Practical advice for starting racing?

FrankGrimes

Please bear with me on the long post: I’d really appreciate advice on the practicalities of getting involved in racing and felt it necessary to provide the context on my background, thanks!

I’ve toyed with the idea of racing the past couple of years but haven’t gotten around to it, but having gotten married last year my baby-free time is running out so I want to make the most of this year so I’ve set myself the following goals:
• Win a race, any race (A4 club league, open race, others).
• Complete the Race The Ras (May?).
• Batterstown 40km time-trial route in under 60mins.
• Do La Marmotte course in gold medal time
• Alpe D’Huez time trial in under 60mins (to the Tour de France finish at the very back of the town).

I’m 32, have done plenty of sportives but the extent of my racing experience is 2nd in 4-man Race Around Ireland category, top 50 in Etape Hibernia, and I did an A4 Open race on Paddy’s day last year for the craic after not really being on the bike for months – found it tough but held my own to finish about 20th. When reasonably fit last year, my FTP was around 300w. Target weight is 87kg, 85kg at an absolute stretch. But I’m 94kg right now so starting the year making major diet changes. I think I can reach 330w FTP which at 87kg would give 3.8 w/kg. When fit and getting time to get miles under the belt, stamina is my main strength – my tail-off in power is gradual.

My main problem is my hectic lifestyle: I have a high responsibility and demanding job, am in year 3 of my MBA – due to hand in dissertation in June, captain the Boards.ie soccer team so that’s Tuesday nights out, and do a lot, probably too much, socialising (limiting nights out on the beer is one of my main lifestyle changes for 2013 due to the diet impact, but mainly the fact hangovers now write-off the following day), and I’m trying to get more time to help out babysitting my nephew and niece. So time is at a premium. On paper, typing this out makes the above goals seem mad with that workload, but I’m a big believer that with the right mindset, it’s possible. And I don’t want this season to pass me by.

I work in Sandyford and live in Crumlin, 15km on the bike. But I currently drive to work: often have MBA events in the evening or football. But fewer MBA events hereon out, so will think about commuting. Training-wise, I sometimes go for spins with my mates, but my style on the bike is to go flat out on rolling terrain as much as possible – that’s where I make my ground up on smaller lads faster up the climbs, but it generally means sticking with a group is frustrating and I come home not fully satisfied with the workout. Worth calling out as it’s a consideration for thinking about joining club spins. I’m starting to use my Tacx Fortius VR turbo trainer more now the past few weeks: I can stay motivated to go full gas for an hour (currently 280w but I’ve only recently started back) but struggle with motivation thereafter and numbness kicks in where it ain’t wanted.

Anywho, I felt it necessary to provide that background context before asking advice on whether it’ll be possible to find a club to race with given my circumstances which mean I don’t have that much time available for training and I want to maximise what time I do have available. I’d be fine with helping out with marshalling every so often if that’s expected. So, should I join a club and enter a club league and take it from there? Orwell would be an obvious choice but would be interested to hear thoughts on others too, and also if my circumstances would make my joining be acceptable to the club. What are the general expectations for an A4 racer for training and racing? About 4-5 of my mates will likely start racing too and we’ll all probably join the same club.

I’ve only got one bike at the moment – a Planet X with full Dura Ace and several upgrades (SRM power meter cranks) and I’ve got Dura Ace C24 wheels, Cosmic Carbones clinchers with a PowerTap SL (not mad about these wheels), and some decent Planet X B model wheels. The bike is quite safe in work, but I’m split between getting a second bike for commuting or splashing out (got a tax refund recently) on a new bike for racing. I was thinking of doing 60-90mins turbo sessions in the mornings before work 3 times a week with a 100km spin each weekend, football on Tuesdays, and some weights/core work intermittently. Alternative would be to cycle to work, and get a spin up the mountains on the way home when the evenings get brighter (I have excellent lights but am wary of being up there in the dark as I’ve seen some dodgy drivers).

Diarmuid

If time is a premium you're going to have to do all your training on your own and do quality training. You won't need a whole lot of distance for club and A4 racing and I presume you already have decent endurance from the RAI so focus on your top end power. You have to lose weight and you're tight on time so I'd drop the boozing first, two birds with the one stone. I'd use the commute as training time if I were you extending one end of the commute for training.
I'd also reconsider some of those goals. Some of them are not compatible if you are stuck for time. The first one being La Marmotte and probably the Race the Ras. IMHO.

Lusk Doyle

Don't forget the spend time with the missus requirement also!

Hungrycol

If you can attain goal one then goal three should be a easy.

Join a club, race a full racing season at A4, learn the ropes, give it your all and stay upright. Don't get distracted with other goals.

Beasty

I'll try and ge back on some of the points later on today, but you'll need a TT bike if you want a realistic chance of going under the hour for 40k. Also Batterstown is not particuarly fast - I know guys who can improve their times by around a couple of minutes on one of the fast courses in Ulster - unfortunately I don't think there is a very fast 25m TT course down here.

You did the Boards TT a few years back in 1:08:20. I did my first 25mTT on the Batterstown course with clip-on aerobars in around 1:09 in 2010, but was down to under 1:03 with full TT rig and gear last year - I think I have another minute or so in me, but better conditions could get me down to getting on for 1:01 on that course. Conditions on the day can make a big difference, and hence you may need to do a few before hitting your best time

Diarmuid

Hungrycol wrote: »

If you can attain goal one then goal three should be a easy.

I disagree.

Lumen

Aim low for the win. Club racing is way easier than open.

Don't hang around as the interclub league Orwell is part of is already suffering from restrictions on numbers.

You're a bit of a monster on the bike already. I would forget about FTP improvements, at least as far as specific training is concerned. You have enough of that already to get you round without getting dropped.

Focus on sprinting and 5 minute power. That way you can either attack on the final drag or hang in for the sprint.

Otherwise it's all about race craft which you can't train for, other than maybe joining the weekend race preparation groups.

Hungrycol

Lumen wrote: »

Aim low for the win. Club racing is way easier than open.

I disagree.

Plastik

Certainly the club racing that I've done has been far more intense than any open A4 races.

Beasty

Hungrycol wrote: »

I disagree.

But you are coming from it based on your experience with the Swords League, which has had much more of an "open" field in recent years and some top class riders taking part. I think it may be different this year with limits on numbers and priority being given to club members

FrankGrimes

Wow, big thanks for all the tips, much appreciated.

Lusk Doyle - I knew I was forgetting something on that list of time priorities alright!

@Beasty - yeh you're spot on that Batterstown is far from an easy course to get under the hour on. It's just that it's the only course I've done and I've got unfinished business with it as it's always felt like a tough (given it's always windy there) but achievable goal. You're right on my 68mins in the boards TT. I'll have to dig out my Garmin data, but I do think I've done the course in under 64, maybe 63mins since then. Can't recall if that was using the TT bars I'd bought or not. I think I can make 62/61mins so it's worth giving it a lash as it'll help me progress even if I don't get under 60.

@Lumen - "Focus on sprinting and 5 minute power. That way you can either attack on the final drag or hang in for the sprint." - that's excellent advice, cheers. Will do that, will set a target for 5min power on the turbo and do some intervals. For sprints, I'll have to get out on the road more - there's actually a few stretches on the commute I've used for that in the past. I'm already putting the bike under a lot of stress on the turbo so would be reluctant to push it further there.

Didn't realise there'd be pressure on numbers for racing - is that just with Orwell or all clubs? Is it already too late or still time? Would love to hear thoughts on whether it's ok to join and do a few training spins but more often than not just show up for the races (what nights/days are they generally on?). I don't want a club to feel I'm not pulling my weight (and would be happy to marshall here and there if expected), it's just the reality of my situation that I'm tight for time.

Forgot to mention that the bike fit took me forever to get right, and know I feel it's perfect. That's part of my apprehension in considering buying a new bike, I'd be worried the geometry would be different and it'd affect comfort or power-output. Is that just lazy talk? I adore the Planet X but as I do put down a fair bit of power when pushing it, there is maybe a bit of flex in it so a frame that was more rigid but without extra weight (e.g. some of the Felt frames look very aero and rigid but also look bulkier/heavier to me) would be great. It'd probably take 3-4k to get a bike that I felt was an improvement on my current bike, so would it be worthwhile? My gut feeling is to stick with what I have but not sure if commuting on the bike I use to race would be smart.

daragh_

FrankGrimes wrote: »

should I join a club and enter a club league and take it from there? Orwell would be an obvious choice but would be interested to hear thoughts on others too, and also if my circumstances would make my joining be acceptable to the club.

I joined St. Tiernan's last year with a view to taking part in the Club League. We've got riders who train together a few nights a week and do all the Club Spins as well as people who just show up for races. Once you do your fair share of Marshalling I think there is room for everyone.

petethedrummer

Don't put off giving your first race a go, even if you feel you are not fully fit. There is a lot to be learned and it might whip you into shape a bit quicker.

Lusk Doyle

petethedrummer wrote: »

Don't put off giving your first race a go, even if you feel you are not fully fit. There is a lot to be learned and it might whip you into shape a bit quicker.

Totally agree with this. I did an early open race up between skerries and man o war last year and got destroyed. Woke me up though!

colm_gti

If you're doing the 40km TT on your planet x with aero bars, at least get some shoe covers and a lend of an aero helmet, and a skinsuit if you can, you'd shave a chunk of time off that way. I'd happily lend you my TT bike if it meant you'd get under your 60 minutes, but to be honest you'd probably end up being slower than on your planet x because you'd spend more time trying to get comfortable.

Lumen, with regard to the ICL races, I think it'd be harder to win one of them than an A4 open race. The faster guys always catch up! At least with A4 FrankGrimes would probably ride off the front with power figures like those...

colm_gti

petethedrummer wrote: »

Don't put off giving your first race a go, even if you feel you are not fully fit. There is a lot to be learned and it might whip you into shape a bit quicker.

Well said. I'm also a strong believer in the saying that the best way to get race fit is to race.

FrankGrimes

colm_gti wrote: »

If you're doing the 40km TT on your planet x with aero bars, at least get some shoe covers and a lend of an aero helmet, and a skinsuit if you can, you'd shave a chunk of time off that way. I'd happily lend you my TT bike if it meant you'd get under your 60 minutes, but to be honest you'd probably end up being slower than on your planet x because you'd spend more time trying to get comfortable.

Lumen, with regard to the ICL races, I think it'd be harder to win one of them than an A4 open race. The faster guys always catch up! At least with A4 FrankGrimes would probably ride off the front with power figures like those...

Nice one, very good advice there. I'll give it a few shots with that setup and then I'll know if I can do it on my current bike with a bit more training or if I'll need to go for a tri-bike.


Great pointer about racing early even if not fully fit. In addition to learning early, other benefit is the thought of being kickedout the back if I commit to a race and don't train enough will make it easier to force myself to get the finger out.

Beasty

Someone started a thread on a similar topic a couple of years ago

Maybe you should ask him how he got on;)

You're certainly right about needing something to force you to get your finger out:D

lennymc

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Great pointer about racing early even if not fully fit. In addition to learning early, other benefit is the thought of being kickedout the back if I commit to a race and don't train enough will make it easier to force myself to get the finger out.

i did my first open race last year, and it was the best training ever! It was a 60k a4 race, fairly flat, and a hell of a lot easier than the league races I had done up until then. As Nike say, just do it

getting dropped is part of racing, you will have good and bad days, but as you go through it you will get dropped less and less (at least in my experience)

main thing is to enjoy it

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

Someone started a thread on a similar topic a couple of years ago

Maybe you should ask him how he got on;)

You're certainly right about needing something to force you to get your finger out:D

And we find that the source of the problem is the OP! Brilliant sleuthing beasty!

Beasty

It's actually quite interesting reading through that thread and seeing how much some of those posters have progressed since then - pprendeville, buffalo, manwithaplan and tawfeeredux look like they hadn't even raced at that time - they have all achieved quite a lot in a couple of years. Quite a few more of us had only started that year

FrankGrimes

Wow, that's some quality investigatory work indeed Beasty! I'd completely forgotten about that thread given it was 2.5years ago. My intention wasn't to waste anyone's time with a duplicate request and though some of the info I was after is covered in the old thread (e.g. good info on the 2 Dublin inter-club leagues) there's plenty of specifics I was hoping to get in this thread that aren't covered in the old one (which seems to have been helpful to plenty of folks so at least the input posters offered didn't go to waste).

What happened is soon after posting that thread I got a new job that involved lots of 50-60 hour weeks and frequent travel and the college workload really ramped up (workload on the MBA I'm doing is far beyond that of a Masters) and there was a wedding abroad and an extended honeymoon to plan too. So time got even more scarce thereafter so I actually did a decent job in getting the finger out to do the Race Around Ireland, La Marmotte, several sportives and captain the boards.ie football team to 2 more medals in the interim. I've many flaws but laziness is not one of them. So my circumstances precluded me from following up on racing at the time, and though my circumstances still (with a thesis due in May) aren't what most people would regard as conducive to taking up racing, it at least now seems possible, though it'll take a lot of discipline and planning to fit it in, but I'm now not toying with the idea of racing, I'm signing up.

So it seems the south Dublin club league would be best. There's a lad I know in work involved in another club so I'll chat with him this week so it looks like it'll be either that club or Orwell. For Orwell, do you just show up for a weekend spin then say you want to join and then fill out the club and cycling Ireland forms and then is there a step to get yourself listed for the club league? Is it a free for all in the races or do you get club riders acting together?

On the bike front, do most people go with a dedicated bike for racing separate to their training bike? Reckon I'll start with my current bike and see if there's really a need to get another. And I'll stick my old wheels on the bike when using it for commuting as other than getting dirty, there shouldn't be much wear and tear on the commute, so that's one excuse for not commuting out of the way and puts the question of whether to get a commuter bike (which I know i'd find less fun) to bed.

Glad that I've effectively talked myself into committing to trying racing, looking forward to it.

colm_gti

FrankGrimes wrote: »

There's a lad I know in work involved in another club so I'll chat with him this week so it looks like it'll be either that club or Orwell.

There's also St. Tiernans CC, that daragh_ previously mentioned

FrankGrimes wrote: »

On the bike front, do most people go with a dedicated bike for racing separate to their training bike?

I train and race on one bike, mostly because I'm not allowed another bike in the house :rolleyes: Seemingly 3 bikes is 2 too many....1 road bike that I train and race on, 1 TT bike that I train and (will) race on, and 1 singlespeed bike that I commute on....

Don't worry so much about it, you sound more than strong enough for A4, get out for a race and see where you stand and then go from there

Beasty

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Wow, that's some quality investigatory work indeed Beasty! I'd completely forgotten about that thread given it was 2.5years ago. My intention wasn't to waste anyone's time with a duplicate request and though some of the info I was after is covered in the old thread (e.g. good info on the 2 Dublin inter-club leagues) there's plenty of specifics I was hoping to get in this thread that aren't covered in the old one (which seems to have been helpful to plenty of folks so at least the input posters offered didn't go to waste).

You're not wasting anyone's time at all Frank. It's always useful to have a thread like this around this time of year - it's just I vaguely rememebered we had been here before and couldn't resist;)

Anyway, as I said it is quite interesting to see how some have progresssed with racing since that last thread, and I think that should be incentive enough for you. Hopefully you will now see what can be achieved when you set your mind to it (and you clearly have the wherewithall to do that based on some of your other "achievements") - I guess my only little "dig" is really to say you do need to knuckle down, but if you do I am sure you will do very well at racing.

CillianL

@ Frank Grimes

Some things I learnt from my first season in 2012 I would advise you on

1. Club racing is harder than open racing or vice versa is a vacuous statement.

Club racing is harder than most A4 races if you're riding stratch with people who know how to race and want to attack. Again if you always go limit in club races and think you're great because the big boys are buried by an 8 min handicaps, you'll really be shocked once you do a hard A4 race. Again the course you're on makes a huge difference as well as your capabilities.

2. Have a good finishing kick and you'll be sorted for most A4 races.

3. You've too many goals. First season of racing is a learning process, it will take a few weeks to get an idea of what you're good at and what type of racing suits you. If you want to break 60 mins on a 40k get a tt bike and gear

Lumen

CillianL wrote: »

1. Club racing is harder than open racing or vice versa is a vacuous statement.

Club racing is harder than most A4 races if you're riding stratch with people who know how to race and want to attack

Which club league puts novices in scratch?

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Which club league puts novices in scratch?

I think Swords threatened to put "people we didn't know" into scratch last year because a number of non club riders turned up with no known "pedigree" and sandbagged their way into easier groups.

Having said that it never actually happened to my knowledge, and I'm sure if anyone claimed to be a "novice" it would not have happened even if the league had not been cancelled

The IVCA put new riders into semi-scratch until they can be assessed, but it's not very often that they get complete novices

robs1

Should you judge your standard off times you post on strava. i do most of my cycling around the north county and i look at some of the times guys post and feel judging on my times i would struggle in races.

Lusk Doyle

robs1 wrote: »

Should you judge your standard off times you post on strava. i do most of my cycling around the north county and i look at some of the times guys post and feel judging on my times i would struggle in races.

Tell us who you are on strava / real life and we'll tell you!

padjo5

robs1 wrote: »

Should you judge your standard off times you post on strava. i do most of my cycling around the north county and i look at some of the times guys post and feel judging on my times i would struggle in races.

In general, I would say that your ranking on strava will be no basis for how you would do in an A4 race, for lots of reasons. Unless of course you have KOMs on lots of segments, in which case you've nothin' to worry about!

robs1

Far from any KOM. Lusk Doyle im number 5 on the nags head to naul village segment but again there are only 27 people on the list.

cantalach

FrankGrimes wrote: »

• Alpe D’Huez time trial in under 60mins (to the Tour de France finish at the very back of the town).

Unless you're doing it as part of some event where the way through the town is clearly signed and traffic is being marshaled, it's kinda messy. There are roundabouts, traffic lights and pedestrians. Why not just aim to reach the historic finish line just where you come into the town in 55 minutes. It is a few hundred metres past turn 1 and is where the climb proper ends at the top of a pronounced and most unwelcome little dig. They have a finish line arch permanently erected over the road. When that is seen as the finish, it is a very impressive sounding 8.6% climb. Those extra 2 km to the back of the town are pretty flat and drag down the average to 'only' 7.9%

Arthurdaly

The strava segments do have some merit, if for example you are in the top 10 (or below) of a popular climb (howth, mahon falls, sally gap) then you will most likely be very competive when racing. Or

As regards the op its great having goals etc but there are lots of conflicting attributes required to complete your goals. You want to go up alpe duez in a specific time and win a road race, your weight is most definitely a limiter in terms of alpe duez whilst you will most likely get around most A4 courses and be competitive at the end with your power.

I know guys with huge amounts of determination and commitment to training who have yet to win an open race. You are not going to turn up in April and shock yourself by winning the stamullen GP for example unless you have put some serious time and training in.

You started a thread two years ago and have not progressed since, practical advice? You need to lose weight and spend more time on your bike. Join a club, get involved with the racing section and at the first opportunity race. St tiernans and Orwell are good clubs and run 20+ league races during the year, the league races are great fun and less intimidating than the open races.

Don't get hung up on your goals of winning. My best race last year was getting dropped on a big hill and then working with 3/4 guys to get back onto the break away group.

I've been involved with alot of sports over the years but nothing comes close to bike racing, I've fond memories of last summer riding through torrential rain out in batterstown and winding down to pick debris from face. In fact most of my memories about bike racing are about losing and making mistakes.

Personally I can't wait for next season to start and i'm not thinking about open wins etc, I'm thinking about packing my race bag, fine tuning my bike, meeting up with lads, pushing myself to the absolute limits!

Lusk Doyle

Plus, football is a mugs game. Drop it and come join the real hard men and women!

FrankGrimes

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Plus, football is a mugs game. Drop it and come join the real hard men and women!

Hells no! I love football too much for that...sure I'll have decades left in my when I can still cycle but can't play ball so I'll keep it for now. What I'll do is do a bit of core work on Tuesday mornings and have the match that night, that way it can be part of the cycling training regime.

lennymc

good man frank, dont listen to all them weirdos saying give up football. They are only saying that cos they got picked last as a child

FrankGrimes

Arthurdaly wrote: »

The strava segments do have some merit, if for example you are in the top 10 (or below) of a popular climb (howth, mahon falls, sally gap) then you will most likely be very competive when racing. Or

As regards the op its great having goals etc but there are lots of conflicting attributes required to complete your goals. You want to go up alpe duez in a specific time and win a road race, your weight is most definitely a limiter in terms of alpe duez whilst you will most likely get around most A4 courses and be competitive at the end with your power.

I know guys with huge amounts of determination and commitment to training who have yet to win an open race. You are not going to turn up in April and shock yourself by winning the stamullen GP for example unless you have put some serious time and training in.

You started a thread two years ago and have not progressed since, practical advice? You need to lose weight and spend more time on your bike. Join a club, get involved with the racing section and at the first opportunity race. St tiernans and Orwell are good clubs and run 20+ league races during the year, the league races are great fun and less intimidating than the open races.

Don't get hung up on your goals of winning. My best race last year was getting dropped on a big hill and then working with 3/4 guys to get back onto the break away group.

I've been involved with alot of sports over the years but nothing comes close to bike racing, I've fond memories of last summer riding through torrential rain out in batterstown and winding down to pick debris from face. In fact most of my memories about bike racing are about losing and making mistakes.

Personally I can't wait for next season to start and i'm not thinking about open wins etc, I'm thinking about packing my race bag, fine tuning my bike, meeting up with lads, pushing myself to the absolute limits!

Some decent points, there thanks, hadn't thought about using Strava as a gauge, that'll be interesting to think about, though even if I get to an ideal weight of 85kg (bearing in mind lowest I've been was 81kg years ago when weighing in for boxing with minimal body fat), I'm never going to be a mountain goat so won't be breaking records on climbs above 5%. Long drags around 3-5% gradient play to my strengths so I might benchmark off some of those - which are good for practising 5-min max power threshold too.

I can see how some of the goals look conflicting, though my plan was to focus on different things at different times: e.g. come July my focus will shift to La Marmotte prep (will do in early Sept): I'll still race, but won't be caught up about a win if it hasn't happened by then. Alpe D'Huez in under an hour will be very tough but I think I read something a while back that indicated someone around 87kg could do it in under an hour (normal day) with somewhere about 330-350w FTP. Will try dig it out, but it'll no doubt be very difficult, but it's at least worth aiming for - there's something about joining the sub-hour club for the Alpe that really makes me interested. This is one of the reasons why I do like doing regular 60-min FTP tests - other being I find having an objective measure to benchmark against really helps motivate me. Batterstown in under 40km is one goal I'm not overly bothered by.

Beasty was giving tough love earlier effectively acknowledging that I've done well with the constraints (post 22) I've had to-date but also saying get the finger out, drop the weight and get racing and I appreciated that. But your point "You started a thread two years ago and have not progressed since" lacks balance (maybe you missed that post explaining what's happened in the interim 2-years or maybe you're not familiar with the workload an MBA and regular transatlantic travel involves). Racing regularly before now just was not feasible, though I certainly have made progress in the interim: did very well in the Race Around Ireland, did manage to get one A4 Open race done, times on all Dublin/Wicklow routes & climbs and several sportives has reduced a lot, FTP has increased significantly.

But I totally accept the point about needing to commit to racing for reals and to get the weight down. I've gone into my diet regime which I've used successfully to make target weight before for boxing and cycling events. Once I commit to a goal like I just have done, I'm generally quite disciplined, it's when I'm meandering just doing things out of interest that I can wander from the plan. FTP is now up to 291w which though the ratio is countered by weight being too high, I'm very happy with it as I haven't gotten to that level this early in the year before so it bodes well.

I appreciate that some people might want to race just for the buzz of taking part, and I certainly got a buzz from the race I did last year. Regardless of whether it's boxing, football, or cycling, what I enjoy is competing and pushing myself and my team to the very limits of what I/we can achieve. My motivation is to ensure that I achieve whatever the full extent of my potential allows. If that's a win, great. If my potential is a 10th place and I achieve only 20th, I won't be happy. But if I can only ever make 10th place and I know that's after my squeezing every ounce of potential out of me, I'd be quite happy. That said, my Dad always says 'reach for the stars and you'll at least get off the ground' so until such time as it was to become patently unachievable, my goal will be to aim for a win. Maybe it wasn't clear from the OP, but I meant that I was aiming for any win, including club races, rather than saying open races only.

FrankGrimes

lennymc wrote: »

good man frank, dont listen to all them weirdos saying give up football. They are only saying that cos they got picked last as a child

Hehe, damn straight! Sure it would be a travesty to the beautiful game if my left peg, which has been described (admittedly only by me ) as a cultured left boot, was retired from view of its adoring public (our audiences some times reach the dizzying heights of 3 full peoples....though that does include the ref) too soon!

LeoD

I reckon your best bet is to get a coach - one expert voice telling you what you need to do and when you need to have it done by. Other than that, life won't end as soon as a kid arrives on the scene! You'd swear you've been given 12 months to live with the rush to get all the above done.

Lusk Doyle

LeoD wrote: »

I reckon your best bet is to get a coach - one expert voice telling you what you need to do and when you need to have it done by. Other than that, life won't end as soon as a kid arrives on the scene! You'd swear you've been given 12 months to live with the rush to get all the above done.

What a waste of money. You don't need a coach to do that.

seve65

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Alpe D'Huez in under an hour will be very tough but I think I read something a while back that indicated someone around 87kg could do it in under an hour (normal day) with somewhere about 330-350w FTP. Will try dig it out, but it'll no doubt be very difficult, but it's at least worth aiming for - there's something about joining the sub-hour club for the Alpe that really makes me interested. .

2 people out of 205 on Strava over 85kg did it to the TDF finish under an hour. Go for it There is a guy on there with a power tap did it in 1h3 putting out 323W.

lennymc

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

What a waste of money. You don't need a coach to do that.

different strokes for different folks - some people might be better with a coach than not. its not that bad an idea to get the most from the OP's limited time.

Lusk Doyle

lennymc wrote: »

different strokes for different folks

Do you employ the service of a coach?

RobFowl

I love the fact that some one asking randomers on boards about how to finish A4 races knows how many watts their FTP is....

Sign of the times i suppose :rolleyes:

Beasty

The coach question is an interesting one. I actually enjoy experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. But I also have an analytical mind and am prepared to invest a bit of time to try to understand all the dynamics. Still I'm sure I could benefit from a coach, but tbh am more than happy doing it my own way, but picking up whatever pearls of wisdom I can as I meander along

However I agree with lenny - it's a case of horses for courses and if you are strapped for time, can afford it, and are prepared to do what your coach tells you (I always have my doubts about whether I would actually be disciplined enough), I have little doubt it will help you fulfill your potential. I would use Susie Mitchell as an example - she managed to win a World Masters title in her second year of racing, only 4 months after giving birth to her first child. I know she relied heavily on her coach and was very disciplined in following his advice.

Lusk Doyle

RobFowl wrote: »

I love the fact that some one asking randomers on boards about how to finish A4 races knows how many watts their FTP is....

Sign of the times i suppose :rolleyes:

Just wait till he gets to A3 and looks to you for guidance :-[

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

The coach question is an interesting one. I actually enjoy experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. But I also have an anal mind and am prepared to invest a bit of time to try to understand all the dynamics. Still I'm sure I could benefit from a coach, but tbh am more than happy doing it my own way, but picking up whatever pearls of wisdom I can as I meander along

However I agree with lenny - it's a case of horses for courses and if you are strapped for time, can afford it, and are prepared to do what your coach tells you (I always have my doubts about whether I would actually be disciplined enough), I have little doubt it will help you fulfill your potential. I would use Susie Mitchell as an example - she managed to win a World Masters title in her second year of racing, only 4 months after giving birth to her first child. I know she relied heavily on her coach and was very disciplined in following his advice.

Fixed that for you. See if your "mind" can spot where! :P

FrankGrimes

LeoD wrote: »

I reckon your best bet is to get a coach - one expert voice telling you what you need to do and when you need to have it done by. Other than that, life won't end as soon as a kid arrives on the scene! You'd swear you've been given 12 months to live with the rush to get all the above done.

That's both an interesting suggestion and a very shrewd observation - I probably have been thinking about it like that and it doesn't need to be that way - just don't tell herself that! On the other hand, I rarely do things by halves, so when I commit to something (be it in personal or work life), I at least like to aim big - no harm if I don't get it all done, but pushing for something that's on the limit of what seems achievable definitely motivates me to deal with the bumps in the road along the way. That said, I'll drop the 40km TT as a goal - I'll more use it as a monthly on-the-road FTP test to benchmark against, and the time for the 40km TT will be secondary.

FrankGrimes

Beasty wrote: »

The coach question is an interesting one. I actually enjoy experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. But I also have an analytical mind and am prepared to invest a bit of time to try to understand all the dynamics. Still I'm sure I could benefit from a coach, but tbh am more than happy doing it my own way, but picking up whatever pearls of wisdom I can as I meander along

Yeh I'm kinda like that enjoying the analytical side of things and since my motivation is to realize whatever potential I may have, I do like analysing the data objectively, which I find a much better way of telling me how I'm doing than if the people around me happen to be faster or slower. That said, I only tend to analyse the basics and am sure a coach could find much more insight. I'll have a look at some online coaches - if it's a reasonable cost, I might go for it, but the first one I pulled up from a search was mega money so it'll be hello online training guides instead if that's par for the course!

FrankGrimes

seve65 wrote: »

2 people out of 205 on Strava over 85kg did it to the TDF finish under an hour. Go for it There is a guy on there with a power tap did it in 1h3 putting out 323W.

Wow, I've never really more than glimpsed at Strava, didn't know you could get that sort of data, but that's great info, thanks. Means I'll have to realistically get to 85kg which is doable, just means more determination on the diet front. Getting to 340w or thereabouts which from that looks like it'll be needed to break 60mins will be a big ask, but when I'm sitting on the rocking chair and telling little Tonka Jr. (clearly my first-born will be named Tonka - who's gonna mess with a kid called Tonka?....now I just need to pick a name in case we have a boy...) about it, it'll be worth the extra pain and sacrificing of a few curries along the way.

FrankGrimes

RobFowl wrote: »

I love the fact that some one asking randomers on boards about how to finish A4 races knows how many watts their FTP is....

Sign of the times i suppose :rolleyes:

Yeh, and that should actually be a good thing but it doesn't look like you see it that way. I think I recall posting on it at length back when I bought a powermeter but the key point is that even though I haven't actually gone through a structured training plan based on power yet (and it'll now be very useful for that), I have found it incredibly useful and enjoyable to have real-time power data available. There's been days when it's been miserable weather and I'd have hated being on the bike (and in gales average speed is largely irrelevant for determining how well you're doing, and heart-rate is just meh), but competing against my own average power actually makes it feel like a game and that helps motivate me no end.

A massively overlooked advantage of power meters is that on rolling terrain I previously thought I was doing great when I looked down on a slight downhill and saw 40km/h. Since I got the power meter I now look down, see if I'm slacking off on the power and then kick it up to my threshold (if doing an hour - and over time I learned how much tapering off I should expect over 2,4,8hours and continually pushed that up and up). I don't have the exact figure to hand, but for 24 hours on the bike during the Race Around Ireland (4 x 2am-5am, 4 x 2pm-5pm session), my average wattage was something like 265w - no way would I have built up that level of stamina without using a power meter for a long time beforehand.

So I totally disagree with what seems to be many people out there that seem to view power meters as good only for retrospective analysis or sticking to a structured training plan, they're both fun and useful for pushing yourself no matter what the event (though I can see them being redundant in racing as you clearly can't look down). No doubt once upon a time it was only fancy folk who had any sort of bike computer, but just like those are now pervasive, I do hope that power meters get affordable soon as I think they'll benefit everyone and my view is a rising tide lifts all boats.