IBT esential?

ghogie91

Hi All,

After the Theory Test is passed, is it posible to get a provisional licence and get on the road without IBT?

What would be the steps to get on the road?

1.Theory Test
2..
3... etc.

Thank in advance
Gary

minidazzler

IBT is essential, your Learner Permit isn't really valid without it.

It's one of the cheaper things you'll spend money on for a bike when getting started, so just get it done It's a one off if you're over 24, if not it's a 2 time thing.

miller50841

RSA has all the info.
You must do IBT training 1st before you can ride alone.

eurofoxy

you technically do not have a licence/cert/what ever you want to call it till after the IBT..

Mr Motorcycle

ghogie91 wrote: »

Hi All,

After the Theory Test is passed, is it posible to get a provisional licence and get on the road without IBT?

What would be the steps to get on the road?

1.Theory Test
2..
3... etc.

Thank in advance
Gary

First off is not a provisional licence

Its a LEARNER PERMIT in other words a permit to learn.

You must do the IBT before you ride a motorcycle on a public road.

Insurance companys will quote you for cover but you are not insured unless you have an IBT cert.

Even if you have paid the premium and have the insurance policy in your hand.

Theory test
Obtain learner permit
IBT
you must hold a learner permit for a minamum of six months before your allowed to apply for your test

Wonda-Boy

Try not to take shortcuts when it comes to motorbikes m8....you will live longer.

Roadskill

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Try not to take shortcuts when it comes to motorbikes m8....you will live longer.

+1

ghogie91

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Try not to take shortcuts when it comes to motorbikes m8....you will live longer.

Ill be doing all by the book wanna do it and be as safe as possible...

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

Insurance companys will quote you for cover but you are not insured unless you have an IBT cert.

This bit isn't true but do the IBT and all will be fine.

Mr Motorcycle

bladespin wrote: »

This bit isn't true but do the IBT and all will be fine.

I think you will find that it is

If you have an accident your insurance company will pay the third party for any damage (they are legally obliged because they took your money)

However you will be fined /and get points for no insurance by gardai
Once the conviction has been processed by the courts

Then your own insurance company can persue you for any damages which they paid to the third party

(As explained to me by a traffic core garda,but sure what would he know its only his job)

The issue here is the legislation which covers the IBT, the insurance companys are quiet within their rights to offer you cover but its up to you to comply with the law

Insurance companys are just that ltd companys

The law however is a differnt matter

As i have said many times before ,i didnt know, wont cut it when your standing in front of the judge

If your so sure just ring your own insurance company(ask to speak to a supervisor) and ask that very question

You might be suprised with the answer

The bottom line is no IBT cert = no insurance

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I
If you have an accident your insurance company will pay the third party for any damage (they are legally obliged because they took your money)

As I said, you are insured. There have been numerous threads about this re restriction, permits etc.
Insurance companies thankfully can't write the law (nor do traffic corps for that matter), your facts are correct and you're contradicting your original post.
Once you have insurance, you have insurance, simples, the gardai should/would be more interested in your permit, btw, the gardai cannot fine you or give you points, that's for the court.

Totally agree it's stupid to go without it but facts are facts, once they've taken payment you are insured, you're taking a massive risk on something silly tbh, better to be safe and unlike the restriction laws this one actually makes a bit of sense.

Mr Motorcycle

bladespin wrote: »

As I said, you are insured. There have been numerous threads about this re restriction, permits etc.
Insurance companies thankfully can't write the law (nor do traffic corps for that matter), your facts are correct and you're contradicting your original post.
Once you have insurance, you have insurance, simples, the gardai should/would be more interested in your permit, btw, the gardai cannot fine you or give you points, that's for the court.

Totally agree it's stupid to go without it but facts are facts, once they've taken payment you are insured, you're taking a massive risk on something silly tbh, better to be safe and unlike the restriction laws this one actually makes a bit of sense.

The point is in the eyes of the law you are not insured unless you have an IBT cert

If you were insured then you would not be open to points/fines from the courts
The bit that sez
Once the conviction has been processed by the courts

Read the post properly i didnt say the gardai gave you the points or fines

The law is the bottom line because the insurance company will use the law when they take the shirt off your back to recoup their money

nerrad1983

As far as i understand your insurance would be null and void as you gave false information

I was told that in order for your licence to be validated you HAVE to complete the ibt course:cool:

Roadskill

nerrad1983 wrote: »

As far as i understand your insurance would be null and void as you gave false information

I was told that in order for your licence to be validated you HAVE to complete the ibt course:cool:

Nobody knows until it happens. All guesswork ATM. In theory any of the above could happen and the law is there but it's up to a judge in the end.
Btw no insurance if charged is 5 penalty points and a mandatory court appearance. Enough said.

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

The point is in the eyes of the law you are not insured unless you have an IBT cert

What do you base this on?
You are covered 3rd party, once covered you are complying with the law on the insurance point, permit is a different thing, I have yet to hear of anyone prosecuted using that logic.

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

The law is the bottom line because the insurance company will use the law when they take the shirt off your back to recoup their money

Absolutely right.

bitburger

just gonna chime in and play devils advocate, gonna repost somthing i posted on another forum but nobody really knew the answer to.

bitburger wrote:

I know ive asked this before and since i know several people driving around without ibts(that need them) i thought i would bring up the question again because i was having it out with one of the mates the other day and the EDT (car ibt) does not need to be done before going on the road apparently


http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Driver-Training/Car-Training-EDT/Commonly-asked-questions-about-EDT/

Is it an offence to drive a car before I finish EDT?

It is not an offence as long as you are complying with all other regulations (Insurance, car tax, NCT, accompanying driver etc) but you will have to complete EDT before you can sit your driving tes

the same faq regarding ibt does not have the same question within it, I know a good few ibtless people stopped who have had nothing said to them also.

Where abouts in the statue book does it say its a requirement to have it? also wondering what would the charges for driving without an ibt be? lets not include the insurance argument since its already been covered on here.

just trying to educate myself a bit better, thankfully im pre ibt but will have to do a module 5 sometime in the future when the time comes to move from my A2 to A, have to pass the old A test first and get my A2

Mr Motorcycle

bladespin wrote: »

What do you base this on?
You are covered 3rd party, once covered you are complying with the law on the insurance point, permit is a different thing, I have yet to hear of anyone prosecuted using that logic.



Absolutely right.

statutory instrument si 681/2011 in other words the law
covers IBT have a good read of it and then come back and tell me that you dont have to do IBT before you go on the road

when you do read it and realise you are not complying with the law unless you have an IBT cert or your accompanied by an instructor

so no your not covered on the insurance point

read the small print on your insurance you must disclose all relavent facts
the fact that you dont have a IBT cert as required by law is pretty relavent wouldnt you say

szatan84

I think you're going a bit off topic here. Bottom line is:

1. Test
2. Learner permit
3. Ibt

Until you have these u can't/shouldn't drive.

Mr Motorcycle

szatan84 wrote: »

I think you're going a bit off topic here. Bottom line is:

1. Test
2. Learner permit
3. Ibt

Until you have these u can't/shouldn't drive.

i agree with you to a degree, but we are debating the point as to why you need an IBT cert.

And its standing in law and the implications for insurance so its still relevant

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

statutory instrument si 681/2011 in other words the law
covers IBT have a good read of it and then come back and tell me that you dont have to do IBT before you go on the road

when you do read it and realise you are not complying with the law unless you have an IBT cert or your accompanied by an instructor

so no your not covered on the insurance point

read the small print on your insurance you must disclose all relavent facts
the fact that you dont have a IBT cert as required by law is pretty relavent wouldnt you say

Where did I ever mention it was ok not to do IBT before going on the road?

I never said it was legal either, please take just a minute to actually read posts you're commenting on.

Once again, yes, you are covered third party regardless.

As requested, could you give one example of someone being prosecuted for this?

pauric141

so you cant hold an ibt untill your 16 and a half ?

Roadcraft

pauric141 wrote: »

so you cant hold an ibt untill your 16 and a half ?

16 for an 'M' or A1 Learner Permit ('M' will change to 'AM' from 19th Januaty)

Roadcraft

bitburger wrote: »

just gonna chime in and play devils advocate, gonna repost somthing i posted on another forum but nobody really knew the answer to.





Where abouts in the statue book does it say its a requirement to have it? also wondering what would the charges for driving without an ibt be? lets not include the insurance argument since its already been covered on here.

just trying to educate myself a bit better, thankfully im pre ibt but will have to do a module 5 sometime in the future when the time comes to move from my A2 to A, have to pass the old A test first and get my A2

Go to RSA.ie and put IBT fines into the search box (No IBT punishable to a min fine of 1000 euro for a first offence).

It is in law that you must have IBT completed before you ride on a public road unaccompanied.

bitburger

thanks roadcraft, actually found the Statuatory instrument which says you need the ibt after asking above there, does that mean that us bikers must have ibt but car drivers do not need to have edt done until they want to take a test?


interesting the guards dont seem to be enforcing it though,

LookBehindYou

bitburger wrote: »

thanks roadcraft, actually found the Statuatory instrument which says you need the ibt after asking above there, does that mean that us bikers must have ibt but car drivers do not need to have edt done until they want to take a test?


interesting the guards dont seem to be enforcing it though,

Answer is Yes.
learner Bike riders must have the compulsory IBT training done before they can ride alone legally.
A Car learner should have a full licence driver with them in the car when driving. They are only obliged to have the EDT lessons completed before their car test.
Car learners are NOT restricted to the size of engine or power.

Blame the people who were elected to represent the people of this country.

Mr Motorcycle

LookBehindYou wrote: »

Answer is Yes.
learner Bike riders must have the compulsory IBT training done before they can ride alone legally.
A Car learner should have a full licence driver with them in the car when driving. They are only obliged to have the EDT lessons completed before their car test.
Car learners are NOT restricted to the size of engine or power.

Blame the people who were elected to represent the people of this country.

I have heard a rumor that all thats about to change in the very near future in relation to edt.
That said i dont know a lot about EDT as i only instruct on bikes but watch this space

bladespin

Mr Motorcycle wrote: »

I have heard a rumor that all thats about to change in the very near future in relation to edt.
That said i dont know a lot about EDT as i only instruct on bikes but watch this space

Heard the same thing from a fairly reliable source.

pauric141

Roadcraft wrote: »

16 for an 'M' or A1 Learner Permit ('M' will change to 'AM' from 19th Januaty)

so am will be for a 50cc 45kmh restriction ? the learner permet doesnt change its just a differnt letter(s) ? have i got it right

Roadcraft

pauric141 wrote: »

so am will be for a 50cc 45kmh restriction ? the learner permet doesnt change its just a differnt letter(s) ? have i got it right

'AM' Mopeds (Same as before) & Light Quadricycles.
'A1' Motorcycles Max 125cc 11kw (Same as before) & Motor Tricycles not exceeding 15kw.
'A2' Motorcycles not exceeding 35kw or 0.2kw/kg & not derived from a motorcycle of more than 70kw.
'A' Motorcycles & Motor Tricycles.

Joeranty91

so can somebody please give a final answer to this question
I pass my bike theory test today, can i get insured today and ride on the road tomorrow?
or do I have to do this ibt course before i get on the road?
someone mentioned to me that i only have to do one lesson before i go on the road, is this true?

P.C.

Joeranty91 wrote: »

so can somebody please give a final answer to this question
I pass my bike theory test today, can i get insured today and ride on the road tomorrow?
or do I have to do this ibt course before i get on the road?
someone mentioned to me that i only have to do one lesson before i go on the road, is this true?

You need to
- Pass theory test
- Complete IBT
- Get insurance

Then you can ride on your own.

SeaDaily

Joeranty91 wrote: »

so can somebody please give a final answer to this question

This question was already answered several times. Did you not read through the thread before posting?:rolleyes:

Roadcraft

P.C. wrote: »

You need to
- Pass theory test
- Complete IBT
- Get insurance

Then you can ride on your own.

Pass theory test
Get learner permit (Can't do IBT without it)
Complete IBT
Get insurance

Then you can ride on your own

paddy147

You wouldnt ride down a motorway with no crash helmet,would you??



Think about it.




Do it propperly and legally...or dont do it at all.

Its as simple as that.

razor_ryan

What about people on their 2nd learner permit ?

Suasdaguna1

I rode bikes of all sorts as a teen but never did my full Licence. Returned to biking 30yrs later kicking the ars@ out of 50. Had to do IBT upto level 5 to get the A permit. It has drilled me to save myself and be a better rider.....it has been the best loot I have ever spent. Hours on end with a guy you nearly want to hate chirping in your ear do this, do that......I nearly want to string up the instructor initially as mr know all here.....well out on my own that niggling instructor has saved my ass with positioning, road sense, life savers etc etc drilled into me. The gas thing is that b@ll@x of an instructor who made my life misery drilling me in all types of weather......we have ended up good pals.

IBT is utterly essential......it engrains the tools and methods to be a safer rider (a) for you and (b) for other road users.

Enjoy.

bladespin

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

IBT is utterly essential......it engrains the tools and methods to be a safer rider (a) for you and (b) for other road users.

Totally disagree with that but if the law says you have to then just do it and get on with enjoying the summer.

paddy147

bladespin wrote: »

Totally disagree with that but if the law says you have to then just do it and get on with enjoying the summer.

I couldnt agree more with that statement actually.

Id love to see how many non IBT full licence bikers here would actually be able to do the IBT and then pass their test 1st time around again,with reagrds to their mental awareness and physical bike skills and road positioning.

bladespin

paddy147 wrote: »

I couldnt agree more with that statement actually.

Id love to see how many non IBT full licence bikers here would actually be able to do the IBT and then pass their test 1st time around again,with reagrds to their mental awareness and physical bike skills and road positioning.

Good for you, but how would that make it essential? surely the fact that they are still on the road disproves your point.

paddy147

bladespin wrote: »

Good for you, but how would that make it essential? surely the fact that they are still on the road disproves your point.

I totally agree with the statement above .

An IBT makes a person more mentaly aware and conscious and also makes them a safer rider for it too.


You seem to think not.....but thats your opinion,which you are entitled to.





But please do tell me how you think that above statement by Suasdaguna1 is not a correct statement.

bladespin

paddy147 wrote: »

But please do tell me how you think that above statement by Suasdaguna1 is not a correct statement.

Fairly obvious but I don't believe IBT is essential, it's a good idea maybe but not essential -that's how.

paddy147

bladespin wrote: »

Fairly obvious but I don't believe IBT is essential, it's a good idea maybe but not essential -that's how.

Why is an IBT not essential for anyone who wants to get their bike licence and ride a bike??

bladespin

paddy147 wrote: »

Why is an IBT not essential for anyone who wants to get their bike licence and ride a bike??

Where does it say that?

Obviously if the law requires it then any new rider has to do it but I really don't see the need for it in the first place, I don't know a single rider who didn't already do their homework albeit unofficially before they started.

paddy147

bladespin wrote: »

Where does it say that?

Obviously if the law requires it then any new rider has to do it but I really don't see the need for it in the first place, I don't know a single rider who didn't already do their homework albeit unofficially before they started.

Im asking you to tell us why an IBT is not essential for a person to get a licence and ride a bike on the road.

You are the one who is saying its not essential...so please tell me why it isnt.

bladespin

paddy147 wrote: »

Im asking you to tell us why an IBT is not essential for a person to get a licence and ride a bike on the road.

You are the one who is saying its not essential...so please tell me why it isnt.

Troll much?
I didn't say IBT isn't required to get a licence or anything like that,, please take time to read the post you're getting all worked up about.

paddy147

bladespin wrote: »

Troll much?
I didn't say IBT isn't required to get a licence or anything like that,, please take time to read the post you're getting all worked up about.

Read your posts again from Post 37 onwards

You dont agree that an IBT is essential.

I have asked you several times now why it isnt essential...and you will not answer me.




Dont avoid me and dont avoid your own posts.

Instead please tell me why its not essential for a person to do an IBT to get their licence and ride a bike.

bladespin

paddy147 wrote: »

Read your posts again.

You dont agree that an IBT is essential.

Please tell me why its not essential.

Once again, please read my post carefully, you're obviouly having difficulty with it.

IMO IBT isn't essential to engrain the tools and methods to be a safer rider (a) for you and (b) for other road users. By all means feel free to disagree.

I haven't avoided anything, what are you on about?

Suasdaguna1

bladespin wrote: »

Totally disagree with that but if the law says you have to then just do it and get on with enjoying the summer.

When you are a fugh wit like me that's out of the loop so long and sits up on a 1200cc bike , one needs all the help they can get.

I just don't know where you are coming from thinking you can jump up on a 1200cc bike without instruction.....that's where I was at.

bladespin

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

I just don't know where you are coming from thinking you can jump up on a 1200cc bike without instruction.....that's where I was at.

Did I say anything even remotely like that anywhere?

You can do it but I wouldn't recommend it.

paddy147

bladespin wrote: »

Once again, please read my post carefully, you're obviouly having difficulty with it.

IMO IBT isn't essential to engrain the tools and methods to be a safer rider (a) for you and (b) for other road users. By all means feel free to disagree.

I haven't avoided anything, what are you on about?

So you must have reasons why an IBT isnt essential....seen as you dont agree with Suasdaguna1......(your post 37)


Please post those reasons.


That is what is being asked of you on several occasions now.


Why do you think its not essential for a person do an IBT in order to get a licence and ride a bike.

bladespin

paddy147 wrote: »

So you must have reasons whay an IBT isnt essential.


Please post those reasons.

I believe anyone considering riding a bike is capable of making their own mind up about training and that they shouldn't be forced to pay for lessons they could get from another experienced rider.

paddy147 wrote: »

Why do you think its not essential for a person to not do an IBT in order to get a licence and ride a bike.

Once again, please read the post, I never said in any shape or form that anyone can/ should get a licence without completing IBT, now instead of repeatedly accusing me of this can you actually show me where I posted this?