35cent to top up €5 credit

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:00pm #1

35 cent for €5 credit was being asked from me in unnamed shops around the midlands this is at a time when people and businesses should be aiding people's needs or am I going mad!? Ok didn't mind a few years ago opinions?

kfallon · 06-01-2013 8:01pm

Can you not do it online and avoid this extra cost?

Absolutezero · 06-01-2013 8:01pm

Come on the private sector! Someone has to pay for the skiing holidays!

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:07pm

kfallon wrote: »

Can you not do it online and avoid this extra cost?

No...because I was meant to be shopping.

06-01-2013 8:09pm

Small shops have been doing this for years. They claim they're not making enough on them so add on a margin for themselves. I just refused to do business with them to be fair.

the keen edge · 06-01-2013 8:10pm

Flush your phone down the jacks, that'll show them.

Culleeo · 06-01-2013 8:11pm

I just don't shop in the places that have the extra charge.

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:14pm

jonbravo wrote: »

35 cent for €5 credit was being asked from me in unnamed shops around the midlands this is at a time when people and businesses should be aiding people's needs or am I going mad!? Ok didn't mind a few years ago opinions?

The networks have reduced the margin on the top-ups to the point that the shop is making so little on the top-ups that it isn't really worthwhile for them to sell the top-up. The shop would probably make less than 15c on the transaction, so even with the added charge the shop would only be making around 43c (after VAT is taken off the extra charge)

I know that a lot of people are going to start saying that the shops are being greedy, but the shops have costs that have to be paid out of the margins made from selling products (eg. wages, rates, electricity, tax, rent, cleaning, security etc.)

im invisible · 06-01-2013 8:15pm

you didnt mind paying a few years ago? its now that they need it

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:16pm

I think I should hand out blank star awards and take pictures of offender'S,...I ALSO confronted the owner of unnamed shop a but not shop B Or C.

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:18pm

im invisible wrote: »

you didnt mind paying a few years ago? its now that they need it

Wrong ,I'm doing ok I''ve no kids etc... no real big bills etc...

oldyouth · 06-01-2013 8:19pm

A shop gets roughly 3% on phone credit, so a €5 top up earns approx 15c which includes VAT of 2c, leaving the retailer with a taxable profit of 13c.

Trust me, there is no money in phone credit and the people who buy phone credit in my shop, rarely buy anything else where I can make a few bob

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:22pm

Karsini wrote: »

Small shops have been doing this for years. They claim they're not making enough on them so add on a margin for themselves. I just refused to do business with them to be fair.

When the shops first started selling the top-ups, the margin was ok, but over the last few years the networks have reduced the discount that they give on the top-ups, so the shops have been forced to absorb the increased costs without being able to increase the selling price, the latest price increases have hit the shops hard and they are obviously no longer able to absorb the increase in cost and must, therefore, increase the cost of the product

Phone top-ups seem to be the only type of product that when the supplier increases the wholesale price the retailer is expected to just take the hit on the price increase. If for example, Kraft increase the wholesale price of a Dairy Milk, it would be perfectly reasonable for the retail price of the bar to go up but if O2\Vodafone\Three\Meteor\e-mobile\Tesco increase the wholesale price charged for a €5 top-up from €4.60 to €4.85 the shop is still supposed to charge €5 (in this example VAT has been left on all the prices to make it easier to understand)

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:22pm

jahalpin wrote: »

The networks have reduced the margin on the top-ups to the point that the shop is making so little on the top-ups that it isn't really worthwhile for them to sell the top-up. The shop would probably make less than 15c on the transaction, so even with the added charge the shop would only be making around 43c (after VAT is taken off the extra charge)

I know that a lot of people are going to start saying that the shops are being greedy, but the shops have costs that have to be paid out of the margins made from selling products (eg. wages, rates, electricity, tax, rent, cleaning, security etc.)

Enough is enough with that sort of spray thinking.

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 8:22pm

Karsini wrote: »

Small shops have been doing this for years. They claim they're not making enough on them so add on a margin for themselves. I just refused to do business with them to be fair.

Actually, thats roughly how much extra the shops have to pay for the credit wholesale. The phone companies increased the cost.

I think its shocking, disgusting and disgraceful how some shops passed it on to the customers.

Scummy thing to do :rolleyes:

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 8:24pm

jonbravo wrote: »

Enough is enough with that sort of spray thinking.

Can somebody please explain this to me? I have no idea what hes saying.

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:26pm

jonbravo wrote: »

I think I should hand out blank star awards and take pictures of offender'S,...I ALSO confronted the owner of unnamed shop a but not shop B Or C.

Why would you do this? The local shops aren't subsidised by the state to provide services to the local people, if the margins made on the sale of product don't cover the shops costs (see list in previous post) the shop will close.

You should really be taking the matter up with the networks and asking them why they are they are increasing the wholesale prices charged for their products without increasing the official retail prices

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:28pm

jonbravo wrote: »

Enough is enough with that sort of spray thinking.

What exactly are you trying to say here?

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:28pm

Not that long ago a profit was a penny sweet.....this is the greed that most be pointed out!

VEN · 06-01-2013 8:30pm

they're not meant to be doing that, report them. if they could charge for lotto they'd be at that too but obviously they would be pushing it. chancers.

06-01-2013 8:31pm

jahalpin wrote: »

When the shops first started selling the top-ups, the margin was ok, but over the last few years the networks have reduced the discount that they give on the top-ups, so the shops have been forced to absorb the increased costs without being able to increase the selling price, the latest price increases have hit the shops hard and they are obviously no longer able to absorb the increase in cost and must, therefore, increase the cost of the product

Phone top-ups seem to be the only type of product that when the supplier increases the wholesale price the retailer is expected to just take the hit on the price increase. If for example, Kraft increase the wholesale price of a Dairy Milk, it would be perfectly reasonable for the retail price of the bar to go up but if O2\Vodafone\Three\Meteor\e-mobile\Tesco increase the wholesale price charged for a €5 top-up from €4.60 to €4.85 the shop is still supposed to charge €5 (in this example VAT has been left on all the prices to make it easier to understand)

superscouse wrote: »

Actually, thats roughly how much extra the shops have to pay for the credit wholesale. The phone companies increased the cost.

I think its shocking, disgusting and disgraceful how some shops passed it on to the customers.

Scummy thing to do :rolleyes:

As a consumer, I simply don't care, nor should I have to. The difference between increasing the price of a chocolate bar and adding a margin to phone credit is that with phone credit, you're supposed to get the same amount in credit as you paid for it. This is why the networks won't increase €10 credit to €10.25 or whatever.

Either sell it at face value or don't sell it at all.

VEN · 06-01-2013 8:32pm

jahalpin wrote: »

The networks have reduced the margin on the top-ups to the point that the shop is making so little on the top-ups that it isn't really worthwhile for them to sell the top-up. The shop would probably make less than 15c on the transaction, so even with the added charge the shop would only be making around 43c (after VAT is taken off the extra charge)

I know that a lot of people are going to start saying that the shops are being greedy, but the shops have costs that have to be paid out of the margins made from selling products (eg. wages, rates, electricity, tax, rent, cleaning, security etc.)

they should try charging for lotto then and see how far they'd get or just remove their lotto machines. if they can't afford to be in business don't stay in it.

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 8:32pm

VEN wrote: »

they're not meant to be doing that, report them. if they could charge for lotto they'd be at that too but obviously they would be pushing it. chancers.

Pure crap!

Any face value is a recommended price only. To try and enforce a selling price will get you prosecuted for price fixing.

Triangular · 06-01-2013 8:33pm

VEN wrote: »

they're not meant to be doing that, report them. if they could charge for lotto they'd be at that too but obviously they would be pushing it. chancers.

Wrong. They can. They put the prices to whatever they want. You don't have to buy from them.

It's not that they arn't making enough from credit, they make nothing at all. In my local shop they don't charge so not all shopkeepers are as tight as others.

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:34pm

VEN wrote: »

they're not meant to be doing that, report them. if they could charge for lotto they'd be at that too but obviously they would be pushing it. chancers.

It's not quite the same, the margin on lottery sales is protected by law as a term of the lottery operators licence from the state, call credit is a purely commercial product and the network operators seem to be able to vary the price at will

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 8:34pm

Karsini wrote: »

As a consumer, I simply don't care, nor should I have to. The difference between increasing the price of a chocolate bar and adding a margin to phone credit is that with phone credit, you're supposed to get the same amount in credit as you paid for it.

YOU DO

06-01-2013 8:36pm

superscouse wrote: »

YOU DO

Yes I do, when I keep away from shops that add a bit on to it.

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:40pm

Karsini wrote: »

As a consumer, I simply don't care, nor should I have to. The difference between increasing the price of a chocolate bar and adding a margin to phone credit is that with phone credit, you're supposed to get the same amount in credit as you paid for it. This is why the networks won't increase €10 credit to €10.25 or whatever.

Either sell it at face value or don't sell it at all.

What do you think will happen when all the small local shops stop selling the top-ups due to the low margins?

The large shops and the banks will start adding charges to the top-up costs and these will probably be more than the local shops are adding at the moment. I'm not sure, but the banks may already be charging for the service in the bank fees charged per transaction.

Large shops such as Tesco have enough power to dictate terms to most of their suppliers, they are probably getting an extra discount and paying when they are ready rather than the weekly direct debit method that the local shops would be forced to accept

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 8:41pm

Karsini wrote: »

Yes I do, when I keep away from shops that add a bit on to it.

Unless you are buying higher margin items along with the top-ups, it really isn't much of a loss

jd007 · 06-01-2013 8:42pm

jonbravo wrote: »

35 cent for €5 credit was being asked from me in unnamed shops around the midlands this is at a time when people and businesses should be aiding people's needs or am I going mad!? Ok didn't mind a few years ago opinions?

I'm more confused why the owners of these shops didn't give them a name? :pac:

Grayson · 06-01-2013 8:45pm

Shops make feck all on the lotto too. And a lot of newspapers. But you don't see them trying to charge an extra 35c for a quickpick. But that would be illegal.

Feck em if they're charging you. Just go somewhere else.

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 8:46pm

You don't need to just yet.

ImDave · 06-01-2013 8:49pm

It's barely worth the hassle for small shops to offer phone credit. If you are so tight as to be "disgusted" by a retailer trying to run a viable business for themselves, then just top-up online via online banking, your phone carrier's website, or at an ATM.

ScumLord · 06-01-2013 8:49pm

superscouse wrote: »

Actually, thats roughly how much extra the shops have to pay for the credit wholesale. The phone companies increased the cost.

I think its shocking, disgusting and disgraceful how some shops passed it on to the customers.

Scummy thing to do :rolleyes:

The cost is always passed onto the consumer. I don't know why anyone would think it wouldn't be. If the price of something goes up the end consumer has to pay those costs, it would make no sense for the middleman to get paid less to provide the same service.

oldyouth · 06-01-2013 8:53pm

superscouse wrote: »

Actually, thats roughly how much extra the shops have to pay for the credit wholesale. The phone companies increased the cost.

I think its shocking, disgusting and disgraceful how some shops passed it on to the customers.

Scummy thing to do :rolleyes:

Firstly, we don't add on any additional charge. Last week, phone credit takings were €405. Out of that, we get (rounded off) €12. After VAT, we are left with around €9.50.

We opened up our shop in June and had to front a deposit of €700 to Postpoint in the event of "abuse of the facility". As you can see, it ain't going to pay many bills

Very strong language you're using there but I think I have the solution to your problem. Go Billpay you tightwad and stop expecting local retailers to be your telecommunications version of a public convenience

06-01-2013 8:56pm

Am I the only one who read superscouse's comment as sarcasm, especially due to the use of the rolleyes?

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 9:01pm

I did go somewhere else so far that I lost a parking space and it was Christmas two weeks before. Not leaving out that confronted the shop owner who happen to be at the Christmas card stand, the only thing I said was "really 35 cent for 5 euro credit at Christmas really, what's that about!."

With little response only a redness of the face from this old wig I left the shop ... if only I could do more I remember thinking imagine this could be the difference from having milk or bread for some poor person.... it's the difference between living and not ...if them ads about the poor people are to be believed.

oldyouth · 06-01-2013 9:05pm

Karsini wrote: »

Am I the only one who read superscouse's comment as sarcasm, especially due to the use of the rolleyes?

I think so

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 9:06pm

Grayson wrote: »

Shops make feck all on the lotto too. And a lot of newspapers. But you don't see them trying to charge an extra 35c for a quickpick. But that would be illegal.

Feck em if they're charging you. Just go somewhere else.

We took on lotto and newspapers at "the price"

We did the same with phone credit. What has happened is the phone companies THEN INCREASED the cost of it.

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 9:07pm

ScumLord wrote: »

The cost is always passed onto the consumer. I don't know why anyone would think it wouldn't be. If the price of something goes up the end consumer has to pay those costs, it would make no sense for the middleman to get paid less to provide the same service.

I was being sarcastic, I know this. I sell the stuff.

My name is URL · 06-01-2013 9:08pm

I've honestly never been faced with such an additional charge. If they asked me for it before going to the 'trouble' of printing it out, I'd just wait until after they had done so and walk out

ScouseMouse · 06-01-2013 9:10pm

jonbravo wrote: »

I did go somewhere else so far that I lost a parking space and it was Christmas two weeks before. Not leaving out that confronted the shop owner who happen to be at the Christmas card stand, the only thing I said was "really 35 cent for 5 euro credit at Christmas really, what's that about!."

With little response only a redness of the face from this old wig I left the shop ... if only I could do more I remember thinking imagine this could be the difference from having milk or bread for some poor person.... it's the difference between living and not ...if them ads about the poor people are to be believed.

I think you need to get out more. If someone cannot afford bread and milk, they sure as hell should not be buying credit for a mobile phone.

As for your comment 35c at christmas, what has that got to do with it?

Do you think a shop doesnt have to pay staff, rates, esb and the like just because its christmas?

Im going to bow out now, just realised how silly your rant is.

Shinaynay · 06-01-2013 9:11pm

i get that its only 35c but surely if thats legal they could add that to the price of cigs? or papers? i know they slap about €2 on the magazines! scabby if you ask me

jonbravo · 06-01-2013 9:15pm

superscouse wrote: »

I think you need to get out more. If someone cannot afford bread and milk, they sure as hell should not be buying credit for a mobile phone.

As for your comment 35c at christmas, what has that got to do with it?

Do you think a shop doesnt have to pay staff, rates, esb and the like just because its christmas?

Im going to bow out now, just realised how silly your rant is.

No mate, it's the likes of you who I''ll evict in the morning ... without caring.

ImDave · 06-01-2013 9:17pm

jonbravo wrote: »

this could be the difference from having milk or bread for some poor person.... it's the difference between living and not ...if them ads about the poor people are to be believed.

You can't be serious!!

My name is URL · 06-01-2013 9:17pm

Shinaynay wrote: »

i get that its only 35c but surely if thats legal they could add that to the price of cigs? or papers?

Or just generally pressing a few buttons on the till. If a business depends on charging service fee of 35c when people top up their phones then their either not viable or taking the piss altogether.

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 9:18pm

Shinaynay wrote: »

i get that its only 35c but surely if thats legal they could add that to the price of cigs? or papers? i know they slap about €2 on the magazines! scabby if you ask me

They can add it to the price of cigs if they want to, but the margin on tobacco, is, while low enough, is still a lot higher than the margin on the top-ups

The magazines are priced in UK STERLING which is not the same as Euro and the Irish Government charge VAT (9% or 23% depending on the mag) on magazines which the UK do not, so obviously the price is going to be higher here than in the UK. Due to the extremely low population densities in ROI, the distribution costs are also a lot higher than in the UK, so this has to be factored into the price

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 9:20pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Or just generally pressing a few buttons on the till. If a business depends on charging service fee of 35c when people top up their phones then their either not viable or taking the piss altogether.

There's also the cost of the paper etc and the fact that if even one voucher goes missing etc, you have to sell around 40 to make up the cost.

A margin of 3 - 4% is not viable for anyone

Shinaynay · 06-01-2013 9:22pm

jahalpin wrote: »

There's also the cost of the paper etc and the fact that if even one voucher goes missing etc, you have to sell around 40 to make up the cost.

A margin of 3 - 4% is not viable for anyone

yeah guess so. weird that not all shops do it

jahalpin · 06-01-2013 9:23pm

jonbravo wrote: »

No mate, it's the likes of you who I''ll evict in the morning ... without caring.

If a 35c charge on a €5 top-up upsets you this much, it's unlikely that you would be in a position to evict anyone

My name is URL · 06-01-2013 9:30pm

jahalpin wrote: »

There's also the cost of the paper etc and the fact that if even one voucher goes missing etc, you have to sell around 40 to make up the cost.

A margin of 3 - 4% is not viable for anyone

Shop owners are the ones that decide whether or not they sell credit. If the additional 35c is what makes that viable for them then they probably shouldn't have decided to sell credit and lottery tickets etc in the first place.

It's their right to charge whatever they want, but I'd never pay it.

35cent to top up €5 credit

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