Career breaks to be offered to Gardai

King Ludvig

It has been reported that a serious lack of money in the Garda payroll means the force must shed a large part of its work division.

According to reports in today's Irish Independent, career breaks of up to three years will be offered to gardai, in an effort to cut 1,000 jobs.

A cash shortage as a result of €25m in cutbacks means there is only enough money to pay 12,500 gardaí in a workforce of 13,417.

Senior members of the gardaí believe they can not make up the shortfall in garda numbers through retirement.

As part of the career break deal, a lump sum taxable amount of €30,000 will be offered, with a guarantee the job is kept open after the three-year duration.

They would still be subject to garda disciplinary regulations, so not be permitted to work for security firms.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/career-breaks-aimed-at-reducing-garda-numbers-by-1000-580060.html


Only enough in the purse to pay 12,500?? More bad news for hopes of future recruitment.

audidiesel

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cuts-force-gardai-to-look-at-shedding-1000-officers-3342978.html

It's almost entertaining watching how much a mess these clowns are making of the country....

Shield

Let's hope Obama or Lizzy don't plan on making another trip over any time soon!

Tefral

Gardai are stretched as it is. The eegits are cutting out the wrong things. Why don't they cut their big wage and pensions to pay for the 1000 Gardai.

It's poor fools like us who if we get robbed it takes the Gardai ages to come out to a house because they have no car.

It's ok though, there is enough to pay ministers high wages and more into their pensions if they get re-elected.

gbee

Shield wrote: »

Let's hope Obama or Lizzy don't plan on making another trip over any time soon!

Don't worry, the money for that would magically appear as if a Leprechaun donated it from his hidden stash.

gbee

gbee wrote: »

Don't worry, the money for that would magically appear as if a Leprechaun donated it from his hidden stash.

It didn't the last time. Came out of the ordinary budget. And when they realised how much it cost had to find money for it.

MOC1972

audidiesel wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cuts-force-gardai-to-look-at-shedding-1000-officers-3342978.html

It's almost entertaining watching how much a mess these clowns are making of the country....

How is it almost entertaining the way what clowns have made a mess of the country are people's memories that sort Maybe Bertie has something in his sock drawer that will cover the short fall.

ectoraige

MOC1972 wrote: »

How is it almost entertaining the way what clowns have made a mess of the country are people's memories that sort Maybe Bertie has something in his sock drawer that will cover the short fall.

I wonder how many applicants they'll have - 10,000? I feel sorry for those that don't get it, morale seems so low.

flutered

the criminals are laughing all the way to the south of spain.

juan.kerr

audidiesel wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cuts-force-gardai-to-look-at-shedding-1000-officers-3342978.html

It's almost entertaining watching how much a mess these clowns are making of the country....

There's only so much in the pot. Unless we should borrow unsustainably for day to day spending.

I agree that it would be better if these necessary cuts came from the HSE or another department though.

catallus

MOC1972 wrote: »

How is it almost entertaining the way what clowns have made a mess of the country are people's memories that sort Maybe Bertie has something in his sock drawer that will cover the short fall.

Yes. It's Fianna Fail that did the damage, the clowns are in the backrow laughing at the mess they have created. Unfortunately it's the present bunch that have to deal with the fallout. We must never ever forget who got us into this situation.

juan.kerr

juan.kerr wrote: »

There's only so much in the pot. Unless we should borrow unsustainably for day to day spending.

I agree that it would be better if these necessary cuts came from the HSE or another department though.

Because they aren't in a bad enough situation as it is.

listermint

catallus wrote: »

Yes. It's Fianna Fail that did the damage, the clowns are in the backrow laughing at the mess they have created. Unfortunately it's the present bunch that have to deal with the fallout. We must never ever forget who got us into this situation.

Any we must never forget who has broken all of there election promises and continues on with the same policys.

More of the same

juan.kerr

foreign wrote: »

Because they aren't in a bad enough situation as it is.

Who, the HSE? Just because they (over) spend their budget doesn't mean we get value for it. Check the Irish Independent this morning - the story about the Chef without a kitchen to cook in may enlighten you.

Throwing good money after bad isn't the solution.

juan.kerr

listermint wrote: »

Any we must never forget who has broken all of there election promises and continues on with the same policys.

More of the same

What would you do differently? And please don't say 'burn the bondholders' as that won't fix the deficit.

catallus

The two elephants in the room as far as I'm concerned are

1) The massive Social Welfare outgoings.

2) The outrageous levels of legal aid being offered to repeat criminal offenders.

juan.kerr

catallus wrote: »

The two elephants in the room as far as I'm concerned are

1) The massive Social Welfare outgoings.

2) The outrageous levels of legal aid being offered to repeat criminal offenders.

3) The Croak Park surrender.

listermint

catallus wrote: »

The two elephants in the room as far as I'm concerned are

1) The massive Social Welfare outgoings.

2) The outrageous levels of legal aid being offered to repeat criminal offenders.

lack of qango reduction

MOC1972

listermint wrote: »

Any we must never forget who has broken all of there election promises and continues on with the same policys.

More of the same

The current guys for sure are making mistakes election promises.
But the banks couldn't even tell how much of a bail out they needed.
My feelings run deep on this mess but the current government inherited
it.
I feel sorry for the older people living alone and reading the headlines.

King Ludvig

Well this thread derailed quickly!

I wonder how many will take up this career break? In the past wasn't there a situation where guys who'd been on a career break had to buy back years?

If you've got 20 years in the job, when you get back from your 3 year break, you've still got 10 to go...just means you're prolonging the time till you have the option of retiring.

pa990

we can't even avail of the full complement of a/l with current staffing levels.

how on earth will we operate with people taking a year off, on top of the expected natural attrition of retirements, resignations and dismissals.

I've carried over leave every year. this year I planned and actively tried to take all my leave and what was carried over, but I actually will have more leave to carry than I did last year.

it's madness, career breaks should have been offered during the boom, when we had the personnel.

having said all of that I wouldn't begrudge anyone availing of a break.

I know one guy that is using the one year break to try out the Australian police force, and if it doesn't work out, at least he'll have a job to come back to.

pa990

King Ludvig wrote: »

Well this thread derailed quickly!

I wonder how many will take up this career break? In the past wasn't there a situation where guys who'd been on a career break had to buy back years?

If you've got 20 years in the job, when you get back from your 3 year break, you've still got 10 to go...just means you're prolonging the time till you have the option of retiring.

I agree, I know a guy that retired a few years ago, and he was working back 3yrs that he took off a long long time ago.
and although he was glad he took the time off, he always questioned if it was really worth it, due to the monumental changes that took place in his final 5years that really changed the whole mentality and moral of the force.

msg11

My experience on career breaks. It dose not mean extra work, it literally means one less body. That may sound odd but its not extra work cause it is now your work on top of your extra work IE, they don't go any easier on you !

Why don't they start offering part time work in the Garda only short of it at this stage.

3 Years career break seems excessive, we range from 1 month to 1 year.

Also just cause you apply for the break dose not mean you will get it either.

Bosh

Shield wrote: »

Let's hope Obama or Lizzy don't plan on making another trip over any time soon!

He is, G4 near Enniskillen later this year, I'm sure it will require a major operation this side of the border.

The career break idea would actually work in the Governments favour in one way.

Say 500 (unlikely I know) take it up. Three years time 500 fully trained members are back onstream to fill retirements that took place in that time.

No recruiting, no training.

audidiesel

Bosh wrote: »

The career break idea would actually work in the Governments favour in one way.

Say 500 (unlikely I know) take it up. Three years time 500 fully trained members are back onstream to fill retirements that took place in that time.

No recruiting, no training.

with the garda siochana act, there are very few job types members could take up. that means anyone that takes this effectively has to emigrate.

if they did and got a job in another country, why in gods name would they come back here. the force is an absolute joke the last few years and its only going to get worse.

after tax, this is probably worth around 7k a year. youd get more on the dole. hell if you went sick and were on half pay youd get more than that.

if they bring it in and if its taken up, everyone in the countryside should definately invest in a shotgun. hell they should probably have one already.

pah

I wish. I wonder would the CU freeze my loans for 3 years

WilcoOut

the tax payer is going to love having 1000 of their employees sitting at home at 30k a pop!

repsol

Why doesn't AGS expand the job sharing scheme? There are only approx 100 on it at present.I am sure a lot of young mums would take it up and it would not cost them as they would save on creches etc.I saw on another thread a pic of 58 new Audi cars ready for EU presidency.I assume Gardai will be driving them,another drain on resources.Can anyone in AGS tell me if the Garda band do any real Garda work or just play in the band.

goldie fish

WilcoOut wrote: »

the tax payer is going to love having 1000 of their employees sitting at home at 30k a pop!

They don't get paid full pay during a career break,. That is the point of the whole career break, to save the wage bill.

Or are you another one who reads the thread title and wades in with an anti PS rant?

goldie fish

repsol wrote: »

Why doesn't AGS expand the job sharing scheme? There are only approx 100 on it at present.I am sure a lot of young mums would take it up and it would not cost them as they would save on creches etc.I saw on another thread a pic of 58 new Audi cars ready for EU presidency.I assume Gardai will be driving them,another drain on resources.Can anyone in AGS tell me if the Garda band do any real Garda work or just play in the band.

Oh ffs. Another one.

What bridge do you usually live under?

ectoraige

One point to note, if it's like other public sector career break schemes there will be a clause that after the three years are up, a member may have to wait up to twelve months for a position to become available. So the reality could be that members may actually be out for four years.

The Independent also made mention of the possibility of secondment to Revenue and Social Protection to fight tax and welfare fraud as another way to cut the Garda wage bill. What are members' views on this idea?

repsol

goldie fish wrote: »

Oh ffs. Another one.

What bridge do you usually live under?

Whats your problem? I offered a perfectly viable alternative to save money (job sharing) and asked a question in relation to the band because I don't know the answer.If you don't have an answer or something to add,crawl back under your stone.

Potential-Monke

I'd possibly take the break if i could freeze mortgage and loan repayments. Would check out Oz and see how that would suit, and if i got the police over there and it suited, i wouldn't be coming back. Maybe that's what they're hoping.

However, like many (possibly the majority of) members in the force, i have a mortgage, and loans, and 30k wouldn't last a year paying them back. It'll be interesting to see if anyone takes this, and if they don't, what will happen then?

Either way, the public are losing out again. Prepare for even worse response times, even less follow-ups, and increased crime.

are you serious

I was talking to one of the lads last night he's heard its 30(taxed) then 12k per year...
Another addition to this is that when you come back you must sign up to the lower wage bracket which is being proposed for any new recruits.
(No idea if any truth in either)

I'd love a go at it to see what else is out there to do, I have an idea of something else that I would be interested doing all depends on the T&C's of the 3 year break.

CuteStuff

I really can't see anyone taking up this offer. Most of us have families and bills and mortgages to think of.

It's terrible we have to find out about these things from the newspapers. I'd love to know the ins and outs of it. Like if you did take the break, when you come back, would you go back to the station you were in? That's if it hadn't closed down in your absence

WilcoOut

goldie fish wrote: »

They don't get paid full pay during a career break,. That is the point of the whole career break, to save the wage bill.

Or are you another one who reads the thread title and wades in with an anti PS rant?

i know they dont get full pay, where did i state that they did?

and whats anti PS about my comment?

i just stated, that i doubt the taxpayer wont be happy with 1000 employees sitting at home after a 30k lump - even if it does save wages

unichall

WilcoOut wrote: »

i know they dont get full pay, where did i state that they did?

and whats anti PS about my comment?

i just stated, that i doubt the taxpayer wont be happy with 1000 employees sitting at home after a 30k lump - even if it does save wages

Why would the taxpayer mind.

- Wages over 3 years for 1,000 Gardai - €105million

- Wages over 3 years for 1,000 on career break - €30million

- State saves €75million over 3 years

Plus the strategy is to reduce the numbers to 13,000 and by offering the career break they attain these numbers quicker at less expense. So with the rough numbers above to hand please explain why the taxpayer would be unhappy?

repsol

WilcoOut wrote: »

i know they dont get full pay, where did i state that they did?

and whats anti PS about my comment?

i just stated, that i doubt the taxpayer wont be happy with 1000 employees sitting at home after a 30k lump - even if it does save wages

The "taxpayer" as you call them won't be happy until every PS worker is on minimum wage with no pension.Its not going to happen though!

WilcoOut

unichall wrote: »

Why would the taxpayer mind.

- Wages over 3 years for 1,000 Gardai - €105million

- Wages over 3 years for 1,000 on career break - €30million

- State saves €75million over 3 years

Plus the strategy is to reduce the numbers to 13,000 and by offering the career break they attain these numbers quicker at less expense. So with the rough numbers above to hand please explain why the taxpayer would be unhappy?

because they will be perceived as sitting at home on the taxpayers coin

or being educated on the tax payers cent

or double jobbing at the leisure of the exchequer - even if its making a saving. its a bad idea that will backfire IMO

its cheaper to pay people to sit at home than have them working - very irish

instead of reforming the way AGS works, theyre goin backward and sending them home. they should be making savings from increase in prodcutivity not spending money on no productivity!

and for the record, my bread is buttered on the side of AGS

AlekSmart

repsol wrote: »

The "taxpayer" as you call them won't be happy until every PS worker is on minimum wage with no pension.Its not going to happen though!

Ackshully,I believe most ordinary "Taxpayers" are far too preoccupied with simply takin care of business to be bothered about doin down the Public Sector at all.

However,this has not prevented a small but well connected grouping from achieving maximum airplay for their "Down With This Sort Of (Public Service) Thing"crusade.

Being overpaid or underworked is not a uniquely Irish,or Public Service related fact of life.

Most folks actually have a grip,some others just need to get one

drunkmonkey

For anyone that Joined young in the boom and there were a good lot of them, this is a great opportunity to do a bit of traveling with some money in their back pocket.
There only looking for 1000 people, they should let the younger guys and girls so the brain drain won't be too bad.

repsol

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ackshully,I believe most ordinary "Taxpayers" are far too preoccupied with simply takin care of business to be bothered about doin down the Public Sector at all.

However,this has not prevented a small but well connected grouping from achieving maximum airplay for their "Down With This Sort Of (Public Service) Thing"crusade.

Being overpaid or underworked is not a uniquely Irish,or Public Service related fact of life.

Most folks actually have a grip,some others just need to get one

Who in the PS do you consider overpaid and under worked? Certainly not nurses,Gardai, Firemen, Paramedics and Prison Officers I hope as they are far from being either.

unichall

WilcoOut wrote: »

because they will be perceived as sitting at home on the taxpayers coin

or being educated on the tax payers cent

or double jobbing at the leisure of the exchequer - even if its making a saving. its a bad idea that will backfire IMO

its cheaper to pay people to sit at home than have them working - very irish

instead of reforming the way AGS works, theyre goin backward and sending them home. they should be making savings from increase in prodcutivity not spending money on no productivity!

and for the record, my bread is buttered on the side of AGS

Well thats your opinion i suppose but i cant see how the public wont be happy with saving money, however it is achieved

Canyon86

As stated earlier,

Its a good chance for a youngish copper to catch up with friends and family abroad and such.

but for the majority of Gardai who have commitments such as family,mortgage etc this is not a viable option.

I would have serious concerns about the lack of manpower if the career breaks are implemented..

Firstly for the 1000 short initially but also for afterwards those who decide to pack it in totally for a life in OZ etc

pa990

I'm going slightly ot here, but the reduction in Garda numbers will in my eyes lead to more privatization of Garda rolls.

speeding is already privatized for the most, add to this possibility of gosafe also monitoring non taxed cars, and sure have some SPECS on the motorway network, that can also do non taxed cars, there won't be much need for a traffic corp.

The expansion of the red light cameras (currently being trialled)

Regular units will be expected to do more Mats, and in order to balance the numbers, a % of the traffic corp could be put back on the regular as the traffic corps job will be automated

ultimately when the regular gets cut beyond the bone, specialized units will be all but abondoned to bring the regular back up to a skeleton crew.

time will tell .

scary times ahead for both Gardai and the public.






(if the career break counted as years of service, they would be over subscribed , because I as sure as hell would take it)I

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There only looking for 1000 people, they should let the younger guys and girls so the brain drain won't be too bad.

lol? If they got rid of 1,000 near retirement, especially if they cleared out upper management, it would do An Garda Siochana a world of good and there would be no brain drain

bk

pa990 privatising low level traffic enforcement seems like a very good and practical idea.

Using a highly and expensively trained Garda to hand out speeding tickets always seemed like a waste to me (outside of boy racers on country roads, etc. obviously).

Same goes for any other roles that can be done cheaper by non Gardai, e.g. take 999 calls, check passports at the airport, etc.

As many trained Gardai should be on the streets, rather then wasted behind desks.

A reduction in specialist units would definitely be bad news.

Another idea that was raised before, was creating a military police force from a portion of the army with the training and laws to assist the Gardai operationally on a daily basis.

Furthermore create a transport police, made up of the existing airport police, plus new recruits to police rail stations, Luas, etc. financed by the transport companies and with the powers of the Gardai, like you have in the UK.

Paulzx

drunkmonkey wrote: »

.
There only looking for 1000 people, they should let the younger guys and girls so the brain drain won't be too bad.

Completely disagree with this statement.

It is vital in an organisation to have a varied demographic. The experience of longer serving members is complemented by the enthusiasim of newer employees. The newer members learn from their older collegues. They won't be learning much on a beach in Australia.

Any organisation works best with a balanced flow of retirements and new hirees. It cannot function if one part of the demographic just up sticks and disappears overnight

The idea of temperarily offloading 1000 Gardai for a few years has to be one of the most harebrained schemes ever to come from any individual holding Ministerial office. James Reilly has taken most of the heat for his cock ups in Health but i consider this up there with anything he has done.

pa990

bk wrote: »

pa990 privatising low level traffic enforcement seems like a very good and practical idea.

Using a highly and expensively trained Garda to hand out speeding tickets always seemed like a waste to me (outside of boy racers on country roads, etc. obviously).

Same goes for any other roles that can be done cheaper by non Gardai, e.g. take 999 calls, check passports at the airport, etc.

As many trained Gardai should be on the streets, rather then wasted behind desks.

A reduction in specialist units would definitely be bad news.

Another idea that was raised before, was creating a military police force from a portion of the army with the training and laws to assist the Gardai operationally on a daily basis.

Furthermore create a transport police, made up of the existing airport police, plus new recruits to police rail stations, Luas, etc. financed by the transport companies and with the powers of the Gardai, like you have in the UK.

I can see your point of view,...
But actual people out doing traffic stops, gathers intelligence and detects more info than any camera.
Sure it wont make as many detections, ie for speed, but it will discover uninsured drivers who may be driving insured cars, and discover what vehicles criminals have access to.
Policing is more and more about intelligence gathering which i turn can lead to more effectiveness when dealing with crime.

Humans will also make a sensible decision of a situation rather than a machine that simply sees black and white.

Remember the Traffic Corp deal with a lot more than just tickets.

Many a time Ambulances and private cars need escorts thru traffic, no camera can do that.

Less and less Gardai will result in a less well off social environment, Gardai do a lot more than people think, call backs to victims of crime, talking to locals, interacting with local businesses the list goes on.
and with out sounding like a broken record.. a camera can't do that.

In time Automation of certain aspects of the job will be the norm, and only then will the public realise how short changed they have been.

It will be argued that automation and outsourcing will release more gardai onto the street, but that is a short term solution, no recruitment, lots of retirements, career breaks, station closures, not purchasing equipment etc will cause more strain, less members and an invisible police force, a perfect environment for crime to infest and multiply.

zapata

I wonder is there any savings to be made to the Garda budget from here:

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/PO%203rd%20Quarter%202012%20-%20Final.pdf


taken from here:

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=55&Lang=1

Nearly 3 million paid to Accenture and Vantage consultants for IT support over 3 months not including hardware which is seperate. That's about €45,000 a day.... :eek: