Most Important Irish Person

goose1

Okay, I know I'm really new here but I remember a similar (titled differently but I can't remember the real name!!) poll done by both Britain and Ireland before...the Irish version, while John Hume won, included Ronan Keating and Louis Walsh were also in the top 20....

So, to ask people interested in and with a knowledge of history sounds interesting! Who would you say is the most (I realise this is an almost impossible title, but who you believe impacted history the most) important person in Irish history...maybe even followed by, as I assume the most important will be those who did good, those Irish who caused the most damage to our nation! May even start this in AH if I feel brave enough, though I'm sure it's done.

Most important: Michael Collins..YES an absolute cliche but I love the man, if he had lived I highly doubt he would've beaten dev to such positions of power and yet I feel his influence may have shaped a slightly less dev influenced early Ireland....Most negative influence I find obvious, ahead of any British monarch, Cromwell etc....Diarmuid MacMuragh!!! I don't see how this is up for dispute although I know very little about the time in question, more of a fan of twentieth century history..

eoghan_85

New to this as well but will give it a shot. Firstly I'll admit that I am a bit of a Dev apologist but for me he has to be the most important person in Irish history over the last hundred years. I suppose I'm basing this largely on his longevity in the heighest positions of power spanning fifty years at arguably the most crucial junctions of the Irish states lifetime. Without getting into the wrongs and rights of his lifetime (which I'm going to assume as topics for a different thread) I believe his most important legacy was to bring a militiaristic anti treaty force down the path of peace that created the current two party system that has shaped our country since. There are other elements of his legacy that have equally shaped Irish life - Neutrality, 1937 Constitution, etc - and although he's probably the most widely debated figure in Irish history, there can be no doubt that he has been a major figure and IMHO the most major figure. As Tim Pat Coogan aptly named his biography on De Valera - Long Fellow, Long Shadow!

Other figures of note would be Daniel O Connell and Parnell for laying the foundation principles with a disengaged Irish public that they could achieve their goals through peaceful, democratic means.

Seanchai

Aodh Mór Ó Neill (c. 1550-1616).

Farmer Pudsey

Brien Brou was the first person who gave the Irish the sence that Ireland was a nation as opposed to a collection of Kingdoms.

dave2pvd

Seanchai wrote: »

Aodh Mór Ó Neill (c. 1550-1616).

^ +1

Enormous influence on Irish and world history.

Thomas_I

goose1 wrote: »

.... So, to ask people interested in and with a knowledge of history sounds interesting! Who would you say is the most (I realise this is an almost impossible title, but who you believe impacted history the most) important person in Irish history...maybe even followed by, as I assume the most important will be those who did good, those Irish who caused the most damage to our nation! May even start this in AH if I feel brave enough, though I'm sure it's done.

Most important: Michael Collins.. if he had lived I highly doubt he would've beaten dev to such positions of power and yet I feel his influence may have shaped a slightly less dev influenced early Ireland....Most negative influence I find obvious, ahead of any British monarch, Cromwell etc....Diarmuid MacMuragh!!! I don't see how this is up for dispute although I know very little about the time in question, more of a fan of twentieth century history..

There are plenty Irish people who did good and bad to Ireland and it´s imo difficult to pick one of them for each term (good or bad).

To stick on the 20th Century I think that most important for who did good are:

- James Connolly - the Socialist and man of the Trade and Workers Unions
- Patrick Pearse - the philosophic and foreseeing Republican
- Arthur Griffith - the founder of SF but a pragmatic politician
- Michael Collins - the multitalented leader who drove the British out
- W. T. Cosgrave - the man who brought some stability after the Civil War
- and Sean Lemass - the Taoiseach who led Ireland into modernity.

The more bad ones are:

- James Craig - the die-hard who is responsible for the partition
- Cathal Brugha - the worst of the republican die-hards
- Eamon De Valera - the "clergy-friend" who stirred up the Civil War
- and Ian Paisely - the "Mr NO" for denying the Irish people in NI civil rights.

The people I´ve picked there have in either way something in common which I regard by good doers as progressive and their hearts on the people and the country. The bad ones on selfishness, oppression and all of them were die-hards of their cause.

As for Michael Collins, I´ve the same opinion as you about him but I also bear in mind that without Griffith there would be something missed.

Inbetween these two categories is Charles Haughey. Although he did also some good for Ireland, this all is overshadowed by being branded as "corrupt".

It´s impossible to me to pick just one of them to be the most important. The whole development that led to Irish Freedom starts with Wolfe Tone through O´Connell, Parnell to James Larkin, Arthur Griffith and so on.

Balmed Out

dave2pvd wrote: »

^ +1

Enormous influence on Irish and world history.

Why so world history?

World history id have to say wellington. Irish history perhaps parnell

touts

I'll put in a shout for Ernest Walton for his work in splitting the atom.

Biggest Impact has to be Brian Cowen. His actions (or lack of) in the Department of Finance and then as Taoiseach lead to the destruction of the country.

Ipso

touts wrote: »

I'll put in a shout for Ernest Walton for his work in splitting the atom.

Biggest Impact has to be Brian Cowen. His actions (or lack of) in the Department of Finance and then as Taoiseach lead to the destruction of the country.

Throw in Brian Lenihan for his decision to save Anglo.

jonniebgood1

touts wrote: »

Biggest Impact has to be Brian Cowen. His actions (or lack of) in the Department of Finance and then as Taoiseach lead to the destruction of the country.

Ipso wrote: »

Throw in Brian Lenihan for his decision to save Anglo.

Keep it to 20th century and before for the sake of discussion- otherwise this is politics rather than history.

Moderator.

GRMA

Wolfe Tone and the United Irishmen imo...

O'Connell could have been the most important Irishman ever if he wasn't a bottler.

goose1

Totally agree, aside from the Collins remarks, James Connolly was so important....to be honest I'm reading these replies half drunk but i intend on writing a proper piece on the advances made by Connolly, especially re women....Great man!

dienbienphu

I think Gerry Adams contribution to Irish history has yet to be realised. I think hes probably the most overlooked living Irish patriot of our times. I think Adams has laid the foundations for Irish unity but selfishly it is not realised by Irish people, in the south at least.

Luca Brasi

dienbienphu wrote: »

I think Gerry Adams contribution to Irish history has yet to be realised. I think hes probably the most overlooked living Irish patriot of our times. I think Adams has laid the foundations for Irish unity but selfishly it is not realised by Irish people, in the south at least.

I suppose the fact that he fully supported the slaughter of innocent working class people in Birmingham Guildford Enniskillen La Mons etc blinds people to his "patriotism"
I cant see how copperfastening partition has exactly laid the foundation of Irish unity(something hundreds of thousands of people on the island (north and South) dont ever want to see
If you want to name a living patriot look no further than Seamus Mallon

dienbienphu

Luca Brasi wrote: »

I suppose the fact that he fully supported the slaughter of innocent working class people in Birmingham Guildford Enniskillen La Mons etc blinds people to his "patriotism"
I cant see how copperfastening partition has exactly laid the foundation of Irish unity(something hundreds of thousands of people on the island (north and South) dont ever want to see
If you want to name a living patriot look no further than Seamus Mallon

well i'm sure if irish people can come to terms with the likes of the famine where over 1 million people died, im sure historians will be able to see past a couple of bombings in England.

ZETOR_IS_BETTER

My vote goes to the big fella

Luca Brasi

dienbienphu wrote: »

well i'm sure if irish people can come to terms with the likes of the famine where over 1 million people died, im sure historians will be able to see past a couple of bombings in England.

If we dont mention the bombings in Ireland its allright so. Usual Provo guff as expected

dienbienphu

Luca Brasi wrote: »

If we dont mention the bombings in Ireland its allright so. Usual Provo guff as expected

take it to the politics forum if you have a problem. what the ira did during the 20th century is only a drop in the ocean compared to the atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland during their entire reign of terror.

a couple of Brits blown up in a pub, come on now, lets not cry over spilled milk

jonniebgood1

dienbienphu wrote: »

a couple of Brits blown up in a pub, come on now, lets not cry over spilled milk

Refer to forum charter "overly ... inflammatory comments will not be tolerated under any circumstances"

Thus infraction for quoted comment. Watch your conduct in future.
There is no need for any other poster to respond to this comment.
Any problems with this can be sent by PM to me.

jonniebgood1.

GRMA

dienbienphu wrote: »

I think Gerry Adams contribution to Irish history has yet to be realised. I think hes probably the most overlooked living Irish patriot of our times. I think Adams has laid the foundations for Irish unity but selfishly it is not realised by Irish people, in the south at least.

Gerry himself wouldn't agree with that but would point to Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers I reckon as being more worthy of that praise

Humility is a common trait with ex IRA members I've found, even the best ones who have done much

SebBerkovich

David Norris gets my vote.

Thomas_I

GRMA wrote: »

Gerry himself wouldn't agree with that but would point to Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers I reckon as being more worthy of that praise

Humility is a common trait with ex IRA members I've found, even the best ones who have done much

I find it rather difficult to see a link from Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers to the peace process. They died for their recognition as political prisoners in the first place. Gerry Adams has been active on reaching the GFA.

GRMA

Thomas_I wrote: »

I find it rather difficult to see a link from Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers to the peace process. They died for their recognition as political prisoners in the first place. Gerry Adams has been active on reaching the GFA.

The idea of focusing on politics, ending abstention etc all started in the jails and particularly with the hunger strikers... if you read the comms from the time thats clear... Adams was involved in that process too of course

Luca Brasi

GRMA wrote: »

The idea of focusing on politics, ending abstention etc all started in the jails and particularly with the hunger strikers... if you read the comms from the time thats clear... Adams was involved in that process too of course

The fact that he was never in the I.R.A. meant that the gullible young men behind bars doing life had that extra respect for him.

ejmaztec

Gerry Adams must be older than I thought, being as this thread's supposed to be for anyone around pre 20th Century.:P

eoghan_85

ejmaztec wrote: »

Gerry Adams must be older than I thought, being as this thread's supposed to be for anyone around pre 20th Century.:P

Who said the thread's supposed to be for anyone around pre 20th century?

On the topic of Gerry Adams I think he has to go down as one of the most important people in Irish history over the last 50 years. Read Ed Moloney's book - The Secret History of the IRA recently and have to admit I finished it with a much greater level of admiration for Adams. Effectively Adams was the one who started the peace process, despite coming from a military background in the early 70s, with the initial talks with Alex Reid and the Irish Govt. which I did without army council approval or knowledge and risked quite a great deal to ensure that talks stayed open during some very heavy periods of violence. To dismiss Adams as merely a war mongering terrorist is overly simplistic.

ejmaztec

eoghan_85 wrote: »

Who said the thread's supposed to be for anyone around pre 20th century?

On the topic of Gerry Adams I think he has to go down as one of the most important people in Irish history over the last 50 years. Read Ed Moloney's book - The Secret History of the IRA recently and have to admit I finished it with a much greater level of admiration for Adams. Effectively Adams was the one who started the peace process, despite coming from a military background in the early 70s, with the initial talks with Alex Reid and the Irish Govt. which I did without army council approval or knowledge and risked quite a great deal to ensure that talks stayed open during some very heavy periods of violence. To dismiss Adams as merely a war mongering terrorist is overly simplistic.

Sorry, misread post Number 10

Brian_Zeluz

Brian O'Driscoll

Fooker

I think discussion of Sand and Adam's etc. should wait another few decades yet. They certainly should not be discarded, to do so you would have to disqualify Wolfe Tone, Pearse, Collins, De Valera and so on from the discussion.

Further, I would definitely put O'Connell in the mix and I am quite suprised that Grattan has not been even been mentioned.

Luca Brasi

How about Charles Steward Parnell, Land Reform and Home Rule Bills.

Ranelite

Michael Collins.