Atheist and don't like it.

robindch

The Mustard wrote: »

[...] that Hector and Gay Byrne are your next door neighbours for all eternity.

I bumped into Hector in Manama airport Bahrain airport a few years back as he was staring, open-mouthed at the head of a huge moose that somebody had nailed to the wall about nine feet off the floor, just to the right of a coffee stand. The following conversation ensued:

Hector (noticing that I'd noticed him; points at moose; glum voice): I'm easily amused.
Me (remembering some lame telly of his I'd seen recently): Well, I'm not (walks off)

I think it came out wrong, but then again, maybe it didn't.

nozzferrahhtoo

robindch wrote: »

I bumped into Hector in Manama (Do doo be-do-do) airport Bahrain airport a few years back as he was staring, open-mouthed at the head of a huge moose that somebody had nailed to the wall about nine feet off the floor, just to the right of a coffee stand.

FYP.

oldrnwisr

aaronjumper wrote: »

Okay I am a long time lurker no time poster. I still have a lot to learn but here is my standpoint.

I am 100% atheist I do not beleive there is any higher being watching over us.

What I want to ask is are my fellow atheists not bothered by this fact?
I mean the beleifs of others are that when we die we get reunited with lost loved ones. So far so good. (for some)

We also get to live an eternity of bliss. Nice one.

I sometimes, rarely but still, find myself getting upset because of the fact that when life ends that is it, goodbye, nice knowing you.

Sometimes I am jealous of the faithful. Is no one else not enjoying being an atheist? I had a longer post planned but I do not have a keyboard. It took me twenty minutes to get this far

Are other atheists happy with being atheists apart from being liberated from their religions?

Are you okay with the fact that this is it for better or worse rich or poor when we die it is all over?

I know that a lot of the faithful fear death but given their beleif system they shouldn't. As an atheist death does not scare me. It is the nothingness that comes after that does.

Apologies for the long flaky post but that is the best I can do so far.
Be gentle. :pac:

What about the nothingness before? I mean before you came on stage the universe had been around for 13 billion years and all that time you were in a state of nothingness, which I assume you don't have a problem with. So why is it a problem to return to that state for another 13 billion years.

From my own perspective, I find the truth far more satisfying than believing some comfortable lie.

Finally, as far as the "meet all you loved ones in the afterlife" goes I'll let Stephen Fry explain the problems with that scenario:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzfCtGFgRSk

nagirrac wrote: »

I would encourage you to live your life to the full, follow your bliss wherever it takes you, and maintain an open mind. On the latter point, I would respectively encourage you to reconsider your 100% atheist belief. We have (currently at least) no way of knowing (knowledge as opposed to belief) whether there is a creative intelligence behind our universe or not. Although atheists dispute this argument, there is more evidence (albeit subjective) for a creative intelligence than for any currently proposed alternative.

What we know from science is that the universe is very finely tuned, otherwise we could not exist. If we accept the big bang theory as the start of our physical universe as we observe it, there are really only two logical possibilities, either 1) a conscious intelligence designed it as such, or 2) ours is one of an infinite number of universes that happens to have the right physical properties for us to exist. We cannot observe any other universes so imo belief in the latter is as objectively speculative as the former.

Oh dear, not this again.

Since there is no credible evidence to suggest any kind of deity I'm not sure what you mean by "more evidence than for any proposed alternative"

Secondly, the fine-tuning argument, out of all the arguments for the existence of a God, is the most fundamentally flawed. In fact, if I were to start detailing all the problems of the fine-tuning argument then it would probably end up being the longest post in boards history. Just one tiny example of the problems with this argument is that we can already show that life is possible without two of the four fundamental forces of nature and yet you think the universe is fine-tuned.

Also, your assumptions about the big bang are wrong. Those are not the only two possibilities for a start, and also you're invoking the fallacy of equivocation that because we don't have conclusive evidence either way that both ideas must have equal merit. They don't.

Finally, the OP is talking about his concerns about there not being an afterlife if you're an atheist. Even if we accept the fine-tuning argument as evidence for a "creative intelligence", that does not imply that there must be an afterlife. You've still got a massive conceptual leap to bridge between "creative intelligence" and any of the religions which propose a continuation of existence after death.

seamus

nagirrac wrote: »

We cannot observe any other universes so imo belief in the latter is as objectively speculative as the former.

In other words, "All opinions are nonsense, but you might as well go with my nonsense because it's better than yours".

Sarky

You know all those folks who do believe in an afterlife? They're all going to die too. What they believe doesn't matter. All that prayer and church and evangelising, that's time they could have spent hanging out with friends, listening to a new album, playing a game online, writing that novel, booking tickets to halfway across the world with a loved one or any number of other things.

There won't be a you to feel sad about being dead just like there wasn't a you to feel anxious about not being born. And it's the one thing in life that is totally, unequivocally impossible to avoid. So there really is no point worrying about it (although I should point out that avoiding tax is illegal and may get you into trouble). You don't have to be rich to enjoy life. Carpe diem. Carpe the living f*ck out of it.

Sulla Felix

My father dying was easily the hardest test of my lack of faith. It was never the time to balk at going to mass etc so for a good week or so I was surrounded by people being visibly comforted by therr faith.
Im still an atheist even if I'd love to have five minutes with him or even to know he could hear what I had to say. I wouldn't go do far as to say that I don't want or like being one, it did give me a bit of understanding of the other side though.

Penn

Sulla Felix wrote: »

My father dying was easily the hardest test of my lack of faith. It was never the time to balk at going to mass etc so for a good week or so I was surrounded by people being visibly comforted by therr faith.
Im still an atheist even if I'd love to have five minutes with him or even to know he could hear what I had to say. I wouldn't go do far as to say that I don't want or like being one, it did give me a bit of understanding of the other side though.

It is the ultimate selling point of most religions, and how it so easily grew among people. I'm sure it gives great comfort with regards death, whether helping people accept a family member's death by believing that you'll see them again, or even great comfort for your own death as you believe it's not really the end.

Gbear

I think the belief that people will see their relatives, friends, etc, when they die is just as vacuous as the rest of religious beliefs. It's something that seems superficially "nice". Religion is full of those sorts of shallow beliefs. You can make that sort of comment in a throwaway fashion at a funeral and people just nod. There's no depth of thought put into it.

Personally, I get very little from the "we came from stars" sort of thinking or any other positive spin that's put on no longer existing.

Ultimately, it's pointless to worry because it's inevitable and there's no element of jealousy involved because it's inevitable for everyone.
That doesn't mean I don't get bothered about it. It just means I get more annoyed with myself for worrying about something I can't do anything about.

I think how you deal with this question is more down to personality than anything. My own solution is to avoid thinking about it by doing **** rather than fruitlessly grappling with it.

Obliq

There isn't a great deal of difference between the way religious and atheist people live their lives, apart from the comfort that religious people feel in the notion of an afterlife, and the time they waste out of their lives in going to church/praying, etc. (of course they wouldn't see it as wasted time)

Why was the notion of afterlife (heaven and hell) made up in the first place? To encourage people to lead a good and moral life - to guide them towards the moral codes, with the threat of hell if they ignore them. We manage to live by our natural morals just fine without that threat, yet we're left with that uncomfortable feeling that this is all there is, as opposed to the comfort from being good will get you to heaven. Why do we see this as uncomfortable, even though we need no carrot/stick to guide us? Maybe because of the idea of comfort giving other people something we can't have. Realistically, those people need so much more reassurance than us - often and especially on their deathbeds - when the idea that they might have been living a lie becomes more important.

I get comfort from the fact that my remains will be recycled/upcycled by the universe, as will all my loved ones. The same atoms that make up me, have always been here and always will be. I wonder what I'll be next?! (the tiniest particles that I'm using anyway....)

HHobo

Sarky wrote: »

You know all those folks who do believe in an afterlife? They're all going to die too. What they believe doesn't matter. All that prayer and church and evangelising, that's time they could have spent hanging out with friends, listening to a new album, playing a game online, writing that novel, booking tickets to halfway across the world with a loved one or any number of other things.

This is certainly true but as Aaron post shows, there is another way to look at it.
These believers may be happier in general because of their beliefs. (I think there is even some research that backs that up, but I can't recall where it came from so I don't know if it was reliable at all) The atheist with all his extra time could be going about full of anxiety.

Sarky

And the religious person could be fretting all their life about whether they'll manage to avoid the eternal tortures of Hell. That's more an argument about negative thinking than it is about atheism.

I think the atheist has more opportunity to enjoy life without being bogged down with religious baggage and fuzzy magical thinking. It's up to them whether they take advantage of it or not. If they're scared, there are ways to deal with it.

Roger_007

Those who reason that life must have some purpose are right. The purpose is to survive and procreate. This is clearly true for all other forms of life so why not for human beings. To argue that there be an afterlife for humans only is patently ridiculous. There is nothing special about us.

HHobo

The Mustard wrote: »

.... until the discovery comes that Hector and Gay Byrne are your next door neighbours for all eternity.

*shudder*

Kidchameleon

What has being atheist got to do with beleiving in an afterlife? Religion doesent own the afterlife you know

Artful_Badger

The end of consciousness is an eternity of bliss, non existence is the only true freedom. Imagine eternal self awareness for a second. Sounds horrific to me.

I much prefer knowing I have a set number of years as a self aware being to experience what the world has to offer and then get switched off.

Artful_Badger

Kidchameleon wrote: »

But you essentially switch off every night when you go to sleep. At least that's what it feels like to me. I'm sure if there were an after life you could go to "sleep" whenever you please.

I assume it would be the same as we are now though if it were going to be the same type of awareness. So even though you can switch off for a sleep you're always going to wake up. And if you literally have infinity to think you're going to think a hell of a lot about the fact you have infinity to think and the realisation that its never going to end and you are forever trapped in your own mind. I wouldnt imagine you'd be very chipper on the morning of your seventeen billionth birthday.

Dades

All "Fine Tuning" (off topic) posts have been moved to a new thread here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056852021

Post another in this one at your peril...

Undergod

I find the idea of death pretty terrifying, but I wouldn't say I'm unhappy to be an atheist, or I don't like being an atheism. I didn't choose to be - I stopped believing. Liking it or disliking it wouldn't really occur to me.

Tim Robbins

One thing I miss about religion is the sense of community and tradition. I have two kids now and I think there's so much in Ireland that is not family friendly. If I was a mass goer you could bring the kids every now and again and meet other families without being ripped off or feeling like you are being awkward to others' without kids. You can organise play dates all you like but it's hassle organising - mass you just show up. In some ways the church is a pub for families.

My kids will hopefully go on to play sports and that will fill that gap but when they are 0 - 5, it's harder.

Bannasidhe

Penn wrote: »

It is the ultimate selling point of most religions, and how it so easily grew among people. I'm sure it gives great comfort with regards death, whether helping people accept a family member's death by believing that you'll see them again, or even great comfort for your own death as you believe it's not really the end.

Absolutely. But I can't help but seeing it as buying a pig in a poke.