Most Underrated Irish athlete of all time

ecoli

Given that we are coming into the indoor track season and to celebrate the fact that we actually have a top quality indoor track (permanent one as opposed to The Odyssey) thought its about time to drum up a bit of interest in track and field so the idea was shamelessly stolen from another forum.

We all are well versed with the Sonia, Gillian O Sullivan, Eileen O Keefe, Derval, Eamon Coghlan, John Treacy, Cragg etc but who are the unsung heros of Irish athletics and who do you feel is the most underrated Irish athlete of all time

Oregano_State

It's definitely me.

rom

ecoli wrote: »

Given that we are coming into the indoor track season and to celebrate the fact that we actually have a top quality indoor track (permanent one as opposed to The Odyssey) thought its about time to drum up a bit of interest in track and field so the idea was shamelessly stolen from another forum.

We all are well versed with the Sonia, Gillian O Sullivan, Eileen O Keefe, Derval, Eamon Coghlan, John Treacy, Cragg etc but who are the unsung heros of Irish athletics and who do you feel is the most underrated Irish athlete of all time

Mark Carroll

TFBubendorfer

Enduro.

He can set multiple Irish records and yet virtually nobody in the media would have a clue who he is.

NiallG4

If you went to the start line of the next BHAA race and listed the names above, they would be recognised but would James Nolan or David Mathews.

Rogue Runner

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Enduro.

He can set multiple Irish records and yet virtually nobody in the media would have a clue who he is.

The same can be said for most leading ultra runners. It's only in the past few years that more have become aware of the likes of Jornet, Krupicka, Durek et al.

Alas, the ultra community will always be seen as a fringe element in the running world.

ThePiedPiper

For me, Catriona McKiernan is seriously underrated. Her 4 consecutive silver medals at world cross-country was pretty incredible. I think there was some European successes in there too. However, it was her very short marathon career that was really incredible. I'm not sure how many marathons in total she ran, but her debut was the fastest ever in winning in Berlin. She followed that up with victories in Amsterdam and London. She didn't have the track career that Sonia had, but her achievements were equally impressive.

Rogue Runner

RunForestRun wrote: »

For me, Catriona McKiernan is seriously underrated. Her 4 consecutive silver medals at world cross-country was pretty incredible. I think there was some European successes in there too. However, it was her very short marathon career that was really incredible. I'm not sure how many marathons in total she ran, but her debut was the fastest ever in winning in Berlin. She followed that up with victories in Amsterdam and London. She didn't have the track career that Sonia had, but her achievements were equally impressive.

Agreed

TRR

Funny just had this conversation with a friend at the weekend. For me Mark Carroll is an obvious candidate. His range of ability was amazing and his times are all world class. However his major flaw was he only ever won a European outdoor bronze (I sound like I have a bag dull of them ). His talent deserved multiple European golds (indoor and outdoor).

However IMO even though both Sonia O'Sullivan and Catherina McKiernan are both house hold names I don't think they got any way near the kudos and praise they deserved. Look at both their medal hauls and times run and the mind boggles.

lynchieboy

John Lenehin

Pisco Sour

Mark Carroll would be the obvious choice. He never got the respect he deserved among the general media. Had he been around 10 years earlier he would be seen as an Irish sporting icon.

However, Carroll has a fair cult following around here. For that reason I would have to go with Gillian O'Sullivan. Never has a major Irish sporting achievement been more forgotten to the public, (and even to many actual athletics people) than hers. It's weird how Olive Loughnane got more media attention than Gillian despite the achievements being the exact same.

DrPatrickBarry

lynchieboy wrote: »

John Lenehin

I second that,
I must admit I never heard of him before 6 months ago. And even my dad who is a keen sports fan has never heard of him.

Peterx

http://www.imra.ie/photos/view/id/10583/

legend.

RoyMcC

Not so much underrated but forgotten - Martin Sheridan and Bertie Messitt.

Enduro

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Enduro.

He can set multiple Irish records and yet virtually nobody in the media would have a clue who he is.

The second bit is true anyway! I would nominate Tony Mangan myself from the ultrarunning community... multiple Irish records, two world records and currently doing something that only a handful of people in the world have achieved (running around the world).

Rogue Runner wrote: »

The same can be said for most leading ultra runners. It's only in the past few years that more have become aware of the likes of Jornet, Krupicka, Durek et al.

Alas, the ultra community will always be seen as a fringe element in the running world.

It's becoming more and more mainstream as time goes on though. Participation numbers are certainly improving all the time, and the popularity of books like Born to Run have also helped a lot.

DrPatrickBarry

Media and sport generally. The fuss last year about no women on the BBC sports awards. All of the women suggested had valid claims but were in sports that have little spectator/media following - Triathlon, Open Water swimming, etc.

who has heard of Joss Naylor the greatest fellrunner ever? I had not before reading "Feet in the Clouds"

endswell

Peterx wrote: »

http://www.imra.ie/photos/view/id/10583/

legend.

gotta love that vest in 2nd

Peterx

endswell wrote: »

gotta love that vest in 2nd

in fairness John Brooks would be right up there on a list like this were he not Scottish

DrPatrickBarry

Has anybody seen those videos on the web about John Lenihan? He has a serious habit of looking over his shoulder all the time - even when the second place runner is nowhere near him, which in John's case was nearly all the time.

huskerdu

RunForestRun wrote: »

For me, Catriona McKiernan is seriously underrated. Her 4 consecutive silver medals at world cross-country was pretty incredible. I think there was some European successes in there too. However, it was her very short marathon career that was really incredible. I'm not sure how many marathons in total she ran, but her debut was the fastest ever in winning in Berlin. She followed that up with victories in Amsterdam and London. She didn't have the track career that Sonia had, but her achievements were equally impressive.

I met her once and she said that she only ever ran four marathons. Makes it more impressive that she won three of them.

rom

huskerdu wrote: »

I met her once and she said that she only ever ran four marathons. Makes it more impressive that she won three of them.

I remember telling her how I got on in DCM 2011 and the feeble excuses like my first daughter being born 2 weeks, being sick etc before the race. She was like you had the training done,no excuses. She was 100% right

pre

Abhainn

Run and Jump

Marcus O'Sullivan and Frank O'Mara - multiple world championship winners on the boards, but their lack of success outdoors seems to outweigh their great success indoors. Perhaps in the shadow of Treacy and Coghlan they seemed like underachievers, or maybe indoor running is not appreciated as much outside the States.

pavement plodder

New poster to this forum. Found this too interesting to sit out. Unfortunately for the sport most Irish athletes are underrated. Even Sonia, (IMO the greatest we have produced across the range of sports), lacks the deserved recognition for her achievements.

For me the Most underrated Irish athlete would be Marcus O Sullivan.

I pick him because he rarely gets mentioned in conversation, which is surprising considering his CV.

Competed in 4 Olympics. Made 1500 final in 88'.
101 Sub 4 min miles - 3rd most ever. Only behind Scott and Walker.
3 world indoor titles. Impressive PB's at 800m, 1500m and mile.

Another to consider is Ray Flynn. Only sub 3.50 Irish miler.

Pisco Sour

pavement plodder wrote: »

Another to consider is Ray Flynn. Only sub 3.50 Irish miler.

Only sub 3:50 outdoors. Coghlan managed this indoors which is more impressive.

MrCreosote

Sonia O'Sullivan is the most underrated I reckon. I know she's well renowned, but the level of recognition isn't anywhere near the level deserved by her status as one of the greatest distance runners of all time. Certainly our best international sportsperson (Keano as a close second). To a lot of people she's still just "Sonia"- said with a little patronising shake of the head.

She remained competitive even in the era when EPO use was rampant and undetectable, and was cheated out of many more medals than she actually won.

seanmacc

Run and Jump wrote: »

Marcus O'Sullivan and Frank O'Mara - multiple world championship winners on the boards, but their lack of success outdoors seems to outweigh their great success indoors. Perhaps in the shadow of Treacy and Coghlan they seemed like underachievers, or maybe indoor running is not appreciated as much outside the States.

Marcus O'Sullivan and Frank O'Mara were employed to great effect on the Grand Prix circut in the early and mid ninties as pace makers for 1500m, 3000m and 5000m. I remember seeing the two of them running well under world record splits and getting excited as a kid only to see them drop out on the second last lap.

Rhys Essien

I dont remember Frank O'Mara and Marcus O'Sullivan ever being underrated.

cack_handed

MrCreosote wrote: »

Sonia O'Sullivan is the most underrated I reckon. I know she's well renowned, but the level of recognition isn't anywhere near the level deserved by her status as one of the greatest distance runners of all time. Certainly our best international sportsperson (Keano as a close second). To a lot of people she's still just "Sonia"- said with a little patronising shake of the head.

She remained competitive even in the era when EPO use was rampant and undetectable, and was cheated out of many more medals than she actually won.

Can't agree with that at all. My memory of O'Sullivan's running career is that there was always huge coverage anytime she ran in a major competition and her status as arguably Ireland's greatest ever athlete was always accorded due recognition. Compared to the coverage given Irish athletics now, that era was serviced pretty well, I dont think you can argue that O'Sullivan wasn't recognised adequately or in some way underrated.
I think that argument would have more traction in relation to Derval O'Rourke who has blazed a trail for her country in a discipline that has, afaik, absolutely no Irish tradition. It is her misfortune that athletics has pretty much dropped off the Irish media map now and I don't believe the true breadth of her achievements have yet been fully realised. A little bit the same with Gillick and to a lesser extent Hession. They won't be appreciated until they are gone in my opinion.

Krusty_Clown

Wouldn't it be great to see a series of home-produced documentaries on the most under-rated or under-publicized Irish athletes? The likes of Mark Carroll, Catriona McKiernan, John Lenehin, Marcus O'Sullivan etc. I would imagine it would be inexpensive to produce (trawling archives, and interviews with the respective athletes) and would have a pretty good viewership figures, if sufficiently advertised.

Must give this a listen/watch: John Lenihan - My Memories.

seanmacc

I'd go with Jason Smyth.

Imagine running 100m in 10:46 and not being able to dip at the line or know where your competitors are his achievements are inspirational. Plus he's a far nicer character than that Oscar Pistorious fella.

rom

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Wouldn't it be great to see a series of home-produced documentaries on the most under-rated or under-publicized Irish athletes? The likes of Mark Carroll, Catriona McKiernan, John Lenehin, Marcus O'Sullivan etc. I would imagine it would be inexpensive to produce (trawling archives, and interviews with the respective athletes) and would have a pretty good viewership figures, if sufficiently advertised.

Must give this a listen/watch: John Lenihan - My Memories.

In the age of the internet it is hard to realize that I did look very hard to find a video of Mark Carroll 3000 meters Irish record online but to no avail. It was only 1999 but we only got youtube in 2005 http://www.leevale.org/2008/mark-carroll/ Probably the best thing to do would be contact him directly and ask him if he has or knows of anyone of the footage as people would like to see it. Was listening to the interview and they saying what a great runner he was to represent Kerry constantly like Kerry was the only place in the world because he represented Ireland but not Kerry. Was strange until I saw the link above.

Pisco Sour

Maybe in Ireland he was, but Marcus O'Sullivan was/is far from underrated in the USA. Himself and Coghlan were THE men at a time when the Wannamaker Mile was as much theatre as it was sport.

DrPatrickBarry

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Maybe in Ireland he was, but Marcus O'Sullivan was/is far from underrated in the USA. Himself and Coghlan were THE men at a time when the Wannamaker Mile was as much theatre as it was sport.

Ya brings back memories "Chairman of the Boards"

fishboy1974

David Gillick. Runnig sub 45 seconds should not be dismissed in any way yet how many in the public would truly be aware of what an achievement this is. Hopefully he will get back to that type of form this year.

shels4ever

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Only sub 3:50 outdoors. Coghlan managed this indoors which is more impressive.

Were they really miles indoors

ChickenTikka

Should the thread be renamed to "Who was the most underrated Irish runner in the last 15 or 20 years" ?

What about the Leahy brothers at the turn of the last century:-

http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/sports%20people%20055.pdf

hinault

Pat O'Callaghan and Bob Tisdall.

Both reigning Olympic gold medallists in their respective sports denied the opportunity to defend their titles, because of politics, in Berlin in 1936.

Their ability underestimated as a result

RoyMcC

ChickenTikka wrote: »

Should the thread be renamed to "Who was the most underrated Irish runner in the last 15 or 20 years" ?

What about the Leahy brothers at the turn of the last century:-

http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/sports%20people%20055.pdf

Great article Chicken! A whole family among the world's best at a single event.

It's amazing how high jump has improved. From those 6ft jumpers (considered the benchmark of excellence 100 years ago) we moved to 7ft in 1956 and 8ft in 1993, a 33% improvement at the top level. Has any other event improved to such an extent?

Mind, no one has bettered the WR now for 20 years.

Krusty_Clown

RoyMcC wrote: »

Great article Chicken! A whole family among the world's best at a single event.

It's amazing how high jump has improved. From those 6ft jumpers (considered the benchmark of excellence 100 years ago) we moved to 7ft in 1956 and 8ft in 1993, a 33% improvement at the top level. Has any other event improved to such an extent?

Mind, no one has bettered the WR now for 20 years.

It was indeed a very interesting article. An enjoyable read.

Men's marathon times have improved by 30% over a slightly shorter period (1908 - present day). Women's times have improved by 38%, but that's not really a fair fight, as the distance has realistically only been contested since the 1970s.

Speedtrap

Catriona McKiernan female
Ciaran McDonagh male

RandyMann

David Mathews - 800m Irish Record Holder

Pisco Sour

Another is Susan Smith. 7th at the worlds, one place away from the Olympic final in Atlanta, PB of 54.3. Our first truly world class sprinter of the modern age, paving the way for the success of derval, hesh and gillick. Yet how many in the public, or even here are aware of her achievements?

YFlyer

John Downes

omicron

seanmacc wrote: »

I'd go with Jason Smyth.

Imagine running 100m in 10:46 and not being able to dip at the line or know where your competitors are his achievements are inspirational. Plus he's a far nicer character than that Oscar Pistorious fella.

Try 10.22!

MrCreosote

ChickenTikka wrote: »

Should the thread be renamed to "Who was the most underrated Irish runner in the last 15 or 20 years" ?

Like it or not, it's only the last 20 years that athletics has been a truly open global sport, rather than a stage for bored British Empire toffs, or a dope-heavy Cold War proxy.

Being competitive on a global stage is way more impressive these days.

ultrapercy

MrCreosote wrote: »

Like it or not, it's only the last 20 years that athletics has been a truly open global sport, rather than a stage for bored British Empire toffs, or a dope-heavy Cold War proxy.

Being competitive on a global stage is way more impressive these days.

Oh yea? When did you decide this? Thanks for letting us know anyway.

RoyMcC

MrCreosote wrote: »

Like it or not, it's only the last 20 years that athletics has been a truly open global sport, rather than a stage for bored British Empire toffs, or a dope-heavy Cold War proxy.

Being competitive on a global stage is way more impressive these days.

That's a valid point Mr C, but to the extent that certain Irish athletes were beating whatever was in front of them in the 'old days' then you could hardly ask for more.

Anyway the thread has become confused. Surely we ought to be talking about athletes that never got the recognition they deserved rather than the household names that are being trotted out - mainly runners. Field eventers are routinely ignored. Did Terry McHugh ever get much recognition despite winning 21 consecutive national titles and being a serial Olympic qualifier?

Krusty_Clown

RoyMcC wrote: »

...being a serial Olympic qualifier?

Both summer and winter Olympics. :eek:

Tombo2001

fishboy1974 wrote: »

David Gillick. Runnig sub 45 seconds should not be dismissed in any way yet how many in the public would truly be aware of what an achievement this is. Hopefully he will get back to that type of form this year.

I would agree with this. He is the only Irish athlete in my memory to have been a real contender at a world championships in a pure sprinting event. He didnt medal, but going into the final he was a genuine medal contender, which was fantastic; and as far as I remember was fastest european.

RoyMcC

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I would agree with this. He is the only Irish athlete in my memory to have been a real contender at a world championships in a pure sprinting event. He didnt medal, but going into the final he was a genuine medal contender, which was fantastic; and as far as I remember was fastest european.

But no one has under-rated Gillick (a superb athlete) which is/was the point of this thread.