Drink Driving and urine samples

colbully

hi,this is really my first thread on boards.ie and what a first thread its going to be .. anyways the other night i was having a meal and a few glasses of wine at my gf's house at around 9pm and during the night we had an argument over something silly and i left to drive home which was 30 minutes from her house.. now i know i shouldnt have done this and i feel terrible for doing it, and infact i think i deserve some sort of punishment as i know that drink driving causes tons of accidents and deaths every year.. anyways i had only 3-5 glasses of wine and around the same amount in glasses of water plus the food we had.. i left at around 12.30am to drive home, and a few mile from her house, two garda cars appeared out of no where and formed a barracade on the road and blocked me!! i was so shocked. they askedme to get out of the car and asked mehad i drank,,and i told them i had,,then ten breathlysed me ,by the side of the road which read positive.. so i got into the garda car and went to the station and proceeded to answer all the questins asked.. i then was told i would have to preform another test in the station, which i agreeded to do.. Then it turned out the machine in the station was faulty, so a doctor had to be rang to come and take a blood/urine samp from me...i was brought into the station at 12.30pm and the doctor didnt arrive until 3.20am !! so at this stage i felt 100percent sober..i gave my urine sample and i was let go,,at 3.45am.. my question is ,,whas going t happed next for me ???!!! as im absolutley worried sick.. Im 27 and ive a full license the last 8 years..ive never ever been in trouble with the law,,infact ive never even given a statement before!! i need my license for my job and im panickingthat this may turn out bad for me..im a fairly well built guy im 90 plus kg in weight,,i train alot and i eat clean and only drink the odd occasion and im hoping my body will have passed most of the alcohol i consumed,,sorry for the long post but im truly lost now

seamus

All you can do is wait for the results of the urine test as that's the one that matters.

Although you felt stone cold sober, that could easily be adrenaline masking how you felt. I know that doesn't help, but better to be prepared for the worst than trying to convince yourself it'll be grand.

What will happen if it's positive depends on the level detected.

If it's less than 67mg there's no offence
If it's more than 67mg but less than 107mg, you'll get a €200 fine, 3 points
If it's between 107mg and 135mg it's a €400 fine and 6 months disqualified.
If it's more than 135mg you have to go to court and it's a minimum 1 year ban.

For reference, 107mg is "quite tipsy" in my experience. You can walk in a straight line and speak normally but you definitely know you've drink onboard. 67mg would vary from person to person, but you would certainly be feeling the buzz at that point.

If you had (say) 3 glasses of wine and then nothing for 3 hours, I'd be surprised if you registered above 67mg, but everyone's body is different.

colbully

seamus wrote: »

All you can do is wait for the results of the urine test as that's the one that matters.

Although you felt stone cold sober, that could easily be adrenaline masking how you felt. I know that doesn't help, but better to be prepared for the worst than trying to convince yourself it'll be grand.

What will happen if it's positive depends on the level detected.

If it's less than 67mg there's no offence
If it's more than 67mg but less than 107mg, you'll get a €200 fine, 3 points
If it's between 107mg and 135mg it's a €400 fine and 6 months disqualified.
If it's more than 135mg you have to go to court and it's a minimum 1 year ban.

For reference, 107mg is "quite tipsy" in my experience. You can walk in a straight line and speak normally but you definitely know you've drink onboard. 67mg would vary from person to person, but you would certainly be feeling the buzz at that point.

If you had (say) 3 glasses of wine and then nothing for 3 hours, I'd be surprised if you registered above 67mg, but everyone's body is different.

thanks for the quick reply seamus..i did feel a bit tipsy and to be hoest it was the whole shock of the way they pulled me over and all that ,sobered me up in a shot...im praying that this willgood but i cant stop worrying,,.id gladly pay 5grand of a fine and 10 penalty points if i culd keep my license

MagicSean

You'll get a copy of the reading by registered post. Shouldn't take too long. The minimum disqualification periods are mandatory on conviction.

Interesting that two Garda cars appeared out of nowhere. Would your girlfriend be a vindictive person by any chance?

Just from experience. If you had 3 standard glasses you will likely be under. If you had 5 then you may indeed be over. You're quite lucky it took the doctor so long to get to the station.

ResearchWill

If and when you get the result you need to go to a solicitor if it is over the limit there maybe at least one very good defense point. Don't ask me what I will not break charter rules by giving advice.

JustAddWater

MagicSean wrote: »

Interesting that two Garda cars appeared out of nowhere. Would your girlfriend be a vindictive person by any chance?

Or maybe the OP was more drunk than thought and was driving all over the place?

Why insinuate anything when you know the OP as much as I do? (i.e not at all)

colbully

ive contacted my solictor already and had a meeting with him and hes offered me alot of advice but cant proceed any further until the results are back

and MagicSean,, u took the words out of my mouth ..my gf knows a few local gards fairly well and thi crossed my mind that she may have alerted them.. honest to god the way they blocked me in and had lights flashing ,, i thought i was goin to be takd the the ground and hand cuffed...5 gards got out and surrounded the car !!!!! i was speechless

colbully

i could not have been driving all over the place as it was when i was pulling up to a set of traffic lights when it happened an moving very slowly..before i pulled up there was no cars behind me,,and then all of a sudden,,two garda cars .. i asked the gard was i speeding or anything and he just said no... my solictor also found it strange that they pulled me over in this way... im now starting to wonder would it have been my car they were suspicious of... i only have it 3 months and bought it from a lad in dublin,, ad i only drive it at weekends as i use a van for work .its fully taxed,insured and nct'd and not loud,or boy racer like...

Yellowblackbird

Of course his girlfriend called the guards. You'd be blind colbully if you can't read that one.

colbully

It's upsetting me more now thinking about this As I now think it was her who reported me. She is denying it but I feel sick now thinking of it

MagicSean

JustAddWater wrote: »

Or maybe the OP was more drunk than thought and was driving all over the place?

Why insinuate anything when you know the OP as much as I do? (i.e not at all)

Maybe he was and happened to pass two Garda cars who happened to be beside each other and immediately assumed he was drunk.

dewsbury

A few friends and I experimented with the alcohol testing machines a couple of years ago.

Based on our experience (VERY unscientific) there must be a fair chance that you will be okay.

Assume 5 glasses of wine over three hours followed by a three hour delay before the test??? I would guess that this would be okay.
The time delay factor is critical here.

colbully

The time delay from my last drink to the urine test was at least a good 4 hours.. In my mind I'm trying to sugar coat this scenario as much as I can, but I guess I hav to get it into my head that there's a chance I could be off the road for a while soon .. It's my own fault to b honest an Im just going to have to get on with things ... I officially hate alcohol

Procrastastudy

dewsbury wrote: »

A few friends and I experimented with the alcohol testing machines a couple of years ago.

Based on our experience (VERY unscientific) there must be a fair chance that you will be okay.

Assume 5 glasses of wine over three hours followed by a three hour delay before the test??? I would guess that this would be okay.
The time delay factor is critical here.

Purely out of curiosity - wouldn't the delay be nullified by virtue of the fact they tested his urine? I really have no idea, sorry if that's a stupid question, I'm just assuming that's how it gets out of the body and that they didnt let the OP take a tinkle.

av8r10

i reckon your in the clear mate, one glass of wine is 1 unit i think, and 1 unit is gone in an hour, so if you had 4 glasses youll be fine!

Procrastastudy

av8r10 wrote: »

i reckon your in the clear mate, one glass of wine is 1 unit i think, and 1 unit is gone in an hour, so if you had 4 glasses youll be fine!

The problem is that's 175ml glasses - I don't know about normal people but to me (and my stemware ) a 750ml bottle is about 4 glasses - that's ten units in a 13.5% bottle of wine.

If it was under a bottle he might be okay. Not everyone has the portion sizes I do

colbully

But as the poster before u said av8r10,, would my urine now be full of alcohol anyways ?

Procrastastudy

colbully wrote: »

But as the poster before u said av8r10,, would my urine now be full of alcohol anyways ?

Sorry OP I know I'm not helping calm you down - just curious about a few bits. I wish you the best of luck and even if it turns out that you have a short ban it's not the end of the world - it happens to plenty of people who just make that sill mistake once off.

Best of luck to you.

kevincaomhin

I am not condoning drinkdriving but.....

Are you entitled to ask for a blood or urine sample instead of a second breath test?

It would seem like a good strategy if you were borderline as the delay could swing the test in your favour?

colbully

Thanks everyone for yer help an opinions .. In my own eyes an mind the urine will come back over the limit but then again I think I'm thinking this wayto prepare myself for the worst ... Thanks again

colbully

I was offered a sample of the urine but turned it down as I didn't see much point in it ... I don't suppose I can still get the sample I was offered now ?

MagicSean

kevincaomhin wrote: »

I am not condoning drinkdriving but.....

Are you entitled to ask for a blood or urine sample instead of a second breath test?

It would seem like a good strategy if you were borderline as the delay could swing the test in your favour?

No you are not.

colbully wrote: »

I was offered a sample of the urine but turned it down as I didn't see much point in it ... I don't suppose I can still get the sample I was offered now ?

No you cannot.

ResearchWill

colbully wrote: »

I was offered a sample of the urine but turned it down as I didn't see much point in it ... I don't suppose I can still get the sample I was offered now ?

To late now, but in any event ever second test I have ever seen was higher than the official, as they allow a margin of error.

Here is a piece of the relevant legisislation read it carefully.

4.— (1) A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

(2) A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is present in his or her body a quantity of alcohol such that, within 3 hours after so driving or attempting to drive, the concentration of alcohol in his or her blood will exceed a concentration of—

And

5.— (1) A person commits an offence if, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle (but not driving or attempting to drive it), he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.

(2) A person commits an offence if, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle (but not driving or attempting to drive it), there is present in his or her body a quantity of alcohol such that, within 3 hours after so being in charge, the concentration of alcohol in his or her blood will exceed a concentration of—

seamus

kevincaomhin wrote: »

I am not condoning drinkdriving but.....

Are you entitled to ask for a blood or urine sample instead of a second breath test?

No. The decision on the type of sample to take lies with the arresting Garda.
Refusing to supply any sample carries basically the same penalties as being found guilty of being over the limit.

Though in some cases you can avoid a disqualification for refusing a sample, so some savvy people have chosen to go the "refused sample" route when they know they're miles over the limit.

godtabh

colbully wrote: »

It's upsetting me more now thinking about this As I now think it was her who reported me. She is denying it but I feel sick now thinking of it

If you've had a few drinks it may have been obvious to many people that you needed to be stopped for your and other peoples own good.

It seems like a very long time between when you were arrested to when you gave a blood/urine sample.

Is there a minimum/maximum amount time allowable to give a sample (the longer it is the better your chances?)? Can you object to the second garda breathalyzer and opt for the doctor to take samples?

ResearchWill

godtabh wrote: »

If you've had a few drinks it may have been obvious to many people that you needed to be stopped for your and other peoples own good.

It seems like a very long time between when you were arrested to when you gave a blood/urine sample.

Is there a minimum/maximum amount time allowable to give a sample (the longer it is the better your chances?)? Can you object to the second garda breathalyzer and opt for the doctor to take samples?

I have posted the answer to your astute question above. Read the section carefully.

godtabh

ResearchWill wrote: »

I have posted the answer to your astute question above. Read the section carefully.

I wrote my question. Left my desk and then posted. Looks like there has been a few posts since

colbully

The gard told me the machine in the station was faulty. He took me into the room to use it an didn't know how to operate it or set it up so i never gave a sample into that machine.an made a few phone calls to various other Garda about the machine . He then told me it wasn't working and a doctor would have to be called .. The doctor was called around 20 minutes after that. And didn't arrive until 3.15-3.20am an I was offered either a blood or urine test by the doctor ,, not the gard . I picked urine an did the business an watched the doc seal the containers an put them in the box an seal that .. Should I not have been put in a cell ?? Or handcuffed ? Since I had failed the roadside ? I thought that was routine ?

Procrastastudy

colbully wrote: »

The gard told me the machine in the station was faulty. He took me into the room to use it an didn't know how to operate it or set it up so i never gave a sample into that machine.an made a few phone calls to various other Garda about the machine . He then told me it wasn't working and a doctor would have to be called .. The doctor was called around 20 minutes after that. And didn't arrive until 3.15-3.20am an I was offered either a blood or urine test by the doctor ,, not the gard . I picked urine an did the business an watched the doc seal the containers an put them in the box an seal that .. Should I not have been put in a cell ?? Or handcuffed ? Since I had failed the roadside ? I thought that was routine ?

I can't speak to what is routine but if you're co-operative and relatively sober surely it's within the discretion of the Guard no to cuff you or chuck you in a cell?

EDIT: I know you're not suggesting this OP but I'd love to see someone try and claim their detention was invalid because the guard was too nice to them

colbully

Also I think my car was taken away an searched .. Because when I got into the Garda car ,, an took off towards the station , another gard ( who I'm sure is drug squad gard) took my car up a completely different road from the road to the station ... Towards the town itself .. Then when I got out of the station at 3.40am my car wa right outside the front door of the station

ResearchWill

colbully wrote: »

The gard told me the machine in the station was faulty. He took me into the room to use it an didn't know how to operate it or set it up so i never gave a sample into that machine.an made a few phone calls to various other Garda about the machine . He then told me it wasn't working and a doctor would have to be called .. The doctor was called around 20 minutes after that. And didn't arrive until 3.15-3.20am an I was offered either a blood or urine test by the doctor ,, not the gard . I picked urine an did the business an watched the doc seal the containers an put them in the box an seal that .. Should I not have been put in a cell ?? Or handcuffed ? Since I had failed the roadside ? I thought that was routine ?

It's rare to be in a cell, usually it's in the main office waiting area for drink driving. I don't ever recall a drink driving case that the accused was handcuffed. In your OP you state you left the house at 12:30 and you state you arrived at the station at 12:30 do you remember the exact times.

colbully

I was as cooperative an polite as I could have been . All the Garda that dealt with me were actually very sound an none of them looked Down on me or made mw feel like crap ,, which I first thought they may have done . But iv nothing against gards or the law .. I wanted to be a gard myself on more than one occasion lol

seamus

Handcuffs and the cell will only happen if the Garda feels they're necessary. If you're co-operating, there's no need to cuff you.

colbully

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's rare to be in a cell, usually it's in the main office waiting area for drink driving. I don't ever recall a drink driving case that the accused was handcuffed. In your OP you state you left the house at 12:30 and you state you arrived at the station at 12:30 do you remember the exact times.

Sorry will I only looked back at that there an seen my mistake . The Gards pulled me at 12.30 , I would have left the house maybe 10 min before that . An I would have arrived at the Garda station around 12.45

ThreeLineWhip

What time were the samples taken?

colbully

3.20-3.30am mate

ResearchWill

colbully wrote: »

3.20-3.30am mate

The exact time is very very very very important, as is the time you were stopped. Very important, anything that can prove the time of the stop and the time of the sample are vital.

colbully

ResearchWill wrote: »

The exact time is very very very very important, as is the time you were stopped. Very important, anything that can prove the time of the stop and the time of the sample are vital.

I distinctly remember the Gards discussing the time I was stopped as being 12.30am.. An I also looked at the clock just when the doctor arrived , it was nearly 3.20am and the test tool around ten minutes to do an the doctor an the gard noted what time the test had been done

Pkiernan

If you want to get off your drunk driving escapade, you should engage a specialist solicitor.

It would do you no harm to attend an AA meeting either. While you may not be an alcoholic, your use of alcohol has certainly caused you a significant problem.

Lon.C

Sorry to hijack the thread.
How long is the normal time period to get urine results back.
It's been a year this week since I gave a sample, and have received no contact at all.
Is there a statute of limitations on this. I'm moving to Canada in the coming months and
wondering what's my situation?

Any help appreciated

ResearchWill

Lon.C wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread.
How long is the normal time period to get urine results back.
It's been a year this week since I gave a sample, and have received no contact at all.
Is there a statute of limitations on this. I'm moving to Canada in the coming months and
wondering what's my situation?

Any help appreciated

It's usually a matter of weeks to get the sample back. In any event a summons must be requested within 6 months of the event. It not unusual to serve the summons a number of months later. If you did not get the results then possible AGS did not get them either, if no result no prosecution.

colbully

I've already a good solicitor contacted an discussed the matter with him. He's been very helpful an has told me he has no problem representing me on the day in court if it comes to that. Ive two pages wrote out in my discription of everything that happened that night from getting pulled to leaving the station. Just to keep all fresh in my mind an also for my solicitors benefit .. I could probably cope with losing my license for 6 months.., if that happened. I'd hav to give up my job an make a few adjustments to my life but I'd just hav to get on with it .... Hopefully the results come back soon an will be ok an I can put this nightmare behind me. Trust me, I've learned from this mistake

colbully

MagicSean wrote: »

You'll get a copy of the reading by registered post. Shouldn't take too long. The minimum disqualification periods are mandatory on conviction.

Interesting that two Garda cars appeared out of nowhere. Would your girlfriend be a vindictive person by any chance?

Just from experience. If you had 3 standard glasses you will likely be under. If you had 5 then you may indeed be over. You're quite lucky it took the doctor so long to get to the station.[/QUOTE

turns out this was the case.my girlfriend (ex now) admitted to me that she rang one of her ex boyfriends in the garda station an informed him that a car matching the description of my Car was on its way through the town with drink and drugs on board !!!!! No wonder the gards surrounded my car the way they did , .. Anyways i know this is no excuse for my drink driving , but once again i have reached a stage in my life where i cant trust women ..im not branding all women the same but ive picked some lunatics in my time... Oh an ps .her reason for calling the gards on me an filling them full of lies?!?!?!?--- because i refused to purchase more wine for her that night as i only wanted a few glasses an go to bed early.so i was thrown out for that .then arrested. An now im awaiting urine test results to possibly lose my license !!! fml

MagicSean

I'd be considering reporting her for making a false statement and consulting a solicitor in regards to defamation proceedings. The Gardaí aren't there to settle lovers tiffs

colbully

MagicSean wrote: »

I'd be considering reporting her for making a false statement and consulting a solicitor in regards to defamation proceedings. The Gardaí aren't there to settle lovers tiffs

I know what u mean magicsean...i still was caught driving with alcohol in my system...the urine samples will determine how much..i was shocked when she told me what she had done.an trust me ., now i know she did it out of badness rather than my safety

supra300

when this guy was fiddling with the breath machine in the station had they anyone else observing ya ?

ResearchWill

supra300 wrote: »

when this guy was fiddling with the breath machine in the station had they anyone else observing ya ?

As they did not use the machine there is no need for an observation period.

ResearchWill

MagicSean wrote: »

I'd be considering reporting her for making a false statement and consulting a solicitor in regards to defamation proceedings. The Gardaí aren't there to settle lovers tiffs

The fact that the matter ended in an arrest for drink driving after a failed road side test, not really sure she wasted Garda time (not saying it was an ok thing for her to do). In relation to defamation proceedings if the OP is prosecuted for DD then there would be in my personal opinion a very slim chance of the defamation case going anywhere. The defence of qualified privilege would be open to the defendant but of course malice would be an issue.

colbully

No.me an the gard who was trying to set.up.the machine, were alone in the room with the machine for 10minutes..then the arresting guard came into the room...the machine was faulty so no sample was given..apart from my urine samp around an hour and a half after this..all in all i was stopped at 12.35am and provided my urine at around 3.30am

ABajaninCork

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Of course his girlfriend called the guards. You'd be blind colbully if you can't read that one.

Oh dear. I thought the same, but didn't want to say so. Looks as though you were right.

colbully wrote: »

turns out this was the case.my girlfriend (ex now) admitted to me that she rang one of her ex boyfriends in the garda station an informed him that a car matching the description of my Car was on its way through the town with drink and drugs on board !!!!! No wonder the gards surrounded my car the way they did , .. Anyways i know this is no excuse for my drink driving , but once again i have reached a stage in my life where i cant trust women ..im not branding all women the same but ive picked some lunatics in my time... Oh an ps .her reason for calling the gards on me an filling them full of lies?!?!?!?--- because i refused to purchase more wine for her that night as i only wanted a few glasses an go to bed early.so i was thrown out for that .then arrested. An now im awaiting urine test results to possibly lose my license !!! fml

I'd get on to the solicitor again and see what he says about this. What a bitach!!

Did she apologise?

MagicSean

ResearchWill wrote: »

The fact that the matter ended in an arrest for drink driving after a failed road side test, not really sure she wasted Garda time (not saying it was an ok thing for her to do). In relation to defamation proceedings if the OP is prosecuted for DD then there would be in my personal opinion a very slim chance of the defamation case going anywhere. The defence of qualified privilege would be open to the defendant but of course malice would be an issue.

Yes but I understood she also reported him as being in possession of a load of drugs. It brings me back to a thread I started a while back. Can qualified privilege be a defence to a purely vexatious complaint?