Media request re new EU directive

jakdublin

Hi guys,
I'm a journalist, as well as a vaper and a contributor to this sub-forum, and I'm putting together a piece for the Northside People newspaper in Dublin on the new directive.
It's basically a news piece saying how the new rules will impact on e-cigs as a method to quit smoking and how locals are appalled by this. As it's a local paper I'm looking for a local to give their experience on how they quit cigarettes by vaping and their opinion on the new directive.
The only stipulation is that whoever it is should come from or live in Dublin 1, 7, 9, 11 or 15 as these are the areas covered by the edition of the paper I work on.
If anybody is interested in giving me a quick interview (and pose for a photo if possible) could they send me a PM with their phone number and I'll organise it for tomorrow. The interview should only take around five or ten minutes. I'm also open to including the views of vendors if they're based in the areas mentioned above.
Hope I'm not breaking any rules by asking this.
Cheers,
Jack

Celly Smunt

If you are breaking any rules (i don't think so though) i'd advise the moderators to waive it off,the issue needs as much publicity as possible.Sadly (or thank god :P) i'm a south sider.

The Pontiac

Is there any famous (or well known) vapers you could interview? It might hold more weight?


Lionel Shriver (journalist and author) did a good piece in The Guardian last week.

Actually, I can't think of any well known vapors. Someone here would gladly assist anyway.

Vaperus

Nice one
This is the kind of thing we need.
As your in the trade so to speak can you get any other coverage from other papers or media

jakdublin wrote: »

Hi guys,
I'm a journalist, as well as a vaper and a contributor to this sub-forum, and I'm putting together a piece for the Northside People newspaper in Dublin on the new directive.
It's basically a news piece saying how the new rules will impact on e-cigs as a method to quit smoking and how locals are appalled by this. As it's a local paper I'm looking for a local to give their experience on how they quit cigarettes by vaping and their opinion on the new directive.
The only stipulation is that whoever it is should come from or live in Dublin 1, 7, 9, 11 or 15 as these are the areas covered by the edition of the paper I work on.
If anybody is interested in giving me a quick interview (and pose for a photo if possible) could they send me a PM with their phone number and I'll organise it for tomorrow. The interview should only take around five or ten minutes. I'm also open to including the views of vendors if they're based in the areas mentioned above.
Hope I'm not breaking any rules by asking this.
Cheers,
Jack

jakdublin

Vaperus wrote: »

Nice one
This is the kind of thing we need.
As your in the trade so to speak can you get any other coverage from other papers or media

I'm hoping to. I work for one of the nationals as well so I'll be trying to get something in there as well.

Vaperus

Hi Guys
Dont forget to get as many people as possible to write to these as well tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie
http://www.dohc.ie/consultations/open/TobaccoProductsDirective/

Theres a time limit on it

Email it to everybody you know
Get it on your face book page
Make sure your supplier is sending it on to thier customers

was.deevey

It's basically a news piece saying how the new rules will impact on e-cigs as a method to quit smoking

First Mistake .. its not a method of quitting smoking, its a healthier alternative to those who cannot or would not normally quit.

If its widely seen and recognized as method to quit smoking, Vaping will go firmly under the Blanket of NRT.

donkey oatey

I know someone who just started vaping who lives in D9 but she's in Kerry 'till Fri. I've been getting her stuff though so she's got no idea about vendors and probably not much idea about equipment.

ben36

I'm in Dublin 11 and would be willing to do this.I'm only vaping 5 or so weeks so don't think this is long enough to be able to give you a full insight into everything but the option is there if you need it.

DirtyBollox

ben36 wrote: »

I'm in Dublin 11 and would be willing to do this.I'm only vaping 5 or so weeks so don't think this is long enough to be able to give you a full insight into everything but the option is there if you need it.

you would be great for it! What made you start? what kind of product were you introduced to? is it a harsh unforgiving community or a nice friendly one? whats your experience with it and would you consider going back and all that.

jakdublin

ben36 wrote: »

I'm in Dublin 11 and would be willing to do this.I'm only vaping 5 or so weeks so don't think this is long enough to be able to give you a full insight into everything but the option is there if you need it.

Yes, DB is right. You'd be perfect. Can you PM me your number? I'll send you a PM now with mine if it's easier to text it to me and we can have a chat about it.

DirtyBollox wrote: »

you would be great for it! What made you start? what kind of product were you introduced to? is it a harsh unforgiving community or a nice friendly one? whats your experience with it and would you consider going back and all that.

You looking for a job?

jakdublin

was.deevey wrote: »

First Mistake .. its not a method of quitting smoking, its a healthier alternative to those who cannot or would not normally quit.

If its widely seen and recognized as method to quit smoking, Vaping will go firmly under the Blanket of NRT.

Ha!

Well, I guess that's true but I reckon the reality is that most of us only take that view after a few weeks vaping. I'd say most of us went electronic with a view to eventually quitting and then realised we were enjoying having a vape without the ill effects of smoking so why bother stopping?

ben36

jakdublin wrote: »

Yes, DB is right. You'd be perfect. Can you PM me your number? I'll send you a PM now with mine if it's easier to text it to me and we can have a chat about it.

PM sent.See ya tomorrow!!

tommy2bad

Vaperus wrote: »

Hi Guys
Dont forget to get as many people as possible to write to these as well tobaccodirective@health.gov.ie
http://www.dohc.ie/consultations/open/TobaccoProductsDirective/

Theres a time limit on it

Email it to everybody you know
Get it on your face book page
Make sure your supplier is sending it on to thier customers

Is their an English version of that? I don't have many friends that read Cyrillic.

mewso

jakdublin wrote: »

Ha!

Well, I guess that's true but I reckon the reality is that most of us only take that view after a few weeks vaping. I'd say most of us went electronic with a view to eventually quitting and then realised we were enjoying having a vape without the ill effects of smoking so why bother stopping?

The key here is that while many vapers see it as quitting we have learnt not to describe it that way. Making quitting claims is fuel for the governing powers to medicalise the whole thing so it's much safer and true to a large extent to concentrate on calling it an alternative to smoking.

jakdublin

mewso wrote: »

The key here is that while many vapers see it as quitting we have learnt not to describe it that way. Making quitting claims is fuel for the governing powers to medicalise the whole thing so it's much safer and true to a large extent to concentrate on calling it an alternative to smoking.

Yes, that's true but there's no escaping the fact that the only people who vape are ex-smokers who began as a means to stop smoking. You can't really present it as anything else. I'm a dedicated vaper now for the past eight months and have no desire to stop so as I like feeling healthy and enjoy the taste and satisfaction, so in that context it's true to say I'm no longer vaping to stay off cigarettes.

However, I'm putting an addictive substance (that's lethal in large doses) into my system by a means that has little or no quality control. I'm at the mercy of a relatively new, unregulated market that I have to trust to make liquids that are safe. It's difficult to argue against regulation of a drug so no matter how we feel about it, this EU proposal is coming in some shape or form. I think the key is to argue for the type of regulation we want and the only proposal on that I've heard is self-regulation. I don't think any of us want to have to go to a pharmacy for our juice. It's up to vendors to come together as a body and draft a plan to regulate their industry and keep it out of the hands of the pharmacists.

tommy2bad

jakdublin wrote: »

Yes, that's true but there's no escaping the fact that the only people who vape are ex-smokers who began as a means to stop smoking. You can't really present it as anything else. I'm a dedicated vaper now for the past eight months and have no desire to stop so as I like feeling healthy and enjoy the taste and satisfaction, so in that context it's true to say I'm no longer vaping to stay off cigarettes.

However, I'm putting an addictive substance (that's lethal in large doses) into my system by a means that has little or no quality control. I'm at the mercy of a relatively new, unregulated market that I have to trust to make liquids that are safe. It's difficult to argue against regulation of a drug so no matter how we feel about it, this EU proposal is coming in some shape or form. I think the key is to argue for the type of regulation we want and the only proposal on that I've heard is self-regulation. I don't think any of us want to have to go to a pharmacy for our juice. It's up to vendors to come together as a body and draft a plan to regulate their industry and keep it out of the hands of the pharmacists.

I think the fact that you continue to use nicotine shows that presenting it as a 'quit' method is wide of the mark. Remember that the stop smoking people see total cessation of nicotine as the goal of quiting. One of their objections to ecig is that it delays or prevents cessation.
As to little or no quality control, thats not a fault of lack of regulation but of the fact that existing regulation isn't being applied probably due to low awareness of e juice. Self reg isn't an option, their are standards for any produce to be sold. Dose ejuice need more regulation than coffee or bleach or any number of products that are addictive or lethal in large doses? If it weren't for the association with smoking nicotine wouldn't come on the radar.

jakdublin

tommy2bad wrote: »

I think the fact that you continue to use nicotine shows that presenting it as a 'quit' method is wide of the mark. Remember that the stop smoking people see total cessation of nicotine as the goal of quiting. One of their objections to ecig is that it delays or prevents cessation.
As to little or no quality control, thats not a fault of lack of regulation but of the fact that existing regulation isn't being applied probably due to low awareness of e juice. Self reg isn't an option, their are standards for any produce to be sold. Dose ejuice need more regulation than coffee or bleach or any number of products that are addictive or lethal in large doses? If it weren't for the association with smoking nicotine wouldn't come on the radar.

In fairness, I think it does. Coffee might be addictive but you'd be hard pressed to drink enough of it for it to be dangerous and you don't ingest bleach. I just don't think you can break the association with smoking and vaping is a basically a (very pleasurable) form of harm reduction. People who never smoked will never vape so its only market is former smokers. But you're right, the mindset of anti-smokers needs to be changed. Vaping is a game changer that most people can't get their heads around.

was.deevey

In fairness, I think it does. Coffee might be addictive but you'd be hard pressed to drink enough of it for it to be dangerous and you don't ingest bleach.

I think the next best related products in the same category are both alcohol and cigarettes. There is no restriction of the amount of nicotine in a cigarette and there is no restriction of how much alcohol is in a bottle of spirits Both and can be bought in any off license or supermarket once you are over the age of 18. E-juice OR nicotine concentrate should be treated the same way.

Potentially I could die from smoking or drinking too much as well, we are supposed to be responsible enough not to overdo it, but cant ingest glycerine vapor from and e-cig which elevates my BPL of nicotine to lower figures than an actual cigarette.

I just don't think you can break the association with smoking and vaping is a basically a (very pleasurable) form of harm reduction. People who never smoked will never vape so its only market is former smokers.

What worries me a little about that daily express article a few days back was that the (disposable) e-cigs in question that they were promoting had adverts that suggested something first time non-smokers would "try" and is potentially very damning to your argument - as you said it is very pleasurable and nice way to unwind, espessially if it is not harmful to your body.

I think where the regulation probably needs to get to for e-juice is:

• Age Restrictions for sale of Concentrate Nicotine Solution and Regular E-juice - IMHO the 36mg limit is fine for most people.
• No internet sales of E-Juice without age verification systems in place (porn sites do it).
• Restrictions on the advertising - mulling this one over
• Enforcement of Ingredients lists and health standards for juice.
• Mandatory Childproof caps for All Juice.

As regards the flavoring aspect of E-Juice, there is no reason IF that is going to be an issue that flavoring could not be sold separate from the Nicotine Base.

However this should NOT be a cross board EU ruling, but should be our own government providing their own set of regulations.

However IMHO no laws should be passed or the subject touched upon until there has been multiple independent long-term studies done by third party labs/universities

tommy2bad

The thing is

However IMHO no laws should be passed or the subject touched upon until there has been multiple independent long-term studies done by third party labs/universities

is assume to be no product should be sold untill, by the regulators.
A particular attitude of no evidence of harm dose not equal evidence of safety. I cant for the life of me figure out how evidence of safety can be produced other than a lack of evidence of harm. Still the line 'we have no evidence that these products are safe' is trotted out again and again. What they seem to mean is evidence of effective quitting as in complete abstinence from all tobacco and nicotine.

Anyway good luck with the article and I hope it gets nationwide exposure.

was.deevey

What they seem to mean is evidence of effective quitting as in complete abstinence from all tobacco and nicotine.

Here's the thing I dont want to quit nicotine, I'm a perfectly happy nicotine addict through vaping. Just like I'm perfectly happy being a coffee addict. Moreso as its not inclusive of any carcinogens like tobacco. I think there's alot of smokers who feel the same way.

Smoking relaxes me from the stresses of daily life, just like coffee perks me up in the morning.

There is evidence of both Tobacco and Alcohol causing MAJOR bodily harm and yet they still sell it on every street corner with no volume restrictions with an age limit as its an Adult Orientated Product.

eeloe

jakdublin wrote: »

People who never smoked will never vape so its only market is former smokers.

That's not true, I know a couple of people who vape, who never smoked.....

tommy2bad

eeloe wrote: »

That's not true, I know a couple of people who vape, who never smoked.....

Indeed and now I am hearing of 0nic e shisha being sold to clubbers, I see that as direct marketing to non smokers.
http://shisharette.co.uk/

One of my concerns with the new reg is that by restricting the market to low or 0nic products they will create the very product the claim to be against- the gateway ecig.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well they already create a market for harder drugs by forcing stoners to buy their **** from the same people that sell e, coke and whatever else so that kind of stupidity isn't exactly uncommon for states and governments.

tommy2bad

What are the odds of some nic houses springing up around the country ?

jakdublin

tommy2bad wrote: »

What are the odds of some nic houses springing up around the country ?

Like a coffee shop that actively promotes vaping?

tommy2bad

Like grow houses, you know? some Asian immigrants some plants, some lights pot noodle and a kettle.
If the directive goes through, nic will be a black market produce and getting it will send us back to the guy with the smuggling connections. I ment 'back' figuratively, I never dealt with such gentlemen
But a coffee and vape shop is a good idea, perfect way to sell ecigs. I think someone has plans for one already.

Vaperus

anybody else know what hes talking about

DirtyBollox

Basically it'll be we all drop to 4mg or else we use connections to get invited to someones house where we can get some higher nic. or we all go to a cafe and ask for a "special" coffee and get the stuff there.

tommy2bad

https://www.google.ie/search?client=opera&q=grow+house+bust&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

but for nicotine

Celly Smunt

I'll be stocking up on pure Nic and selling it to you all at extortionate prices muhahaha.

nah,but im seriously thinking of stockpiling nicotine.

kiffy

pmcmahon wrote: »

im seriously thinking of stockpiling nicotine.

Not much point yet pc, it supposidly has a lifespan of 2 years, this directive might not come in for another 3 years meaning all you stockpile now will be fit for the bin before it comes in, if it does come in, in it's current wording then just before the deadline is the time to stockpile (you and everbody else so I hope production lines will be flat out to handle the demand)

Anyone know where I can buy a thousand 0.5 ml bottles

I met a fellow vaper the other day and got talking (well cigalike vaper and aware of the tobacco directive) and she is fine with the directive :eek: and she makes out that ecigs are not being banned for our use, nic products will still be available to everyone, all we have to do is buy the stuff from chemists when it's made a medicinal product. I can tell you is she had balls and a moustache instead of boobs and plucked eyebrows I'd have ****ing clocked it one, I'm all right Jack **** the rest of you :mad:.

grindle

kiffy wrote: »

...all we have to do is buy the stuff from chemists when it's made a medicinal product.

Braindead.
I'd love to know how much she thinks pharmaceutical companies would charge for the stuff. Not the same price whatever way you'd look at it,
€30 per 30ml bottle (if we're "allowed" bottled eliquid)?
€40?
€50+?
Hope she falls off the wagon, she sounds like a gowl.

kiffy

grindle wrote: »

Braindead.
I'd love to know how much she thinks pharmaceutical companies would charge for the stuff. Not the same price whatever way you'd look at it,
€30 per 30ml bottle (if we're "allowed" bottled eliquid)?
€40?
€50+?
Hope she falls off the wagon, she sounds like a gowl.

Only know the cow to see, never talked to her before or knew she was a cigalike user, she came up to me when she saw me smoking vaping on my eVic in the supermarket. I very seldom if ever get very angry (I'm a pussycat ), but I had to walk away from her or I would have let off a volley of comments and ripped her to shreds ****ing selfish cow. She ain't short of a few bob so whatever the new prices will be doesn't matter to her :mad:

tommy2bad

Actualy lads and lassies, if this directive were put to a vote it would pass with about 80% majority.
Most people think ecigs should be medicine or banned. They can't get their head around not quiting, to the vast majority it's a binary decision, you smoke or you quit, anything else is a way to quit which if continued is failing to quit.

jakdublin

Tommy is right. I was at a party last night with a lot of people I don't know too well and as I was driving and not drinking I was chain vaping and attracted the usual comments. I was telling people I was vaping eight months and they all wanted to know when I was going to stop. They just couldn't get their heads around the fact that I had no intention of stopping.

kiffy

tommy2bad wrote: »

Actualy lads and lassies, if this directive were put to a vote it would pass with about 80% majority.
Most people think ecigs should be medicine or banned. They can't get their head around not quiting, to the vast majority it's a binary decision, you smoke or you quit, anything else is a way to quit which if continued is failing to quit.

Well I'm as good as off nicotine 2mg and 4mg juices since new year’s eve, and my system has finally accepted the low, low level of nic in my body (hopefully off nic altogether in a few more weeks 0mg due from the states early next week) It wasn't the directive that made my mind up, I always had the intension of cutting back or quitting vaping when I started, but found I liked it more than I imagined I would, and if I was going to quit it would be the time and decision of my choosing not some bolloxes in Brussels.
And unlike the b**ch mentioned previously I do care about the rest of yee and will continue to fight and protest for the rights of people who don’t want to cut back or quit and fall back into the tobacco habit.

was.deevey

After a talk with my mum the other night a non-smoker its quite apparent one thing needs to be made clear.

NICOTINE IS NOT WHAT CAUSES CANCER ! Its the other crap inside cigarettes and tobacco.

If that message was heard it might have a chance.

jakdublin

Here's a sneak preview of the article if you want to download it from the link to the PDF below. The paper is distributed from tomorrow and the article will be published on the website at www.dublinpeople.com from midnight.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2499720/003WU2013-01-16E1.pdf

was.deevey

Let me be the first to say Good job!

eeloe

Cracking article Jak, great to see it not only from a users point of view, but also a vendor.

Imagine the number of people who set up a business selling e-cigs, I wonder will the EU be willing to allow them to sign on when their business are shut down?

Vaperus

Great article this is just the thing we need to bring it into the public view.
We could do with a few more of these

jakdublin

Thanks guys. And a big thanks to Graham for the interview, it's much appreciated. I'll be trying to get something similar into a couple of the Sundays next week but the daily nationals might pick up on it before that. They're always robbing our stories anyway

mewso

jakdublin wrote: »

Yes, that's true but there's no escaping the fact that the only people who vape are ex-smokers who began as a means to stop smoking. You can't really present it as anything else. I'm a dedicated vaper now for the past eight months and have no desire to stop so as I like feeling healthy and enjoy the taste and satisfaction, so in that context it's true to say I'm no longer vaping to stay off cigarettes.

However, I'm putting an addictive substance (that's lethal in large doses) into my system by a means that has little or no quality control. I'm at the mercy of a relatively new, unregulated market that I have to trust to make liquids that are safe. It's difficult to argue against regulation of a drug so no matter how we feel about it, this EU proposal is coming in some shape or form. I think the key is to argue for the type of regulation we want and the only proposal on that I've heard is self-regulation. I don't think any of us want to have to go to a pharmacy for our juice. It's up to vendors to come together as a body and draft a plan to regulate their industry and keep it out of the hands of the pharmacists.

I was away for the last couple of days but I just wanted to say that my point is not that I, as a vaper, don't consider it an excellent quitting method, but that I have stopped referring to it as such simply because of what has happened in the past. In the uk not so long ago there were threats of medicalising vaping and claims of e-cigs as a quitting aid were the sort of thing that played right into the hands of those wanted to medicalise them.

Yes it needs regulating but I've said before and I'll say it again that e-liquid falls under regulations for toxic liquids (child proof packaging, labelling, limits on strength etc.) as far as I know so there is something there already to a certain extent. This is in the UK and I'm assuming we have similar regulations here but I may be wrong.

Battles have been fought already on this in the uk particularly and it's worth reading up on them so you understand what is involved here re. regulation, terminology and so on. E-cigs are new in so many ways but I've just passed 3 years of it and a lot has happened during that time.