Edge top 50 greatest developers

richymcdermott

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/01/12/edge-lists-the-worlds-50-greatest-developers/

Dont know why mohjang are so high up , they only made minecraft as far as i know.

Kojima productions should be higher up the list.

Retr0gamer

Seems to be very influenced by current trends. Mojang only have Minecraft, Ninja Theory have made nothing but mediocre titles, 343 might have proved themselves with Halo 4 but it's their only project so far. A lot of japanese developers are missing as well such as Atlus who have been pumping out nothing but quality from their in house projects.

[CrimsonGhost]

If I was to pick one developer which is glaring in it's omission it would be Bullfrog. Plenty of others too, but early Bullfrog has a sweet spot in my heart.

richymcdermott

Retro studios are missing aswell and their list of games is outstanding

juan.kerr

LucasArts (Monkey Island series, Indiana Jones and Fate Of Atlantis to name a few).
Sensible Sortware

KilOit

Mojang at 2? come on! That over opinionated Notch fella can go f**k himself, yeah gratz you made Minecraft now get over yourself!

Burning Eclipse

KilOit wrote: »

Mojang at 2? come on! That over opinionated Notch fella can go f**k himself, yeah gratz you made Minecraft now get over yourself!

Hello hostility... Notch seems like a cool guy from what I've seen of him in the gaming media/reddit.

List is a bit hipster for my liking, but this is Edge we're talking about.

Magill

Thats exactly the order i would have them................. not.

Kinski

juan.kerr wrote: »

LucasArts (Monkey Island series, Indiana Jones and Fate Of Atlantis to name a few).
Sensible Sortware

Seems to be the best developers today, not from 1995...though Codemasters are on there

Nice to see Ireland's Terry Cavanagh getting a slot all to himself (our very own auteur developer.)

Treasure missing. Grasshopper Manufacture too.

SeantheMan

Valve ftw !

ShaneU

Mojang ahead of nintendo, stopped reading :rolleyes:

Reekwind

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Mojang only have Minecraft...

... one of the most significant game landmarks of recent years

But yes, the list is dominated by "current trends", presumably because it's concerned with currently active developers

K.O.Kiki

Poor Clover, forgotten even in death.

degrassinoel

never heard of half of those devs before tbh.

aN.Droid

Valve deserve the #1 spot. All 49 other spots are wrong.

Elmidena

Blizzard 17th, seriously?!

Grumpypants

Is it not their 50 top devs of the year that they do every year? Would explain a lot.

Reekwind

This thread would be a lot more interesting if people actually explained why a developer should be higher, rather than "X at number 27? Absurd!"

richymcdermott

Reekwind wrote: »

This thread would be a lot more interesting if people actually explained why a developer should be higher, rather than "X at number 27? Absurd!"

there games should speak out volumes why they should be higher.

for instance media molecule who have done nothing since littlebigplanet two should never be ahead of kojima productions as metal gear titles have done more innovating things compared to lbp create share and play community which is basically a console version of a mod.

i put fromsoftware ahead of bungie as both dark souls and demons souls have being if i bodly say the best games this generation imho. while halo franchise had being fresh in the past as they changed fps on consoles i feel it does not hold a torch to what the souls series has done with its online interrogation, its depth and its satisfaction.

Elmidena

richymcdermott wrote: »

there games should speak out volumes why they should be higher.

for instance media molecule who have done nothing since littlebigplanet two should never be ahead of kojima productions as metal gear titles have done more innovating things compared to lbp create share and play community which is basically a console version of a mod.

i put fromsoftware ahead of bungie as both dark souls and demons souls have being if i bodly say the best games this generation imho. while halo franchise had being fresh in the past as they changed fps on consoles i feel it does not hold a torch to what the souls series has done with its online interrogation, its depth and its satisfaction.

And it taught me there were extents of agonising cruelty I previously had not known in life. Repeatedly

danthefan

Don't think I could agree with Valve as number 1 if you're talking about games and games only. Steam has revolutionised PC gaming though so if you include it then yeah it's probably fair enough.

I've never played Minecraft so I'm not sure I can really comment on Mojang being number 2.

ahnowbrowncow

No Cd projekt red??? The witcher series is amazing and plus they own gog.com. Their stance against drm and paid dlc is admirable. Any game they release would be a day one purchase for me.

Also, how on earth are creative assembly so low down on the list?

johnny_ultimate

Of course the list consists of current, active developers rather than beloved but long since expired ones - that's the whole point of it. The criteria, notably in the present and future tense:

We're interested in technical and creative ability, and in studios that realise the most involving and stimulating game worlds, whether that's through visual, audio or game design. Imagination to bring new influences and themes to games, experiment with new ways of interacting, ingenuity in creating enthralling experiences, understand and engage with their audiences and have the vision to know where games are going next.

Of course, as is always the way with the inherently foolhardy 'numbered lists', we will all find things we significantly disagree with or omissions that are irritating. But at the same time there is at least some level of logic to the choices. Valve and Mojang for example - not only have they committed to consistently creative, high-quality games, but they've also completely re-interpreted the manner in which their games are developed and distributed. And their influence is impossible to deny - Gabe Newell or Notch are undoubtedly more likely to earn headlines with their comments than any other individual game developer. Their companies - and Nintendo too, with the likes of their Nintendo direct broadcasts - undoubtedly engage with the gamers themselves like few others. With someone like Bungie - who Edge most definitely have a hard-on for - their decision to abandon their reliable cash-cow and go 'independent' with a new franchise is an admirable one, and theoretically one that will benefit their creative ambitions.

Atlus? Well, that's kind of like saying Ubisoft is a good developer - too broad a comment and too many individual teams of developers to be able to analyse their overall creative vision IMO. Yeah, something more specific like 'Persona Team' would be a better call, and of course we can't forget their sheer disinterest in European gamers limits their influence and presence around these parts. Similarly with From - no doubt the Souls games earned their place on the list, but they make loads of other, much less liked games like Armoured Core or (shudder) Steel Battalion Kinect.

It's just one publication's list (with all the accompanying ideological biases that entails) at the end of the day, and TBH numbering lists like this is arguably an exercise in futility. But there is some level of logic to the inclusions and the listing order, even if we're all likely to feel minor outrage that our favourites don't place higher or lower.

In conclusion: Rocksteady > Thatgamecompany?! They **** they are!

Retr0gamer

I think you aren't giving enough credit to Atlus. They aren't just a publisher, they have their own in house development teams which really have been producing nothing but top notch games in the last few years. Also with the Persona 4 anime and the up coming Devil Survivor 2 anime they have themselves set up to become a new Japanese powerhouse if they play their cards right. Also a lot of the developers that are on that list consist of multiple development teams.

As for their disinterest in European gamers, they haven't got a european distributor in place so it's not really their fault. They are quite a small operation so Blame the other publishers that won't bring their games over. Plenty on that list don't have European publishing wings either.

Kinski

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Also with the Persona 4 anime and the up coming Devil Survivor 2 anime they have themselves set up to become a new Japanese powerhouse if they play their cards right.r.

Is that Persona one supposed to be any good? Haven't watched anime in years; been meaning to look for a new series to check out.

mystic86

I find it weird that they have Naughty Dog at 5th, not cause I disagree with them, but just based on their own review scores of Naughty Dog games:

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception - 90
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves - 90
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune - 80
Jak 3 - 60
Jak II - 70

johnny_ultimate

Kinski wrote: »

Is that Persona one supposed to be any good? Haven't watched anime in years; been meaning to look for a new series to check out.

Its basically the same as the game (albeit with a speaking protagonist), for better and worse. It's certainly watchable with plenty of enjoyable moments for game fans (music cues new and old are awesome), and its fun seeing the creative ways the animators handle the structural quirks. But the game is the better experience overall.

gizmo

Awful list imo, Valve and Mojang's position exemplifies this perfectly.

Steam makes Valve a fantastic publisher, not developer. In terms of actual games, DOTA hasn't actually been released yet and CS:GO is simply an update to an older franchise whose primary objective was to bring the PC-orientated series to a consoles so again, no dice.

Based on EDGE's own criteria Mojang also shouldn't feature as highly as they did. Sure they should be commended for their continued support of Minecraft but its continued creativity comes from it's userbase, not the company behind it.

Compare these two companies with the likes of thatgamecompany; a tiny studio who delivered one of the most fantasticly innovative and beautiful games this generation on a small budget for a large platform holder who, following it's success still decided to walk away from Sony and seek independent funding; and the list looks more like something IGN would produce than a decent publication.

Also, what the **** are Playdead doing there? Limbo was released in 2010 for christs sake.

Retr0gamer

gizmo wrote: »

Also, what the **** are Playdead doing there? Limbo was released in 2010 for christs sake.

And wasn't all that great tbh.

Dave_The_Sheep

It's Edge, I don't know why people are surprised at how off the rankings are, or that some are so low down.

K.O.Kiki

People still buy EDGE?

Sierra Oscar

I know Bethesda are at #20, but I would have placed them within the top ten. They have done the RPG genre a great justice over the last two decades.

hooradiation

Mojang is the only misstep on that list.

Kiith

gizmo wrote: »

Steam makes Valve a fantastic publisher, not developer. In terms of actual games, DOTA hasn't actually been released yet and CS:GO is simply an update to an older franchise whose primary objective was to bring the PC-orientated series to a consoles so again, no dice.

Do Half Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress not count?

I'd definitely pick Valve at the top. They make fantastic games, and they've also drastically changed the face of digital distribution on the pc.

hooradiation

gizmo wrote: »

Steam makes Valve a fantastic publisher, not developer.

Well, Valve aren't even a publisher in the traditional sense, they don't finance all those games on steam, after all.
I guess it makes them a retailer, really.

gizmo

Kiith wrote: »

Do Half Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress not count?

In the context of a list of more recent and/or modern developers? Nope. Back in 2007/2008 and the release of The Orange Box they should have been ahead by a country mile. If you were to argue that games released since the late nineties (Half-Life: 1998) should be included then I'd argue Nintendo EAD should have a firm grip on the top spot.

EDIT...

Kiith wrote: »

I'd definitely pick Valve at the top. They make fantastic games, and they've also drastically changed the face of digital distribution on the pc.

hooradiation wrote: »

Well, Valve aren't even a publisher in the traditional sense, they don't finance all those games on steam, after all.
I guess it makes them a retailer, really.

Actually yea, I guess that's true. They're basically a modern day bricks and mortar store, they handle distribution and take their cut along the way. The fact that they often provide easy access to large quantities of those games for extremely discounted prices doesn't warrant special treatment in a list of the world's top game developers however.

Grimebox

Mojang? WTF? I had to look them up. They have only done minecraft. That is it. I won't read any further.

Reekwind

gizmo wrote: »

The fact that they often provide easy access to large quantities of those games for extremely discounted prices doesn't warrant special treatment in a list of the world's top game developers however.

Are Valve a developer? Yes. Are Valve massively significant in shaping the PC gaming platform? Yes. Is Gabe Newell something of a visionary (or at least perceived as such) in the games industry? Yes. Should Valve be on a list of relevant contemporary developers? Of course

I don't see the point of splitting hairs here. Valve still excites people and is clearly a hugely influential, or at least prominent, PC developer

In the context of a list of more recent and/or modern developers? Nope

Why would you suggest that TF2 is no longer influential or an important piece of the PC gaming firmament? The last I checked it had received a content update less than a month ago and the F2P/Hats economy remains very much relevant today

Grimebox wrote:

Mojang? WTF? I had to look them up. They have only done minecraft. That is it. I won't read any further.

You had to look up the developer of what is almost certainly the most influential PC game of the past decade? Really?

Grimebox

Reekwind wrote: »

You had to look up the developer of what is almost certainly the most influential PC game of the past decade? Really?

I played minecraft for about an hour and moved on. It wasn't for me, I don't care for it.

johnny_ultimate

Here's the published list with Edge's justifications for their choices:

http://www.edge-online.com/features/edge-developer-awards-2013-the-top-50-studios-working-today/

Gunmonkey

gizmo wrote: »

The fact that they often provide easy access to large quantities of those games for extremely discounted prices doesn't warrant special treatment in a list of the world's top game developers however.

Pretty much, and if it does......then, as was posted before, where the hell is CD Project? They take ancient out of production PC games, re-engineer them to work on modern PC's with no DRM (but not always a 100% work rate) and sell them for at most $10...and have ridiculous sales too.

K.O.Kiki

Grimebox wrote: »

I played minecraft for about an hour and moved on. It wasn't for me, I don't care for it.

But can you see how its distribution model, simplicity of design and progressively generated world are highly influential on the way games are evolving?

Grimebox

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

But can you see how its distribution model, simplicity of design and progressively generated world are highly influential on the way games are evolving?

You're right, I don't know anything about Mojang. What was their distribution model? I'm fairly sure I bought it from Notch's site

I think minecraft took off when I was fed up with the industries obsession with open-world sandbox style games. I prefer some form of linearity, a dialogue with the player. Minecraft did the exact opposite. I probably should have given it more time

gizmo

Reekwind wrote: »

Are Valve a developer? Yes. Are Valve massively significant in shaping the PC gaming platform? Yes. Is Gabe Newell something of a visionary (or at least perceived as such) in the games industry? Yes. Should Valve be on a list of relevant contemporary developers? Of course

I don't see the point of splitting hairs here. Valve still excites people and is clearly a hugely influential, or at least prominent, PC developer

I firmly believe they should be listed of course, just not at the top of it. As I've said, the list was about game developers so one should focus on the game development efforts of the companies in question. There's no doubt Valve have accomplished great things with Steam I just think they're irrelevant in this context.

Reekwind wrote: »

Why would you suggest that TF2 is no longer influential or an important piece of the PC gaming firmament? The last I checked it had received a content update less than a month ago and the F2P/Hats economy remains very much relevant today

Again, all relevant to their presence in the charts, just not at the top when compared to the more recent efforts of other developers.

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Pretty much, and if it does......then, as was posted before, where the hell is CD Project? They take ancient out of production PC games, re-engineer them to work on modern PC's with no DRM (but not always a 100% work rate) and sell them for at most $10...and have ridiculous sales too.

I was actually going to use them in a comparison to Valve. The difference is, CD Projekt RED is, strictly speaking, the development arm of that collection of companies so it's easier to differentiate their efforts from that of their sister/parent companies.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

But can you see how its distribution model, simplicity of design and progressively generated world are highly influential on the way games are evolving?

Most of which was a continuation of the work begun with Infiniminer so again, while praise is most certainly due, at some stage continued updates to an already wildly successful title should only carry you so far in a list such as this.

Scavenger XIII

I'd just like to chip in and state that the list is garbage. :pac:

Neither Treasure nor Clover, and a bunch of studios that have put out 2-3 games that weren't even any good?

johnny_ultimate

Clover don't exist anymore!!!! Of course they aren't included. Platinum are number four, which is effectively the same thing.

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

I firmly believe they should be listed of course, just not at the top of it. As I've said, the list was about game developers so one should focus on the game development efforts of the companies in question. There's no doubt Valve have accomplished great things with Steam I just think they're irrelevant in this context.


Again, all relevant to their presence in the charts, just not at the top when compared to the more recent efforts of other developers.


I was actually going to use them in a comparison to Valve. The difference is, CD Projekt RED is, strictly speaking, the development arm of that collection of companies so it's easier to differentiate their efforts from that of their sister/parent companies.


Most of which was a continuation of the work begun with Infiniminer so again, while praise is most certainly due, at some stage continued updates to an already wildly successful title should only carry you so far in a list such as this.

Who would you have at #1 then ? Since valve strated releasing games on the source engine they have released:

Half life 2 ( Aswel as episode 1 + 2 )
CS:S + CS:GO
Team Fortress 2
Left 4 Dead 1 + 2
Portal 1 + 2
Dota 2 (it may Aswel be released !!)

All of which have done well (or extremely well) critically. So that's 9 games and a few expansions in 9 years.

Good enough for me anyway.

gizmo

Magill wrote: »

Who would you have at #1 then ? Since valve strated releasing games on the source engine they have released:

Half life 2 ( Aswel as episode 1 + 2 )
CS:S + CS:GO
Team Fortress 2
Left 4 Dead 1 + 2
Portal 1 + 2
Dota 2 (it may Aswel be released !!)

All of which have done well (or extremely well) critically. So that's 9 games and a few expansions in 9 years.

Good enough for me anyway.

Well if you're drawing the line at the release of Half Life 2 then I'd be inclined to say Valve. The further back you push the line, the stronger Nintendo EAD become. Pull it closer to 2012, the stronger some of the other entrants come as I explained above. The problem is that based on the list as originally presented, it was impossible to tell where that line was being drawn.

The official link johnny_ultimate provided does shed some more light on the list though, this is a list of the top 50 studios working today and their criteria is pretty damn open ended. In light of that (and with the knowledge that we'll probably never get any kind of concensus ), I'll just go with Nintendo EAD as my number one.

Magill

gizmo wrote: »

Well if you're drawing the line at the release of Half Life 2 then I'd be inclined to say Valve. The further back you push the line, the stronger Nintendo EAD become. Pull it closer to 2012, the stronger some of the other entrants come as I explained above. The problem is that based on the list as originally presented, it was impossible to tell where that line was being drawn.

The official link johnny_ultimate provided does shed some more light on the list though, this is a list of the top 50 studios working today and their criteria is pretty damn open ended. In light of that (and with the knowledge that we'll probably never get any kind of concensus ), I'll just go with Nintendo EAD as my number one.

They would probably be my 1 2. Valve would still be #1 for me because their games are better on average. Nintendo EAD is basically 5 developers rolled into one.. So it has more than a few rotten eggs, insane amount of classics over the years tho.

If today we were told both valve and nintendo were announcing a new game at e3, i know which i would be more excited about.

hooradiation

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Here's the published list with Edge's justifications for their choices:

http://www.edge-online.com/features/edge-developer-awards-2013-the-top-50-studios-working-today/

This ought to be required reading before any more bitching about the list.
It's pretty clear about the why of studios being on the list.


Even if I still think mojang don't deserve to be there.

Kiith

hooradiation wrote: »

Even if I still think mojang don't deserve to be there.

Neither does Notch...apparently.

PcGamer wrote:

In a show of humility, Notch expressed skepticism over Twitter after Edge Magazine named Mojang the number two game studio working today. The emperors of indie came in just behind Valve at the top spot, with the two of them making up the only PC developers in the top five.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/14/notch-mojang-valve-edge/