifier, there's many negatives to it to be honest.

Depends on how you look at it really, it gives another 81 guys an opportunity to play that they ordinarily wouldn't have had, that can only be a good thing IMO.

Rikand

big_drive wrote: »

So you'd have to go on the wednesday and then if all went well you'd have to be there for the friday? If it didn't then off you go home again

Be hard to plan around that in fairness.

Of course this is at easter anyways, a lot of people could be off work regardless

PGF

gorfield wrote: »

Absolute shocker of a decision. Completely unfair on people looking for time off work who will now need to be in Sligo on the Tuesday!! Bye bye to the true amateur.

I'd say fair play to them for trying something new. They can always tweak it in the following years based on feedback.

gorfield

PGF wrote: »

I'd say fair play to them for trying something new. They can always tweak it in the following years based on feedback.

Proving v unpopular among players tbh. Usually 4-5 players at least get in off reserve list. So if they now make the reserve list redundant and turn it into an 81 man 18h shoot out for 3 spots and you were on the bubble for hcap getting in its pretty harsh. Also 3 get in, then 4th-81st then becomes the new reserve list going on scores from the qualifier, so u cud be basically the unlucky one that just misses out on the main draw and have only a tiny chance of playing, where usually you'd always get in due to withdrawals etc. also you are at the mercy of the weather that day as in getting a good draw weather wise. Also it's €50 to enter the west so 81 x €50= €4050 extra entries.

PGF

gorfield wrote: »

Proving v unpopular among players tbh. Usually 4-5 players at least get in off reserve list. So if they now make the reserve list redundant and turn it into an 81 man 18h shoot out for 3 spots and you were on the bubble for hcap getting in its pretty harsh. Also 3 get in, then 4th-81st then becomes the new reserve list going on scores from the qualifier, so u cud be basically the unlucky one that just misses out on the main draw and have only a tiny chance of playing, where usually you'd always get in due to withdrawals etc. also you are at the mercy of the weather that day as in getting a good draw weather wise. A closed door decision without any players opinion being asked for. Also it's €50 to enter the west so 81 x €50= €4050 extra entries.

Good response. Different story when you know all the facts!

Paulusmaximus

I know where gorfield is coming from on this but I welcome the decision to increase the numbers who can play. I'm off 1.7 and been around that for the last few years.

I've yet to play in a championship as I've never been low enough. (exception of the north which I haven't travelled too).

Now I have a chance to play. It's not great odds to qualify but it's a chance compared to previous years.

Yes the people on the bubble are going to feel a bit peeved but that's really only 4/5 players, this is catering for 81 players.

There is the issue of time off work which would result in my case taking 3/4 days off work but to play in one of the championships Im prepared to make that sacrifice.

gorfield

I completely see your point of view also Paul!! And there will be legitimate arguments both ways! I think it's going to hurt the tournament however.
A solution for all tournaments IMHO, is to have a full order of merit for each year with say 144 players "keeping their card" for the following year allowing them enter cships. this eliminates the hcap cheats and will reward good cship golf year on year. It might also re-ignite some of the great scratch cups of years gone by.....

Rikand

gorfield wrote: »

I completely see your point of view also Paul!! And there will be legitimate arguments both ways! I think it's going to hurt the tournament however.
A solution for all tournaments IMHO, is to have a full order of merit for each year with say 144 players "keeping their card" for the following year allowing them enter cships. this eliminates the hcap cheats and will reward good cship golf year on year. It might also re-ignite some of the great scratch cups of years gone by.....

I like this idea. The Senior Scratch Cup is something that has fallen by the wayside big time in the last couple of years. i think we are cancelling our own one in Athlone this year because it was costing too much money to host it. Scratch Cup prize money and then only getting 30 people to show up. On top of that, 10 of those playing in it shouldnt have been anywhere near it at all. ( I was the highest handicapper off 7. I still almost finished in the top 15, heh )

With your idea gorfield, What would happen then for newer players who are coming down in handicap? Would they have to prove themselves first in Scratch Cups before they could become eligible to play in the "Championships" ?

gorfield

There are ways and means, young up and comings could earn invites depending on their underage results, and if they make the cut then get exempt for next tournament etc, there can still be reserve lists just like on tour depending on your status..... Seems really complicated but is actually pretty simple I feel!

gorfield

Views among players very one sided against this new format. The format in the South of Ireland was changed few years ago. During that year every single player was asked their opinion before they teed off to gauge reaction. New format scrapped the following year. Simples..... Ask the players before rash decisions!

ChippingSodbury

gorfield wrote: »

I completely see your point of view also Paul!! And there will be legitimate arguments both ways! I think it's going to hurt the tournament however.
A solution for all tournaments IMHO, is to have a full order of merit for each year with say 144 players "keeping their card" for the following year allowing them enter cships. this eliminates the hcap cheats and will reward good cship golf year on year. It might also re-ignite some of the great scratch cups of years gone by.....

I think the card system or some variant would be a good idea. I don't play often enough anymore to see what kind of handicap skullduggery is going on but I'm a local and some of the 2 round scores that are posted by supposed players off < 1 are laughable given that the course is at its most benign i.e. before the rough has started to grow and the greens firmed up.

Having said that, the idea of an 81 man shoot-out is a good one because it gives guys who can play links golf a fighting chance at qualifying. Maybe it could be held the weekend before rather than during the week.

No, I won't be entering the shoot-out:)

Sligored

Dont agree with the new change , as it will be a logistical nightmare for some , but i suppose trying it for one year wont do any harm.
Find it hard to believe that you have to pay 50 to play one championship round with a 1 in 27 chance of qualifying for the championship proper

tylrmd

I have a sneaky feeling TheGolfer001 has a vested interest in the prequalifier to the qualifier at the West. Its totally absurd and good luck filling the 81 spots, the Sligo Pierce Purcell panel will get draughted in to fill up the numbers..

Rikand

tylrmd wrote: »

I have a sneaky feeling TheGolfer001 has a vested interest in the prequalifier to the qualifier at the West. Its totally absurd and good luck filling the 81 spots, the Sligo Pierce Purcell panel will get draughted in to fill up the numbers..

think i might wait till a week before the tournament and depending on how my assignments are going, give them a shout then about playing

tylrmd

Lastminute.com id say is your best bet. Unfortunately its come to that level.

Rikand

it appears thegolfers post has disappeared

shabalala

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

think i might wait till a week before the tournament and depending on how my assignments are going, give them a shout then about playing

I'd say you'll have to enter by the usual closing date. I think it's a pure scam that's going on, purely a money spinner and a hitler moment from the tournament organiser. Im 0.6 hcap and I'd usually always get in on the reserve list but not I've to enter this 81 man lottery for a few spots while taking extra days off work?? Not a hope, this is a complete no go for anyone who has a job.
A great historic tournament being turned into a circus. V disappointed.

pinkdoubleeagle

shabalala wrote: »

I'd say you'll have to enter by the usual closing date. I think it's a pure scam that's going on, purely a money spinner and a hitler moment from the tournament organiser. Im 0.6 hcap and I'd usually always get in on the reserve list but not I've to enter this 81 man lottery for a few spots while taking extra days off work?? Not a hope, this is a complete no go for anyone who has a job.
A great historic tournament being turned into a circus. V disappointed.

Great post and spot on

onlyfinewine

Sounds very much like the players will have to organise themselves in order to have a voice in the decisions that are being taken.

Something similar to the Tournament Players Division that had to be formed to look after the players interests. It certainly does not sound like much thought has been given to the consequences of the extra costs for amateurs, especially during these recessionary times.

gorfield

onlyfinewine wrote: »

Sounds very much like the players will have to organise themselves in order to have a voice in the decisions that are being taken.

Something similar to the Tournament Players Division that had to be formed to look after the players interests. It certainly does not sound like much thought has been given to the consequences of the extra costs for amateurs, especially during these recessionary times.

There Is zero chance of a group of players being listened to! Zero!!

goodgolfer64

shabalala wrote: »

I'd say you'll have to enter by the usual closing date. I think it's a pure scam that's going on, purely a money spinner and a hitler moment from the tournament organiser. Im 0.6 hcap and I'd usually always get in on the reserve list but not I've to enter this 81 man lottery for a few spots while taking extra days off work?? Not a hope, this is a complete no go for anyone who has a job.
A great historic tournament being turned into a circus. V disappointed.

hate to break it to you but you probably arent gettin in off 0.6 with the way entries been going last few years....,,,,,so this monday qualifier will help you!!!!

goodgolfer64

gotta think that the 3 guys who do go low in prequalifyin will be deserving and obviously in good form for the actual qualifier....though i can see the negative in travelling all the way to rosses for 1 round!!!!! they get charged full price too????surely not

Rikand

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

hate to break it to you but you probably arent gettin in off 0.6 with the way entries been going last few years....,,,,,so this monday qualifier will help you!!!!

Wednesday Qualifier and he cant play in either because he wont get it off work


€50 entry, isnt it ? But they'll get to play practice round on tuesday probably aswell. Sure take 2 days off work so, no bother

Rikand

Which is why I'm actually considering entering. There'll be so many people that wont be able to play because of work, then a load of fellas off 2/3/4 who wont bother cause they wont think they'll get in, I might actually get in. Be a great experience

gorfield

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

Which is why I'm actually considering entering. There'll be so many people that wont be able to play because of work, then a load of fellas off 2/3/4 who wont bother cause they wont think they'll get in, I might actually get in. Be a great experience

It's quite plausible that an 18hcap can enter, as long as he's in the 81 reserves hel get a free round Tuesday and a competitive round wed, and a story to tell the grand kids about the time he played in the west of Ireland!! Circus is right as one poster called it.

Rikand

gorfield wrote: »

It's quite plausible that an 18hcap can enter, as long as he's in the 81 reserves hel get a free round Tuesday and a competitive round wed, and a story to tell the grand kids about the time he played in the west of Ireland!! Circus is right as one poster called it.

And get a lucky day, I might qualify too Looking forward to grouping with you on the first tee on friday

goodgolfer64

gorfield wrote: »

It's quite plausible that an 18hcap can enter, as long as he's in the 81 reserves hel get a free round Tuesday and a competitive round wed, and a story to tell the grand kids about the time he played in the west of Ireland!! Circus is right as one poster called it.

hey easy now .....while its not right charging full $$$$$ for 1 round of golf....it does give the 1 H/Cs a chance to prove themselves.....
how many on the 0.3 -.0.6 are minding their handicap......least this will sort the boys from the men,...

ssbob

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

hey easy now .....while its not right charging full $$$$$ for 1 round of golf....it does give the 1 H/Cs a chance to prove themselves.....
how many on the 0.3 -.0.6 are minding their handicap......least this will sort the boys from the men,...

Guys can ye explain to me why those from 0.3 - 0.6 are miding their handicaps?

Earlier in the thread ye spoke of "Handicap Skulduggery", surely people who are not able to play to scratch/1/2 wouldn't even consider entering this event? I know there is a prestige element to it but no point gloating about a "Prestiguos 85" (From someone who is a high handicapper)

gorfield

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

hey easy now .....while its not right charging full $$$$$ for 1 round of golf....it does give the 1 H/Cs a chance to prove themselves.....
how many on the 0.3 -.0.6 are minding their handicap......least this will sort the boys from the men,...

You know(whoever u are) and I (who thanks you for the surname) know rightly that 18h in possibly stupid conditions cannot possibly seperate "men from boys" itl be a draw lottery and will certainly put anyone off that dosnt make the main draw.
Anyone borderline I've spoken to has said if they don't make the main draw they're not travelling as 3 spots from 81 is not worth taking two extra days off for.
I personally think its gonna be a disaster, which is a pity as its a great championship.

m r c

Not cool naming people on this thread IMHO.

Rikand

ssbob wrote: »

Guys can ye explain to me why those from 0.3 - 0.6 are miding their handicaps?

Earlier in the thread ye spoke of "Handicap Skulduggery", surely people who are not able to play to scratch/1/2 wouldn't even consider entering this event? I know there is a prestige element to it but no point gloating about a "Prestiguos 85" (From someone who is a high handicapper)

I know of a few people who are off around scratch that dont play anywhere near it when it comes to the championships. They'll enter a few open days on short open courses where they can hammer the ball as hard as they like, get near the green with their tee shots, shoot a few under par there and then when they go to the big tournies, shoot 80-80 every single time.

Not naming any names, but I know of one particular +handicap golfer who is on about his 4th or 5th different golf club because he was doing exactly this and was "moved on" by his club after a few years .....

AGC

Havent't read the ins and outs of it bar what is on here. The field will be 171 +3 from the 81 qualifying. If people pull out before qualifying starts from the main field do they promote the next highest handicap and he does not have to qualify or do they give an extra place to qualifying?

It will be carnage. I played in the West a couple of times when I was younger, out to 1.6 now and I wouldn't bother travelling to try get in through qualifying, certainly not for 3 places.

It's a crazy situation, was it Rory Leonard a couple of years ago who won it when he was 1st on the waiting list?

gorfield

AGC wrote: »

Havent't read the ins and outs of it bar what is on here. The field will be 171 +3 from the 81 qualifying. If people pull out before qualifying starts from the main field do they promote the next highest handicap and he does not have to qualify or do they give an extra place to qualifying?

It will be carnage. I played in the West a couple of times when I was younger, out to 1.6 now and I wouldn't bother travelling to try get in through qualifying, certainly not for 3 places.

It's a crazy situation, was it Rory Leonard a couple of years ago who won it when he was 1st on the waiting list?

It's 117 +3 invites +3 from the wed lottery. Also any past winner who's within 1.0 of the cutoff. Smaller field this year as its early.

Rikand

gorfield wrote: »

+3 invites

that's the 3 invites for people under 18 , isnt it ?

we were hoping that Sean Doyle out of Athlone would get in on this. Just turned 14 years of age, playing off 3 and won the Ballinrobe Senior Scratch Cup last year with a 71

Paulusmaximus

m r c wrote: »

Not cool naming people on this thread IMHO.

This should be editted in fairness, i know some people will know who is who here, but it should still be an anonymous forum.

Back onto the west....there is usually a waiting list of 40 odd people who are all within a couple of .1's of the cut off. How they differentiate between and rank the 10 guys all on .4 can appear to be unfair. Perhaps what they should have done was have the lowest 100 qualify, plus the 3 invites and then offer 10 places to the Wednesday qualifier. that would then give you a 1 in 8 chance of qualifying and if you are good enough you'll get in.

For those that are opposed to this would you be opposed to the British Open regional and local qualifying???

i'd still predict the cut off for this will still be at most 2.

For the top players, internationals, intropro's etc they are still going to qualify and the qualifier doesn't affect them. Those who i assume are complaining loudest are those close to the bubble, and knowing the handicap system and its manipulation why does it give them the right to play solely because they are 0.2 or 0.3 lower than someone else?

If you are good enough, then you'll qualify.

J6P

Looks like alot of people leaving it to the last minute as was expected...

78 entered so far on the GUI website..thats from a total of 198 (117 + 81 qualifiers) spots that need to be filled by next Friday.

Should be interesting to see how high the cut off goes.

Rikand

still thinking of entering off 5 (5.0). Might do it next week. Sure I'll get my money back if I dont make the cut

pinkdoubleeagle

What do people think will be the cut off to get into the main draw? No chance of going down to play in the pre-qualifying as can't afford to get the time off work.

gorfield

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

What do people think will be the cut off to get into the main draw? No chance of going down to play in the pre-qualifying as can't afford to get the time off work.

Hard to gauge right now given the shocking low amount of entries, this idiotic new system has as expected driven away all the borderline players..... On a normal low field year I'd say 0.3. I'd guess 0.4 tho year maybe sneak .1 higher

link_2007

gorfield wrote: »

Hard to gauge right now given the shocking low amount of entries, this idiotic new system has as expected driven away all the borderline players..... On a normal low field year I'd say 0.3. I'd guess 0.4 tho year maybe sneak .1 higher

The only good thing is that, if people continue to show their opinion by staying away, they should hopefully change it to the original system swifty enough.

TRS30

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

still thinking of entering off 5 (5.0). Might do it next week. Sure I'll get my money back if I dont make the cut

Might as well, are 5 guys off 5 already entered.

PARlance

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

still thinking of entering off 5 (5.0).

TRS30 wrote: »

Might as well, are 5 guys off 5 already entered.

Think Ricky was just be specific about his his exact HC there.

tylrmd

Once you enter this year say good bye to your money. Thats the whole scam, once your name goes down so does your money unless you cancel before closing date or you don't make the prequalifier.

TRS30

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Think Ricky was just be specific about his his exact HC there.

You lost me (easily done!)

Five guys have entered who are playing off 5 similar to Ricky was what I was trying to say

Rikand

yeah I saw there was a couple of guys off 5.0 too, which is why I said the 5.0. Have as much chance as them of getting in

TRS30

If someone higer than me (6.6) enters I might as well