Lloyd Irvin students accused of rape and Lloyds shady past

darced

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slammer187

This thread won't last for very long but two things need to be highlighted here....Nick Schultz and Matthew Maldanado are innocent until proven guilty so there's no point in making assumptions before the full story is released (appearance vs. reality)

There's obviously a reason Lloyd Irvin isn't in jail today for the incident back in the 90's....anybody could have been present there and even if he didn't try to talk the others out of it do you think you're going to be able to persuade a group of drunk/violent college students when you may even be drunk yourself?

I'm sitting on the fence here but these 2 guys have a huge amount of potential to become world champions and it's not fair to completely tarnish their reputations before all evidence is released

darced

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Richy06

I think it's a pretty cut and dry case. Apparently there's video of them both raping her repeatedly in a parking garage. The cops were pretty dubious about her story until they found the video. Police raided the 'Jungle' house and arrested them then. They were after telling her they'd bring her home after she was too drunk at a party. One of the sickest parts of it is, she's one of their teammates.

In the eyes of the courts, they may be innocent until proven guilty, but in the eyes of any reasonable person they're pretty much f**ked.

I've been reading online today that the rape prevention video came online yesterday and that within the day it was one of the top 2 searches on Google when you typed his name in there. Which is one of those marketing techniques he's so famous for of late.

Now the gist of the Lloyd's own story is, in 1990, a 20-year-old Lloyd Irvin took part in a gang bang of a drunk 17-year-old. Irvin was accused of having intercourse with her while an accomplice held her down. Irvin was acquitted because he said he wanted to have sex with her, but couldn't get it up. That meant the other guy couldn't be convicted of helping Lloyd rape her. But the other guy was still convicted of forcing the victim to perform oral sex.

What I want to know, is how a man with a past like that feels it's his place to make a rape prevention video...to much irony going on there.

A pretty divisive figure just got more so.

Chris89

Im not sure whats going to happen to the two lads in question, but I hope this wont affect any of the other athletes in any way. there is certainly enough gob****es online looking to paint everyone with the one brush.

The news report quotes the cops saying they have footage of the whole thing, it doesnt look good for the two boys if thats the case.

p to the e

Gi or no-gi?

Chris89

someone was raped you knacker.

Richy06

p to the e wrote: »

Gi or no-gi?

Really?

darced

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Chris89

darced wrote: »

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I think those lads might already know a thing or two about 'difficult'. I dont see the mistakes of a few individuals getting in the way of these guys goals.

Doug Cartel

Guys can you just stick to what's been reported, and avoid speculating about what will happen to team-mates, etc, that aren't directly related to the incident.

RoboRat

Guys can you just stick to what's been reported, and avoid speculating about what will happen to team-mates, etc, that aren't directly related to the incident.

And no f*cking smart comments about rape either.

EnjoyChoke

p to the e wrote: »

Gi or no-gi?

Cop yourself on.

p to the e

Yeesh tough crowd!


Here's the report in case anyone is interested.
http://bcove.me/o1uivhk7

darced

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pablohoney87

darced wrote: »

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If it anyone has been charged or it does go to court he would be best not to.

conor678

I see online and in some other mma forums and websites Lloyd Irwin gets a lot of stick. Is there any reason for this or do people not like his club methods or teaching? Is it got to do with his medals success in comps? Just curious

pablohoney87

conor678 wrote: »

I see online and in some other mma forums and websites Lloyd Irwin gets a lot of stick. Is there any reason for this or do people not like his club methods or teaching? Is it got to do with his medals success in comps? Just curious

From what I see its mainly to do with his marketing.
For example releasing a rape prevention video while people are discussing this case means the a google search of something like "loyd irvin rape" this could pop up instead.
Kinda a cheap trick to distract from the story

conor678

pablohoney87 wrote: »

From what I see its mainly to do with his marketing.
For example releasing a rape prevention video while people are discussing this case means the a google search of something like "loyd irvin rape" this could pop up instead.
Kinda a cheap trick to distract from the story

Yeah i did think releasing the video after the incident was crass and in bad taste and stinks of a pr exercise. I just wondered if some of the hate Lloyd Irwin was getting as due to his club and how he sells himself in bjj circles. Saying that he must be a good teacher if he can churn out so many good black belts

pablohoney87

conor678 wrote: »

Yeah i did think releasing the video after the incident was crass and in bad taste and stinks of a pr exercise. I just wondered if some of the hate Lloyd Irwin was getting as due to his club and how he sells himself in bjj circles. Saying that he must be a good teacher if he can churn out so many good black belts

I dont really dislike the guy or have a problem with most of his marketing. But he just doensnt come across that likeable to me in interviews etc. Guys like ken primola (One of loyds bbs), MG, Robert Drysdale all market themselves well too. But they also come across very likeable and like genuinely nice guys. Lloyyd just doesnt come across the same way tbh

conor678

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/11/3864948/mma-bjj-ufc-lloyd-irvin-purchases-lloydirvinrape-marketing

Some more food for thought on this. Seems very strange and badly thought out move

darced

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slammer187

darced wrote: »

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There's probably no team in America that could push Keenan as hard as TLI do, there's no team that produces world champions and the rate that TLI do and since Keenan moved there he has come on leaps and bounds which he may not be able to do in any other club....I don't think it would be a good move to switch teams and the only place that he could really go would probably be ATOS anyways

Kieran81

^^ some things more important than a medal , but to be honest i cant see any of them leavin TLI , most of them i've seen interviewed come across as almost brainwashed (for lack of a better word) and create an almost cult-like aura when talkin bout TLI and i'm sure whatever he says to them they'll back him up all the way

darced

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Chris89

darced wrote: »

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thats pretty interesting. where did yuo see this?

conor678

Genuine question who is kenan? Is he the Irish guy training in Lloyd Irwin s team and what level is he at and how is he doing in international comps

Richy06

Bloody Elbow will have an article about this soon, but the statement is legit - it's from his father's FB page.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/keenans-father-speaks-2354373/

darced

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Andrew H

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I dont really dislike the guy or have a problem with most of his marketing. But he just doensnt come across that likeable to me in interviews etc. Guys like ken primola (One of loyds bbs), MG, Robert Drysdale all market themselves well too. But they also come across very likeable and like genuinely nice guys. Lloyyd just doesnt come across the same way tbh

Ken Primola is a Balance Black Belt under Phil Migilarise.

Andrew H

This looks really bad for Martial Arts and the sport of Jiu JItsu in general.

From all the media reports and reports of CCTV footage of the incident the 2 suspects will be spending time in Jail and the victim will need a lot of help and counselling to recover.

Lloyd Irvings sales tactics and marketing are beyond contemptible in this case.

arybvtcw0eolkf

p to the e wrote: »

Gi or no-gi?

If I was thought I was covered I would perma ban you from this forum for this remark.

pablohoney87

Andrew H wrote: »

Ken Primola is a Balance Black Belt under Phil Migilarise.

Really? He referred to loyd as his master on facebook?
Changed teams?

bjj-fighter

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Really? He referred to loyd as his master on facebook?
Changed teams?

He was down to help DJ Jackson with his wrestling for Nogi for a while there this year before the Worlds, and gained had a lot of respect for Lloyd from the experience, judging from what he wrote. Maybe he's just referring to him as Master because most people do, or he is talking about the stuff he learnt from Lloyd Irvin while there! Doubt he switched teams really.

SaraYoga

So ****ty to think these guys would do this to anybody, but especially a teammate!! Raging!

Andrew H

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Really? He referred to loyd as his master on facebook?
Changed teams?

As BJJ Fighter said Ken was brought in to help with wrestling take downs. He is still part of Balance if you check out his video clips you'll see the Balance logo hanging on the wall in the back of the video shot.

dlofnep

Been following this over on the UG - One of Lloyd's black belts posted in his defense:



Revolting comments for a martial arts instructor to call a 17 year old rape victim a "whore". He should be boycotted, along with the entire Lloyd Irvin team.

RoboRat

Jesus that guy is deluded.

Firstly, you cant justify a rape. Ever. No matter what you feel about the person(s) involved. I wonder would he be so quick to justify it if it was his daughter.

Secondly, using SEO to profiteer off the back of a crime is JUST WRONG. I work in marketing and you sometimes have to be a bit soulless, but there are lines that you shouldn't cross and they didn't just step over that line, the went so far over it they are out of sight. Imagine if Ruger came out with an advert for their rifle as used by Anders Breivik? Its not much different. To cover it up under the guise of SEO is pathetic.

Richy06

Keenan's Dad has his final word on the matter.



Also, Keenan's sister has posted this on his FB wall:

"“COPA PODIO 2013! That was an awesome tournament! You really did an amazing job Keenan Cornelius! But under the circumstances, I want to address the TLI patch on the gi you wore. This is not meant to be a private message, and I sincerely hop…e you do not take this off your page. The recent allegations toward your coach (which he has ignored but not contradicted) and the atrocious gang rape by your team mates as seen via public security camera, is an issue the Jiu Jitsu community is talking about waiting to hear your response to.

I just read the police report describing your teammate’s recent gang rape (documented via parking garage security camera). The content is sick and graphic. The young girl was repeatedly raped, brutalized, and left in a parking garage. I will not elaborate, as I know you will take the time to read the report yourself. I speak as a humanitarian, fan, and sister when I say that based on this disgusting crime, and the fact that Lloyd has yet to confirm that he is NOT the Lloyd E Irvin Jr. from Bowie University involved in the 1990 gang rape, I sincerely hope you make plans to train elsewhere.

While I know many of your teammates are amazing individuals who have become your family, considering the circumstances, practicing under Lloyd and living in a house – which turns out to be much more of a Jungle than anyone ever suspected – is extremely unhealthy and unsupported. There are many men, women, boys and girls who admire you, and I look forward to seeing the example you set. To an extent I understand you not wanting to deal with this days before Copa Podio. But the team you represent represents you. And while I love and support you with all my heart, I can not support the TLI patch you sported today.

Because many people have written to me asking about your decisions and feelings regarding the circumstances of your current team, I know I speak for many when I say we trust, hope, and want you to continue your blossoming career with honor, respect, morality — and a team and coach which represents all that.

Again, congrats on today, you gave great fights, you really showed everyone they can expect great things from you. Keep showing them that! I love you ♥"

To which some TLI 'sympathisers' took it upon themselves to post some, apparently, pretty nasty stuff at her in response. All have since been removed.

But DJ Jackson then responded.

Pt1


Pt2



This ongoing. David Avellan and others weighing in on it too.
All the above was gotten from the comments thread under the BloodyElbow story from earlier.

Chris89

Richy06 wrote: »

Keenan's Dad has his final word on the matter.



Also, Keenan's sister has posted this on his FB wall:

"“COPA PODIO 2013! That was an awesome tournament! You really did an amazing job Keenan Cornelius! But under the circumstances, I want to address the TLI patch on the gi you wore. This is not meant to be a private message, and I sincerely hop…e you do not take this off your page. The recent allegations toward your coach (which he has ignored but not contradicted) and the atrocious gang rape by your team mates as seen via public security camera, is an issue the Jiu Jitsu community is talking about waiting to hear your response to.

I just read the police report describing your teammate’s recent gang rape (documented via parking garage security camera). The content is sick and graphic. The young girl was repeatedly raped, brutalized, and left in a parking garage. I will not elaborate, as I know you will take the time to read the report yourself. I speak as a humanitarian, fan, and sister when I say that based on this disgusting crime, and the fact that Lloyd has yet to confirm that he is NOT the Lloyd E Irvin Jr. from Bowie University involved in the 1990 gang rape, I sincerely hope you make plans to train elsewhere.

While I know many of your teammates are amazing individuals who have become your family, considering the circumstances, practicing under Lloyd and living in a house – which turns out to be much more of a Jungle than anyone ever suspected – is extremely unhealthy and unsupported. There are many men, women, boys and girls who admire you, and I look forward to seeing the example you set. To an extent I understand you not wanting to deal with this days before Copa Podio. But the team you represent represents you. And while I love and support you with all my heart, I can not support the TLI patch you sported today.

Because many people have written to me asking about your decisions and feelings regarding the circumstances of your current team, I know I speak for many when I say we trust, hope, and want you to continue your blossoming career with honor, respect, morality — and a team and coach which represents all that.

Again, congrats on today, you gave great fights, you really showed everyone they can expect great things from you. Keep showing them that! I love you ♥"

To which some TLI 'sympathisers' took it upon themselves to post some, apparently, pretty nasty stuff at her in response. All have since been removed.

But DJ Jackson then responded.

Pt1


Pt2



This ongoing. David Avellan and others weighing in on it too.
All the above was gotten from the comments thread under the BloodyElbow story from earlier.

Not taking away from the severity of the incident, but i cant help agree with DJ in this instance ,and i seem to be in a minority.

darced

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Chris89

darced wrote: »

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the reasons he bough the site seem obvious to me and my online marketing knowledge is extremely limited.

Im actually not joking, if a court of law can find him not guilty, then i certainly can too. especially considering it was what, 20 years ago? and I wasnt there so im not too sure of the details.

I know it doesnt seem to be the popular view but there you go.

as for the two lads in the recent case, that seems to be much more clear cut.

im not condoning rape or anything.

Richy06

Sure, he was found guilty of not raping the girl, but he did stand by and do nothing about it whilst his buddies did. His defence was a case of whiskey d*ck...otherwise he'd have been the same.

His actions in the past few days have done him no favours. For a person of his profile, in his position, he should have made a statement rather than cover it up and dodge any requests for interviews or a statement.

darced

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Chris89

darced wrote: »

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Have you researched the case seriously? as in not just what other lads are saying on forums? I havent, but i'm asking you?

As crass as it may sound, he probably has a better idea of how to prevent a rape than most, if what were told is true.

Perhaps that mistake in his past made him into a different person, and he is holding these classes (which i think i read were free) to make up for this.

As for the timing of his posts and the cover ups, this happens every day, in many different areas of business. Companies manipulate google searches all the time. Just because you can be mates with him on facebook doesnt make it any different.

I obviously dont know the real story and the context of the situation 20 years ago, but i dont think anyone else does either. If anyone researched the case yuo'd have to imagine it was the judge and jury. And i dont see any of them telling keenan he needs to switch teams on facebook.

darced

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Chris89

im not coming down on anyones side, i just think trial by internet is a funny thing. literally none of us know what were talking about.

SDTimeout

Cool thought, who do you think Keenan should join if he does leave TLI. I think he should join Atos or Mendes Bros would stick his style.

Richy06

I reckon he could go anywhere he wants. If he wants to stay in the area, there's Ryan Hall's 50/50. But he could really have his pick of teams.

dlofnep

Chris89 wrote: »

im not coming down on anyones side, i just think trial by internet is a funny thing. literally none of us know what were talking about.

Yes we do - We've read the court reports. Irvin stood by while his buddies raped a young girl, and professed a desire to rape her - but was incapable of actually performing due to limp-dick syndrome..

Now imagine this was your sister. How apathetic would you be then? I'm guessing - not as much. I'm shocked about the amount of apology for rape or rape facilitation on here and elsewhere. You should be ashamed of yourself for siding with Irvin. Utterly ashamed.

Chris89

I'm not siding with anyone. do you know the circumstances surrounding the incident? why he was there, who the people he was with were? do you think the 'limp dick syndrome' could have been because he didnt want to do it? if you somehow found yuorself in the same situation (extreme hypothetical), do you think you would have been able to stop it

these are all serious questions, im not taking away from the seriousness of the crime. Im just not going to start lambasting someone online just because of something i read, also on the internet.

I also cant help but take into consideration the amount of people that already didnt like him and would be jumping at his throat given any chance, anything could have came out in the news about him and there would have been the same reaction.