World War Z

Brown Bomber

Zombie fiction wouldn't normally be my thing tbh but somebody gave me a copy for Christmas and I've been home bored and sick at home so I thought I'd give it read last night. I'd never heard of the book or the author before so I was a little surprised to find the book is rife with Zionist/war propaganda.

The narrative develops through a series of interviews carried out by the narrator, who is working for the UN with witnesses of "World War Z". These interviews take him all over the world.

One of the first interviewees is an Israeli Mossad agent who is driven by the ever-present threats to Israels existence is the first to figure out the zombie threat to the world.

He informs his government who try to inform the world through the UN, but people don't take them seriously - and then all pay the destructive price. His first line is "WHY didn't they believe us!?"

I think we can see obvious parallells with this:

The next interviewee is a former Palestinian refugee, now living in the "middle easts most affluent city", Bethelehem, Palestine. His family wasn't ethnically cleansed from his home by Israeli forces of course - they left by choice! The heroic government of Israel has withdrawn from the occupied territories - even in the knowledge that it would lead to an inevitable civil war with the Haredim.

Despite this withdrawal the Palestinian interviewee had still wanted to see Jews driven into the sea. He was a wannabe terrorist and anti-semite with violent tendencies. Despite this, he admits to not having known anything about Jews.

Meanwhile the heroic Israeli government has offered safety to all Palestinians and Jews around the world within the confines of it's apartheid wall.

The next interviewee is a former member of Iran's Revolutionary Guard who describes the escalation between the two Muslim nations (of course) that destroyed each other with nuclear weapons. Iran (of course) and Pakistan.

After that there was an intervieẃ with an American solider whose account illustrates the dangers of not spending enough on the military. And that is as far as I got.

===============================================================

I'm interested if anyone else has read it and what did they think?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

man
i'd love to know what you would have made of the redekker plan

Canis Lupus

So are we discussing if zombies are real or not?

Jonny7

I'll just leave this clue here

humanji

It's hardly surprising that someone who would consider themselves a Zionist would write favorably about Israel. It's not really a conspiracy, is it?

Brown Bomber

humanji wrote: »

It's hardly surprising that someone who would consider themselves a Zionist would write favorably about Israel. It's not really a conspiracy, is it?

I don't know anything about the author but I do know that Josef Goebbels was charged by Hitler to produce propaganda that fused politics, art, media, and literarature etc and it was highly succesful. Goebbels was obviously and openly Nazi but that doesn't make his propaganda any less of an attempt to influence minds by stealth or any less of a conspiracy.

Brown Bomber

Canis Lupus wrote: »

So are we discussing if zombies are real or not?

Nope.

Canis Lupus

Humanji already explained why it would be pro Israeli, I've little to add but it's supposed to be a good zombie book. It's on my to read list. Maybe just give it a chance based on that.

Tzar Chasm

it is a good book tho, I would admit that there does seem to be a bit of a political bias towards the 'zionist narrative' the bits about israel irked me slightly when they portrayed the apartheid wall as the thing that save them, and the rest of the political stereotypes didn't help much, paranoid drunken Russians armed to the teeth and installing a czar (well that last bit does have a little appeal the chinese being a mix of supesrsisious peasants and greedy developers with no regard for the environment, iran and pakistan going fundementalist and nuking each other, its been a while since I read it but they are the ones I remember off and.

his other book
'the zombie survival guide' would probably be more the op's style, as it do sent get into politics, its just a field manual for the zompocalypse. but it is a great read

one of the reviewers summed it up well when he said, funny book, well written, but by the third chapter you will find yourself buying a machette 'just in case'

hooradiation

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Zombie fiction wouldn't normally be my thing tbh but somebody gave me a copy for Christmas and I've been home bored and sick at home so I thought I'd give it read last night. I'd never heard of the book or the author before so I was a little surprised to find the book is rife with Zionist/war propaganda.

The narrative develops through a series of interviews carried out by the narrator, who is working for the UN with witnesses of "World War Z". These interviews take him all over the world.

One of the first interviewees is an Israeli Mossad agent who is driven by the ever-present threats to Israels existence is the first to figure out the zombie threat to the world.

He informs his government who try to inform the world through the UN, but people don't take them seriously - and then all pay the destructive price. His first line is "WHY didn't they believe us!?"

I think we can see obvious parallells with this:

The next interviewee is a former Palestinian refugee, now living in the "middle easts most affluent city", Bethelehem, Palestine. His family wasn't ethnically cleansed from his home by Israeli forces of course - they left by choice! The heroic government of Israel has withdrawn from the occupied territories - even in the knowledge that it would lead to an inevitable civil war with the Haredim.

Despite this withdrawal the Palestinian interviewee had still wanted to see Jews driven into the sea. He was a wannabe terrorist and anti-semite with violent tendencies. Despite this, he admits to not having known anything about Jews.

Meanwhile the heroic Israeli government has offered safety to all Palestinians and Jews around the world within the confines of it's apartheid wall.

The next interviewee is a former member of Iran's Revolutionary Guard who describes the escalation between the two Muslim nations (of course) that destroyed each other with nuclear weapons. Iran (of course) and Pakistan.

After that there was an intervieẃ with an American solider whose account illustrates the dangers of not spending enough on the military. And that is as far as I got.

===============================================================

I'm interested if anyone else has read it and what did they think?

Oh christ. Only here could a harmless book about zombies be twisted into "dem zionists!", but I guess when you've only got a hammer everything looks like a nail.

First -The whole "Unheeded warning" is a very common trope in, well, just about everything. If people paid attention to the lone voice in the bloody wilderness absolutely no story would ever go anywhere.
Alien wouldn't gotten very far if they'd heeded the warning beacon on LV426 and just gone on their merry way, would it?

As for the Iran/Pakistan thing, the point isn't what "oh those wacky muslims killing each other" it is explicitly about how in the world of zombie fiction that people are far more dangerous than the undead. If you recall the whole situation escalates from refugees flooding from Pakistan to Iran and a quick escalation from a border skirmish to full scale war.
They didn't wipe eachother out because they're muslims, they wiped each other out because of zombie tropes 101 - man is the real monster.

And the interview with the US marine isn't about "spend more on the military" it was how the foremost military power in the world was poorly equipped to fight the kind of battle they had on their hands. The character you're referring to points out that
A] the American people had no desire to fight after several intractable conflicts abroad, which is fairly accurate
B] The tactics employed were poorly suited to the task at hand (the battle of yonkers)
C] They had spent loads of money on the military, the battle of yonkers was explicitly meant to be a showcase of how the US military could beat this threat with all it's high-tech weapons. If you contained your misplaced disgust to read that far then you'll know that didn't work.
Say hello to another common trope in zombie fiction. In order for a zombie apocalypse to work there must be a breakdown of the normal order.



I think you need to learnt hat not everything can be viewed in terms of how terrible you think Israel is and that fiction is just that.
Christ, this has been depressing.

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I don't know anything about the author but I do know that Josef Goebbels was charged by Hitler to produce propaganda that fused politics, art, media, and literarature etc and it was highly succesful. Goebbels was obviously and openly Nazi but that doesn't make his propaganda any less of an attempt to influence minds by stealth or any less of a conspiracy.

Its a work of fiction. Entertainment. It also includes within the story, all sorts of issues and traits involving society and its factions within, not just race or Israel but class, nationality, wealth and even natural instinct when all else has failed.

Propaganda? Oh ffs.

Torakx

Remember this was probably wrriten with the film in mind.

Owryan

Torakx wrote: »

Remember this was probably wrriten with the film in mind.

From reading about the film and having seen the trailer , about the only thing the book and the film have in common is the title.

hooradiation

Owryan wrote: »

From reading about the film and having seen the trailer , about the only thing the book and the film have in common is the title.

True.

Still gonna go see it though.

Owryan

hooradiation wrote: »

True.

Still gonna go see it download though.

:P


FYP




only joking oh uber mods

shedweller

JustinDee wrote: »

Its a work of fiction. Entertainment. It also includes within the story, all sorts of issues and traits involving society and its factions within, not just race or Israel but class, nationality, wealth and even natural instinct when all else has failed.

Propaganda? Oh ffs.

A lot of propaganda could be regarded as fiction. Why should this be any different?

Tzar Chasm

that's a reasonable point, if someone posted a video of jude suss or some other film of that ilk they would probably be banned, I can see where brown bomber is coming from on this subject, but I would have to say that having read the book a lot of it is just due to the authors american perspective and his inclination to write for his target audience of americans, the book is full of little moments of over simplified americsnised views of the rest of the world, I fully expect in the movie that there will be a scene where some form of crowd chants USA,USA,USA

btw I too am not expecting the film to be any good, i'll still watch it, but i'm not expecting much

hooradiation

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

that's a reasonable point, if someone posted a video of jude suss or some other film of that ilk they would probably be banned, I can see where brown bomber is coming from on this subject, but I would have to say that having read the book a lot of it is just due to the authors american perspective and his inclination to write for his target audience of americans, the book is full of little moments of over simplified americsnised views of the rest of the world, I fully expect in the movie that there will be a scene where some form of crowd chants USA,USA,USA

Well I can't take his criticisms seriously, seeing as he didn't bother his hole to finish it.

Also, he seems to think it's about Israel being "the hero" when after the outbreak they really don't figure much into it and, as you said, it's more about the Americans.

JustinDee

shedweller wrote: »

A lot of propaganda could be regarded as fiction. Why should this be any different?

Fire away then. Read into what you will.
Its obvious that Max Brooks is a working class Afrikaaner pro-communist Cuban who supports Israel and hates entertainers, Arabs, Indian untouchables, women, Chinese farmers and most of all, Canadians . . . really.

Torakx

Sorry i just presumed the new film with Brad Pitt was based off that book.
Same name i think.

I guess if your looking for motive, you should check what other books that writer published and also the publishers.
If the movie is based off the book, then director, producer film history, symbolism and subliminals.

JustinDee

Torakx wrote: »

Sorry i just presumed the new film with Brad Pitt was based off that book.
Same name i think

It is the same book. I was being sarcastic because the charge that it is Zionist is that ludicrous and those traits are all derived from different tales related in the book.

Jewish author and son of Mel Brooks writes what is basically a broad look at the effects of a dystopian disaster on society across the globe. And that's about it really.

Brown Bomber

Torax,

If you are interested you can see for yourself. I found an audiobook version on youtube. The Israeli comes in just after 30 mins - then the Palestinian - then the Iranian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIhpOPJ2sXc

Torakx

0:42:00 - 0:48:00

Paints Israel as the only nation doing anything against the coming storm.A haven.
But also highlights taking in outside Jews and Palastinians, using the palestinians as human shields.

I kinda stopped listening after that.
There was alot of references to zionists.

Corkfeen

Corkfeen wrote: »

We really have to discuss some Mel Brooks films after this. Young Frankenstein as a critique on eugenics.

Blazing Saddles was his diatribe against people of colour holding public office as chaos would ensue.

JustinDee

King Mob wrote: »

Blazing Saddles was his diatribe against people of colour holding public office as chaos would ensue.

It was a satirical stab at racist politics in the US. How can that be misrepresented as being against non-whites holding office?? What backs that up?
It is clearly showing up the white people of the town being initially not ready for a non-white as sheriff, by their racist and myopic behaviour.

JustinDee

JustinDee wrote: »

How can that be misrepresented as being against non-whites holding office?? What backs that up?

The same way a book about zombies could be misrepresented as Zionist propaganda? As in not at all and you need to be looking really hard and ignoring the intent of the author...

JustinDee

King Mob wrote: »

The same way a book about zombies could be misrepresented as Zionist propaganda?

The obviousness of who 'Blazing Saddles' digs at is evident in the behaviour of the white people in the town in the first half of the movie.

With 'World War Z', obssessives here go to town on it without even reading the entire story because Israelis are seen as doing something incidentally good ie. being protected from the onslaught by the wall.
These people jumping the gun happen to ignore the ironies. The fact that Cuba becomes the richest nation, high explosive weapons are now useless, South Africans resort to extreme methods to protect themselves successfully, the top echelons in society end up as the grafters due to the futility of their lines of work (solicitors, bankers, politicians etc) while craftsmen are the most valuable.

Its not deep at all. Hidden messages? Twaddle.
Not exactly Umberto Eco but simple enough story written in a thoroughly engaging, pretty original and entertaining way.

hooradiation

JustinDee wrote: »

The obviousness of who 'Blazing Saddles' digs at is evident in the behaviour of the white people in the town in the first half of the movie.

With 'World War Z', obssessives here go to town on it without even reading the entire story because Israelis are seen as doing something incidentally good ie. being protected from the onslaught by the wall.
These people jumping the gun happen to ignore the ironies. The fact that Cuba becomes the richest nation, high explosive weapons are now useless, South Africans resort to extreme methods to protect themselves successfully, the top echelons in society end up as the grafters due to the futility of their lines of work (solicitors, bankers, politicians etc) while craftsmen are the most valuable.

Its not deep at all. Hidden messages? Twaddle.
Not exactly Umberto Eco but simple enough story written in a thoroughly engaging, pretty original and entertaining way.

Honestly, if they got as far as the redeker plan, they'd have kittens.
Followed by aneurysms.

Cookie_Monster

what about the whales? nobody gave a damn about the whales

Brown Bomber

King Mob wrote: »

The same way a book about zombies could be misrepresented as Zionist propaganda? As in not at all and you need to be looking really hard and ignoring the intent of the author...

And the same way that Animal Farm is clearly a children*s book about a bunch of animals on a farm.

Brown Bomber

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And the same way that Animal Farm is clearly a children*s book about a bunch of animals on a farm.

So then my interpretation of Blazing Saddles as a commentary on race relations is a valid one and I am justified in calling Mel Brooks a racist?
If not, why not?

You realise you are referring to a book about zombies that is a spinoff to another book even more tongue in cheek book right?

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And the same way that Animal Farm is clearly a children*s book about a bunch of animals on a farm.

Animal Farm can be interpreted on its allegorical theme as a whole. The overall theme is that obvious.
You on the other have picked one fractional strand of a fantasy horror novel then subjectively lumped the entire book/story as a pro-Zionist tome. To review fairly the actual novel itself overall, you would then also be saying that the author is a pro-working-class communist who supports the idea of Apartheid South Africa.

Seriously now . . .

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

speaking of mel brooks and stupid interpretations of his work, here's something i've wondered for years about spaceballs


ive seen it mentioned online by racist groups and people that the jews try to control blacks, either just because or to use them against white/christian people
and in spaceballs yoghurt (mel brooks, a jew) a very jewish character has the power of the "schwartz" so it's the jew controlling the black


always wondered was this a little joke mel brooks put into the movie or was it just as simple as him wanting to be in the movie and schwartz sounding an awful lot like force.

senordingdong

Clue is in the name.
Max Brooks, no?

JustinDee

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

speaking of mel brooks and stupid interpretations of his work, here's something i've wondered for years about spaceballs

ive seen it mentioned online by racist groups and people that the jews try to control blacks, either just because or to use them against white/christian people
and in spaceballs yoghurt (mel brooks, a jew) a very jewish character has the power of the "schwartz" so it's the jew controlling the black

always wondered was this a little joke mel brooks put into the movie or was it just as simple as him wanting to be in the movie and schwartz sounding an awful lot like force.

His movies are actually very self-effacing and make fun of his own just as much. Much like Larry David, Larry Sanders, Joan Rivers, David Baddiel or Jerry Seinfeld.
As for the 'schwartz', yes, it would have been used as a joke because of its rhyming with 'force'.

Brown Bomber

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

speaking of mel brooks and stupid interpretations of his work,

Was that really necessary?

Perhaps you could explain two things to me?

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Was that really necessary?

Perhaps you could explain two things to me?

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

BECAUSE YOU'RE PROJECTING YOUR OWN ZIONIST FIXATED WORLDVIEW ONTO A PIECE OF HARMLESS FICTION.

Thats what so stupid.

Brown Bomber

Sixtus wrote: »

BECAUSE YOU'RE PROJECTING YOUR OWN ZIONIST FIXATED WORLDVIEW ONTO A PIECE OF HARMLESS FICTION.

Thats what so stupid.

So stupid yet you can't actually make any attempt to answer two simple questions?

Neutron_pot

Reading WAY too much into it . . . im guessing you want to find zionist references . . . . very entertaining book though

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

So stupid yet you can't actually make any attempt to answer two simple questions?

So stupid that you can't see that I answered both questions.

Brown Bomber

Sixtus wrote: »

So stupid that you can't see that I answered both questions.

You are mistaken. You attacked me when I asked specific questions regarding the content of the book. Obviously I had nothing to do with the book. Try and think a little before flying off the handle in future.

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

You are mistaken. You attacked me when I asked specific questions regarding the content of the book. Obviously I had nothing to do with the book. Try and think a little before flying off the handle in future.

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

BECAUSE YOU'RE PROJECTING YOUR OWN ZIONIST FIXATED WORLDVIEW ONTO A PIECE OF HARMLESS FICTION.

I've answered the question. You're clearly projecting both your well documented fixation on Israeli and borderline anti-Semitism onto a piece of science fiction.

Brown Bomber

Sixtus wrote: »

I've answered the question. You're clearly projecting both your well documented fixation on Israeli and borderline anti-Semitism onto a piece of science fiction.

...If you say so... yet you can't answer simple questions...weird innit?

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Was that really necessary?

Perhaps you could explain two things to me?

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

Still haven't read the whole book have you?
It's about the irony of what is bad being now good as already pointed out to you. Communist govt in Cuba ends up leading wealthiest country, Mexico closes off borders to fleeing Americans, Apartheid, white collar professions being more necessary than blue collar and above, Soviet-style military more effective, Canada closing its borders, winter being mankind's best chance of survival, artillery/HE/missiles ineffective compared to hand held melee weapons and so on.

It's a horror book aimed at a more mature audience/readership normally associated with the genre. Also happens to be a cracking read due to its globe-trotting high-paced format.

Really is that simple. No need for the hystrionics at all.

Brown Bomber

Neutron_pot wrote: »

Reading WAY too much into it . . . im guessing you want to find zionist references . . . . very entertaining book though

I can promise you that I did not. Racist stereotypes etc was the last thing I expected to find in a novel about zombies tbh. Perhaps my sensitivity to these issues heightened my awareness? Perhaps my interest level in the genre (zero) and knowledge of author (zero) gave me a detachment from the author/plot than enabled me to observe possible allegories from a different perspective? I dunno. but in any case it is just my personal interpretations put forward for the purposes of discussion.

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

enabled me to observe possible allegories insert my own prejudices and hatred into innocuous fiction

Fixed that for you.

Brown Bomber

Sixtus wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

More distraction to avoid answering simple questions. You are not very good at this question dodging business

Might I recommend the Hasbara Handbook? I've found it quite useful.

[PDF] Hasbara Handbook - Middle-East-Info.org

www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf - Översätt den här sidan

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

More distraction to avoid answering simple questions. You are not very good at this question dodging business

Might I recommend the Hasbara Handbook? I've found it quite useful.

Fiction. Non Fiction.

Brown Bomber

Sixtus wrote: »

Fiction. Non Fiction.

Haha. Brilliant....and original! Shame you didn't read the Hasbara Handbook though - you could've "pointed scored" whilst appearing dignified. Ah well, back to the questions you've dodged:

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

JustinDee

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Haha. Brilliant....and original! Shame you didn't read the Hasbara Handbook though - you could've "pointed scored" whilst appearing dignified. Ah well, back to the questions you've dodged:

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

It is a shame you didn't read the book that you yourself brought up.
You've had a synopsis nicely simplified for you but don't appear to even read that.

Sixtus

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Haha. Brilliant....and original! Shame you didn't read the Hasbara Handbook though - you could've "pointed scored" whilst appearing dignified. Ah well, back to the questions you've dodged:

1. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in the apartheid wall being presented as a life-saving and crucial defensive measure to save the good guys? When this wall exists illegally to seperate the white people from brown people, in land that the white people have stolen from the brown people.
2. What is "stupid" about seeing the propaganda in Israel's warnings to the world about a global threat to humanity going unheeded resulting in devastating consequences? This is/was at a time when Israel is repeatedly warning the world about a supposed global threat to humanity?

Whats stupid? The entire premise that anyone could read World War Z and think it's pro Zionist Propaganda.

Your brain must be like "Being John Malkovich" When Malkovich goes through the the portal, except you see Jews everywhere.