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More RSA Drivel......

  • 03-01-2013 11:07am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭


    well, yeah..... an older car is more likely to suffer from mechanical faults, but isn't that why they made the nct yearly for older cars ...so they adressed that, but yet seem to feel the need to roll out more stereotypical drivel ......I guess it keeps them in a job ehhhhh.......


    discuss........


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/road-safety-chiefs-express-concern-at-number-of-old-cars-579796.html

    Concern has been expressed about the number of older cars on Irish roads.

    More than half of all cars on the road are now at least eight years old and are more likely to suffer mechanical problems

    Road safety chiefs are reminding motorists to service and maintain their vehicles regularly.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Not a bad message to put out to be fair; there are an awful lot of motorists who do not even make the minimum amount of effort required to keep their car maintained. The yearly NCT has been a good thing as it means people have no choice but to pay attention to their car; this just reinforces the point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭piston


    As a driver of one of these older death traps, I would like to point out features that my old cars has such as the regular servicing, the full compliment of working lights and the tyres with adequate tread remaining and also point to the number of much newer cars I see daily without these features.

    Also the most dangerous component of any car, young or old is the nut holding the steering wheel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭langdang


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/road-safety-chiefs-concerned-as-number-of-old-bangers-soars-3341565.html
    "Road safety chiefs concerned as number of 'old bangers' soars"

    "we are seeing the results on the side of the road" - seriously? Scaremongering or what. Buy new cars or YOU'LL DIE!

    Most of the time when I see a car with bonnet up, or being taken away on a truck (and not for accident damage, possibly some repo's I suppose) it's a fairly modern car.

    (Apart from a few french models and the regular refilling of BMW 520 coolant, but hey they knew what they were getting themselves in to)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    What a moron.

    He doesn't even say what old is.

    Some aul fella will read that and look outside at his 2 year old Avensis and think its a death trap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Kenny Logins


    MidlandsM wrote: »
    well, yeah..... an older car is more likely to suffer from mechanical faults, but isn't that why they made the nct yearly for older cars ...so they adressed that, but yet seem to feel the need to roll out more stereotypical drivel ......I guess it keeps them in a job ehhhhh.......


    discuss........


    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/road-safety-chiefs-express-concern-at-number-of-old-cars-579796.html

    Concern has been expressed about the number of older cars on Irish roads.

    More than half of all cars on the road are now at least eight years old and are more likely to suffer mechanical problems

    Road safety chiefs are reminding motorists to service and maintain their vehicles regularly.

    Is that the best picture they could find?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    I see the figure of cars 8 years as being old. Well raising VRT and motor tax along with high running costs is not going to encourage people to update their cars.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,312 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    What a moron.

    He doesn't even say what old is.

    Some aul fella will read that and look outside at his 2 year old Avensis and think its a death trap.
    It clearly states 8 years and over :confused:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,316 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    An eight year old car is not an old car - are people mad?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    spurious wrote: »
    An eight year old car is not an old car - are people mad?

    This is Ireland, where any car older than 2008 is considered to be the spawn of the devil...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭Viper_JB


    What's pretty funny about that though is that they seem to imply that cars 8 years old or less require no maintenance :S


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭flutered


    i have a 96 bowley, last year it passed the doe in march, then the nct in october, (1st time).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭flanzer


    Ah yes, this message has been brought to you by the RSA, sponsored by SIMI no doubt


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭piston


    How come an 8 year old car is considered too old and dangerous whereas most of the Ryanair fleet is 30 year old and you just can't coast into the hard shoulder with a Boeing should it stop unexpectedly?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    simples if the irish government want newer cars on the road. make newer cars cheaper. but no


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    I have to laugh at this horse ****e - It is sad that a headline with almost 0 facts to back it up is considered worthy of attention.

    It should read "Poorly maintained cars can be dangerous " - and thats it. How old they are is totally irrelevant unless of course you happen to be looking to flog a few cars.

    RSA is quite simply the SIMI in drag.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    How old they are is totally irrelevant

    Its not really though, is it? An 8 year old car under normal conditions has most likely done (or will shortly do) over 100k miles, which is when parts start to go and regular maintenance becomes more important. They might be pointing out the obvious, and it comes across as scaremongering if you want to see it that way, but there is nothing that is particularly facually incorrect about what they are saying, for the majority of cars anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    piston wrote: »
    How come an 8 year old car is considered too old and dangerous whereas most of the Ryanair fleet is 30 year old and you just can't coast into the hard shoulder with a Boeing should it stop unexpectedly?
    None of ryanairs fleet is that old. When you do a transit, daily , weekly, a, b, c, d check on your car in a more regulated industry than nuclear power , it's not surprising you can get Boeing upwards of 30 years still going.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    i suppose newer cars are more likely to have abs and selection of airbags


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    djimi wrote: »
    Its not really though, is it? An 8 year old car under normal conditions has most likely done (or will shortly do) over 100k miles, which is when parts start to go and regular maintenance becomes more important. They might be pointing out the obvious, and it comes across as scaremongering if you want to see it that way, but there is nothing that is particularly facually incorrect about what they are saying, for the majority of cars anyway.

    Once a car is well maintained it doesn't matter how old it is. Big mileage is a different story but a blanket painting of older stock by age as clapped out rubbish is just plain ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    piston wrote: »
    How come an 8 year old car is considered too old and dangerous whereas most of the Ryanair fleet is 30 year old and you just can't coast into the hard shoulder with a Boeing should it stop unexpectedly?

    The Ryanair fleet is, on average about 4.5 years old, and is one of the youngest in the world.

    I'll have a quick look at figures now, but I firmly believe that the reason the death toll has dropped in recent years is heavily due to newer cars on the roads, rather than some RSA rubbish.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Strangely enough, the 'Statistics' section of the RSA website has no info on accidents caused by mechanical faults on 'old' cars.

    oh yeah, and
    piston wrote: »
    most of the Ryanair fleet is 30 year old
    really?
    Ryanair claims to operate the newest, greenest, and quietest fleet of aircraft in Europe. As of August 2012, the average age of the Ryanair fleet is 4.2 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    a car double the 8 years old isn't an old banger if it has been properly looked after. The car I taxed yesterday for the first time is 13 years old this year , 63000 miles on the clock and near perfect. There are plenty of Rep Mobiles, 2/3 years old with higher mileages which are far more likely to break down imho.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    Once a car is well maintained it doesn't matter how old it is. Big mileage is a different story but a blanket painting of older stock by age as clapped out rubbish is just plain ridiculous.

    Of course it matters. There are parts in a car that will go after a certain length of time no matter how well maintained the car is; 8 years or 100k miles is a fair time frame for people to start becoming aware of these potential issues.

    I think people are making far more of this statement than needs to be made. Its unnecessary perhaps (we all know that the RSA love the sound of their own voice) but they havent exactly said a whole lot wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    piston wrote: »
    How come an 8 year old car is considered too old and dangerous whereas most of the Ryanair fleet is 30 year old and you just can't coast into the hard shoulder with a Boeing should it stop unexpectedly?

    That's just rubbish and hasn't ever been true, they did have a fair few 15-20 year old 737s in the mid 90s due to rapid expansion. I recall their oldest plane is 8 years old and the average around 4.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    nowadays after about 5 years a plane is worth more in parts than as a plane so fleets almost all fleets are getting younger


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Did i stumble into the aviation forum?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    spurious wrote: »
    An eight year old car is not an old car - are people mad?

    It is if it hasn't seen an oil change or a set of brake pads in its life.

    This is the usual people jumping on the lines that suit them so they can get outraged. Why not look at it from the point of view of the bottom line and that they are trying to make sure people maintain their cars properly and not just worry about what fails the NCT and fix that.

    Any car without maintenance will last a few years . It can start getting very dangerous after that. Most people who buy a brand new car will generally get it serviced at least a couple of times, if even just while in warranty.

    EDIT: Just to add in before someone comes in and accuses me of being "rich" because I can afford some big money post motor tax change car like an 08 clio or micra, I own 3 vehicles at the moment. One a 98 Xantia Activa as a project, a 00 Xantia and a 00 Landcruiser commercial. The only one on the road is the LAndcruiser as I cant afford to have 2 cars on the road at the same time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,395 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Is that the best picture they could find?

    Why a UK motorway?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    nig1 wrote: »
    Why a UK motorway?

    no, its not a uk motorway, its the m50 full of vrt dodgers as they can't afford to vrt the car.....:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,624 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    keithob wrote: »
    this is complete and utter sh1te ... check out whom the the directors are and who has pull in the rsa....

    all connected to the motor industry......

    That's a conspiracy theory with not much in the way of facts to back it up. Did you check out the directors' profiles before you posted that?

    Be my guest and name the director(s) who are 'connected with the motor industry', their backgrounds are documented here.....

    http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/About-Us/Meet-the-board/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭piston


    kona wrote: »
    None of ryanairs fleet is that old. When you do a transit, daily , weekly, a, b, c, d check on your car in a more regulated industry than nuclear power , it's not surprising you can get Boeing upwards of 30 years still going.

    I stand corrected. I was going by what I was told by someone who used to work at Glasgow airport a few years ago and the Ryanair fleet was the butt of everyone's jokes at the time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    they are trying to make sure people maintain their cars properly

    That would make perfect sense, but the headline is 'Road safety chiefs express concern at number of old cars' not 'Road safety chiefs express concern at number of cars not being maintained properly'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    piston wrote: »

    I stand corrected. I was going by what I was told by someone who used to work at Glasgow airport a few years ago and the Ryanair fleet was the butt of everyone's jokes at the time.
    They did operate bac 111 but they went over 10 year ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Is that the best picture they could find?
    All yellow number plates in the left lane. Hardy illustrative of this Irish non-issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    An older car would like have a lower safety rating than a newer one. Indeed in 2009 Euro NCAP updated their safety testing regime to reflect newer expectations of safety (so a 4 star car from before that time isn't as good as a post 2009 4 star car...): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_NCAP#History_and_activities

    Also, if you notice the RSA's recent drive from the papers, they seem to want to address non motirist road fatalities i.e. pedestrians and cyclists. Newer cars are addressing their safety like the Volvo jeep et al. with auomatic braking, and Citroen C6 with pedestrian airbags

    I would suspect that the original journalists use of the phrase around mechanical failures might not be respecting the full intent of the idea.

    Also, don't airbags have a finite lifespan?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,624 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    There really isn't any statistical justification for that statement from the RSA. The last time they had the balls to publish the numbers, only 0.7% of fatal accidents were attributable to the condition of the vehicle.

    Despite this, they went ahead and made annual testing mandatory for 10 year old cars and now refuse to pass tyres that don't have the 'E' mark, clearly the SIMI folk are effectively lobbyists.

    I'm all for making people align their headlights properly and having decent brakes but at the end of the day it's one or more of inappropriate speed, inexperience and drink that is the underlying cause of most accidents.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    The Indo article used the term 'old bangers' and then didn't give any details whatsoever. Could have been referring to out of date sausages I suppose.

    I'm showing my age here, but when I was growing up, Hillman Hunters held together with string were a common enough sight. I think the NCT has taken care of a lot of the less roadworthy cars as I don't see things like that anymore. However, I still see cars puffing out plenty of smoke from time to time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    i suppose newer cars are more likely to have abs and selection of airbags

    most cars from 1998 onwards have these, its all BS, as I said before they all want us driving 1l little cube electric cars and then can say to the world, look what we have achived on our litle island....yeah they can F**k right off with that attitude.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭flutered


    people are saying the the older cars are dangerous, are they also saying that the nct is irevellant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    most cars from 1998 onwards have these, its all BS, as I said before they all want us driving 1l little cube electric cars and then can say to the world, look what we have achived on our litle island....yeah they can F**k right off with that attitude.

    They don't really. My 07 berlingos has 1airbag and no abs.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭mikofo


    anything over 6 months perhaps


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,624 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    They don't really. My 07 berlingos has 1airbag and no abs.

    Even relatively cheap cars have had ABS for some time now, an example being the original Fiat Bravo, introduced here in 95 with ABS as standard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭SeanW


    The reason people see red when RSA people talk sh**e, is because loose lips from such quarters usually preceed further regulations imposed on motorists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,064 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    SeanW wrote: »
    The reason people see red when RSA people talk sh**e, is because loose lips from such quarters usually preceed further regulations imposed on motorists.

    Worse.
    In Ireland 'regulations' invariably means extra costs.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Gurgle wrote: »
    Worse.
    In Ireland 'regulations' invariably means extra costs.

    What can they realistically do though?
    You've the NCT every year as it is


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Yesterday I was following a 03 Avensis with 3 wheels wobbling / vibrating (i kid you not) on their axles. I jumped out to find an African woman, man and child in the car. I warned them the the wheel bolts could be loose but I wonder if the bearings were completely knackered. How people dont notice these things is beyond me. The car must surely having been vibrating like grannys old washing machine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,312 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    Yesterday I was following a 03 Avensis with 3 wheels wobbling / vibrating (i kid you not) on their axles. I jumped out to find an African woman, man and child in the car. I warned them the the wheel bolts could be loose but I wonder if the bearings were completely knackered. How people dont notice these things is beyond me. The car must surely having been vibrating like grannys old washing machine.
    Are you sure it wasn't just badly fitted hub caps?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Gurgle wrote: »
    Strangely enough, the 'Statistics' section of the RSA website has no info on accidents caused by mechanical faults on 'old' cars.

    ...but it does have this, on this page: http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Crash%20Stats/Road_Collision_fact_book_2010.pdf

    ...91% of accidents are 'driver error' (page 23)
    ...61% were caused by 'going to wrong side of road'...(page 25)
    ...only 17% were caused by 'Exceeded Safe Speed'....(page 25). Note, this is a subtle obfuscation by RSA to make you think this was people breaking the legal speed limit. It's not. I know, 'cos I wrote and asked them :) the phrased 'exceeded safe speed' includes both (obviously) where the speed limit was exceeded, but importantly adds to that any accident where the speed limit was NOT broken, but the accident was attributed to going too fast (for the conditions/driver/etc). So they don't actually tell you the true figure for breaking the speed limit in the statistics. You and I and the dog in the street know why - 'cos it's BS.

    And you're right about nothing in the 2010 figures about mechanical contribution to accidents.

    The nearest I can find is the 2009 book, where under "Table 17: Fatal and Injury Collisions Classified by Possible Contributory Factor Where Specified" and there is shows a scant 0.2% of accidents (i.e., non fatal, and 8 injured).

    You can be damn sure that if mechancials had any meaningful contribution, they'd be rubbing our noses in it.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    More than half of all cars on the road are now at least eight years old and are more likely to suffer mechanical problems

    Well they can speak for themselves, I'll keep driving my old jalopies about, no newer stuff here thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    keithob wrote: »
    this is complete and utter sh1te ... check out whom the the directors are and who has pull in the rsa....

    all connected to the motor industry......

    All? I just looked at their bios and one has a tenuous link. What have you been smoking?


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