Ryanair in talks with Boeing for 200 aircraft

sully2010

So its back to the table with Boeing for Ryanair.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-in-talks-with-boeing-for-200-new-planes-3347205.html

Will they strike a deal this time? Are they going to order the max, the 800 for expansion to 120m pax or as fleet replacement for their older aircraft. The latter unlikely because Boeing wont be having it. If they park so many aircraft during winter what will they do with these new aircraft.

bluecode

Older aircraft are sold on before they get expensive to maintain. So the new aircraft will simply replace old in some cases but certainly there is room for expansion. I note they mention Israel. Hate to think what they'll make of the security standards in that country.

afatbollix

Why haven't they gone into the Indian market or south Asian market is beyond me. They are the two areas where the money is at the moment.

Katunga

does anybody think Ryanair could use 737-8 max for transatlantic.

Zonda999

Katunga wrote: »

does anybody think Ryanair could use 737-8 max for transatlantic.

No, I can't see it tbh, and I'm still not sure if the 738MAX or A320NEO will have proper T/A capability

As to whether Ryanair will ever have a go at T/A op's I'm not sure, but I'd be very sure they wouldn't be doing it with 737's, it would have to be larger jets like the A350 or B787. Think about it, where does Ryanair make its money at the minute, it in short hops across Europe, typically less than 1.5 Hours in length. That and leisure travel in slightly longer routes. Its in routes like this that Ryanairs quick turnaround capability and using remote airports strategy works very well indeed. That, and the fact they ahve no business class, just 189 seats fitted in every one of their 738's.

Trying to do this simply doesn't work with longer flights. Notamind longer flights where the competitors are using much bigger aircraft. this means the only advantage Ryanair might have in doing T/A op's is in using remote airports and fitting a few more seats on each plane. Another issue in the states is that the LCC's there don't use remote airports, they generally use the same large airports as the legacy carriers. Another problem is what ahppens when a plane goes tech. In Europe, Ryanair have 50 or so bases which means this is never too much of a problem. So, all in all, RYanair going transatlantic a fascinating to any aviation enthuiast but there are some issues with it ever happening

Back on topic, I expect this eventually to end up in a pretty large Ryanair order for a combination of 737-800 and 737-8MAX planes. Probably relatively few 737-800's by comparison. Ryanair would want the more efficient version. Undoubtedly as well, Ryanair would want some pretty versatile conditions as well, with them being able to convert 738 orders to 738MAX orders, and so on.. I've no doubt at this stage that Ryanair will order Boeing. Boeing wouldnt want to lose Ryanair and Ryanair know this. Pegasus, a few weeks back ordered the NEO despite being a large 737 buyer (40 aircraft or so) Ryanair by comparison is a humongous Boeing customer so Boeing will be looking to keep them..

LeftBase

bluecode wrote: »

I note they mention Israel. Hate to think what they'll make of the security standards in that country.

I was there a few weeks ago. They put a big Israeli sticker on my passport....there go my dreams of an Emirates FO seat for this passport!:cool:

Growler!!!

LeftBase wrote: »

I was there a few weeks ago. They put a big Israeli sticker on my passport....there go my dreams of an Emirates FO seat for this passport!:cool:

When you have enough hours for EK and get accepted, apply for a new passport. Old sea farers trick..

donkey balls

LeftBase wrote: »

I was there a few weeks ago. They put a big Israeli sticker on my passport....there go my dreams of an Emirates FO seat for this passport!:cool:

you could always lose your passport;);)

bluecode

You missed a trick there. You can ask the Israelis to attach the sticker on a separate piece of paper. They are fully aware of the problem and usually cooperate. Really someone should have tipped you off before you went there. So you'll have to get another passport if Emirates does give you call.

Preset No.3

Ah I hate to sound all old and stuff but you are all looking at Ryanair in the guise that it is in now. Up until 1995, they had a fleet that was all around the 20 year old bracket per airframe. At that stage they got their first 738, and began to expand.

If TA ops are to be considered, and running as a separate entity, they could easily start operations from the likes of Dublin, Shannon, Prestwick or the likes to somewhere like Teterboro Airport in New Jersey using high density 1 class Boeing 767's or Airbus A300's. All very possible especially with the Ryanair method of doing things.

Incidentally the distance from Dublin to New York is about 2800 miles. The expected range of the 737 max 9 with 180 pax is 3595 miles. IF you getting a flight to NY for 200 euro, would you be prepared to be squeezed in, in a single aisle flight for 7 hours?

Currently Edinburgh to Tenerife is about 5 hours flying time.

LeftBase

bluecode wrote: »

You missed a trick there. You can ask the Israelis to attach the sticker on a separate piece of paper. They are fully aware of the problem and usually cooperate. Really someone should have tipped you off before you went there. So you'll have to get another passport if Emirates does give you call.

I knew about it and had heard about it before, but wasn't really paying attention and felt registering disgust at immigration could lead to hefty rambo gentlemen nearby getting involved....

castie

Zonda999 wrote: »

No, I can't see it tbh, and I'm still not sure if the 738MAX or A320NEO will have proper T/A capability

As to whether Ryanair will ever have a go at T/A op's I'm not sure, but I'd be very sure they wouldn't be doing it with 737's, it would have to be larger jets like the A350 or B787. Think about it, where does Ryanair make its money at the minute, it in short hops across Europe, typically less than 1.5 Hours in length. That and leisure travel in slightly longer routes. Its in routes like this that Ryanairs quick turnaround capability and using remote airports strategy works very well indeed. That, and the fact they ahve no business class, just 189 seats fitted in every one of their 738's.

Trying to do this simply doesn't work with longer flights. Notamind longer flights where the competitors are using much bigger aircraft. this means the only advantage Ryanair might have in doing T/A op's is in using remote airports and fitting a few more seats on each plane. Another issue in the states is that the LCC's there don't use remote airports, they generally use the same large airports as the legacy carriers. Another problem is what ahppens when a plane goes tech. In Europe, Ryanair have 50 or so bases which means this is never too much of a problem. So, all in all, RYanair going transatlantic a fascinating to any aviation enthuiast but there are some issues with it ever happening

Scoot airlines are now doing flights from Singapore to Australia.
250 AUD return at some points. They don't have a huge fleet but are still managing to make a profit.

sully2010

afatbollix wrote: »

Why haven't they gone into the Indian market or south Asian market is beyond me. They are the two areas where the money is at the moment.

Yea I cant see why they haven't expanded outside of Europe yet apart from Morocco. I think they could make big inroads into India, seems to be a lot of badly run airlines there and a massive population to serve. There's obviously some tough barriers to enter those markets. Cant see them doing much in Asia, plenty of good low cost airlines already well established there but maybe they should monitor how fastjet gets on in Africa and expand a bit further there.

Bigcheeze

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Incidentally the distance from Dublin to New York is about 2800 miles. The expected range of the 737 max 9 with 180 pax is 3595 miles. IF you getting a flight to NY for 200 euro, would you be prepared to be squeezed in, in a single aisle flight for 7 hours?

Currently Edinburgh to Tenerife is about 5 hours flying time.

I think it's about 3,300 miles to NY so I'm guessing it's not feasible. Plenty of single-aisle 757's on transatlantic routes as it is. e.g. majority of United's operations to Europe. If you're in economy it really doesn't matter if it's single-aisle or wide body.

L1011

sully2010 wrote: »

Yea I cant see why they haven't expanded outside of Europe yet apart from Morocco. I think they could make big inroads into India, seems to be a lot of badly run airlines there and a massive population to serve. There's obviously some tough barriers to enter those markets. Cant see them doing much in Asia, plenty of good low cost airlines already well established there but maybe they should monitor how fastjet gets on in Africa and expand a bit further there.

Aviation in India is regulated with an iron fist. They even get to control which Indian airlines are allowed in alliances... so I don't think FR will be going there soon.

FR's business model really relies on open skies, hence little traffic outside the EU/EEA.

roundymac

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I think it's about 3,300 miles to NY so I'm guessing it's not feasible. Plenty of single-aisle 757's on transatlantic routes as it is. e.g. majority of United's operations to Europe. If you're in economy it really doesn't matter if it's single-aisle or wide body.

Delta's 757s have the same seat pitch as FR, 31', I'v done it, not the greatest, trick is get an isle seat, you can then relax with your legs half thrown in the isle.

Marcusm

Preset No.3 wrote: »

If TA ops are to be considered, and running as a separate entity, they could easily start operations from the likes of Dublin, Shannon, Prestwick or the likes to somewhere like Teterboro Airport in New Jersey using high density 1 class Boeing 767's or Airbus A300's. All very possible especially with the Ryanair method of doing things.
.

THey might be able to land but would the runways at Teterboro (1,833 and 2,100) not be too short for a 767 to take off fully laden?

Zonda999

castie wrote: »

Scoot airlines are now doing flights from Singapore to Australia.
250 AUD return at some points. They don't have a huge fleet but are still managing to make a profit.

Yeah, Scoot are an interesting one. They're doing it with Boeing 772's crammed with people. They are a subsidary of Singapore airlines though, who are a massive permium airline . And, lets say, it an aircraft goes tech, Singapore airlines offering plenty flights to Oz would probably be able to help. They are a partner of Tiger airways too which helps.. I like the idea and if a large carrier here in Europe were to offer something similar, it may work but the fares wouldnt be as cheap as MOL was claiming RyanAtlantic would be though..

Speaking of long haul no frills though, there seems to be more of an appetite for it in Asia. There was/is Air Asia X(Subs of Air Asia) which offered flights from Stansted to Kuala Lumpur on an A343 and fares went as low as £80 one way apparently. Air Asia X pulled out of the route but are still operating nearer to home apparently. Theres also Jetstar (Subs of Qantas)who are now using A332's but are very soon going to be using 787's (And returning their A332's to Qantas) and that may well work long haul no frills. Rumours of them starting to fly to Europe too which would be very interesting indeed.

Notice a trend though, all these three, Scoot, Jetstar and Air Asia X are all low cost subsidaries of very large airlines in their own region. This would not be the case with Ryanatlantic..

globemaster1986

Marcusm wrote: »

THey might be able to land but would the runways at Teterboro (1,833 and 2,100) not be too short for a 767 to take off fully laden?

Teterboro is a non runner. There is a weight limit of 100,000 lbs on aircraft operating into and out of KTEB and a ban on scheduled air services. This is to effectively make Teterboro non-viable to commercial airlines. At present the largest aircraft that could be accomodated, given that there are no airline operations, is the Embraer Lineage 1000 (but not at MTOW). A319CJ and BBJ are too heavy even under present rules.

http://www.teterboro-online.com/news/news04/teb1.shtml

LeftBase

globemaster1986 wrote: »

Teterboro is a non runner. There is a weight limit of 100,000 lbs on aircraft operating into and out of KTEB and a ban on scheduled air services. This is to effectively make Teterboro non-viable to commercial airlines. At present the largest aircraft that could be accomodated, given that there are no airline operations, is the Embraer Lineage 1000 (but not at MTOW). A319CJ and BBJ are too heavy even under present rules.

http://www.teterboro-online.com/news/news04/teb1.shtml

Ryanair have developed some of the airports around Europe that they use to suit their needs. I'm sure they could do something similar stateside.

Tenger

LeftBase wrote: »

Ryanair have developed some of the airports around Europe that they use to suit their needs. I'm sure they could do something similar stateside.

I can't see the US FAA allowing them to just move in.....

As stated above FR have benefited hugely from Open skies throughout the EU

lord lucan

I'd have thought Islip on Long Island would be more suited to Ryanairs operation. It's the home of Southwest in the Tri-State area and decent sized operation.

Lad Of Banter

just imagine O'Leary taking on the US Government

LeftBase

Lad Of Banter wrote: »

just imagine O'Leary taking on the US Government

Easy pickings for him. You would be dealing a little with the Federal Govt, but also a lot with State Govt and in this economy they will do what they can to boost the state's budget. Remember the US is not a country it is a confederation of states that largely Govern themselves and will cut each other's throats for revenues. MOL would be wet at the lips at the prospect of playing them off against each other! Imagine him playing the state govts of NY and NJ against each other for his "New York" route!

Preset No.3

I think you are all just being pedantic to the extreme. I just used 1 example as it was the only 1 I knew. Im sure there are plenty of airports from Boston down as far as Philadelphia who would only be too happy to operate TA ops for low cost carriers. Also, it doesnt have to be a 767. It could be a flying brick for all I care, all Im saying is that if anyone could do it, it would be a MOL venture. There are plenty of east coast airports and plenty of 2nd hand aircraft out there.

Tenger

A point to remember is that US immigration facilities are not available at all US airports. So any RyanAtlantic venture would not have the freedom of operation that FR ahve enjoyed in Europe over the past 10 years.

EG for New York, EWR and JFK are the designated international airports. International flights cannot divert into LGA as it cannot accept them. (Obviously LGA cannot handle some larger aircraft either,but that isn't the restriction)

This is a reason why congestion/weather related diversions from New York end up in Boston, Washington,Cleveland etc. (just counting 3 of my most recent diversion points)

IRLConor

Tenger wrote: »

A point to remember is that US immigration facilities are not available at all US airports. So any RyanAtlantic venture would not have the freedom of operation that FR ahve enjoyed in Europe over the past 10 years.

EG for New York, EWR and JFK are the designated international airports. International flights cannot divert into LGA as it cannot accept them. (Obviously LGA cannot handle some larger aircraft either,but that isn't the restriction)

This is a reason why congestion/weather related diversions from New York end up in Boston, Washington,Cleveland etc. (just counting 3 of my most recent diversion points)

Is this true even if the passengers were pre-cleared in Dublin or Shannon?

Tenger

IRLConor wrote: »

Is this true even if the passengers were pre-cleared in Dublin or Shannon?

In theory it would not affect these flights. Technically pre-cleared flights arrive as Domestic flights, hence EI being able to operate into/out of T5 in JFK from March.
However use of the pre-clearance adds cost/complexity to the airline's operation and the airline has to pretty much do whatever the TSA/CBP tell them to. (Can't see the current FR mgmt agreeing to these restrictions) Add to that, CBP in DUB operates at full capacity, SNN is being scaled back soon to give DUB more staff.

Although RyanAtlantic would probably add a "Mandatory Pre-clearance charge" or E15 to their fare

IRLConor

Tenger wrote: »

In theory it would not affect these flights. Technically pre-cleared flights arrive as Domestic flights, hence EI being able to operate into/out of T5 in JFK from March.
However use of the pre-clearance adds cost/complexity to the airline's operation and the airline has to pretty much do whatever the TSA/CBP tell them to. (Can't see the current FR mgmt agreeing to these restrictions) Add to that, CBP in DUB operates at full capacity, SNN is being scaled back soon to give DUB more staff.

Although RyanAtlantic would probably add a "Mandatory Pre-clearance charge" or E15 to their fare

I was kinda assuming that the hypothetical transatlantic Ryanair would bite the bullet on the hassle of the TSA/CBP in return for the ability to fly into somewhere like Islip*. I'd expect them to try and avoid places like JFK due to high costs.

* Assuming it could take whatever aircraft they'd use. Playing fast and loose with Wikipedia numbers it seems a 737-700ER would give them an option for DUB-ISP. That's probably completely taking the piss though.

afatbollix

But MOL himself says that you cant make profits from a full plane of economy on long haul, You need a first class and business class. You also need lounges and basicly nicer staff in the skys if your paying 2-5 grand to fly to New York.

I think its a no goer myself. Or maybe I'm just a snob when it comes to comfort.

Zonda999

Surely, as well the issue of applying the possibility of US CBP to the equation is sort of irrelevant because if this were to happen, it wouldn't be only from Dublin or whatever, it would be a synchronized launch from at least a few of Ryanairs major bases in Europe. Them being as well as Dublin, Stansted, Milan, Girona, Cherleroi, Hahn etc. None of these airports will be getting CBP anytime soon surely so thereby forcing Ryanair to fly into one of the mainstream airports because of that

I can;t seetthis happening at this point in all honesty. If it had happened, I believe it would have started with Ryanair ordering a large-ish number (About 30 or so) of 787's possibly (Probably sometime in the mid 2000's). These would have been configured in a no frills economy and a business class.

At this stage though, the only plausible way I could see this kicking off at all is with MOL buying some used aircraft and starting some sort of limited venture and seeing how it goes. Flying into the mainstream airports I guess. The 777-200ER seems fairly out of favour at the minute. He could squeeze over 400 into such an aircraft with a business class I suspect. Not saying this will happen at all but its probably the most plausible path I would think..

Milan Cobian

If ryanair want to go TA, they need biz class pax, as mol has said.
- Biz class paz want to go New York, not pretend ryanair New York a hundred miles away. This means serving either JFK or Newark, which would have no incentive to give discounted fees: no cost advantage over incumbents.
- Biz class pax want to fly at sensible times, so aircraft will be on the ground for periods of time to cater for this. Thus aircraft utilisation the same as the incumbents: no cost advantage
- Wide body aircraft would be required, Boeing and Airbus have full order books, so no incentive to deal with a demanding mol looking for discounts: no cost advantage over incumbents. And forget about pipedreams such as the Chinese building long-haul aircraft.
- Second hand aircraft: either v limited supply of newer aircraft (more expensive) or go with old aircraft (maintenance costs high): no cost advantage over incumbents.
- No feed from American end: major disadvantage.
- Feed from European end would require fundamental changes to ryanair operation: cost advantages eroded.

Undoubtedly the staff would be cheaper, but paying the captain €50k less equates to just over €1 per seat per flight over the course of the year. Hardly a killer advantage.

So where's the killer app for ryanair to go across the pond? The long-haul operations of most majors are much leaner now than the short-haul was when ryanair took them on over the last decade.

Keep dreaming I reckon... And even if it did happen, if you think there'll be discount over current fares, keep dreaming that too.

donvito99

And Southwest have yet to come across the pound...

L1011

Think Sun Country are the only US LCC that have really tried TA ops and even that's been stopped by now. 738s needing a fuel stop on the way :eek:

roundymac

MYOB wrote: »

Think Sun Country are the only US LCC that have really tried TA ops and even that's been stopped by now. 738s needing a fuel stop on the way :eek:

Ya, flew from Miniappolis/StPaul AFAIK. Stopped I think in Gander for fuel, flight to LGW took something like 11 hours.

Katunga

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-closing-in-on-major-boeing-order-3363070.html
sounds about right.

christy c

Katunga wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-closing-in-on-major-boeing-order-3363070.html
sounds about right.

Sounds a bit vague, I wonder who the "industry sources" are? Might happen but doubt it'll be within weeks

IngazZagni

christy c wrote: »

Sounds a bit vague, I wonder who the "industry sources" are? Might happen but doubt it'll be within weeks

I would very surprised to hear anything that soon either. More likely a few months away yet. One thing I do believe is that they will get a good deal. Not as good as the last deal but still quite good. There are a huge amount of orders for the 73, but most of them are for the Max. As the article suggests, there is a gap in production between current NG orders and when the Max comes online. A ~150 NG order would be great for Boeing to fill that slot. And who knows maybe they would be pushing FR to make the deal sooner to drift investor attention from the current 787 issues.

Katunga

I'd say the 787 problems will speed up the order a good bit. 2-3 months until a new order is my guess.

zone 1

And the Max tech problems if any would be well sorted buy the time MOL goes hunting for the next big plane order.

Irish Steve

there's a lot more to this than the right airframe. Things like ETOPS certification, crew duty times are just two of them, and for me, that was one of the reasons why MOL wanted Aer Lingus, they already have all that's needed for TA ops up and running.

That said, if FR want to do TA ops, the other option would be to use SNN as a hub for that, with MUCH larger airframes being used as a shuttle type service to an East Coast hub that also offers low cost internal flights. With preclearance at SNN, that avoids the immigration issues, and customs issues.

So, if a number of 800's are feeding pax into SNN, then something like a A380 is flying SNN to (say) BOS, with a slick turnround operation, there is just about potential for each airframe to do 3 flights a day, which is one more than just about any other airport in Europe can offer. In order to acheive that though, the pre clearance would have to be done in such a way that there would be no hassles with offloads of passengers bags, as that one hiccup can really screw up departure timings, been there, done it, and it's a PAIN, especially on a loose loaded aircraft, searching most of a 757 hold for a couple of bags takes a LONG time, and however much they might like to do a no bags scenario, that's not an option in the same way as for short haul.

The key to this would be absolutely slick and fast turnround, the other problem being that for long haul, it takes a LOT longer to physically pump that much fuel into the aircraft, so it all has to be very slick, and ground handling companies are not known for slick operations, a fast turnround on a 380 would need a lot of expensive ground equipment, it's not like a small set of steps for the back, a belt loader and one electric bag cart, long haul is a very different kettle of fish, though it would be a nice challenge if it was done right.

If you have a good crew on the ground, the right equipment, and a bit of luck, it's just possible to turn a 757-200 in an hour, but it's damned hard work for the ground crew, and any issues, like heavy bags, late bags or oversize items can cause problems.

For bin loaded aircraft like the 380, or for that matter anything larger than a 757, there is a whole raft of things like high loaders and a lot of bins, bin dollies etc that all have to be in place, 100% reliable, and available, and a fast turnround requires a much bigger ground crew, so the costs are a lot higher. Catering, toilet and water services and the like all have to be very slick as well.

Then there's the thought of the viability of carrying freight to and from the East Coast, as the aircraft will have capacity for it, and that can be as big an earner as passengers, sometimes a better earner. That can mean a different highloader, and different dollies for freight pallets.

That said, given the right conditions, who knows what might happen. SNN has the capacity to support a TA hub, the runway length to handle the largest aircraft, and the distance to the East Coast makes operations from there possible that could not happen from other places, given the will to make it work from all parties, it might happen.

Nonoperational

I have absolutely no idea of the practicalities but the idea of multiple 737s feeding an A380 from one hub is really cool!

donkey balls

Nonoperational wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea of the practicalities but the idea of multiple 737s feeding an A380 from one hub is really cool!

It works on the freighter side of things were the ULD's is trans loaded from feeder aircraft onto the larger wide bodies so there is no need to re gauge the ULD, With the likes of a B737/A320 feeding into just say a B747/A380 all the pax bags even the ones on a A320 which uses ULD would have to be reloaded into a different ULD.

qwertypop

LeftBase wrote: »

I was there a few weeks ago. They put a big Israeli sticker on my passport....there go my dreams of an Emirates FO seat for this passport!:cool:

What's all this about Israel and emeriates. I not getting it

bkehoe

qwertypop wrote: »

What's all this about Israel and emeriates. I not getting it

Go to Israel and let them stamp your passport and then you won't be admitted to most Arab states. Emirates is based in the UAE, so thus if one can't get admitted to the country they then can't work there. However most countries will issue citizens with 2 passports if they explain the Israeli issue.

sully2010

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-to-buy-200-boeings-in-18bn-order-29123271.html

It looks like Ryanair have bitten the bullet and are about put this big order in. If its an $18bn order that comes to $90m per aircraft. Surely this means part of the order will be the max with list prices of the 800 at $85m and the max at $100m

IngazZagni

sully2010 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-to-buy-200-boeings-in-18bn-order-29123271.html

It looks like Ryanair have bitten the bullet and are about put this big order in. If its an $18bn order that comes to $90m per aircraft. Surely this means part of the order will be the max with list prices of the 800 at $85m and the max at $100m

Media reports always quote the deal price based on list price. The actual figure for the deal is probably a lot lower. We may never know exactly how much Ryanair pay for these aircraft.

brandon_flowers

If the list price is $80m and Ryanair want 200 units then they will only pay about 70% of the list price.

Their previous order for 125 738's post 9/11 was discounted by between 40-50% depending on what you read.

sully2010

Fair enough, I was just thinking will part of the order be the Max or will they stick with the tried and tested 800. With the Max orders booked up its likely most will be the 800 but the fuel savings may be too much to resist to at least start introducing them into the fleet.

Then again the fuel savings will probably be offset by the higher list price, a different type in some aspects and pilot conversion training...oh wait sure the pilots will pay that themselves;)

IngazZagni

sully2010 wrote: »

Fair enough, I was just thinking will part of the order be the Max or will they stick with the tried and tested 800. With the Max orders booked up its likely most will be the 800 but the fuel savings may be too much to resist to at least start introducing them into the fleet.

Then again the fuel savings will probably be offset by the higher list price, a different type in some aspects and pilot conversion training...oh wait sure the pilots will pay that themselves;)

I would imagine this will be for the -800. That way they can start taking delivery of the aircraft quite soon. The higher list price of the max may mean there will be no savings to be made in the first few years. I guess part of the order could be options to convert to Max's at a later date

There won't be any conversion training for the Max. It's the exact same plane, same old dated design, just with more efficient components powering it.

Amirani

Any indication what Ryanair will be doing with these new aircraft? A host of new bases or more capacity at existing bases?