More Mad_Lad Madness. Prius V S3 on Gas

@58-60

Alight folks I did the calculations and a 2008 Audi S3 Quattro with 265 BHP and 258 Lbs of torque on LPG @ 81C Litre in Kilcullen would cost 48 Euro's a week for the same distance I do in the Prius, roughly 750 kms, based on Audi's claim of 31 mpg combined consumption.

The Prius costs around 61 Euro's based on 1.55 L of petrol. @58-60 mpg Winter tyres killing my 65 mpg figure.

The manual S3 0-60 time =5.8 Seconds V 10.5 Seconds for the Prius!

Road tax is 710 Euro's for the 08 model or €1200 A year based on 199 g/km Co2.

Now this is the exciting bit.

The 2013 Model S3 has a combined consumption of 41 mpg :eek: Yep that's right, I checked.

So to cover my distance a week would cost @81C/L €42.00 for 300 HP and 280 LB torque, best thing is the Road tax would cost €570 per year for the manual or DSG @159 g/km co2 for the DSG V 162 for the Manual.

I seriously don't know why more car manufacturers don't make LPG cars, but I can tell you one thing there is no way in hell I would ever drive a boring rattle box diesel again. My next car will be leccy or LPG.

But it just goes to show there is absolutely no need for modern diesels with their false mpg figures and many problems related to emissions controls and no flywheel problems either.

The absolute killer fact is that there is such fantastic value on 2nd hand petrols V diesels making it an even greater no brainier choice.

Now the S3 is an extreme example of fun motoring on the cheap.

I wonder how much my insurance would go up based on 11 years no claim ?

I currently pay 500 on the Prius, so I bet the S3 would go up to at least 750 Euro's ?

Could LPG really bring fun back to motoring ?

colm_mcm

Do you not think that maybe the claimed mpg for the new s3 might be just as false as the ones made for diesel cars?

Also having all those horses is no good if you're trying to get the best mpg

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Do you not think that maybe the claimed mpg for the new s3 might be just as false as the ones made for diesel cars?

Also having all those horses is no good if you're trying to get the best mpg

probably true too, but I wouldn't get to use half those horses in commuter traffic, but I could let flex it's muscles now and then.

I couldn't see it costing more than the Prius on Petrol either way you look at it.

BTW I'm not saying I'm getting one, I'm just letting people know the alternatives.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

BTW I'm not saying I'm getting one, I'm just letting people know the alternatives.

.... The alternatives to a prius? The majority of Irish motorists don't need telling

colm_mcm

How much is an s3 again?

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

How much is an s3 again?

Eah, depends on if you buy 2nd hand or new of course, but the one I was looking at on carzone was a 2008, 35K miles 16,950.

New prob close to 40 K

Neilw

I had a Prius rental for a few weeks, it was the most boring, numb, heavy feeling unbalanced car I've ever driven. Life is too short to punish yourself by owning one.

thecomedian

I never knew there was a LPG in kilcullen, that's makes it more interesting.
So what I'd be thinking, u could get the higher spec petrol, which would be a couple of grand cheaper than the diesel.
Convert it to LPG and have money left over??
How much to convert? 1500?

Neilw

Neilw wrote: »

I had a Prius rental for a few weeks, it was the most boring, numb, heavy feeling unbalanced car I've ever driven. Life is too short to punish yourself by owning one.

It's not a bad car and for it's size the economy is great and it's reliability is fantastic. Not the most fun for sure. But a sensible practical car a good work horse.

The Prius doesn't pretend to be anything more.

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

I never knew there was a LPG in kilcullen, that's makes it more interesting.
So what I'd be thinking, u could get the higher spec petrol, which would be a couple of grand cheaper than the diesel.
Convert it to LPG and have money left over??
How much to convert? 1500?

Well the place in Kilcullen charges 1000 for 4 cylinder engines.

All the vag Petrols 1.4 + are chain cam too, not suggesting anyone go for VAG I just used the above as an example and to open peoples minds to the fact diesel isn't always best.

A 50 mpg Diesel will cost 65 Euro's to do the same KMs as I do per week.

So basically 30 mpg LPG would be between 7-10 Euro's cheaper to run than a 50 mpg Diesel.

Converting the Prius would =30 Euro per week maybe 33 if it's not quiet as efficient.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

.... The alternatives to a prius? The majority of Irish motorists don't need telling

Indeed, but I prefer the Prius to a rattlebox diesel, unless it's a very very quiet car like an A6 TDI that has lots of sound proofing, then I could live with it maybe.

Bpmull

Aren't cars converted to LPG up to 20 percent harder on LPG than they would be on petrol. I'd say an s3 running on LPG would achieve a lot closer to 20 mpg than 31mpg. As already an s3 is not a car you buy if you are interested in fuel economy.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

Aren't cars converted to LPG up to 20 percent harder on LPG than they would be on petrol. I'd say an s3 running on LPG would achieve a lot closer to 20 mpg than 31mpg. As already an s3 is not a car you buy if you are interested in fuel economy.

Don't think it's anything like that with modern conversions.

Bpmull

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't think it's anything like that with modern conversions.

I just heard that figure. Do the cars still have to be started on petrol and then switched over to LPG when there warmed up.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

I just heard that figure. Do the cars still have to be started on petrol and then switched over to LPG when there warmed up.

Yes I think so.

Bpmull

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I think so.

I think it is a good idea alright LPG conversions I done a project on converting cars to LPG in college. LPG produces about 20 percent less co2 emissions than petrol so that is a good thing.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

I just heard that figure. Do the cars still have to be started on petrol and then switched over to LPG when there warmed up.

According to WIKI

" In particular, it reduces CO2 emissions by around 35% compared to petrol."

I read somewhere where it stated that LPG reduces the toxic emissions compared to diesel by massive amounts, I'll see if I can dig it up, but C02 is harmless to human health.

It's bewildering to think the E.U concentrate on C02 emissions and promote diesel vehicles which is just wrong!

Anyway If I were the E.U I would be promoting much more effort into Thorium and L.F.T.R research so we could make hydrogen to run our electric cars, heat homes etc all with 0 emissions of any kind and have a few hundred thousand years of cheap clean energy.

It's there which is the saddest part of all.

OK rant over.

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

According to WIKI

" In particular, it reduces CO2 emissions by around 35% compared to petrol."

I read somewhere where it stated that LPG reduces the toxic emissions compared to diesel by massive amounts, I'll see if I can dig it up, but C02 is harmless to human health.

It's bewildering to think the E.U concentrate on C02 emissions and promote diesel vehicles which is just wrong!

Was just about to comment on this, LPG's "weakest" gain over the Petrol and Diesel is the CO2 emission amount (ie being marginally better than diesel, much better than petrol), however this is misleading as the other, actually harmful to humans, emissions are far better:

Even compared to petrol, which itself is low in NOx, the best quality bi-fuel gas engines produce fewer NOx emissions and virtually eliminate emissions of particulates.

See this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82547377&postcount=119



As another alternative to the S3, an A5 2.0TFSI remaps to 265bhp and 290ft/lb of torque (ie like the Audi S4 of times past) yet also gets a claimed 7l/100km (40mpg). Fast, looks/sounds good, beats may Diesels for economy, beats both fuels in environmental impact and addition of LPG fueling system actually dramatically increases cars total range.. perfect package for the current times.

Nice car Matt but it would cost more than an S3.

I wasn't as impressed with the A5 as I was the A4, though the A5 has a better boot, saloon boots are really useless.

Having said that the A5 is a nice car to sit in and drive.

But yeah more cars should be LPG from the factory. Just think if those horrible city buses changed to LPG, the cleaner air would be the biggest benefit. Diesel should be banned !

That place in Kilcullen that sells it usually drops the price to 75 C L in summer, seemingly it's more expensive in winter.

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice car Matt but it would cost more than an S3.

I was cheating and thinking used, that model came out in late 2008.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

I was cheating and thinking used, that model came out in late 2008.

Did the A5 not come out in 07 ?

colm_mcm

The 3.0 models came out in 07, think the 1.8 and 2.0 came in 2008

The Pontiac

Deleted User wrote: »

But it just goes to show there is absolutely no need for modern diesels with their false mpg figures

I always get above the average mpg stated for my car. I thought these figures were independently assessed anyway?

As for the rest of your post I fully agree. Although I don't think all diesels are rattle boxes. I love my diesel engine.

But yes there's lots of problems with modern diesels - DMF, DPF, EGRs etc etc. And insane value in petrol cars (anything over 2L anyway), just name your price. Just see how popular LPG is in Holland and other European countries, for example.

Rewind back 6 months, and I'd be buying a petrol car and getting the conversion done, instead of the trying to buy a diesel for half decent money, as everyone is obsessed with diesel.

The best kept secret in the motoring world IMO.

Supergurrier

Impressive figures for a Hyperhatch, i would be happy with 30mpg

Supergurrier

Supergurrier wrote: »

Impressive figures for a Hyperhatch, i would be happy with 30mpg

Depends on how you drive. I bet I could bet the 30 mpg if driving normally but probably less if I drive it mad enough.

Supergurrier

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends on how you drive. I bet I could bet the 30 mpg if driving normally but probably less if I drive it mad enough.

Depends completely on the cars powerplant tbh

<Ollie>

<Ollie> wrote: »

I always get above the average mpg stated for my car. I thought these figures were independently assessed anyway?

As for the rest of your post I fully agree. Although I don't think all diesels are rattle boxes. I love my diesel engine.

But yes there's lots of problems with modern diesels - DMF, DPF, EGRs etc etc. And insane value in petrol cars (anything over 2L anyway), just name your price. Just see how popular LPG is in Holland and other European countries, for example.

Rewind back 6 months, and I'd be buying a petrol car and getting the conversion done, instead of the trying to buy a diesel for half decent money, as everyone is obsessed with diesel.

The best kept secret in the motoring world IMO.

Well I like driving diesel for it's torque but having said that a decent petrol should be just as good. My GF's 2000 crv 2.0L petrol pulls like a diesel, it's great, I love driving it on our crap country roads. Shame it's not the Vtec.

Bigus

Put LPG on the Prius and buy a weekend or track car, or a house in Dublin with the money saved on a
Leaf


http://priuschat.com/threads/lpg.77555/

Supergurrier

Supergurrier wrote: »

Depends completely on the cars powerplant tbh

Well I don't think anyone with 300 HP on tap (for the new S3) is going to drive it any way economically. But having that power that costs less than a 50 mpg diesel to run maybe 140 hp max ? is just fantastic IMO.

I'm talking lifetime mpg not resetting the counter for every trip.

My old 2003 A4 TDI Auto managed 48 mpg over the 100,000 miles I had it so maybe 4-5 mpg extra for the manual. The Multitronic is a great box.

LPG @ 30 mpg V 58 MPG Diesel = 55 a week for the diesel to travel 740 kms v 58 for the LPG @ 81 C litre. In summer they charge 75 C a litre =54 Euro's for LPG.

Now the New S3 if it can be believed can do 40 mpg for a 300 hp car meaning it would cost 39 Euro's a week in summer or 42 Euro's in winter for the new S3. 300 hp.

Bigus

Bigus wrote: »

Put LPG on the Prius and buy a weekend or track car, or a house in Dublin with the money saved on a
Leaf


http://priuschat.com/threads/lpg.77555/

No denying that electricity is the cheapest to drive on and the Leaf would pay back after 5 years. No new car can pay for itself with petrol or diesel costs, not even LPG.

I don't think I'll be converting the Prius, I don't know how long I'll be keeping it and I need to find out if the valves give trouble.

Bigus

Deleted User wrote: »

No denying that electricity is the cheapest to drive on and the Leaf would pay back after 5 years. No new car can pay for itself with petrol or diesel costs, not even LPG.

I don't think I'll be converting the Prius, I don't know how long I'll be keeping it and I need to find out if the valves give trouble.

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Photoshop

Bigus wrote: »

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Who in there right mind buys a brand new S3 and voids warranty converting to lpg, to save 30 euro a week.

Now buying a 2002 S3 225 for 5k and converting that to lpg, makes financial sense, 1.8 too with lowish tax.

Any decent lpg garage locater search engine?

Only know of one place in Co.Limerick, 40km for my house in the city.

Bigus

Bigus wrote: »

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Bigus wrote: »

Why not do the figures on an LPG Prius , I assume its paid for and a conversion would be paid for in no time compared to a new electric car. Use the savings for a track car or a house. I drove a pruis with 273000 miles on it and it was perfect.
Don't forget with the miles you're doing it'll kill the resale of any new car, electric or not.
Why not do the figures ?

Indeed my mileage means resale value takes a nose dive even after the first year.

The Prius is paid for and yes converting it would be a good Idea, but it's unknown yet how LPG would effect the valves, it could end up costing more than the conversion to repair if something went wrong, I hear Jap cars are not the greatest when converting to LPG. I know you can add lubricant but still.

It's also unknown how long the battery would last in the Leaf, one report in the U.S from the only known highest mileage Leaf owner on the mynissanleaf forum has said he has seen a 20% loss of capacity after 60,000 Miles.

Now that could be due to heat or using 100% battery every day or multiple fast charges per day.

If I had a work charger and with our cool climate I see no reason I wouldn't get 200,000 miles from the Leaf or 8 years driving at my current mileage simply because I would be using 50-60 % of the battery every day and 0 fast charging. Even with time itself I see no reason 200,000 miles can't be got from the Leaf. And in 8 years batteries will be very cheap, certainly replacement packs for the Leaf.

Anyone who travels to the Luas red cow would have huge benefits because they could charge there. The more you keep it topped up the better and the more to 80% better again.

Anyone doing 8,000-12,000 miles a year should see many years use in the Leaf 10+, time would be the biggest factor with small mileage drivers. Also those who charge to 80% will see the longest life.

But I look at it like this, I could either buy an older car and spend it on fuel or LPG for maybe 10 euro a week cheaper than the Prius or buy a new leaf and it's paid for in 5 years with the money I'm spending on the Prius already.

Anyone getting 40 mpg or less, then electric would pay for itself in 3-4 years with the same 25K miles I do a year (currently) After that you got some seriously cheap motoring, not as much fun as an S3 for sure but the cheapest.

You cant't say a normal car will ever pay for itself with the cost of fuel, even lpg.

Anyway I didn't get the full time position so there will be no Leaf yet.

Photoshop

Photoshop wrote: »

Who in there right mind buys a brand new S3 and voids warranty converting to lpg, to save 30 euro a week.

Now buying a 2002 S3 225 for 5k and converting that to lpg, makes financial sense, 1.8 too with lowish tax.

Any decent lpg garage locater search engine?

Only know of one place in Co.Limerick, 40km for my house in the city.

I don't think anyone suggested buying a new S3 ?

I was just comparing the cost of running the older S3 V new V Prius on LPG V Diesel V Electric.

Gumbo

My long term average in my 2001 Audi S3 was 21MPG. Maybe the newer ones are alot more economical.

tossy

kceire wrote: »

My long term average in my 2001 Audi S3 was 21MPG. Maybe the newer ones are alot more economical.

Mine is around 24 constantly,no way you are going to see those figures from the newer ones.Audi i think quoted 32 mpg for the 8L.

Not to mention LPG isn't as economical and you loose some horse power when running on it,although i'm not sure if that is true.

However i think it's great idea i'm all for any car over a prius.

Matt Simis

tossy wrote: »

Not to mention LPG isn't as economical and you loose some horse power when running on it,although i'm not sure if that is true.

10% worse economy for 50% of the cost..!
BHP is "moved" around, torque comes in lower which means peak BHP is slightly less, yet the car feels a little more responsive. Ive seen 5% peak loss as a floated about figure. This is on cars not "tuned" for LPG, IMO a 100octane remap suits both fuels in our climate (on most cars, not highly tuned).

tossy

Matt Simis wrote: »

10% worse economy for 50% of the cost..!
.

Sorry that was the Irish in me a country where we spend 24k on a new car to save 400e a year on road tax.

September1

Deleted User wrote: »

The Prius is paid for and yes converting it would be a good Idea, but it's unknown yet how LPG would effect the valves, it could end up costing more than the conversion to repair if something went wrong, I hear Jap cars are not the greatest when converting to LPG. I know you can add lubricant but still.

Electric cars are bad for environment, they have toxic metals inside. Also their range is like 10km. Battery dies after 1 year. Max speed is 50km/h. In same news Jap cars are not greatest for converting to LPG. Someone please tell Mitsubishi as they sell (not in Ireland) cars with LPG.

Matt Simis

September1 wrote: »

Electric cars are bad for environment, they have toxic metals inside. Also their range is like 10km. Battery dies after 1 year. Max speed is 50km/h. In same news Jap cars are not greatest for converting to LPG. Someone please tell Mitsubishi as they sell (not in Ireland) cars with LPG.

And your point its what?

September1

Matt Simis wrote: »

And your point its what?

There are LPG sets that do not work with certain engines, but such generalizations are useless. LPG technology is not dead, and what was not possible few years ago would be possible now. Of course certain posters are very loud when others voice useless generalizations about EV, yet they play same game with LPG. Is it clear now?

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

And your point its what?

Sarcasm.

Matt Simis

September1 wrote: »

There are LPG sets that do not work with certain engines, but such generalizations are useless. LPG technology is not dead, and what was not possible few years ago would be possible now. Of course certain posters are very loud when others voice useless generalizations about EV, yet they play same game with LPG. Is it clear now?

All he said was he heard it wasnt as applicable to Jap engines, which from actually owning an LPG car and researching them in-depth, I found to be a common theme from LPG fitters. Im sure there are Jap engines that its fine with, but for the sake of creating a frame of reference that relevant to the average Irish motorist/Boards.ie poster, some generalisations are needed.

RoverJames wrote: »

Sarcasm.

I know it was sarcasm, but thats not a "point" or in anyway intelligent or conducive to education/understanding.

tossy

tossy wrote: »

Sorry that was the Irish in me a country where we spend 24k on a new car to save 400e a year on road tax.

I don't think that's the intention people have. I think those that buy a new car want to spend as little as possible on road tax, rather than the low tax being the reason for buying new.

tossy

tossy wrote: »

Mine is around 24 constantly,no way you are going to see those figures from the newer ones.Audi i think quoted 32 mpg for the 8L.

Not to mention LPG isn't as economical and you loose some horse power when running on it,although i'm not sure if that is true.

However i think it's great idea i'm all for any car over a prius.

Probably wouldn't see 40 mpg for the 2013 S3 if someone was to use most of those 300 horses. But who knows what tricks they did to improve economy ?

I wonder what it could do unlimited ?

Photoshop

Photoshop wrote: »

Who in there right mind buys a brand new S3 and voids warranty converting to lpg, to save 30 euro a week.

Now buying a 2002 S3 225 for 5k and converting that to lpg, makes financial sense, 1.8 too with lowish tax.

Any decent lpg garage locater search engine?

Only know of one place in Co.Limerick, 40km for my house in the city.

I wasn't suggesting to buy a "new" S3 I was just comparing the older S3 and the new S3 on LPG compared to the Prius on petrol.

A 40 mpg petrol car on LPG would cost 42 euro's to do my 740 kms compared to 58-60 in the Prius at 58Mpg

A 50 mpg Diesel would cost 65 Euro's

Payback of conversion in the Prius would be 8 months.

Converted Prius at 58 mpg would cost 29 Euro's or 27 Euro's based on summer price or if I get rid of those tyres and get back my 65 mpg would cost around 24.80 to do 740 kms.

If you want to add 10% for inefficiencies ? go ahead.

tossy

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think that's the intention people have. I think those that buy a new car want to spend as little as possible on road tax, rather than the low tax being the reason for buying new.

I know a few people who changed soley for the reason of road tax,ok they didn't spend 24k but they would have paid out 6/7k to come up 2 or so years.just to save 400 odd a year,the funny thing is all of these people were getting the car on finance - the mind boggles.

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably wouldn't see 40 mpg for the 2013 S3 if someone was to use most of those 300 horses. But who knows what tricks they did to improve economy ?

I wonder what it could do unlimited ?

Modern petrol cars are improving in economy slightly i think,but it's not what they do to improve economy in general. The real scam is what they do to improve economy in their tests - running thinner low friction tyres etc.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/93257-s3-fuel-consumption-now-added-poll.html

Seems people are getting 26-29 mpg and over 30 in cases where they probably drive normally.

That isn't bad for a car with 265 hp or remap to 300. And cost to run of a Prius on petrol !

tossy

tossy wrote: »

I know a few people who changed soley for the reason of road tax,ok they didn't spend 24k but they would have paid out 6/7k to come up 2 or so years.just to save 400 odd a year,the funny thing is all of these people were getting the car on finance - the mind boggles.

Could it be that they genuinely wanted to come up 2 years and it so happened that what they chose was just cheaper to tax ?


Modern petrol cars are improving in economy slightly i think,but it's not what they do to improve economy in general. The real scam is what they do to improve economy in their tests - running thinner low friction tyres etc.

I agree that most fuel economy tests are BS, I think the euro test doesn't even involve road testing ?

Just for the Laugh I got a quote from Zurich on a 08 S3 265 hp 34K miles 17,000 Euro.

I would have got a quote from 123 but they didn't have an S3 listed LOL

Quote 600 just 100 more than the Prius hahahaha they joy's of getting old !

I remember when I used to get refused for a 1.4 petrol 70 hp LMAO

It's mad to think what they cost new though isn't it ?

710 euro's tax is a pain though, but worth it ? hell yeah every penny I'd say ! :-)

Ah seriously though wouldn't ye want to be mad paying for a diesel when you can have a machine like this, no ?