Waterford Statistics and Ideas

PremierDeise

I hate to put a negative twist on everything as I know we really need to look on the bright side of things which is exactly why I did not want to start this thread in the first place but I don´t know anywhere else to get this info.
What I need to do is get a list of statistics based in Waterford City and County for things like what the percentage currently is for employed/Unemployed, How many people would have signed onto social welfare in 2012 and how many jobs were lost/businesses were closed down in 2012 etc.
The reason you may ask is that I am looking at the prospect of putting together a project of ideas to help rejuvenate the shopping experience in the city centre and need to have my facts correct.
All ideas welcome as to any ideas that shops/businesses can do to help coax the shoppers back into the centre of town. It can range from prices to special offers to something completely extraordinary......

Basically try picture this scenario: You own a shop/business in the city centre - What would you do to attract customers to the area or to the city centre?

Looking forward to your input

PD

Daffodil.d

I have said this before and people will disagree with me but killKenny are doing something right. Is it th way the shops are all mainly in the same vicinity apart from mc donagh junction.? Cheaper parking? Lower rates?
Also look at city square, it has potential to be a centre hub but there's allegedly 5 stores in there closing this month. There's already 1 empty unit so that will make 6. Are their rates too high? Even with a high unemployment rate people still need to dress themselves and eat.children still grow out of their clothes and need new ones. So that can't be directly blamed.
I always shop locally even if it's not a local company my friends and family may still be employed in certain places. 2 reasons I would be inclined to leave town are marks and spencers and H andM.

SubBusted

Blame Dunmore Road. Everyone moved out there and the city centre is dead now.

Cabaal

SubBusted wrote: »

Blame Dunmore Road. Everyone moved out there and the city centre is dead now.

Personally I blame extremely high priced parking (ever park in city square for 3hours?).

As well as what I've seen from many people in Waterford which is their refusal to walk any sort or short distance.

Lets take pubs/clubs as an example, An example of this is I've seen people refuse to walk from Masons to what was Shefflins because "its too far".

Too far?, its like 250metres, compare this to Kilkenny where people don't mind walking from say a pub at the end of High Street to Johns Street down near Langtons.

Because of this apparent refusal in Waterford it has forced all the bigger pubs into a very small area and basically has created a situation where nothing outside of this area can make enough business to survive.

Look at Waterford years ago where pubs/clubs were much more spread out, much more health environment for business.

An other example of narrow mindedness is the hotels on the quays.

From what I understand the Grandville owner also owns atleast one of the carparks on the quays. Normally if a hotel has access to carparks like this they'd offer free parking to guests or heavily disconnected rate.

My understanding is they don't offer any discount, I am however open to correction on this.

I find it sad to say but Waterford is really dieing a death and that death can't just be blamed on the big bad government, there are far more factors at play here.

SubBusted

Cabaal wrote: »

I find it sad to say but Waterford is really dieing a death and that death can't just be blamed on the big bad government, there are far more factors at play here.

The smarter people leave. I know of three people who grew up in Waterford but left after school and are now millionaires.

fiesty lady

yeah I have to agree we need a few big names like M&S, H&M, New look, Zara etc in Waterford to get shoppers into the city, even if these shops are on the outskirts of the city if shoppers are in Waterford for the day they will come into the city centre. Parking in waterford is too expensieve at 1.80 euro an hour and you still have to pay on a Friday night when most shops are closed. Dundrum shopping centre is only 2 hours away and you can park there for 2 euro for 3 hours. I am all for shopping local but you need to give people what they want.

PremierDeise

fiesty lady wrote: »

yeah I have to agree we need a few big names like M&S, H&M, New look, Zara etc in Waterford to get shoppers into the city, even if these shops are on the outskirts of the city if shoppers are in Waterford for the day they will come into the city centre. Parking in waterford is too expensieve at 1.80 euro an hour and you still have to pay on a Friday night when most shops are closed. Dundrum shopping centre is only 2 hours away and you can park there for 2 euro for 3 hours. I am all for shopping local but you need to give people what they want.

I agree with the parking - its really way too expensive. €1.80 an hour is crazy. Do you get a discount if you spend so much in City Square?
What I found was that when there was a bit of entertainment on in the centre of town it attracted people in but did it benefit the stores??
Winterval was a fantastic idea and my congratulations goes out to everyone involved but how do we keep something like that going into the new year?

PremierDeise

So any idea where I would find these statistics?

Ted_YNWA

Would the CSO give these stats out to the public ?

Jason Todd

A few things I would like to see:
> A Market 'Hub'... something like the apple market on a bigger scale, stalls, fresh local produce for sale, hand crafted goods etc, and the spaces would be mostly exempt from the high rates that shops suffer.

> Reduce rates even a little bit, or to fill existing spaces offer empty units to the likes of H&M on a short term basis with special rates and see if that boosts trade through town and all going well these places may continue trading.

> I'd like to see something happen with Johnstown / Waterside, it's a waste of space and could be used as a site for a multi-storey carpark which in turn might bring down parking prices elsewhere.

> If parking was centralised in Johnstown / Waterside and the other car park near Newgate St. then maybe some of the space on the Quay could be reclaimed and converted like the Quay in Wexford with some nice walks, benches, the aforementioned stalls etc. Something that would be really impressive as you come over the bridge.

> There needs to be greater communication between pubs, clubs, hotels etc in terms of offers for out-of-towners, really put together packages to entice people for a weekend stay for example. Maybe some sort of local government-led initiative might help this.

> Just a gripe I have, but some of the roads and paths in the city are shocking. Just for example the road that leads you to the Garda Barracks from Nicky's Pub is ridiculous, the tracking on my car is fecked from travelling it every day. While I'm in that area, Ballybricken could do with a freshen up, the greens aren't cut on a regular enough basis and the bull post is looking knackered now. A freshen up and given a Viking Triangle style makeover might bring more trade up that way and stop the rot that's happening up there with regards to shop closure.

> I wonder is there something that the City Council can do in relation to shabby looking buildings. Once a shop has closed down it is left to ruin, and takes the look off the area, can the council hold owners to account and demand a fresh lick of paint once a year, or rather than blacked out windows have some sort of nice design or pattern in its place.

> The regeneration project of O'Connell St. and it's surrounds seems to have slowed right down, the trees are nice, the paths are better, but lighting is poor and it has an uneasy atmosphere after 6 o'clock that I know puts people off going down there.

> Someone on boards before suggested this, and I think it's a great idea: Have live music and public events in the city centre AFTER 6 o'clock which would entice more people to stay which in turn might entice shops to open later. Create a cultural vibe which could become the lifeblood of the place. We have the performers, we have the bands, we have the history... it needs a push.

They're just some things from the top of my head, if I think of anymore I'll post them up. Obviously my suggestions will be riddled with faults from lack of funding to planning laws to improbabilities but if you know why something mightn't work feel free to say, but BE NICE please, we all know how these threads can get out of hand from time to time!

PremierDeise

Jason Todd wrote: »

A few things I would like to see:
> A Market 'Hub'... something like the apple market on a bigger scale, stalls, fresh local produce for sale, hand crafted goods etc, and the spaces would be mostly exempt from the high rates that shops suffer.

> Reduce rates even a little bit, or to fill existing spaces offer empty units to the likes of H&M on a short term basis with special rates and see if that boosts trade through town and all going well these places may continue trading.

> I'd like to see something happen with Johnstown / Waterside, it's a waste of space and could be used as a site for a multi-storey carpark which in turn might bring down parking prices elsewhere.

> If parking was centralised in Johnstown / Waterside and the other car park near Newgate St. then maybe some of the space on the Quay could be reclaimed and converted like the Quay in Wexford with some nice walks, benches, the aforementioned stalls etc. Something that would be really impressive as you come over the bridge.

> There needs to be greater communication between pubs, clubs, hotels etc in terms of offers for out-of-towners, really put together packages to entice people for a weekend stay for example. Maybe some sort of local government-led initiative might help this.

> Just a gripe I have, but some of the roads and paths in the city are shocking. Just for example the road that leads you to the Garda Barracks from Nicky's Pub is ridiculous, the tracking on my car is fecked from travelling it every day. While I'm in that area, Ballybricken could do with a freshen up, the greens aren't cut on a regular enough basis and the bull post is looking knackered now. A freshen up and given a Viking Triangle style makeover might bring more trade up that way and stop the rot that's happening up there with regards to shop closure.

> I wonder is there something that the City Council can do in relation to shabby looking buildings. Once a shop has closed down it is left to ruin, and takes the look off the area, can the council hold owners to account and demand a fresh lick of paint once a year, or rather than blacked out windows have some sort of nice design or pattern in its place.

> The regeneration project of O'Connell St. and it's surrounds seems to have slowed right down, the trees are nice, the paths are better, but lighting is poor and it has an uneasy atmosphere after 6 o'clock that I know puts people off going down there.

> Someone on boards before suggested this, and I think it's a great idea: Have live music and public events in the city centre AFTER 6 o'clock which would entice more people to stay which in turn might entice shops to open later. Create a cultural vibe which could become the lifeblood of the place. We have the performers, we have the bands, we have the history... it needs a push.

They're just some things from the top of my head, if I think of anymore I'll post them up. Obviously my suggestions will be riddled with faults from lack of funding to planning laws to improbabilities but if you know why something mightn't work feel free to say, but BE NICE please, we all know how these threads can get out of hand from time to time!

Great Ideas Jason - You see this is what we need to do - Everyone get some great ideas together

Smiley Burnett

city centre is suffering because of a number of reasons (same applies to most towns)

1---online grocery shopping
2---online clothes shopping/catalogue shopping
3---price of alcohol in off-licences etc compared to pubs has led to drinking at home
4---out-of-town shopping centres i.e. TESCOs ar Ardkeen etc

Dum_Dum

Trust me. Build a replica of Christ the Redeemer overlooking the town. Make it out of crystal and illuminate it. It will be the eighth wonder of the world. Remember - you heard it hear first.

PremierDeise

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

city centre is suffering because of a number of reasons (same applies to most towns)

1---online grocery shopping
2---online clothes shopping/catalogue shopping
3---price of alcohol in off-licences etc compared to pubs has led to drinking at home
4---out-of-town shopping centres i.e. TESCOs ar Ardkeen etc

There is obviously something being done wrong - I don't see any other city centre as badly hit as Waterford.....

Psychedelic

Jason Todd wrote: »

A few things I would like to see:
> A Market 'Hub'... something like the apple market on a bigger scale, stalls, fresh local produce for sale, hand crafted goods etc, and the spaces would be mostly exempt from the high rates that shops suffer.

There are already a few different markets in the city centre, not sure if they are still operating though, there was one based over by High Street.

Jason Todd wrote: »

> Reduce rates even a little bit, or to fill existing spaces offer empty units to the likes of H&M on a short term basis with special rates and see if that boosts trade through town and all going well these places may continue trading.

Councils can't charge special rates as it's against competition law. The rates in Waterford City will not be reduced, unless the Council can find another major source of income. In fact the rates might even be increased once the council merger is implemented.

Jason Todd wrote: »

> I'd like to see something happen with Johnstown / Waterside, it's a waste of space and could be used as a site for a multi-storey carpark which in turn might bring down parking prices elsewhere.

I think there's planning permission for a car park in that area, which if I remember correctly is currently being objected to An Bord Pleanala by Port of Waterford (they own a car park on the Quay so I assume they don't want competition from a new car park).

Jason Todd wrote: »

> If parking was centralised in Johnstown / Waterside and the other car park near Newgate St. then maybe some of the space on the Quay could be reclaimed and converted like the Quay in Wexford with some nice walks, benches, the aforementioned stalls etc. Something that would be really impressive as you come over the bridge.

That is a long term plan of the Council, but I think leases have to run out on the privately owned car parks before the Council can do anything there.

Jason Todd wrote: »

> I wonder is there something that the City Council can do in relation to shabby looking buildings. Once a shop has closed down it is left to ruin, and takes the look off the area, can the council hold owners to account and demand a fresh lick of paint once a year, or rather than blacked out windows have some sort of nice design or pattern in its place.

The Council have been tackling that problem in a number of ways: forcing landlords to clean up their building which the landlords must comply with by law or be subject to fines, and pop-up art studios whereby artists can use an empty premises to display their work. Some buildings are presumably in NAMA so I don't know if they have to do anything about a building's upkeep. It has worked though because a load of buildings have been re-painted and/or re-plastered or had their signage re-done in the last 2 years.

Jason Todd wrote: »

> The regeneration project of O'Connell St. and it's surrounds seems to have slowed right down, the trees are nice, the paths are better, but lighting is poor and it has an uneasy atmosphere after 6 o'clock that I know puts people off going down there.

Yeah they need to do something about that street. The street's image hasn't been helped by the new sex shop there (opposite the Granary cafe) which really sticks out with its gaudy lights & colours and all that bondage crap in the windows.

Jason Todd wrote: »

> Someone on boards before suggested this, and I think it's a great idea: Have live music and public events in the city centre AFTER 6 o'clock which would entice more people to stay which in turn might entice shops to open later. Create a cultural vibe which could become the lifeblood of the place. We have the performers, we have the bands, we have the history... it needs a push.

I think outdoor music has been happening already, at least during the summer season anyway, and there are public events, but yeah more can be done there.

SubBusted

http://www.cso.ie/en/studentscorner/statisticalfactsaboutyourcounty/waterford/

Max Powers

i cant believe people are complaining about parking costs in city centre when there are loads of cheap places and other deals. €1 ph in council parking places, cheap as chips. 3.20 for day in railway sq underground as far as i know, maybe its 3.50 still cheap.

spankmemunkey

If i was a business person I would use the empty unit in City Square where the travel agents is as a coffe shop, just for coffee on the go, imagine the smell of coffee wafting through there, It would be in the interest of the city square owners not have an empty unit, plus theres something inviting about the smell of coffee being brewed, and punters who drink coffee are pepped up:D

This of course is not the answeres to waterfords problems thats just an observation of mine standing around waiting for the other half to come out of holland and barret and im thinking man i could do with a caffeine pep now nice cup of coffe, Thats business opportunity begging to be rolled out, the nearest coffe to go place is ove near the book centre there!

Finnbar01

Daffodil.d wrote: »

I have said this before and people will disagree with me but killKenny are doing something right. Is it th way the shops are all mainly in the same vicinity apart from mc donagh junction.? Cheaper parking? Lower rates?
Also look at city square, it has potential to be a centre hub but there's allegedly 5 stores in there closing this month. There's already 1 empty unit so that will make 6. Are their rates too high? Even with a high unemployment rate people still need to dress themselves and eat.children still grow out of their clothes and need new ones. So that can't be directly blamed.
I always shop locally even if it's not a local company my friends and family may still be employed in certain places. 2 reasons I would be inclined to leave town are marks and spencers and H andM.

Five? That's a lot. Could you name them?

spankmemunkey

Theres the one i said i would use as a coffe shop the old photo place, theres the 2 next shops theres a couple of shops upstairs theres on beside the toilets theres, Theres one where the restaurant is upstairs useto be a game stop and the early learning centre.

Thats 6 empty units, theres a few little bricka brack shops around too whose life span couldnt be that long, selling bags and the like.

angelfalling

We had to close up the attempt on High street a long, long time ago. It was indoor, perfectly located and had a lot of interest from local producers... but the city council could provide no assistance at all and eventually the money ran out. Was a real shame. It's exactly what's needed, the market situation is desperate.

hardybuck

Jason Todd wrote: »

A few things I would like to see:
> A Market 'Hub'... something like the apple market on a bigger scale, stalls, fresh local produce for sale, hand crafted goods etc, and the spaces would be mostly exempt from the high rates that shops suffer.

> Reduce rates even a little bit, or to fill existing spaces offer empty units to the likes of H&M on a short term basis with special rates and see if that boosts trade through town and all going well these places may continue trading.

> I'd like to see something happen with Johnstown / Waterside, it's a waste of space and could be used as a site for a multi-storey carpark which in turn might bring down parking prices elsewhere.

> If parking was centralised in Johnstown / Waterside and the other car park near Newgate St. then maybe some of the space on the Quay could be reclaimed and converted like the Quay in Wexford with some nice walks, benches, the aforementioned stalls etc. Something that would be really impressive as you come over the bridge.

> There needs to be greater communication between pubs, clubs, hotels etc in terms of offers for out-of-towners, really put together packages to entice people for a weekend stay for example. Maybe some sort of local government-led initiative might help this.

In relation to rates, one idea might be to offer new businesses a 12 month rates exemption. This might encourage new start ups or pop up enterprises which seem to be popular in other cities.

The problem with rates is that the local authorities will not negotiate with businesses on reductions. It seems like you can negotiate with everyone except the local authorities. Maybe they can develop some sort of 3 month special exemption which struggling businesses can use once every three years in very limited circumstances which may keep the wolves from the door for some people.

In relation to parking - I'd be a big fan of a park and ride facility. Rather than dragging people over the bridge to the Quay's and Johnstown, I'd be very much in favour of something over on either the Ferrybank or Sallypark directions or both, where a bus goes back and forth to the city centre every 20 or 30 mins.

However, the Waterside facility would bring a lot more footfall into areas like Johnstown, Michael Street and Catherine's St - all of which have great potential. I'd like to have seen that site used for some mixed residential and retail development, but that ship sailed a few years ago I suppose.

Communication between pubs, clubs & hotels - as commercial entities if they'd any cop on they'd be interacting and being proactive themselves. I suppose Bord Failte etc. are there if needed to offer support and advice whatever that is worth. If the local authorities can do anything to help them it will be through festivals like Winterval, Spraoi etc.

spankmemunkey

Theres Actually 7 empty units downstairs in City Square i was in there today, and theres 2 units upstairs,

Ye have 1 empty beside the french cake shop, 2 at the corner opposite Debenhams, Theres the 3+4 next shops, theres 5 the island shop where the photo place use to be, and then theres 6 the early learning centre and the down accross from the hair dressers theres one unit 7 and 8+9 upstairs old game stop and the one beside the toilets.

Ostrom

The website of the all-island research observatory offers a useful visual interface. They are official partners of the CSO also, so the most recent indicators of 2011 should be available.

Daffodil.d

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Five? That's a lot. Could you name them?

The two Next stores, The early learning centre etc etc..spankmemonkey has they all named.But I did hear another one mentioned as well but like I said I won't mention it because it could be just a rumour. Hopefully it is.

Finnbar01

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Theres Actually 7 empty units downstairs in City Square i was in there today, and theres 2 units upstairs,

Ye have 1 empty beside the french cake shop, 2 at the corner opposite Debenhams, Theres the 3+4 next shops, theres 5 the island shop where the photo place use to be, and then theres 6 the early learning centre and the down accross from the hair dressers theres one unit 7 and 8+9 upstairs old game stop and the one beside the toilets.

Thanks Spank, didn't know so many shops closed down in there. It is scary, considering that would be seen as the ideal location to have a shop.

BTW, has the early Learning centre moved or is it completely gone? Is the Next shop still open out in Ardkeen?

spankmemunkey

The ELC is completely gone, well I dont know if the company itself, but its gone from waterford as far as i know, Theres a notice up on the Next shop doors telling customers to go to Ardkeen for your nearest next.

Daffodil.d

Does anyone know what the story is with Argos. There's a rumour going around that it's leaving the town too. Frankly I find it hard to believe, but the town is in such a bad state now anything is possible.

Finnbar01

Daffodil.d wrote: »

Does anyone know what the story is with Argos. There's a rumour going around that it's leaving the town too. Frankly I find it hard to believe, but the town is in such a bad state now anything is possible.

Argos leaving, hmmmm ..... anytime I was in there it was always busy. Mind you though, the last time I was in there was about a year and a half ago.

hardybuck

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Argos leaving, hmmmm ..... anytime I was in there it was always busy. Mind you though, the last time I was in there was about a year and a half ago.

It might be more to do with the quality of the site and the rent which they are paying on it. They may feel they'd be better off in one of the retail parks at the edge of town.

Daffodil.d

hardybuck wrote: »

It might be more to do with the quality of the site and the rent which they are paying on it. They may feel they'd be better off in one of the retail parks at the edge of town.

I hope that's the case. Then again it is always busy , so probably a rumour.