Penalised For 3/6 month tax option.

goz83

I received my motor tax remiinder in the door this morning. I drive a 2L petrol 1997. Tax used to be €660 for the year. I don't know what it was for 3, or 6 months, but i'm pretty sure that if you went for 3 months and multiplied the sum by 4, the price was only a few euro in the difference. Maybe around a tenner more expensive if done in 3, or 6 month intervals.

So the tax has gone up to €710 for the year. No problem, I expected that. I normally buy the ful year, but baby number 4 came along mid December and I had taken a month off work to help out at home, so I thought I will get 3 months tax and then buy a years tax in March/April, because money is very tight right now. I was expecting it would be €180 (177.50 is a quarter of 710). But if I get 3 months tax, it costs €200. That's an extra €22.50 for the privilege of taking only 3 months tax! Or, to look at it another way, the annual tax, if done quarterly, is €90 more expensive. That's about 6 weeks of tax being paid extra. How can this be justified? I'm pretty sure the difference was nowhere near that high last year, was it?

Scumbags!

awec

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_Kaiser_

No you're right.. I've the same engine size and prior to this it was about €10 in the difference for the year vs quarterly payments

But as a lot of people (especially around Christmas/New Year) can't afford to stump up €710!! in one go, it's free money for Enda and Co to squander as people are left with no choice but to pay the quarterly amount instead :mad:

goz83

awec wrote: »

You aren't penalised for using the 3 or 6 month option. You get benefits for doing the 12 month option.

It's the same with everything you pay in instalments.

It wasn't that high before. It was only a few euro in the difference.

awec

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goz83

Another poor tax then. Those who can't afford the year, pay extra, but this time, extra is like 800% higher than before. As I said, I usually pay the year, but can't this time. It's f***ing extortion! I've a good mind to leave it untaxed for a month, then get the year, but I don't think I will, unless I leave the car ff the road for a month.

R.O.R

goz83 wrote: »

It wasn't that high before. It was only a few euro in the difference.

It was €186 a quarter last year for a 2000cc. Works out at €744 a year if taxed every 3 months, as opposed to €660 if done in one go.

It's now €200 a quarter or €710 for a whole year, so it's now exactly €6 a year more than it was last year.

goz83

awec wrote: »

Mine was 20 euro more expensive for the year if you paid in instalments, but I think it's a % rather than a set amount so the higher your tax the more the difference is.

Looks like it's 40 more expensive for instalments now. I guess they want to encourage people to pay in 1 go.

You must be driving a 08+, are you?

I don't mind paying extra for doing it in installments, but that amount is just taking the mick. There was no mention of this in the budget, was there?

awec

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goz83

R.O.R wrote: »

It was €186 a quarter last year for a 2000cc. Works out at €744 a year if taxed every 3 months, as opposed to €660 if done in one go.

It's now €200 a quarter or €710 for a whole year, so it's now exactly €6 a year more than it was last year.

Bloody hell. That's mental. Last time I taxed a car for 3 months was 7 years ago. The difference was €2 per 3 months on a 1.4 petrol. Alot has changed.

djimi

It was more than a couple of quid in the difference. My current tax disc (which I got last year at last years rates) was something like 598 for the year or 167 for 3 months (which works out 668 for 4 x 3 months).

goz83

I feel a bit better knowing that now, but it's still an absolute joke! Thanks for prompt replies guys.

_Kaiser_

Regardless, it's a ridiculous amount of money to ask people to pay in one go (bearing in mind that anyone who has a car like this likely can't afford to buy a new one with "de cheap tax" anyway)

Penalising them another €90 on top of that is just ridiculous!

And all for an average 2L engine that only in Ireland is a "big car" :rolleyes: but worse again that the same car with a slightly newer plate (in some cases maybe by 1 month) can be significantly cheaper

TouchingVirus

The difference hovers at 10% for half-year and 12.5-13% for quarterly from what I can see.

€1198 for a 2.5L paid in two installments, €1080 if paid in one - difference is €118 which is 10.925%.

€366 for a 1.1L paid in two installments, €330 if paid in one - difference is €36 which is 10.91%.

2.5L paid in four installments of €305 is €1220 - difference is €140 which is 12.96%

1.1L paid in four installments of €93 is €372 - difference is €42 which is 12.7%

You can understand the small difference of €10-€20 for paper, postage and payment processing fees but the percentage based system is a complete rip off.

Kenny Logins

The arrears are spot on, no 'penalty'.

Doom

This is more crap that shouldn't be allowed, better off people get the cheapest option, people who have lower incomes and pay by installments of 6 or 3 months pay more....wanker of a system.....:mad:

TouchingVirus

Kenny Logins wrote: »

The arrears are spot on, no 'penalty'.

Except the points and impounding. And you can't buy arrears only

Buffman

The exact % rates are given on most council websites. DCC

Half-year* 55.5% of the annual rate (disregard cent)

Quarterly ! 28.25% of the annual rate (disregard cent)

Arrears Monthly # 1/12 of the annual rate (disregard cent after multiplication)

So the more the annual rate rises, the higher the cost of the difference. Don't agree with a % based charge myself, should be a flat fee (€5?) or ideally no fee. As usual, those with pre-08 cars get screwed most!

coylemj

It used to be 11/40 (27.5%) of the annual rate for 3 months and 21/40 (52.5%) for 6 months.

This mean that you paid pro rata plus a one-off 2.5% if you taxed for less than 12 months.

Those numbers are now 28.25% for 3 months and 55.5% for 6 months, I don't know when they changed them.

awec

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goz83

awec wrote: »

That's the same with everything!

If you go to Harvey Norman and buy a fridge you'll pay more if you pay in instalments than if you pay in one go.

But you're paying for credit really.

Take the new house tax for example. You can pay in installments. Yeah it costs more, but only very slightly, to take into account the little bit of admin involved. Same with any other tax bill...the percentages are nowhere near what we are being charged on motor tax.

Kenny Logins

awec wrote: »

That's the same with everything!

If you go to Harvey Norman and buy a fridge you'll pay more if you pay in instalments than if you pay in one go.

Yeah, but you have the entire fridge.

pixbyjohn

Aww will ya stop moaning, pay up and look pleasant.

Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

You aren't penalised for using the 3 or 6 month option. You get benefits for doing the 12 month option.

It's the same with everything you pay in instalments.

If this was true the amount quoted per cc/emissions bracket should quote 4x 3months.

So no that isn't right at all

awec

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goz83

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Aww will ya stop moaning, pay up and look pleasant.

I will pay up, but i'm entitled to moan all I want. Don't like it, don't read it.

Supergurrier wrote: »

If this was true the amount quoted per cc/emissions bracket should quote 4x 3months.

So no that isn't right at all

? Explain

Supergurrier

Whats to explain, awec said it's a discount which would imply a reduction.

Yet the full amount listed on the revenue site is the 12 month rate, so no it's not a reduction it's a penalty

awec

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Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

The idea is that the 12 month rate is lower than the amount you pay if you pay in instalments.

The benefit is you pay less if you pay in 1 go. They want people to pay in 1 go.

So what you are saying is people are being penalised

awec

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Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

If you make it beneficial for people who pay it all in 1 go then by extension you could say that it penalises people who don't.

They want people to pay in 1 go, so they make it more beneficial to pay in 1 go by making a single payment cheaper.

You said it was a discount, im merely pointing out that it's not the case.

There is no listed discount rate only the full rate and the penalised rates which are clearly aimed at people on the breadline. Just a casual observation.

goz83

Supergurrier wrote: »

You said it was a discount, im merely pointing out that it's not the case.

There is no listed discount rate only the full rate and the penalised rates which are clearly aimed at people on the breadline. Just a casual observation.

It's kind of putting words into the mods mouth there....but I agree that it is a penalty, rather than a discount. A flat fee of €10 or similar would be fair across the board for installments, but the percentage system is a penal one imo.

Doom

awec wrote: »

That's the same with everything!

If you go to Harvey Norman and buy a fridge you'll pay more if you pay in instalments than if you pay in one go.

You are wrong, I have 3 annual payments, car insurance, house insurance and health insurance that do not levy an extra charge or % to pay by month, quarter or 6 monthly.....do your homework and get your facts right!

awec

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Kenny Logins

Doom wrote: »

You are wrong, I have 3 annual payments, car insurance, house insurance and health insurance that do not levy an extra charge or % to pay by month, quarter or 6 monthly.....do your homework and get your facts right!

It's not that simple, some do charge more for split payments.

Doom

awec wrote: »

Your car insurance doesn't charge more for paying by month?

Are you sure about that?

You might want to double check there, most insurers will give you a quote for payment in 1 go and then give you the monthly payments amount, and if you add up the monthly payment they add to MORE than the single payment amount.

I know how to add and know what I'm paying.....not my fault that you happen to be WRONG.....;)

goz83

Indeed it's always cheper to pay it in one go, but the staggered payment option is 10 installments in most cases, plus one payment to cover month 1 and month 12, so there is some admin there at least to consider.

Kenny Logins

Doom wrote: »

I know how to add and know what I'm paying.....not my fault that you happen to be WRONG.....;)

Which insurers BTW?

Doom

Kenny Logins wrote: »

It's not that simple, some do charge more for split payments.

And some do not...!

liammur

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Except the points and impounding. And you can't buy arrears only

When can they impound your car ?

But for a 97 car, that car tax is outrageous.

Kenny Logins

Doom wrote: »

And some do not...!

And some do..!

robertxxx

Don't tax it for two months, it's not like the cops are out in force checking.
Worth the risk I say.

Doom

Kenny Logins wrote: »

And some do..!

You said that already

goz83

liammur wrote: »

When can they impound your car ?

But for a 97 car, that car tax is outrageous.

If you're out of tax 2 months I think.

The age of the car is irrelevant. The tax should be based on emissions, not how young, or how old the car is (within reason). My 97 car is in better condition than many hitting their first nct.

awec

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liammur

goz83 wrote: »

If you're out of tax 2 months I think.

The age of the car is irrelevant. The tax should be based on emissions, not how young, or how old the car is (within reason). My 97 car is in better condition than many hitting their first nct.

I disagree with this. Car tax and emissions should have nothing in common. Car tax is simply WAY too high for cars in this country unless you own 08s up.

I'd like to hear someome from government justify your €710 for car tax.

goz83

liammur wrote: »

I disagree with this. Car tax and emissions should have nothing in common. Car tax is simply WAY too high for cars in this country unless you own 08s up.

I'd like to hear someome from government justify your €710 for car tax.

Of course it should be emissions based, but ideally the tax would be only at the pump...so you pay as you go. I do very small miles, so I don't see any justification in paying €710 (or 800 in installments) motor tax.

liammur

goz83 wrote: »

Of course it should be emissions based, but ideally the tax would be only at the pump...so you pay as you go. I do very small miles, so I don't see any justification in paying €710 (or 800 in installments) motor tax.

car tax is for having a car on the road. Why do some 4*4s (e.g. builders) get cheap tax if it's solely emissons based?

Emissions is like charging someone who has a 47" tv more for a tv license than someone who has a 14". It uses more power.

It's a scam that the public swallowed.

goz83

liammur wrote: »

car tax is for having a car on the road. Why do some 4*4s (e.g. builders) get cheap tax if it's solely emissons BASED?

Emissions is like charging someone who has a 47" tv more for a tv license than someone who has a 14". It uses more power.

It's a scam that the public swallowed.

If the bigger TV uses more power, the person who pays the electric bill pays more. Or you could just sit closer to the TV for the same effect :pac:

Some 4x4s used by builders are a necessity, so they get reduced (commercial) tax rates, due to them needing bigger, stronger vehicles. The 2008+ band system is purely designed, it just isn't fair at all and further devalued pre 2008 cars.

You are right that it's a scam though.

liammur

goz83 wrote: »

If the bigger TV uses more power, the person who pays the electric bill pays more. Or you could just sit closer to the TV for the same effect :pac:

Some 4x4s used by builders are a necessity, so they get reduced (commercial) tax rates, due to them needing bigger, stronger vehicles. The 2008+ band system is purely designed, it just isn't fair at all and further devalued pre 2008 cars.

You are right that it's a scam though.

Exactly, if someone is driving a 2.5L guzzler, they are paying more for their petrol. This is enough punishment as far as I can see.

goz83

€60 per month for tax on a 2L petrol is beyond belief really, but nothing will change, aside from the price going up.