Is this viewpoint racist...or understandable?

average hero

(Disclaimer - I use the term 'black' as only a descriptive term as I do not know who comes from what country in the below scenario. I use it as affectionately as I do the term 'white'. Mods please feel free to close if this thread gets out of hand or incites bad taste)

Long story short, I get a lift home from work with one of my work colleagues from Dublin City Centre every night we are both in work together. Tonight, we were on the way home when a taxi driver pulled out and nearly smashed into our car. My mate got out of the car and shouted 'What the hell are you thinking?' at the driver before receiving a loud 'F*** off' from the occupant of the taxi. Upon returning to our car, he stated 'those black taxi drivers....it's always them'. This surprised me.

Upon asking him his opinion of them, he described the time when his car was scratched (twice) and crashed into (once), all by black taxi drivers. I have been present in two of these occasion. If you are to stand in the main drag in the Dublin 2 area, you will witness some atrocious driving from taxi drivers who are black.

We are both extremely friendly with different black guys who come into the place where we work, so he doesn't seem racist, also he works alongside African, Asian and South American colleagues too.

He basically does not like black taxi drivers at all (due to past experiences, and interactions with) - is he racist in saying so?

I am on the fence as to whether he has a point, I am giving it deeper thought before subscribing to an opinion.

TL;DR - Work colleague has bad experiences with black taxi drivers (as opposed to black work colleagues), therefore has low opinion of them (the taxi drivers) - is this racist?

syklops

I wouldn't worry about it. Alot of people on boards hate taxi drivers full stop, regardless of colour.

tdv123

Yeah it's pretty racist alright.

Kylo Ren

You'd think in this day and age we'd of moved past this sort of bigoted thinking. Your friend is doing nothing but projecting prejudiced views and quiet frankly I'd begin to look for a new friend.

It's the bloody 21st century, in a western country that should be tolerant to these people as other countries were tolerant to the people of this country throughout the years.

Makes me sick. Taxi drivers are people too.

kneemos

I would say so as that sort of driving may be perfectly normal where they come from,plus it's probably the same handful of drivers in that area.

WoollyRedHat

Personally I hate black runners, all of them.

actuallylike

This won't end well I'd imagine. I think your mate probably has a problem with Nigerian/African taxi drivers instead of just 'black' taxi drivers. He can't 100% say they're Nigerian beacause he doesn't know for sure so he just uses 'black'. I doubt if he got a taxi in New York and the driver was black he'd have a problem with it. The problem then goes towards is he prejudiced against Nigerian taxi drivers? Quite possibly so. I personally have no problem with them but I have friends who don't hold any racist views but would prefer not to get in a black guys car due to their poor experience with them in the past. Do these problems stem from the colour of the driver's skin? Absolutely not. Do they stem from a culture in Nigeria? Possibly. Do these problems stem from Nigerians been possibly inexperienced on Irish roads. More than likely. I can't help but think if the population of Nigeria was predominantly white, would people speak out about what they feel more. So in short, your friend is lazily labelling poor taxi drivers as black. I'm sure he's not racist (ask him if he'd accept a black taxi driver in London or NYC) but he could do better with the generalisations.

ascanbe

I happen to be up and reading this, for some reason, so, kinda against my better judgement, i'll respond.

Taken at face value, just as i take this thread, your friend, you say, had some bad experiences with some taxi-drivers who happened to be black.

Are you asking if that means that all black taxi-drivers are bad taxi-drivers/people?

If so, then clearly not.

Just like many people may have had bad experiences with taxi-drivers who weren't black and it wouldn't reflect on other taxi-drivers or people who you could link to them, in some way.

Glad to be of service.

faceman

Yes OP, that is very much racism.

Kylo Ren

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Not to stereotype or anything but don't a lot of Dublin taximen have a problem with black drivers?

Chuck Stone

Black driver = bad.
Mixed race driver = average.
White drivers = excellent.

That's how it works doesn't it?

average hero

Thanks for the replies people - AND FOR KEEPING IT (somewhat) MATURE! I can see the general consensus being that he is fairly racist for the views that he holds.

To give my reasons for posing the conundrum was that he has had bad experiences with black taxi drivers. He has black friends in work and shows no sign of being a bigot or racist but does have the viewpoint that black taxi drivers are generally ruder, worse drivers and have caused him all sorts of grief.(Unfortunately, I was present in two of the occasions of car damaging).

If he has had all of this grief, is he not entitled to a CERTAIN amount of disgruntlement? Saying if Roma gypsy people or Unionists in the North, or those 'crazy goshdarn Yanks' gave you grief and you held an opinion regarding them, would you not be understood in holding a certain amount of disgruntlement?

Thanks for the maturity

Killer Wench

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Not to stereotype or anything but don't a lot of Dublin taximen have a problem with black drivers?

Yes. One of my classmates wrote their dissertation on this. If I remember correctly, I believe some of the unions or associations would not accept black drivers at one time (not sure if that has changed). Black drivers would be blocked from getting in line at the Taxi Stands.

average hero

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Not to stereotype or anything but don't a lot of Dublin taximen have a problem with black drivers?

In my opinion, yes, yes they do. However are they all racist against black taxi drivers or black people? Perhaps they would have a problem against a load of lads from England, or Germany or Derry or wherever an identifiable group of people came from?

Does it mean they are intolerant of black people full stop, or are they intolerant against a people they are unaccustomed to taking their business? If the latter - are their attitudes racist?

DEFTLEFTHAND

average hero wrote: »

In my opinion, yes, yes they do. However are they all racist against black taxi drivers or black people? Perhaps they would have a problem against a load of lads from England, or Germany or Derry or wherever an identifiable group of people came from?

Does it mean they are intolerant of black people full stop, or are they intolerant against a people they are unaccustomed to taking their business? If the latter - are their attitudes racist?

I think you got it there in this post. As well of course the deregulation of the industry has born many ill feelings.

Lapin

syklops wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about it. Alot of people on boards hate taxi drivers full stop, regardless of colour.

Yep. Its the safest option.

If you hate them all equally, you can't be accused of discrimination between one taxi driver and another.

IM0

there is a difference between making generalisations and being racist. if he was racist he would be treating work colleagues with similar racist ****, but he not so its NOT racism just sterotyping

Czarcasm

average hero wrote: »

(Disclaimer - I use the term 'black' as only a descriptive term as I do not know who comes from what country in the below scenario. I use it as affectionately as I do the term 'white'. Mods please feel free to close if this thread gets out of hand or incites bad taste)

Long story short, I get a lift home from work with one of my work colleagues from Dublin City Centre every night we are both in work together. Tonight, we were on the way home when a taxi driver pulled out and nearly smashed into our car. My mate got out of the car and shouted 'What the hell are you thinking?' at the driver before receiving a loud 'F*** off' from the occupant of the taxi. Upon returning to our car, he stated 'those black taxi drivers....it's always them'. This surprised me.


Upon asking him his opinion of them, he described the time when his car was scratched (twice) and crashed into (once), all by black taxi drivers. I have been present in two of these occasion. If you are to stand in the main drag in the Dublin 2 area, you will witness some atrocious driving from taxi drivers who are black.

We are both extremely friendly with different black guys who come into the place where we work, so he doesn't seem racist, also he works alongside African, Asian and South American colleagues too.

He basically does not like black taxi drivers at all (due to past experiences, and interactions with) - is he racist in saying so?

I am on the fence as to whether he has a point, I am giving it deeper thought before subscribing to an opinion.

TL;DR - Work colleague has bad experiences with black taxi drivers (as opposed to black work colleagues), therefore has low opinion of them (the taxi drivers) - is this racist?

This being the FOURTH time your friend has had a near miss or an incident with another motorist of any color or occupation- I'd say it was high time he took a look at his OWN driving skills, or lack thereof.

If the issue of black taxi drivers causing incidents like what happened to your friend, not once, but FOUR times, there's a statistical improbability there that would have been highlighted long ago!

It also sounds like your friend is a bit of a hot head the way he'd actually get out of his car to berate another motorist when he wasn't even hit!

TL;DR? You're probably safer all round to get the bus home from work. That way you reduce your risk of being involved in an accident caused by your friend, you won't have to listen to his shìte talk, and you also reduce the risk of your friend one day picking on the wrong person to roar abuse at and thereby getting you involved in his nonsense!

Gauss

As a fellow racist I concur that he is also a racist. He discriminates based on race, that by definition is racist which may or may not be immoral.

Hippies!

He's merely stating the facts as he sees them and happens to be fairly accurate in what he says too. I didn't realise incidents like this were so common among Nigerian taxi drivers :eek: seen quite a few incidents myself but can't recall any from our own home grown taxi spuds. What does that tell us?

RUSTEDCORE

average hero wrote: »

(Disclaimer - I use the term 'black' as only a descriptive term as I do not know who comes from what country in the below scenario. I use it as affectionately as I do the term 'white'. Mods please feel free to close if this thread gets out of hand or incites bad taste)

Long story short, I get a lift home from work with one of my work colleagues from Dublin City Centre every night we are both in work together. Tonight, we were on the way home when a taxi driver pulled out and nearly smashed into our car. My mate got out of the car and shouted 'What the hell are you thinking?' at the driver before receiving a loud 'F*** off' from the occupant of the taxi. Upon returning to our car, he stated 'those black taxi drivers....it's always them'. This surprised me.

Upon asking him his opinion of them, he described the time when his car was scratched (twice) and crashed into (once), all by black taxi drivers. I have been present in two of these occasion. If you are to stand in the main drag in the Dublin 2 area, you will witness some atrocious driving from taxi drivers who are black.

We are both extremely friendly with different black guys who come into the place where we work, so he doesn't seem racist, also he works alongside African, Asian and South American colleagues too.

He basically does not like black taxi drivers at all (due to past experiences, and interactions with) - is he racist in saying so?

I am on the fence as to whether he has a point, I am giving it deeper thought before subscribing to an opinion.

TL;DR - Work colleague has bad experiences with black taxi drivers (as opposed to black work colleagues), therefore has low opinion of them (the taxi drivers) - is this racist?

NOT RACIST
HE bases his opinion on personal statistical fact that taxi drivers of that ethnic group are not as good as others.There may be basis to back up his theory as these would mostly be people who are not from this nation and lack knowledge of laws/rules or have exhibit different cultural behavior.

Example: If an african militia came to Ireland and killed 100 irish people we would hate them even if we really liked african people.We hate a specific group of these people due to membership in such an evil group this does not make us racist as the race does not cause our hatred it is the actions of the group not their nationality or skin colour. We would hate any other nationality or group who took the same actions.We woud even hate irish who killed irish.

kneemos

RUSTEDCORE wrote: »

NOT RACIST
HE bases his opinion on personal statistical fact that taxi drivers of that ethnic group are not as good as others.There may be basis to back up his theory as these would mostly be people who are not from this nation and lack knowledge of laws/rules or have exhibit different cultural behavior.

Example: If an african militia came to Ireland and killed 100 irish people we would hate them even if we really liked african people.We hate a specific group of these people due to membership in such an evil group this does not make us racist as the race does not cause our hatred it is the actions of the group not their nationality or skin colour. We would hate any other nationality or group who took the same actions.We woud even hate irish who killed irish.

But the op's friend is lumping in all black drivers not a paticular group.

phill106

Perhaps he was just against the drivers of black taxi's?

im invisible

Its understandably racist.

miamee

If they had all been white taxi drivers with green eyes, I doubt he'd be ranting about all those green-eyed taxi drivers being the same. It's inappropriate stereotyping at best as pointed out earlier.

Also as someone else has pointed out, the only common denominator in these incidents is your friend, he might want to take a look at his own driving and observation skills.

RUSTEDCORE

kneemos wrote: »

But the op's friend is lumping in all black drivers not a paticular group.

It is reasonable to assume that foreign nationals who have less knowledge of our country and its rules do not have equal ability to Irish taxi drivers.

It was a generalisation but im sure if he asked his friend... do you think a black person is capable of being a good driver or is it impossible... his friend would say sure.

We would call all knives sharp but I can buy a knife or even a samurai sword which is as blunt as a spoon.

Even if he did mean that all black people are bad drivers there may be evidence to back up such a theory if he means comparatively to caucasians. I cannot say whether it is true or not but their brain chemistry is believed to be slightly different as is a 18 year old males to a 18 year old females and insurance companies use this information.

BBDBB

Racists - a great bunch of lads

Ed Winchester

im invisible wrote: »

Its understandably racist.

There's no such thing as understandable racism.

RUSTEDCORE

One of the leading theories is that colder climates tend to select for higher intelligence. You simply need more brainpower to create more advanced clothing, tools and infrastructure in order to thrive in colder temperatures.

secondrowgal

Lapin wrote: »

Yep. Its the safest option.

If you hate them all equally, you can't be accused of discrimination between one taxi driver and another.

Taxi-ist!!!

mark renton

Keno 92 wrote: »

Makes me sick. Taxi drivers are people too.

Yes they are people too, its just that they are people who are a danger to others on the roads.

BBDBB

secondrowgal wrote: »

Taxi-ist!!!

arent they the ones who stuff dead animals?

mark renton

miamee wrote: »

Also as someone else has pointed out, the only common denominator in these incidents is your friend, he might want to take a look at his own driving and observation skills.

Methinks you may have missed the other common denominator.

kneemos

Looks like the racists have woken up.

mfceiling

I'm always a bit wary around taxi drivers full stop.

Many of them straddle 2 lanes in dublin, stop suddenly and don't bother with indicators.

I'm also very wary around large black women drivers having almost been written off a few times by them. 2 times in particular stand out - people carriers with kids not buckled in. Once on the N7 when she went straight across the lanes with no indicators or looking in the mirrors - scared the sh*t out of me!!

Don't know if that makes me a racist or not?

Gauss

Ed Winchester wrote: »

There's no such thing as understandable racism.

What's so difficult to understand about it, a ten year old can understand it, this isn't quantum mechanics we're talking about.

Separately what racism is, is discrimination based on race. If a person's race affects your decisions or beliefs about that person then you are racist. I am a racist, I believe a person who is black is more likely to win the 100m final. I use ethnic origin as a discriminant in determining some of my beliefs therefore I am racist.

mark renton

kneemos wrote: »

Looks like the racists have woken up.

A lot of people who use this word dont actually know what it means - would you be in this category?

ToddyDoody

If we decide he is a bit racist what do we do then?

BBDBB

first we get him drunk, then take him for pizza and try to see up his skirt with a camera phone..........

kneemos

john47832 wrote: »

A lot of people who use this word dont actually know what it means - would you be in this category?

I don't believe in categories.

9959

average hero wrote: »

Thanks for the replies people - AND FOR KEEPING IT (somewhat) MATURE! I can see the general consensus being that he is fairly racist for the views that he holds.

To give my reasons for posing the conundrum was that he has had bad experiences with black taxi drivers. He has black friends in work and shows no sign of being a bigot or racist but does have the viewpoint that black taxi drivers are generally ruder, worse drivers and have caused him all sorts of grief.(Unfortunately, I was present in two of the occasions of car damaging).

If he has had all of this grief, is he not entitled to a CERTAIN amount of disgruntlement? Saying if Roma gypsy people or Unionists in the North, or those 'crazy goshdarn Yanks' gave you grief and you held an opinion regarding them, would you not be understood in holding a certain amount of disgruntlement?

Thanks for the maturity

"posing a conundrum" is stretching it a little, your friend may not be a boorish 'send them all back' type, but the viewpoint that "black taxi drivers are generally ruder" is a racist one.

mikemac1

If it comes to punches the person who gets out of the car first will get blamed.

By all means let your friend call out a dodgy driver, your friend can roar all he wants.

Just be careful getting out of the car.

The gardaí and legal eagles would nail you for it

mark renton

ToddyDoody wrote: »

If we decide he is a bit racist what do we do then?

lol, this is ah dude, there are only 2 rules in AH

(1) Decisions are never made in AH
(2) Nothing ever gets "done" in AH



Oh yea, we dont ever talk about AH

Gauss

kneemos wrote: »

I don't believe in categories.

I don't believe in trees.

mark renton

kneemos wrote: »

I don't believe in categories.

So you are discriminating against me because I believe in categories?

MagicMarker

IM0 wrote: »

there is a difference between making generalisations and being racist. if he was racist he would be treating work colleagues with similar racist ****, but he not so its NOT racism just sterotyping

Stereotyping on the basis of race is racism.

Ed Winchester

Gauss wrote: »

What's so difficult to understand about it, a ten year old can understand it, this isn't quantum mechanics we're talking about.

Separately what racism is, is discrimination based on race. If a person's race affects your decisions or beliefs about that person then you are racist. I am a racist, I believe a person who is black is more likely to win the 100m final. I use ethnic origin as a discriminant in determining some of my beliefs therefore I am racist.

What did I say I didn't understand? A ten year old could see that's not what I said. But feel free to rattle off any old stuff and say it isn't quantum physics to make yourself feel clever.

Motivator

average hero wrote: »

We are both extremely friendly with different black guys who come into the place where we work, so he doesn't seem racist, also he works alongside African, Asian and South American colleagues too.

Can I have a large Big Mac meal with a coke please?

kneemos

Gauss wrote: »

I don't believe in trees.

You can't swing from a catagory.

kneemos

john47832 wrote: »

So you are discriminating against me because I believe in categories?

No.