Public nudity

U_Fig

Some back story..

For 2013 me and a mate of mine decided that we would set out to do something each month that neither of us had done previously and where possible compete against a person who is experienced in the field to see how well we can do. After a few beers in my mates house recently we agreed that in January we should try our hand at debating against my mates parents who are avid members of the debating club locally

Our topic is on public nudity in Ireland..and we are deemed pro public nudity.

Ive only started researching the topic but as far as I can see its illegal to be naked in a public place in Ireland.. This kinda puzzles me as surely it's not illegal to act naturally and being naked is as natural as it gets right? Can someone confirm it is illegal.. And what laws it violates I need to read up on them to help with the argument..

What's your opinions on the matter?

Procrastastudy

U_Fig wrote: »

Some back story..

For 2013 me and a mate of mine decided that we would set out to do something each month that neither of us had done previously and where possible compete against a person who is experienced in the field to see how well we can do. After a few beers in my mates house recently we agreed that in January we should try our hand at debating against my mates parents who are avid members of the debating club locally

Our topic is on public nudity in Ireland..and we are deemed pro public nudity.

Ive only started researching the topic but as far as I can see its illegal to be naked in a public place in Ireland.. This kinda puzzles me as surely it's not illegal to act naturally and being naked is as natural as it gets right? Can someone confirm it is illegal.. And what laws it violates I need to read up on them to help with the argument..

What's your opinions on the matter?

Sounds like a mass debate to me.

I'll get my coat.

Have you tried the Criminal Law (Public Order) Act 1994?
There might also be something in the vagrancy acts.

I'm not saying this is were you'll find your answers btw - just some suggestions off the top of my head.

Some debating tips;

Prep is KEY - know what you are going to say and how you are going to say it.
Engage with the debate - make sure you can adjust your speech to include rebuttal (snigger)
If the speech is the standard 7 minutes 2 points of information - any shorter take 1

Hope you enjoy it.

JustAddWater

ask this guy

28064212

U_Fig wrote: »

This kinda puzzles me as surely it's not illegal to act naturally and being naked is as natural as it gets right?

It's also "natural" to beat the crap out of any male that attempts to interact with your woman. Doesn't make it legal.

Procrastastudy

Oh there has to be some good points you can add in about Denmark and the rules there. Basically all you can do is politely ask people to stop having sex on the park benches in broad day light.

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

It's also "natural" to beat the crap out of any male that attempts to interact with your woman. Doesn't make it legal.

Natural to who?

Procrastastudy

28064212 wrote: »

It's also "natural" to beat the crap out of any male that attempts to interact with your woman. Doesn't make it legal.

What was he doing in your kitchen in the first place? :rolleyes:

JustAddWater

JustAddWater wrote: »

ask this guy

Wrong country :P

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

Natural to who?

That's pretty much my point. "Natural" is regularly thrown out to justify any behaviour which is primitive or animalistic. "Natural" does not mean something is automatically good or desirable

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

That's pretty much my point. "Natural" is regularly thrown out to justify any behaviour which is primitive or animalistic. "Natural" does not mean something is automatically good or desirable

I don't think base instinct can really be compared to being naked. The shame associated with nudity is really only a byproduct of religious oppression and the view that sex is dirty. It harms nobody in anyway.

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't think base instinct can really be compared to being naked.

It can when you use what's "natural" as a justification

MagicSean wrote: »

The shame associated with nudity is really only a byproduct of religious oppression and the view that sex is dirty. It harms nobody in anyway.

I think that's over-simplified (although religious oppression has undoubtedly played a huge part).

Regardless, my point was not that nudity should be illegal. But if the OP is getting involved in a debate about it, the fact that it's "natural" is a terrible line of argument.

Nolimits

28064212 wrote: »

It's also "natural" to beat the crap out of any male that attempts to interact with your woman. Doesn't make it legal.

It's a bit different though, being naked doesn't harm anybody and it truly is us in our most natural form. I'm completely baffled as to why there is a law against this.

Also it's quite sexist that women can't walk around topless but men can
Why aren't feminist groups protesting that :mad:

drunkmonkey

It's legal in Cork, Galway and Dublin. Either that or the law turns a blind eye to it.

solas111

U_Fig wrote: »

Some back story..


Can someone confirm it is illegal.. And what laws it violates I need to read up on them to help with the argument..

What's your opinions on the matter?

Fair play to you and your mate for thinking up something different – I’m already looking forward to hearing about how it works out.

As for the legal side, I suspect that there is some old law that covers just about anything you decide to do and if some policeman wants to do you, he will find a way.

If nothing else can be found they will probably arrest you under Section 30 of The Offences Against The State Act. It’s about being in procession of a lethal weapon without a licence.

Kevin3

Some possible offences are:

Section 18 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1935 as amended by Section 18 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990

18.—Every person who shall commit, at or near and in sight of any place along which the public habitually pass as of right or by permission, any act in such a way as to offend modesty or cause scandal or injure the morals of the community shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall on summary conviction thereof be liable to a class D fine (not exceeding €1000) or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six month or both.

Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824:

Every person wilfully, openly, lewdly, and obscenely exposing his person in any street, road, or public highway, or in the view thereon, or in any place of public resort, with intent to insult any female, shall be deemed a rogue and a vagabond and shall be guilty of an offence - penalty: Three months imprisonment.

Section 5 of the Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Amendment Act, 1871

S.5-Any person who within the Dublin Metropolitan District in any throughfare or public place shall wilfully and indecently expose his person or commit any act contrary to public decency shall be guilty of an offence - penalty class D fine (not exceeding €1000) and/or two month imprisonment

Also Sections 5 and 6 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994
Indecency is also an offence under common law.

U_Fig

Thanks for the replies lads I've been getting advice from seasoned debaters on stuff think we might actually have a chance in this..

I'll look into all the above at some stage off to cork for the weekend but after that debate is set for 23rd so hopefully I'll have time to make up my arguments by then

Peregrinus

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't think base instinct can really be compared to being naked. The shame associated with nudity is really only a byproduct of religious oppression and the view that sex is dirty. It harms nobody in anyway.

This isn't generally true. It may be true in our culture, but that's because we're particularly obsessed with sex. In other cultures (and to some extent in our culture) nudity has other connotations.

Clothes are often used to signal social and economic status -think of uniforms, think of the conspicuous display of brands, think of work clothing, think of clothing indicating affinity with a particular group, think of clothing signalling gender or gender identity. To be without clothing is therefore either to conceal your social status or to reject it, and that's a subversive act. You'll often find nudists who defend nudism as a challenge to restrictive social mores, and they are thinking more of this than of sex.

In other cultures, to be without clothing is to be vulnerable, weak. (You try living in a semi-desert with no sun or wind protection, and see how long your survive!) To be without clothing is therefore to embrace weakness and reject power, which is a very countercultural statement.

In short, nakedness makes us uncomfortable for a variety of reasons, not all of which have to do with sex. In fact, it mostly has nothing to do with sex - most people exposed to casual nudism do not find it remotely sexually arousing, but many of them are still disturbed by it.

So it seems to me that you can defend nudity on the same basis that you can defend free speech and the right of dissent - a healthy society should not be afraid to have its conventions and assumptions challenged, and in fact benefits from this.

WhatNowForUs?

U_Fig wrote: »

Some back story..

For 2013 me and a mate of mine decided that we would set out to do something each month that neither of us had done previously and where possible compete against a person who is experienced in the field to see how well we can do. After a few beers in my mates house recently we agreed that in January we should try our hand at debating against my mates parents who are avid members of the debating club locally

Our topic is on public nudity in Ireland..and we are deemed pro public nudity.

Ive only started researching the topic but as far as I can see its illegal to be naked in a public place in Ireland.. This kinda puzzles me as surely it's not illegal to act naturally and being naked is as natural as it gets right? Can someone confirm it is illegal.. And what laws it violates I need to read up on them to help with the argument..

What's your opinions on the matter?

That is so cool. Thanks. What else do you have in mind for the coming year.

U_Fig

We're not too sure it'll be decided at a later stage over the course of the year... One thing I wanna do is skydiving one month and wanna do a frozen lake jump.. I've a mate from Russia who's done them says they're awful but rewarding when ya finish.. Might take a trip for that somewhere cold

Any suggestions on things to do?

My mate wants to cycle from Dublin to cork to galway and back.. Might do that depending on how my injuries heal..

Might try a marathon also again depending on injuries healing

Finnbar01

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't think base instinct can really be compared to being naked. The shame associated with nudity is really only a byproduct of religious oppression and the view that sex is dirty. It harms nobody in anyway.

So you wouldn't mind the mother in law calling over naked then?